Cheating

[All_Is_Great]

Cheating in games with codes built in? Fine by me. I always unlock all Rock band songs because I cba to play through them one by one.

 

But things like botting, or modding an xbox to give an upper hand against others unfairly? I don't think it's right.

[Alg]

That's the difference between Runescape and any other game though. In Runescape, the bulk of the game is the grind, while in other games there's actual entertainment value. Botting or buying coins in 'Scape bypasses the boring grindy bits, and that's why people tend to look at it better than, say, making yourself unbeatable in a Madden game, or using an auto aim for Team Fortress 2. You're not hurting anyone unless your superior bot reflexes are better at getting whatever spawn it is you're camping, while in any other game, you're ruining the fun for pretty much everyone else/The other team. You get the same effect out of playing against someone with a significant gap in skill between you.

 

Botting's more like the Rock Band example, you unlock all the songs so that you don't have to play through the ones you hate several times each.

[PoorLepRecon]

Cheating in a single player game is harmless. I see no problem with it and sometimes it can make games more fun. When developers include cheats into a game, they are doing it so that they player can take a less serious approach or more fun run through the game.

 

The problem with cheating is when it involves more than 1 person. If you have to cheat in a multiplayer game, then that ruins the fun for everyone.

[Danqazmlp]

That's the difference between Runescape and any other game though. In Runescape, the bulk of the game is the grind, while in other games there's actual entertainment value. Botting or buying coins in 'Scape bypasses the boring grindy bits, and that's why people tend to look at it better than, say, making yourself unbeatable in a Madden game, or using an auto aim for Team Fortress 2. You're not hurting anyone unless your superior bot reflexes are better at getting whatever spawn it is you're camping, while in any other game, you're ruining the fun for pretty much everyone else/The other team. You get the same effect out of playing against someone with a significant gap in skill between you.

 

Botting's more like the Rock Band example, you unlock all the songs so that you don't have to play through the ones you hate several times each.

 

 

This is where it all really comes down to personal opinion and, morals/ethics.

 

Some, such as me will say that it is still a competitive game and that cheating is still cheating so shouldn't be done, even though people aren't immediately directly effected.

 

Others will say that because so few are effected, it is basically not harming anybody and skipping a part of the game that isn't fun.

 

 

Edit: To Ring: Editing somebodies argument isn't really a good way to convey an argument at all. Online games are often played as a challenge as the main enemies are players who offer a much greater challenge than AI. Having those other players cheats will ruin the game for them. In Runescape's case, some players find entertainment in having rare items or getting higher on highscores. It is after all, a high fantasy MMO. The aim is to be the hero. If everybody can be the best hero with no effort, it spoils the adventure of the game. When I play Baldur's gate, the adventure of gaining rare items and leveling up is what makes the game for me, not actually being those levels. The same translates to runescape for many players.

[HexiledRazz]

I'm gonna' add to this topic, but it's going to mostly be about single player game cheating. As multiplayer cheating has already been debated on both this topic and rather harshly on it's predecessor.

 

Under certain circumstances, it really waters down the experience of certain games(At least for me, it does).

 

I enjoy certain aspects of every game i play. And other aspects... Not so much.

 

Take Minecraft for an example. I have two worlds that i play on: One that i can use any cheats i want and have the difficulty set to peaceful, and another that i have the difficulty set to normal, and don't use any cheats on it, with a few exceptions. I've only INVedited in myself one of each diamond tool with nearly unlimited uses. As constantly making stone tools is more annoying then it is challenging. And I'll use a cartographer, but that's more so just so i can have a map of my world rather then to cheat.

 

I hardly ever play on the one that i allow myself to cheat on. Because there really isn't any work involved in building something.

 

Say i wanted to build a giant tower out of gravel and sandstone. With my cheating world, i can instantly start building the tower as i have already hacked in everything i need. However, on my non-cheating world, i have to hunt around underground for veins of gravel, and collect them. And on top of that, i have to turn beaches and deserts upside down to get enough sand to create the sandstone i need.

 

The tower i built on my cheating world took me three hours, and the gratification i receive after completing it is about as fulfilling as eating my own snot(Catch the reference).

