Mithril Dragons

[Riptide Mage]

Whatever, suit yourselves. I don't even play anymore so I guess you almighty pros know your stuff inside out *claps*

 

Your alog shows you played on the 19th of April.

[Quyneax]

Whatever, suit yourselves. I don't even play anymore so I guess you almighty pros know your stuff inside out *claps*

 

Your alog shows you played on the 19th of April.

1) You are way off-topic.

2) Many retired people still get their event items.

 

Please don't post replies like this, the topic is on mithril dragons. Not everbody is entirely up-to-date but there is no reason to discuss that. Only the content matters here.

[Riptide Mage]

Whatever, suit yourselves. I don't even play anymore so I guess you almighty pros know your stuff inside out *claps*

 

Your alog shows you played on the 19th of April.

1) You are way off-topic.

2) Many retired people still get their event items.

 

Please don't post replies like this, the topic is on mithril dragons. Not everbody is entirely up-to-date but there is no reason to discuss that. Only the content matters here.

 

cacmypant's posts in this thread are exactly the kind of posts that are not supposed to be made in the metagame forum, especially posts like:

 

Uh... ok then, so alknowledging the other two corners of the triangle is not allowed because you said so, awesome. I'm still pretty sure that going all-out with magic would be faster than all-out melee considering the dragon's primary weakness is...idk... magic? I was merely pointing out that even a lowly spell like slayer dart is good enough for the job, certainly not the 'best'.

 

When his opinion is disproved his response is to lie, also entirely against the point of fact based discussion in the metagame forum. His alog shows he has been quite active in both dungeoneering and slaying for over a month, including a mithril dragon task. The fact that cacmypant's posts haven't been removed from this metagame discussion is counterpoint to the entire reason this subforum exists.

[Quyneax]

I don't care how right you are LJ13, you should not take it up on this particular thread. You either report a post, provide evidence to disprove a point, or you ignore it.

 

Any replies on this matter will result in warnings, but you are free to discuss the matter over PM with anyone concerned.

[Aiel]

I think korasis is better then claws at miths.

[tuggernongy]

The OP asked for the best way, what you presented was not the best way.

 

 

+1

 

Thanks all most, Pere Grin in particular. Pwny and a couple food can keep up your health in bandos now, no karil necessary i assume? :) Also, isn't it ardy cape for the +stab att now?

[PereGrin]

The OP asked for the best way, what you presented was not the best way.

 

 

+1

 

Thanks all most, Pere Grin in particular. Pwny and a couple food can keep up your health in bandos now, no karil necessary i assume? :) Also, isn't it ardy cape for the +stab att now?

You don't even need a Unicorn. I did my last task with 5 rocktail, 2 prayer potions, and an extreme set. That was 5 miths. With soul split, you shouldn't need more then that even for the max task of 14(?) or so. You would probably need more prayer potions. You could take a T-bird/Tort/Yak to bring back all the mith bars if you wanted.

 

I also don't have Ardy hard or elite finished yet, so I use Fire Cape. But recent calculations I have seen seem to show that accuracy may yield a higher DPS on high defense targets than Strength bonus. I am not sure this applies to miths because of their Stab weakness. But Ardy cape and/or Onyx (i) should be fine. Either way, the tasks are so short it won't make more then a few seconds difference in either direction.

[Quyneax]

I think korasis is better then claws at miths.

Pretty sure, yes.

 

I also don't have Ardy hard or elite finished yet, so I use Fire Cape. But recent calculations I have seen seem to show that accuracy may yield a higher DPS on high defense targets than Strength bonus. I am not sure this applies to miths because of their Stab weakness. But Ardy cape and/or Onyx (i) should be fine. Either way, the tasks are so short it won't make more then a few seconds difference in either direction.

Rocktails are no good, they take up attack turns after all. Also onyx (i) is inferior to berserker (i). Ardy 3 is slightly better if you have 50% accuracy with it, otherwise use a fire cape.

[Zaaps1]

The OP asked for the best way, what you presented was not the best way.

 

 

+1

 

Thanks all most, Pere Grin in particular. Pwny and a couple food can keep up your health in bandos now, no karil necessary i assume? :) Also, isn't it ardy cape for the +stab att now?

 

I doubt you'll need the stab bonus. You're already so accurate that the strength bonus of the fire cape would turn better yields.

[Quyneax]

I would like to remind everyone that nobody did in the end post any data on the subject whatsoever :).

 

Rapier max hit (max str gear, turmoil, ovl): 656 at 4 ticks per hit. 98.4 per tick at 60% accuracy. From my experience that is reasonable.

 

Diamond bolts max hit (rigour, ovl): 470 (+10% for spec, which we shall put at 20% chance to happen for a total of 2% more damage) at 5 ticks per hit. 96 damage per tick at 100% accuracy.

 

Fire surge max hit (max gear): 537 at 5 ticks per hit. A surgebox could up that by 5% if you used nice round salvos of 5 casts to kill them, but in general I think arcane is more viable. 107 damage per tick at 100% accuracy.

 

Assuming melee is around 60% accurate, ranged would need to be over 100% accurate to be better than melee. Magic would need to be over 90% accurate. From what I hear, neither is feasible.

 

Should be noted that of these, ranged will provide most defence with magic a close second, as both will avoid all melee attacks, can pray ranged and tank magic. Melee will require constant soul split flashing.

 

Considering that melee is the cheapest as well as fastest way to kill mithril dragons, it's the clear choice.

[green9090]

So you're saying you want us to spend 15 minutes doing math about common sense to conclusively disprove trolls before we can begin to hope their posts will be deleted, but if we call them out for being obvious trolls before throwing some numbers together with guessed accuracy, OUR posts will be deleted instead?

