Why doesn't Jagex incorporate this to stop bots?

[iamsomebody1]

Why can't Jagex do something like WoW does

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29

 

Something like that would probably stop alot of botters and then we won't have so many zombies everywhere ruining the game experience for everyone.

[Cheat]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

[Miner_Guy]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

 

Ye but im not being mean but your just one person they probably ruin the experience of 2/3 of the valid runescape population.

[Quyneax]

Maybe because Jagex wants to keep the game browser-based and such software requires some sort of administrator permission which you can't get from a browser? (If that made sense lol, I don't know my software too well).

[proton]

That would be very hard for them, because you don't need to download anything to play runescape (Or almost anything).

 

Also bots or no bots, the game will stay the same for me.

[LitterBug]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

 

Ye but im not being mean but your just one person they probably ruin the experience of 2/3 of the valid runescape population.

 

This is totally untrue - and random as well.

 

I do admit that bots do make me feel like I'm being cheated but think about the past few days for rune essences.

When the Jagex (either banned the rune essence mining bots) or somehow broke it - the price of pure essences shot through the roof - over 150.

Who the hell is going to RC if it's

a.) one of the slowest skills in the game

b.) provides no real benefit

c.) takes a chunk out of your bank?

 

This is for a relatively unpopular skill such as RC - I couldn't imagine what would happen to the price in game if bots were totally banned.

It would be almost impossible to level prayer/herblore at any effective rate without massive merchanting involved.

 

For the most part - bots don't bother me in the game (other then the fact that they make my achievements feel not as great)

Either way - you can 99.999% beat a bot in whatever they do so I don't really consider them a threat.

In many cases, you can exploit a bot to make your own rs-ing more fun/effective.

[The Observer]

As stated in that Wikipedia article, people have considered it spyware and antiviruses might go haywire. Especially considering a younger userbase uses RuneScape, having that happen will just cause a public relations nightmare, even if it's not entirely a bad program.

 

Also, as Quyneax said, the game is meant to be browser based. Having too much incorporated outside of the browser will remove that whole concept.

[Miner_Guy]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

 

Ye but im not being mean but your just one person they probably ruin the experience of 2/3 of the valid runescape population.

 

This is totally untrue - and random as well.

 

I do admit that bots do make me feel like I'm being cheated but think about the past few days for rune essences.

When the Jagex (either banned the rune essence mining bots) or somehow broke it - the price of pure essences shot through the roof - over 150.

Who the hell is going to RC if it's

a.) one of the slowest skills in the game

b.) provides no real benefit

c.) takes a chunk out of your bank?

 

This is for a relatively unpopular skill such as RC - I couldn't imagine what would happen to the price in game if bots were totally banned.

It would be almost impossible to level prayer/herblore at any effective rate without massive merchanting involved.

 

For the most part - bots don't bother me in the game (other then the fact that they make my achievements feel not as great)

Either way - you can 99.999% beat a bot in whatever they do so I don't really consider them a threat.

In many cases, you can exploit a bot to make your own rs-ing more fun/effective.

 

I dont understand the bit where you say its costly without bots, with bots ess price is lower but runes are higher so atm you spend less but make less profit. And it has alot of benefits like every skill in the game (apart from firemaking)

 

Btw i am f2p so maybe what i am saying isnt valid in members but i am pretty sure it has some truth

[Wkw]

Because unless it scans everything in memory, it can't detect cheating programs.

 

You don't even NEED a dedicated program to bot in RS. Google "action recorder macro". You'll find a bunch of stuff that records keystrokes, mouse clicks and X/Y positions. That isn't even intigrated to the java client and thus isn't even considered a "cheat program" unless you're caught cheating, it is just a macro.

 

Only way for them to tell is to have them scan your entire computer's memory, which is spyware, which is illegal unless you agree to it.

[pal2002]

People who actually consider Warden spyware are the cheaters themselves and crazy privacy activists - Blizzard is very good for only checking for known cheats and being generally very out of the way and all challenges to Warden on privacy have all been quashed.

