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Is anyone else just completely disappointed with everyone?


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I really ignored all of it really, i never had time to read threads with many pages and long heated arguments so i never got involved

 

I stick to H&A and Questionairs

 

Still, seeing bw banned was kinda sad.

 

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The only real way to solve the ability for mods to abuse their power is to require a community vote on a ban. Mods can still delete posts and put those posts as evidence in a specific thread on whether the community thinks a player should be banned or not. They could even hold the players ability to post until a verdict from the community is decided in extreme cases. All the spammers, trolls and lurers will almost certainly unanimously get ousted by the community, people who the majority of the community feel did not break a rule (based on the evidence the mod team will present in the thread) can choose to keep them. Since this is a "community" forum I see no reason why a system like this cant be implemented.

 

If someone is popular they can avoid punishment

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I'm gonna be honest, I'm not sad to see some people go. If they want to go and make their own community, more power to them, but keep the hate and bad attitudes out of tip.it please. I love tip.it, in my mind, tip.it is synonymous with Runescape, and I couldn't enjoy one without the other. So seeing the disruptive, mean-spirited players storm off (however "respected" they may be) it a real breath of fresh air for me.

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The only real way to solve the ability for mods to abuse their power is to require a community vote on a ban. Mods can still delete posts and put those posts as evidence in a specific thread on whether the community thinks a player should be banned or not. They could even hold the players ability to post until a verdict from the community is decided in extreme cases. All the spammers, trolls and lurers will almost certainly unanimously get ousted by the community, people who the majority of the community feel did not break a rule (based on the evidence the mod team will present in the thread) can choose to keep them. Since this is a "community" forum I see no reason why a system like this cant be implemented.

 

Having in the past been involved with forum administration a couple of times for things unrelated to Runescape, I recognize that this will sound very unappealing to _any_ forum administration team. Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea.

 

Obviously it would be a complex situation that would require a lot of new policies to deal with. As just one example, TIF must enforce Jagex rules to maintain its fansite status, yet many posters here at TIF seem to have a very strong desire to tell others about their in-game rulebreaking (?). So policies would have to be carefully crafted, or things like this could result in a clash where sympathetic forum members know that someone broke the rules, yet vote that they didn't in order to achieve a jury nullification.

 

I doubt this concept will get much traction, but so long as it was implemented carefully to avoid situations like the above, I think it would be a very wise move.

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The only real way to solve the ability for mods to abuse their power is to require a community vote on a ban. Mods can still delete posts and put those posts as evidence in a specific thread on whether the community thinks a player should be banned or not. They could even hold the players ability to post until a verdict from the community is decided in extreme cases. All the spammers, trolls and lurers will almost certainly unanimously get ousted by the community, people who the majority of the community feel did not break a rule (based on the evidence the mod team will present in the thread) can choose to keep them. Since this is a "community" forum I see no reason why a system like this cant be implemented.

Thumbs up.

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If we have an open ruled forum with no rules, We could not be affiliated with Jagex... iv been here since 05, i think i have a right to voice an opinion... Now although i do not know what has kicked off recently.

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What's to stop people from keeping their friends in though? Or keeping their enemies out? The last thing we need is to turn bans into a popularity contest.

 

Because its better then getting banned on a whim because say a mod doesnt like you. This offers at least some protection

True, though having seen the popularity contest thing happen elsewhere, I'm a bit skeptical of it. Each community's a bit different, though, for some it might be more authoritarian, for others it might be more libertarian, but ultimately the system that they end up using here should be the one that most benefits Tip.It's community.

 

If I knew a specific system that would work, I'd have posted that :razz: Common sense rules should be the way to go; If you're a flaming, trolling douchebag that has never contributed to any thread, you probably deserve the banhammer.

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Do we have a good ban appeal system though? In case some rule breakers want to mend their ways?

Ban appeals are reviewed by the entire administrative and super moderator teams. There are usually 8-10 people involved in ban appeals and we go by majority vote.

 

I got a 2 week ban for telling someone that his friend scammed 40b lol

 

The first one is too vague for me to address directly, but this is explicitly against the rules:

 

1.5 - Naming Names

 

  • Naming people or their characters in a negative light is not permitted. That person is not able to defend themselves or their actions and what seems like an inappropriate action (which can often be a simple misunderstanding) can lead to a negative reaction against that person. If you have been scammed or have heard of someone who was scammed, you must not name names. The reason for this is that many people have posted saying "this person scammed me" when they really did not! The truth is we do not know if the person you say "scammed" you, really scammed you or not. Spreading this around the forums would give a bad reputation to someone who may not even deserve it! If you have any questions, feel free to contact a Tip.It Moderator or Administrator.