 

FUN. I think I'll be staying out of this forum, thanks- my interest is not in using my time re-proving facts over and over again.

[Quyneax]

You do not seem to realize, green, that common sense can indeed be wrong. If you do not wish to post here, good luck.

[Sir_Squab]

You know, this is a bit off-topic, but I think we need a sticky for, like, generally proved things.

[PereGrin]

I think korasis is better then claws at miths.

Pretty sure, yes.

 

I also don't have Ardy hard or elite finished yet, so I use Fire Cape. But recent calculations I have seen seem to show that accuracy may yield a higher DPS on high defense targets than Strength bonus. I am not sure this applies to miths because of their Stab weakness. But Ardy cape and/or Onyx (i) should be fine. Either way, the tasks are so short it won't make more then a few seconds difference in either direction.

Rocktails are no good, they take up attack turns after all. Also onyx (i) is inferior to berserker (i). Ardy 3 is slightly better if you have 50% accuracy with it, otherwise use a fire cape.

Rocktail do not lose attack turns if you eat them between dragons. Also, I specifically referenced calculations that have not been finished yet that seem to show onyx (i) is better then zerker (i) on high defense targets. However, I haven't done the max stab defense roll of mith dragons yet, so I do not yet know if their defense is high enough for this. I specifically said that.

 

If the OP is interested in maybe doing some testing, that would be nice.

[Quyneax]

Eh I don't know of any sort of dps calc that says that +6 stab is ever better than +8 strength. Regardless of max defence roll you will not, ever, have higher dps with an onyx ring (i) UNLESS the defence bonus increases your defence so much that you have to brew significantly less.

 

As for the rocktails, yes they do stil lose attack turns. If you have spare time between dragons you should focus on reducing that to 0, not eating.

[theking628]

Hey quyneax

 

You're wrong.

 

Attack bonus trumps strength on high defense targets like graardor

 

I'd post the data and calculations but they aren't my property ;)

[Quyneax]

Hey quyneax

 

You're wrong.

 

Attack bonus trumps strength on high defense targets like graardor

 

I'd post the data and calculations but they aren't my property ;)

Let's be clear here - you're talking about EQUAL attack and strength bonusus, where the attack bonus would give you greater dps than the strength bonus if your opponent has sufficient defence? I'd like to see your theory on that then.

[theking628]

I'm saying that things like fighter hat, onyx i and ardy cape yield more dps than the respective strength boosting items for those slots on high defence targets, specifically bandos

 

I can't link you because I'm on a phone and im not posting the data because it's not mine, and I don't have permission

 

I'm sure you could find it or find someone who could link you to it

[Riptide Mage]

I'm saying that things like fighter hat, onyx i and ardy cape yield more dps than the respective strength boosting items for those slots on high defence targets, specifically bandos

 

I can't link you because I'm on a phone and im not posting the data because it's not mine, and I don't have permission

 

I'm sure you could find it or find someone who could link you to it

 

I think you're looking for: http://grimy.freeforums.org/the-bandos-project-t72.html

[Quyneax]

I'm saying that things like fighter hat, onyx i and ardy cape yield more dps than the respective strength boosting items for those slots on high defence targets, specifically bandos

 

I can't link you because I'm on a phone and im not posting the data because it's not mine, and I don't have permission

 

I'm sure you could find it or find someone who could link you to it

1) A fighter hat has more strength bonus than any helmet, so naturally it would give more dps than any other weapon if your accuracy is already low. This goes for the Ardougne cloak too.

2) I don't think those tests show that onyx ring (i) > berserker ring (i), in fact I'd be surprised, as they are using the formulas that predict that the berserker ring is superior.

 

All in all I think you just misread the topic a bit ;).

[Quyneax]

Sorry I misworded that, I meant to say offensive bonus. The rest of what I said is still valid.

[theking628]

If you do the accuracy calculations for high defense monsters, max attack bOnus beats max strength,

[Saradomin_Mage]

Way to keep spitting out the same thing again and again without listening to the critique.

 

Firstly Quy has stated that in cases of equivalent bonuses (ie +5 attack vs +5 strength) then the strength bonus will return greater DPS yields on any type of target.

However what you're arguing is stuff like:

 

- Fighter Hat > Neitz Helm

- Ardy 4 > Fire Cape

- Onyx i > Zerker i

 

Now, Fighter Hat has +5 attack bonus for melee stats, while Neitz only has +3 strength. Clearly in this case the OFFENSIVE bonus on Fighter Hat is higher, so by that fact the Fighter Hat would be better because it simply has 2 points more of offensive bonus, hence it would return a greater DPS yield. (I have not used a DPS calculator to verify this claim, though I am certain that the linked forum provides such a tool)

 

For the cape, you've got +5 attack vs +1 attack and +4 strength, so the Fire Cape is evidently better (since they are tied for offensive bonuses, but the Fire Cape enjoys 80% of its bonus being in the strength bonus)

 

Finally for the ring, I have no idea how you came to this conclusion and the very same forum you say the evidence comes from has its creator itself acknowledging that Zerker i is better than Onyx i in almost every conceivable location, EXCEPT for cases where you don't need strength bonus (ranging/mage) or when you need to hybrid (DKs).

 

You might want to read the guidelines again before posting here.

[theking628]

Do the math vs a 700 defense roll plz

[Saradomin_Mage]

The Ancient (who also happens to be from Grimy's forum), in his combat mechanic guide, has stated that attack and strength bonuses only give equal DPS increase at infinite defense.

So even at 700 defense, strength bonuses would outweigh equal attack bonuses.