 

Because it is really NOT spyware, Warden has limitations in detecting all forms of bots. If a system like warden were to be made for RS, it will be able to stop current 1 of the major free bots - namely [cabbage].org

however, the other major RS bot, namely [cabbage].net or N***** will be able to escape it.

 

Either way, a dedicated anti cheating client like this could easily stop 60%+ of the bots dead in its tracks - but will Jagex do it? Hell no. They'll continue to rely on their crappy detection system and "enforce" their rules.

[LitterBug]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

 

Ye but im not being mean but your just one person they probably ruin the experience of 2/3 of the valid runescape population.

 

This is totally untrue - and random as well.

 

I do admit that bots do make me feel like I'm being cheated but think about the past few days for rune essences.

When the Jagex (either banned the rune essence mining bots) or somehow broke it - the price of pure essences shot through the roof - over 150.

Who the hell is going to RC if it's

a.) one of the slowest skills in the game

b.) provides no real benefit

c.) takes a chunk out of your bank?

 

This is for a relatively unpopular skill such as RC - I couldn't imagine what would happen to the price in game if bots were totally banned.

It would be almost impossible to level prayer/herblore at any effective rate without massive merchanting involved.

 

For the most part - bots don't bother me in the game (other then the fact that they make my achievements feel not as great)

Either way - you can 99.999% beat a bot in whatever they do so I don't really consider them a threat.

In many cases, you can exploit a bot to make your own rs-ing more fun/effective.

 

I dont understand the bit where you say its costly without bots, with bots ess price is lower but runes are higher so atm you spend less but make less profit. And it has alot of benefits like every skill in the game (apart from firemaking)

 

Btw i am f2p so maybe what i am saying isnt valid in members but i am pretty sure it has some truth

 

Your profit is not less.

When paying ~180 coins PER pure essence - you take a hit on every rune crafted.

HOWEVER, at the lower prices (they're usually around 100) you made profit rc-ing albeit very little.

RC really doesn't have much of an impact on the game (other then bringing in runes but you don't specifically need to be the one crafting it)

[Sir_Squab]

Just throwing this out there, without bots, yes ess would be more expensive, but expect RC to be more lucrative without, you know, RC bots. Just saying.

 

Now, if Jagex breaks/bans a bunch of rune essence MINING bots, but doesn't ban a corresponding amount of rune essence CRAFTING bots, then that is the time that RC takes a hit.

 

Anyways, considering one of Jagex''s main attraction is being browser based, forcing this Warden Software download on players doesn't seem like a good way to keep that particular attractive part of RS. I also have trouble imagining the Warden software actually being particularly effective, but I don't really want to go into that because I honestly don't know, and read maybe a paragraph of the wiki article lol.

[Alphanos]

There seems to be a lot of bizarre stuff going on in this thread.

 

1) If there were no bots, essence would be more expensive. So would the finished runes. Over time a new balance would develop, and I'm guessing it would be very profitable for high-level runecrafters, who used to be the richest skillers in days gone by.

 

2) Warden, or something similar could stop some bots, but not nearly all of them. So long as there's financial incentive for bot-writers to continue their work, and it is technically possible for them to do so, they will. If Warden-like spyware closes off one category of bots, there will be plentiful replacements of another sort.

 

Even software which was capable of entirely scanning your system's memory and perfectly understanding everything it found would be insufficient. Someone would just come up with a way to run Runescape in a virtual machine (i.e. VMWare) with the bot running in the outer OS.

 

There are possible solutions to bots, but this isn't one of them.

[All_Bogs]

While I'm sure that Warden causes bot-developers some headache, it doesn't magically make all problems go away. Botting is still quite rampant in WoW (even if you can't see it, 'cause the bots are under the friggin' floor), non-legit players account for 90% of the economy, and then there's crap like gold selling companies spelling out their URLs through corpses of dead gnomes in the middle of major cities...

 

Running a process such as Warden through a browser-app might also be troublesome and would likely require users to actively install a piece of software.

[Miner_Guy]

Bots really don't ruin my game experience to be honest - they do a lot of menial tasks that I don't so I have very little interaction with them.