 

However, the tower i built on my creative world took me a week of playing a healthy amount every day, and once i finish my tower I'm so proud that when ever i talk to my friends they have to tell me to shut up about it.

 

For Minecraft, it's a little obvious that cheats can water down the experience for people. Unless you're someone who just enjoys to build endlessly. Then possibly just giving yourself all the materials is viable if you won't lose interest. I however, enjoy gathering my stock of materials.

 

 

Another cheating instance i've experienced is Pokemon.

 

Around last year, i finally started training Pokemon using all of the hidden numbers to my advantage. Natures, EVs, IVs, ect. I would spend hours trying to find Ditto with good IVs and natures to breed with. And after that, i would try and breed the perfect pokemon, use breeding parents to get them the perfect moves, and EV training to get them the perfect stats. Then i would trade them over to my diamond version to level them up via hacked rare candies. This amount of cheating didn't water down the experience for me at all. Because it was either going to be this, or grind a pokemon to level 100 for three hours at a training spot. Which i wasn't about to do.

 

However, a few months ago i discovered something that, at the time seemed amazing: Pokesav.

 

Basically what Pokesav is, it's a program where you can edit any aspect of your saved game. Including Pokemon down to all of their hidden numbers. And with enough research, i could make the pokemon basically look 100% legit.

 

So, i did this and pokesaved a few good pokemon. Of course they had pure stat advantages over my old ones that i raised legitly. Because all of their numbers were perfect.

 

...But there was one problem with this: I quickly got bored of the game and stopped playing it. Hell, i didn't even finish SoulSilver and catch all the legendaries until months later. I still don't think i've caught mewtwo.

 

So i've decided that i need to stop using Pokesav and just train and raise pokemon normally. I don't even do any competitive battling, so perfect stats mean very little to me. I just enjoyed breeding, raising, and training pokemon. But i just took a shortcut and started hacking them in for no benefit other then flawless stats.

 

 

Lastly there's GTA.

 

Realisticly, since the cheats are freggin' programed into the game, i think they're meant to be used.

 

I've played though GTA games without cheats, and once I'm finished, one of the only fun things left to do it go on killing rampages with all the best weapons, or fly to the sky limit with a helicopter, jump out, and dive bomb into a sidewalk without a parachute(Trust me, you should try this. I find it hilarious).

 

My conclusion/tl;dr summary:

 

Cheating in any single player game(Meaning, as long as you don't get an advantage over other players) is viable IF, it doesn't water down your experience and interest in the game.

[Nadril]

I do think that the amount of people who "cheat" or "bot" in MMOs is a testament to how boring leveling in them can be. Not to say it's justifiable at all but I know why people do it.

 

 

I have used a bot once before, in Aion. It was a free bot (trust me I wouldn't pay for that [cabbage]). The reason why I did it was I got bored of the game around 42-43 and botted my way to 50 so I could sell the account. And hey, NCSoft did jack [cabbage] about it.

 

 

So yeah I do kind of understand. Like I said I've never actually played something I botted or "cheated" in because if I don't have fun leveling I don't want to play the game. For those people who would rather just play the real game (like it is most of the time)? Whatever. I honestly don't really care. I've played games where botting was almost acceptable (Lineage II) and it really was just how the game worked. Without bots the game's economy actually would have been [bleep]ed due to a ridiculously low drop rate for items.

[doomy]

Cheat all you want offline, nobody will care. I guess some will care if its achievement whoring but seriously achievements mean nothing anyway. Online is a different story.

 

My friend bots in runescape which I wouldn't do (not like I'd play that game anyway) but I don't see it being such a big deal as an aimbot/wallhack in fps or map hack in rts.

[The Runar]

I very rarely cheat in any game. In multiplayer games never.

 

In singleplayer games I sometimes cheat. Usually it's just experimenting, for example I could make the character a slow-moving, but almost immortal "tank" and see how the game changes. I don't know if you could really call it "cheating" though, it's just a way for me to make the game more fun.

[demby123]

I really don't care if someone cheats in multiplayer, as it provides more of a challenge to me in most situations. I only have a problem when cheaters make themselves impossible to defeat. I've dealt tons of cheaters when I used to play Syphonfilter: Dark Mirror/Logan's Shadow/Combat Ops, and although I'm alright with people using cheats to do ridiculous things like Autoaiming headshots/firing fully automatic grenade launchers or rocket launchers/eliminating weapon recoil/Teleporting/Speed hacking, but when they start using unlimited health and Spawn killing hacks, that's when I draw the line.

