Banning the burqa

[obfuscator]

 

And? So what? Whats the difference? Why can't someone with ill intent now just slip on a burqa just like they slip on a ski mask currently?

 

And also, what is the scenario? Describe a situation that will now be prevented due to the burqa. What? Like...a robber walks from his home to a bank with a burqa on, cleverly blending in with the crowd. Then he goes in and robs a bank. And?? So what? Weres his getaway car? Why is this situation more dangerous than if the person had just run into the bank from a van, with a ski mask on?

 

All you are doing is saying "Its a threat, you can't tell who they are" Lots of stuff sounds dangerous if you say vague stuff like this. Public internet access is a security threat because it gives anyone the ability to hack into confidential files or spread viruses. It's a threat! Oh no! Pockets are a threat too. I can walk the whole way up to a bank teller without them knowing I have a gun. If pockets were banned, I would have to carry my gun.

 

They could, that's the point. They could wear one, walk casually into a store, spend ten minutes looking for security cameras, and waiting for other customers to leave. You can't realistically do that wearing a ski mask or pantyhose.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

And? So what? Whats the difference? Why can't someone with ill intent now just slip on a burqa just like they slip on a ski mask currently?

 

And also, what is the scenario? Describe a situation that will now be prevented due to the burqa. What? Like...a robber walks from his home to a bank with a burqa on, cleverly blending in with the crowd. Then he goes in and robs a bank. And?? So what? Weres his getaway car? Why is this situation more dangerous than if the person had just run into the bank from a van, with a ski mask on?

 

All you are doing is saying "Its a threat, you can't tell who they are" Lots of stuff sounds dangerous if you say vague stuff like this. Public internet access is a security threat because it gives anyone the ability to hack into confidential files or spread viruses. It's a threat! Oh no! Pockets are a threat too. I can walk the whole way up to a bank teller without them knowing I have a gun. If pockets were banned, I would have to carry my gun.

 

They could, that's the point. They could wear one, walk casually into a store, spend ten minutes looking for security cameras, and waiting for other customers to leave. You can't realistically do that wearing a ski mask or pantyhose.

 

So what? They can stand around for 10 minutes. What advantage does this give someone when robbing a bank or store? Many things that are not banned also give advantages when robbing a place. Wearing a jacket is beneficial to robbers. Should we outlaw those?

[obfuscator]

 

 

So what? They can stand around for 10 minutes. What advantage does this give someone when robbing a bank or store? Many things that are not banned also give advantages when robbing a place. Wearing a jacket is beneficial to robbers. Should we outlaw those?

 

I clearly stated what advantage being disguised and unquestioned gives before. The same thing in a bank - they can stand around, analyze the situation, look for cameras, and plan, all without their face being visible. A jacket is not beneficial to robbers to the extent an unquestioned face covering is.

 

You do realize I don't even support banning the burqa, right?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

So what? They can stand around for 10 minutes. What advantage does this give someone when robbing a bank or store? Many things that are not banned also give advantages when robbing a place. Wearing a jacket is beneficial to robbers. Should we outlaw those?

 

I clearly stated what advantage being disguised and unquestioned gives before. The same thing in a bank - they can stand around, analyze the situation, look for cameras, and plan, all without their face being visible. A jacket is not beneficial to robbers to the extent an unquestioned face covering is.

 

You do realize I don't even support banning the burqa, right?

 

A jacket isn't as beneficial to a robber? How is he even going to rob the place if he doesn't have a place to conceal his weapon? If he has a jacket he can hide the gun in his jacket and look around, analyze the situation, look for cameras, and plan, all without the gun being visible.

 

And the fact that you don't support it shows, because you can't make a good case for it.

[obfuscator]

 

 

A jacket isn't as beneficial to a robber? How is he even going to rob the place if he doesn't have a place to conceal his weapon? If he has a jacket he can hide the gun in his jacket and look around, analyze the situation, look for cameras, and plan, all without the gun being visible.

 

And the fact that you don't support it shows, because you can't make a good case for it.