 

Ye but im not being mean but your just one person they probably ruin the experience of 2/3 of the valid runescape population.

 

This is totally untrue - and random as well.

 

I do admit that bots do make me feel like I'm being cheated but think about the past few days for rune essences.

When the Jagex (either banned the rune essence mining bots) or somehow broke it - the price of pure essences shot through the roof - over 150.

Who the hell is going to RC if it's

a.) one of the slowest skills in the game

b.) provides no real benefit

c.) takes a chunk out of your bank?

 

This is for a relatively unpopular skill such as RC - I couldn't imagine what would happen to the price in game if bots were totally banned.

It would be almost impossible to level prayer/herblore at any effective rate without massive merchanting involved.

 

For the most part - bots don't bother me in the game (other then the fact that they make my achievements feel not as great)

Either way - you can 99.999% beat a bot in whatever they do so I don't really consider them a threat.

In many cases, you can exploit a bot to make your own rs-ing more fun/effective.

 

I dont understand the bit where you say its costly without bots, with bots ess price is lower but runes are higher so atm you spend less but make less profit. And it has alot of benefits like every skill in the game (apart from firemaking)

 

Btw i am f2p so maybe what i am saying isnt valid in members but i am pretty sure it has some truth

 

Your profit is not less.

When paying ~180 coins PER pure essence - you take a hit on every rune crafted.

HOWEVER, at the lower prices (they're usually around 100) you made profit rc-ing albeit very little.

RC really doesn't have much of an impact on the game (other then bringing in runes but you don't specifically need to be the one crafting it)

Sorry i got my wording wrong when i said profit i meant the money made from runes

[spooferfish]

It's easy to beat Warden as well. I used to bot and use various other things Blizzard didn't want you to on Diablo II. When warden kicks on, your third party programs shut down.

 

I'm staying in hope that Jagex is working on something that works to combat bots...

[Bows]

While I'm sure that Warden causes bot-developers some headache, it doesn't magically make all problems go away. Botting is still quite rampant in WoW (even if you can't see it, 'cause the bots are under the friggin' floor), non-legit players account for 90% of the economy, and then there's crap like gold selling companies spelling out their URLs through corpses of dead gnomes in the middle of major cities...

 

Running a process such as Warden through a browser-app might also be troublesome and would likely require users to actively install a piece of software.

Exactly. There is nothing more I can on to this post, I agree 100%. :thumbup:

[Gse]

I'm so sure they could think something out by their own head,and I am absolutely sure,there will be something like that later on,but browser based,as we want it.

[sees_all1]

Because warden is likely protected by several patents and they don't want to pay to license it appropriately?

Because the Java Runtime Environment is very restrictive on what you can and can't do in one of their applications?

Because Jagex is too proud to admit that their anti-macro software isn't fool proof?

Because even with a system like warden, applications and processes running in different environments can still be spoofed?

 

Any of those suffice?

[Wkw]

I use a text macro for a game called Magicka that lets me type out complex commands with 1 keyboard press. For instance I have my 1 key bound to press fqfqasafq in quick succession to cast spells.

Often times I don't bother to quit it when I exit the game.

Had Jagex installed spyware technology on my machine, I may be flagged for botting when I'm not

 

They is very little ways for them to detect you are a bot if you aren't using something that interfaces with java and interacts with the game via UIDs.

 

If someone creates a device that looks at the physical screen and physically moves and clicks a mouse depending on color and shapes, that would technically be a bot, but on the other hand it wouldn't be a bot.

 

Wait until 2017 when people have AI play the game almost as good as humans.

[BioIce]

I use a text macro for a game called Magicka that lets me type out complex commands with 1 keyboard press. For instance I have my 1 key bound to press fqfqasafq in quick succession to cast spells.

Often times I don't bother to quit it when I exit the game.

Had Jagex installed spyware technology on my machine, I may be flagged for botting when I'm not

 

They is very little ways for them to detect you are a bot if you aren't using something that interfaces with java and interacts with the game via UIDs.

 

If someone creates a device that looks at the physical screen and physically moves and clicks a mouse depending on color and shapes, that would technically be a bot, but on the other hand it wouldn't be a bot.