 

TL;DR: don't care about cheating against me personally, just don't run around with immortality.

[Poppet]

Cheating is the use of some "Third Party Object" in order to do something unique that can't be done without it or speed something up.

 

But what defines Glitching from cheating?

 

 

It's in the game and doesn't require a third party to achieve it and can at times be used by everyone.

 

 

In a competitive TF2 setting I've seen many teams use a glitch Major glitch with Spies where they would buy and use Unusual Hats in order to counter spies because they are unable replicate the effect.

 

It's considered perfectly legal to do that in the league.

[LinkOlaran]

I guess glitching in that case is equivalent to 'emergent gameplay' or whatever it's called, lol.

 

In addition to glitching, what are your guys' thoughts on using walkthroughs, guides, etc? Is this considered cheating?

 

For me, it really depends on the situation. With games with a storyline to it (Rune Factory, etc), I refuse to read a walkthrough (although I usually end up getting spoilered by idiots on other forums anyway when I need to find an answer for a question). I may in that case use a weapons guide or something similar to have a list of materials I need to gather to make it.

 

For something like... Super Mario Galaxy (2), I might read a guide if I get stuck somewhere, but generally I rely on my own ingenuity to get through (ie, die until I don't die anymore). For finding all the stars, or secrets, etc... I'll do my best to find everything myself, and then I'll read a guide to get the last couple.

 

 

Basically, it boils down to this: I'll use lists of things to get through, but I generally avoid any and all full walkthroughs until I beat the entire game myself, unless I get into a situation that I just can't work my way out of. I always make an attempt to solve my problem myself, then I'll rely on a guide.

 

RS is a different story sometimes. For quests, sometimes I use guides, sometimes I don't. I used to always use them, but quests are far more fun if you don't use them, in my opinion. Doing the last two Elemental Workshop quests with no guide (but some encouragement and aid from a few cc goers and a friend) was difficult, but enjoyable.

[Alg]

Nothing against walkthroughs, personally. If a puzzle is really hard, it's better to use that than to pull your hair out for an hour. The next one might be easier or more fun. Say, in the Water Temple of any given Zelda game. You could get lost and confused, or you could proceed to solve it and have fun in the next dungeon.

[foursideking]

Walkthroughs/guides are only truly good if you learn to not be dependant of them. After all, being too dependant of guides eventually leads to you focusing on them rather than the interesting parts of the game itself.

[Youmu]

I only use cheats on a game after I'm done with it, and even then it's sometimes too much of a bother for me (like rock candy in Earthbound).

 

To me cheating is fine as long as it doesn't affect other people. In fact, in games where the developers deliberately put cheat codes in, I strongly suggest at least trying it, as it can really make the gameplay a lot more diverse and even more fun than it used to be.

 

However if you're cheating or hacking online, I pity you for having no life. Racing games have like 1 second records online thanks to hackers, probably the biggest example I can give.

[Alg]

However if you're cheating or hacking online, I pity you for having no life. Racing games have like 1 second records online thanks to hackers, probably the biggest example I can give.

Tales of Vesperia has a leaderboard feature. The top ten or so ranks on time it took to clear the game is 0 seconds. That's right, with enough practice, YOU TOO could finish a 40 hour JRPG instantly!

Similarly, the top scores for the arena in that game are less than 1 second each, all with the same character. Her attack animations are all longer than that, and it takes the enemies longer to spawn.

[mcneilp]

As others have said, cheating online I don't agree with but in single player GTA or something, it makes no difference as it is only AI and the computer you've gained the advantage over. The games I used cheats on most was probably the GTA series but I never used them to further the story or whatever. For example, I'd cheat spawn a tank or a weapons set and go on a massive rampage and when I died, I'd either turn it off or re-load my game.

 

Using walkthroughs doesn't bother me though I'm not a particularly big fan of them. The only thing I can think of using an online guide for was a puzzle (or two, actually) in Assassins Creed II which was driving me daft.