 

I agree, there isn't a good case for banning it. But there isn't no case. Arguing that there is no possible security repercussion caused by allowing people to hide their face in public is asinine.

[OldJoe]

I think this topic appeard some months or a year or something ago... Anyways, haven't changed my opinion on it (IE i agree with it). Admittedly not many wear them.

 

What exactly is inherently dangerous about burqas that it is necessary to ban them?

 

Seems like racism to me

And when did Muslims become one ethnic group?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

A jacket isn't as beneficial to a robber? How is he even going to rob the place if he doesn't have a place to conceal his weapon? If he has a jacket he can hide the gun in his jacket and look around, analyze the situation, look for cameras, and plan, all without the gun being visible.

 

And the fact that you don't support it shows, because you can't make a good case for it.

 

I agree, there isn't a good case for banning it. But there isn't no case. Arguing that there is no possible security repercussion caused by allowing people to hide their face in public is asinine.

 

Nobody said it was a zero risk case. The point is that lots of stuff is a risk, and fear-mongering things into illegality is oppressive.

 

The risk case is a stupid argument. It's risky to have people own scissors for crying out loud.

 

And when did Muslims become one ethnic group?

 

It is funny that you are criticising him for calling anti-Islam things "racist", yet you think that "racism" applies to "ethnic groups". Saying something about an ethnic group isn't technically racist either.

[Ginger_Warrior]

keep putting those burkas on while letting your parents decide who you marry. just seems so pathetic and sad.

Are you talking about arranged marriage or forced marriage here?

 

Wait, can you even tell us the difference without looking at Wikipedia?

[obfuscator]

Actually, I know a few people who were quite happy with their arranged marriages. The media publishes the horror stories but not the ones that work out great.

[Faux]

keep putting those burkas on while letting your parents decide who you marry. just seems so pathetic and sad.

Are you talking about arranged marriage or forced marriage here?

 

Wait, can you even tell us the difference without looking at Wikipedia?

 

lol you mad?

 

Actually, I know a few people who were quite happy with their arranged marriages. The media publishes the horror stories but not the ones that work out great.

 

if i was taught my entire life that arranged marriage was the right thing to do, i'd probably think so too.

[Ginger_Warrior]

keep putting those burkas on while letting your parents decide who you marry. just seems so pathetic and sad.

Are you talking about arranged marriage or forced marriage here?

 

Wait, can you even tell us the difference without looking at Wikipedia?

 

lol you mad?

Nah bro. Not after Kuyt scored the penalty against Arsenal anyway.

 

Strange answer though.

[Faux]

if i was taught my entire life that arranged marriage was the wrong thing to do, i'd probably think so too.

 

if by 'taught' you mean to realize the value of independence and freedom to choose, to think or personal relationship experiences, maybe.

 

Strange answer though.

 

to what? i don't consider that thinly veiled insult as a question (pun intended)

[Ginger_Warrior]

Oh I see what you did there... ha... ha... yeah...

Strange answer though.

 

to what? i don't consider that thinly veiled insult as a question (pun intended)

keep putting those burkas on while letting your parents decide who you marry. just seems so pathetic and sad.

Are you talking about arranged marriage or forced marriage here?

Yep, looks like a question to me.

[Faux]

keep putting those burkas on while letting your parents decide who you marry. just seems so pathetic and sad.

Are you talking about arranged marriage or forced marriage here?

 

Wait, can you even tell us the difference without looking at Wikipedia?

 

i know you are what you are, but try not to play dumb if you can.

[Ginger_Warrior]

No go on, humour me... what am I exactly? A guy asking for clarification on your (apparently ignorant) statement?

 

Y'know I don't want to derail this thread any more so if you've nothing interesting to say I'm just gonna head off and cook tea for me and my housemates. Nice chat though.

[Faux]

if you can't ask a question without insulting someone, i think you're better off making tea and biscuits and discussing how interesting it was that the last football game you watched ended in a draw.

 

They obviously have their own reasons for doing what they do, if they didn't then they wouldn't do those things.