 

And also keep in mind that we never issue bans without warnings first (except porn, scamming, spambots, etc.). The typical situation goes something like this:

 

Warning > warning > warning > 3 day ban > 1 week ban > 2 week ban > 1 month ban > (3 month ban) > perm ban

 

So anyone who is banned for any amount of time has already received multiple warnings and reminders to reread the rules. We always welcome calm and polite criticism of our rules by means of PMing an admin privately or creating a thread in Forum Updates & Suggestions to say, "I think this rule isn't working and here is a possible solution." But imo explicitly violating the rules and complaining about being banned for it doesn't hold much weight. But of course if someone feels the ban was undeserved or too harsh, etc. they are ALWAYS welcome to submit an appeal, which is read and judged by ~10 people.

 

If we have an open ruled forum with no rules, We could not be affiliated with Jagex... iv been here since 05, i think i have a right to voice an opinion... Now although i do not know what has kicked off recently.

 

We have always been a forum with rules, way before Jagex started supporting fan sites. We don't have rules because Jagex wants us to; we have rules because we believe that they are necessary to maintain a positive, friendly and safe environment.

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I don't think a community-based ban system is a good idea, especially given the (relatively) low average age on these boards. A system of responsible moderators and admins is probably the best option, but they need to communicate with the board, and if necessary, explain why certain punishments were handed out. More importantly, they should be able to admit when they've made mistakes, and take actions to correct them.

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Well my thanks, it is your community and environment iv been here for 5 years for. I wasn't getting at you and choice to do things, I was mainly concerned about what has happened recently to cause uproar in a usually peaceful forum (providing noone feeds the trolls)

 

EDIT

Plus i think that a community based ban system is a bad idea... There would be soooo many false bans, the same as im guessing there is alot of false reports?

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If you don't try and cause some problems on tip.it, you won't have some. There are some rules you can live with, if you can't, then you probably are trying to cause some problems. Not everything might seem pleasant for just you, whoever you are, but it shouldn't be that big deal at any point.

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AFAIAC, it all boils down to a lack of social aptitude. You may have the best, most efficient training methods known to man - but if you are condescending and socially inept, it wont get you squat.

 

Id wager todays theatrics were just a stunt to drive a wedge into the community here. The new efficiency forums were already in place and the clown car was packed to drive today. There was an awful lot of goading & button-pushing going on today and none of it was heat of the moment sort of stuff. Some people will go and some will stay.

 

I think those guys could put up a good informative site on efficient methods, but I dont think any of them have the social skills to succeed at it in an interactive medium (i.e. a forum). FWIW.

 

Which explains why they're able to form a nice community amongst themselves. Right.

 

What I'm getting from all this:

 

The main site needs updating since it appears outdated compared to what's in - or what was in - AOW.

Some sort of (volunteer based or dedicated?) check for H&A.

The moving around of certain threads when they could be left alone to die gives off RSOF vibes.

Retired players are out of touch with newer things in the game and some of them hold high ranks in here. That's a questionable point.

Folk need to learn manners. On both sides. Leaders/admins/mods mustn't ever sink to insults since they hold the high ground and are held by unseen high standards. (When the hell did that happen?)

 

And delicious internet drama. Have some Lackadaisy cats.

 

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I like and support this.

 

Not that I plan to leave tipit, but I'm definitely going to visit that site for information...

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What the hell happened while i was playing Hat Fortress :mellow:

 

I love TIF, its a shame to see people getting broken/beaten up like this :thumbdown:

I HATE efficiency but i still like listening to people talk about it. Was it really that much of a problem?

Cmon guys cant you do better than this :unsure:

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What the hell happened while i was playing Hat Fortress :mellow:

 

I love TIF, its a shame to see people getting broken/beaten up like this :thumbdown:

I HATE efficiency but i still like listening to people talk about it. Was it really that much of a problem?

Cmon guys cant you do better than this :unsure:

 

That wasn't the problem. Part of it was when some of them (not all) would bash other people for saying anything OTHER than the absolute most efficient (even though not everyone wants that option). The other part was when some of them had ideas that were both reasonable and unreasonable, and debates started happening with the admins, and it just went downhill from there.

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I don't see why all the...(am I allowed to say efficiency troll anymore?) disagreeable people just hop on over to another fansite and give advice there? Or just make their own website where they could have any ridiculous way of banning people that they wanted.

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I don't see why all the...(am I allowed to say efficiency troll anymore?) disagreeable people just hop on over to another fansite and give advice there? Or just make their own website where they could have any ridiculous way of banning people that they wanted.

 

That's what they're doing. It's moreso that some Staff don't want them to go, and a lot of members don't either. Disregarding them being assets, they're also good people. (Mostly)

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This whole problem has nothing to do with the efficiency debate. This is all to do with the attitudes presented on both sides, as well as personal grudges against certain others.