 

Wait until 2017 when people have AI play the game almost as good as humans.

 

Magicka, eh?

 

 

 

 

On topic, forcing users to install something like Warden is not the way to go about stopping bots. I'd much rather they addressed the cause of botting, but it could be argued there wouldn't be much of a game left if they minimized grinding.

[iamsomebody1]

Because warden is likely protected by several patents and they don't want to pay to license it appropriately?

 

Because Jagex is too proud to admit that their anti-macro software isn't fool proof?

Because even with a system like warden, applications and processes running in different environments can still be spoofed?

 

Any of those suffice?

 

"Because warden is likely protected by several patents and they don't want to pay to license it appropriately?"

 

I said something like warden that doesn't mean to just steal it but to work on there own kind of program.

 

 

"Because the Java Runtime Environment is very restrictive on what you can and can't do in one of their applications?"

 

If Jagex made some changes to there rs client they could make it so you have to download it to play rs and then the program would check if it sees any cheating programs

 

 

"Because Jagex is too proud to admit that their anti-macro software isn't fool proof?"

 

Erm.. no comment.

 

 

"Because even with a system like warden, applications and processes running in different environments can still be spoofed?"

 

That is true but you have to remember most of the people botting are probably younger kids with a short attention span I really doubt they know much about computers so while it wouldn't stop all the cheaters it would stop a large amount to really hit them where it hurts.

 

 

"Any of those suffice?"

 

And nope I don't want to play a game where half the players are cheating when there are so many ways to stop them.

[Nash]

Why do kids care if other people bot the game? Your supposed to be playing the game for your own enjoyment; not to compete with others. If your mad they unfairly got levels that you worked to get your obviously playing wrong. It should have been fun to get those levels, and if you dont enjoy leveling then dont use that skill (hence why my farming lvl is 38 but i still have a 2k total lol).

 

 

On the other hand, bots crowding up places like red chins, rune ore, etc would be annoying and that is the ONLY reason i can see as to why bots are a pain.

[BioIce]

 

"Because the Java Runtime Environment is very restrictive on what you can and can't do in one of their applications?"

 

If Jagex made some changes to there rs client they could make it so you have to download it to play rs and then the program would check if it sees any cheating programs

The cheaters would simply "crack" the client i.e. trick it into thinking it is legitimate or it detects nothing, patching it after every weekly update. And we technically already download the game anyway since it's placed in its own cache.

 

That is true but you have to remember most of the people botting are probably younger kids with a short attention span I really doubt they know much about computers so while it wouldn't stop all the cheaters it would stop a large amount to really hit them where it hurts.

And one of those who helped acquire thousands of accounts during the mass hack was a kid. Plenty of kids out there get interested in programming out of frustration with the game, actually. And there's plenty more who are willing to wait for somebody to release a good working public bot client and stick by it.

 

And nope I don't want to play a game where half the players are cheating when there are so many ways to stop them.

Welcome to Runescape, where cheating has been endemic from the first year on out.

 

EDIT: @Cowboy

 

Competition is part of the game since it's a MMO. Some folk enjoy competing, no?

[iamsomebody1]

Why do kids care if other people bot the game? Your supposed to be playing the game for your own enjoyment; not to compete with others. If your mad they unfairly got levels that you worked to get your obviously playing wrong. It should have been fun to get those levels, and if you dont enjoy leveling then dont use that skill (hence why my farming lvl is 38 but i still have a 2k total lol).

 

 

On the other hand, bots crowding up places like red chins, rune ore, etc would be annoying and that is the ONLY reason i can see as to why bots are a pain.

 

Because for one bots have ruined the highscores pretty much, I remember when I was rank 800 with only 96 rc I'm scared to check the ranks now.

 

Also it just gives the game a bad image that cheating is tolerable and it's hard to watch Jagex sell out all the loyal players to some e-thugs just because there subscribed.

 

Alot of lower level players that skill or kill dragons for money also lose profit because the bots make them drop in price..I was browsing the rs forums and now there are frost dragon bots I hear, so basically there killing one of the best money makers in the game now too.