 

yeah, archaic culture. people used to burn "witches" at the stake too but we stopped doing it.

[Guy]

 

There has to be a distinction made between those women who voluntarily wear the burqa, and those people who are forced to do so. I couldn't say which is in the majority. That's a bit of an issue when making blanket-bans - you really need to know the majority.

I can't say much about the sitution in France, and indeed I believe it may be different, but in the middle east I think women are happy to wear at least a hijab (which is fine), and a burqa.

[Faux]

 

There has to be a distinction made between those women who voluntarily wear the burqa, and those people who are forced to do so. I couldn't say which is in the majority. That's a bit of an issue when making blanket-bans - you really need to know the majority.

I can't say much about the sitution in France, and indeed I believe it may be different, but in the middle east I think women are happy to wear at least a hijab (which is fine), and a burqa.

 

politically incorrect = troll?

 

you're talking about the middle east where they still have state executions of homosexuals and where women are considered criminals for being raped.

 

they are statistically more likely to end in divorce than anything else.

 

proving what? that people free to be in a relationship are also free to leave it?

[Faux]

proving that chosen marriages are no more likely to be successful than arranged marriages.

 

i'm not really arguing this point.

 

but to take another perspective at that, some countries are just not as friendly toward divorces. it's not as acceptable everywhere in the world due to cultural, legal, and economic reasons. just compare the divorce rates from the 1950s to current America.

[Quyneax]

Guys, it'd be much appreciated if you cooled things down a bit. There is no need to respond to a troll. If you ever find yourself calling someone a troll, that means you should have used the report button ;).

[Faux]

apparently i am.

 

this thread is asking for people's opinions on burqas and he calls me a troll for voicing mine. seriously?

 

funny that this is on the sticky too http://forum.tip.it/...erermoderrated/

[Will H]

Typical. Guys, tone it down. And Faux, do me a favour and either stop posting or start contributing to the thread. You just linked to a thread irrelevant to this one.

There has to be a distinction made between those women who voluntarily wear the burqa, and those people who are forced to do so. I couldn't say which is in the majority. That's a bit of an issue when making blanket-bans - you really need to know the majority.

I can't say much about the sitution in France, and indeed I believe it may be different, but in the middle east I think women are happy to wear at least a hijab (which is fine), and a burqa.

 

Although I'm not sure where the majority is either, I'm not sure how that really matters. The proportion of Muslim women who wear the Burqa is already a very small minority group already. If the ban means that a single Muslim family gives up on forcing their daughter to wear the Burqa, then it's worth it.

[sees_all1]

Somehow this reminds me in Brave New World when the Savage disrupts the Soma distribution to the Deltas...

You can see that the French are filled with the best of intentions for Women's Rights, public safety, etc. Maybe they are even a little menacing towards a culture they don't want to support or would rather bring down. But banning an article of clothing, like throwing soma out, is only going to upset the people they're trying to help.

[Range_This11]

The French just want to be French in France.

[Jaffy1]

I can't say much about the sitution in France, and indeed I believe it may be different, but in the middle east I think women are happy to wear at least a hijab (which is fine), and a burqa.

 

Although I am not an expert on woman's opinions on that in the middle east I do know that in (for example) Saudi Arabia it has been law for women to wear burqa's for many years. If they wouldn't properly cover themselves, the religious police known as the Mutaween. They are known to use a lot of violence and women are in danger of being imprisoned, beaten, flogged, or even beheaded. In a country like that fear makes women want to wear it if religious motives don't. The same goes for regions in Pakistan and Afghanistan that are ruled by the Taliban (with regard to the burqa).

 

To compare this with other Islamic countries, the Supreme Court of Malaysia prohibited public servants from covering their faces in 1994. Having been to Malaysia myself (although this is South East Asia) I noticed the vast majority of women wear the hijab, and I'd estimate less than 5% of the women I saw wore a niqab or burqa.

 

Considering that, is banning it truly ensuring these women cannot excercise their faith?