 

My say is that in future debates and discussions and so forth, these kinds of things really needs to be toned down a lot more. And I really do mean a lot.

 

As for the anti-efficiency trolls, the best solution is to not feed the troll.

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This is all to do with the attitudes presented on both sides, as well as personal grudges against certain others.

 

Attitudes on both sides? No way. All the Admins did was take out their banhammer and pwn some noobs. It seems to me that they had a problem with what the other side was saying, and didn't really try to figure out a way to get past it.

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This is all to do with the attitudes presented on both sides, as well as personal grudges against certain others.

 

Attitudes on both sides? No way. All the Admins did was take out their banhammer and pwn some noobs. It seems to me that they had a problem with what the other side was saying, and didn't really try to figure out a way to get past it.

It's not that simple.

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Attitudes on both sides? No way. All the Admins did was take out their banhammer and pwn some noobs. It seems to me that they had a problem with what the other side was saying, and didn't really try to figure out a way to get past it.

 

Both 'sides' have admitted to making mistakes. If you choose to ignore that, that's your issue, but let's not go spreading around any more poor information. My poor nerves can't take much more of this.

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Attitudes on both sides? No way. All the Admins did was take out their banhammer and pwn some noobs. It seems to me that they had a problem with what the other side was saying, and didn't really try to figure out a way to get past it.

Huh?

 

At last I checked the users made the mistake of trolling and pushing the rules to the breaking point while the moderators haven't consistently moderated the board well enough.

 

Both sides have made their mistakes.

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What's to stop people from keeping their friends in though? Or keeping their enemies out? The last thing we need is to turn bans into a popularity contest.

 

Because its better then getting banned on a whim because say a mod doesnt like you. This offers at least some protection

You do know that mods themselves don't have the ability to ban....it's up to an administrator to review each case as it comes and deal with it themselves. Even before then, there is a large pile of regulatory work to sift through before it happens, and if any of you have felt that rushed decisions were made, we have failed yall in that regard. But understand that due process takes time, and since none of us are actually professionally paid to handle these things, many times collaboration on issues is tough because we're not on at the same time, and decisions are left to just a handful of people. Even then, it's pretty much impossible for even paid mods to solve every possible problem.

 

In any case there were in fact mistakes made but I don't think it is fair to drag the entire mod team into this...

 

All moderators on all message boards more or less have the same amount of power. It is the ability to to handle the responsibility of such that keeps things sane, rather than just merely limiting it. Mods are put through a bunch of training before they let them loose, so for the most part we have done what we can for them, and if they have performed to standard before this incident, then you could hardly expect us to be able to predict when such a huge blunder occurs.

 

As of now, if you left that kind of responsibility to everybody, you'd be increasing the chances of it being misused, instead of what you think would be an ideal world. In addition to that, it seems like a lot of users prefer to post joke images instead of actually report posts...

 

Also, the time it would take to resolve incidents would be extended, and it would require more regulation, and every time something goes wrong (perhaps something like this), it would be doubled minimum! I doubt Jagex would even bother with a site that disorganized and unpredictable (as much as that would be hypocritical, of course :wink: ).

 

I imagine that many users must enjoy both complaining about how there isn't enough being done about trolls, yet at the same time when something like this happens it is simply too far. Lord knows I try to look into what I can, but every day it is always another borderline case and there's the decision to either remove them from sight and risk backlash from people who accuse of censorship, or to just let their posts linger in the public view and be told that it was a mistake to let other people see it.

 

While we deal with this, the problem continues on display, and we have the option of either locking it for review, or pulling it away for review, or letting it fester like an open sore, and as you can see, none of those options did anything for the situation in hindsight.

 

If you had issues with us BEFORE the incident, we always say "if you have any questions feel free to PM any of us" and I'm always pulling out the rulebook when I hand out warnings and such so that I have the grounds for it, but nobody ever actually tries talking to us or anything except to perhaps throw more insults.

 

It sounds dumb and pony-ish but please share your feelings if you need to!

 

EDIT: did somebody say discussing bans in public?

 

I suppose we could have some sort of ban log for notable offenders but that's just me talking and I don't know if anybody actually wants that

 

I think it would alienate some people and drive them to further raeg

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I personally think that trolling TIF with spam and porn wasn't the best idea, and those users should remain banned.

 

I mean, post those things as a "parting shot", why couldn't just take the high road? Same to the mods on the issue of removing the guide, obviously the person was doing it out of spite, so just let him be happy and should've removed it.

 

Anyways, kinda hard to say those things especially considering hindsight is always 20/20. So whatever the mods do now, just hope they make sure it'll be... better.

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