Player Mods, Ethics, and Dicing

[n64jive]

Hey Everyone,

 

So today I ran into a rather interesting predicament in runescape. Never before have I ran into what I like to consider administrative corruption, however I had witnessed it before.

 

I was getting bored of skilling, and decided to try hosting some dice games. I join a friend and we hop a few worlds, offering the services of our dice to all those who wish to partake. After a while, we decide to hop to world 22, as I was told this was another popular dicing world. After advertising our game, it was apparent that this world was "turf" of a popular dicing clan, who I won't advertise. Apparently pissed off, they started spamming to join their cc, as their hosting is legit.

 

Snidely, I commented that my hosting is legit as well, as I see the benefits of hosting legit dice games(the advantage is already in my favor, and I know I could earn more as a legit dicer than as a scammer). Anyway, after a few moments, my friend is muted. He starts talking to me on his other account, making me aware of the mute.

 

A member of the other dicing clan then joins my cc and informs me that if I don't leave, he will 'get' me muted as well. I inform him that I haven't committed any runescape offenses, and that I am doing nothing different than he is. He informs me that this is "their" dicing world, and that I had no right being there. I was in the middle of a game with another person, and continue this game. In the middle of this game, the same person rejoins my cc and says something along the lines of:

 

"Enjoy that mute" "Guys, he is muted. Join "xxxx" cc if you would like to dice". Sure enough, I was muted. I checked my message center to find that I had received a black mark for "item scamming". The evidence was nothing more then me advertising my dice game, as well as my comments on whether the person had one or lost.

 

The mute was apparently removed from my account before the 48 hr period that was required for it, however the mark remains on my account.

 

When I log back in about a day later, the leader of the dicing clan had informed me that if I "messed" with them again, he would do worse than mute me. I started playing kind of dumb and asked him how he had managed to get me muted, and he told me he had a JMOD do it. That was obviously crap. I'm sure it was some pmod.

 

So to sum it all up, I was muted for being competition to this clans dicing game. I found out that you can join this clan, however you must pay the leader of the clan 200m and there is a 4 week trial period. However this apparently offers you protection from being "muted". Sounds like something straight out of "the godfather". Anyway, this is obvious corruption in the community, and I for one think it's pretty ridiculous.

 

As far as dicing goes, to my knowledge Jagex doesn't consider the act against their rules, however I have heard it is frowned upon. Of course this is all controversial, and you won't receive a straight answer from any Jmod about it. For this reason, I still partake in the activity when I am bored. I wouldn't mind starting my own dicing clan, as there is a sense of community. I still await how the appeal will turn out with my black mark. I'm sure I'll get an automated response, and it will remain on the account for a year.

 

Anyway, I thought I would share my stories with the community. I know a few pmods peruse this forum. If any would like to either post your response here or pm what you think about the above action, I would enjoy.

 

-N64jive

[langer]

We're in the era where bots are glorified... I'm not surprised that some pmods would cheat their way too.

[spooferfish]

Its stuff like this why I get harassed when I talk in public.

"eew a pmod"

"pmod! im not talking anymore"

 

Its ridiculous, and sickening.

[The Observer]

According to what's being said, then yes that PMod was far out of line and should be punished.

 

But as Spooferfish was getting at, you shouldn't judge ALL because of those few bad ones. It's a shame that some of them do that, but yeah.

[Jaffy1]

Pmods abusing powers isn't new. Many of them are good people and definetly deserve the position, and many of them aren't.

[K4ylan]

That's like a runescape version of a dirty cop...there was an American Dad episode exactly like this.

[n64jive]

I was no way judging "all" player mods. I know Spooferfish although not as well as I probably should. Both of us have been long time players of this game, and I am aware of his PMOD status. I would never state that all pmods are corrupt, or even that most are corrupt.

 

I just think it's pretty ridiculous that these players are honored by Jagex with the ability to offer some moderation to this game, and instead they abuse their privileges. I also find it discouraging that any sight of competition and this clan is able to call upon one of these players who obviously lacks the ethics that a person in their position should withhold.

 

Next I blame Jagex. 1. For their unclear stance on dicing. 2.For their ability to only trust those who they have nominated has player moderators, and to very rarely review if these p mods deserve this title.

[jettrider]

Well, as a pmod:

 

• Pmods aren't supposed to get involved with games involving trust, even ones involving gambling mechanisms eg dicing/flowers. So right off the bat he or she is at fault for taking the side of a gambling clan.
  
• Sounds like awful corruption, and I'm sorry your account is still black marked. Unfortunately, Jagex is unlikely to demod that pmod for a while because reporting gambling games as item scamming is quite common even though it's supposed to be at your discretion. Obviously if the mute was removed early by a jmod, you were not doing anything wrong, but Jagex is unlikely to frown upon overzealous gambling reporting.
  
• Since there are relatively few people who will pay cash for clearly losing odds, you're betting off avoiding dicing if big clans control it. There are ways to make faster and more consistent cash. In a way, hosting is gambling too.
  

[The Observer]

Well, to be fair they could've exhibited good behaviour before what they did. And Jagex can only guess at what they'll do on the future from what they already know.

 

I do get what you mean though. And yes, Jagex seriously needs to take a position on dice games.

[Jaffy1]

I just think it's pretty ridiculous that these players are honored by Jagex with the ability to offer some moderation to this game, and instead they abuse their privileges. I also find it discouraging that any sight of competition and this clan is able to call upon one of these players who obviously lacks the ethics that a person in their position should withhold.

 

Next I blame Jagex. 1. For their unclear stance on dicing. 2.For their ability to only trust those who they have nominated has player moderators, and to very rarely review if these p mods deserve this title.

I'll do you one better, there was a particular pmod that was in a particular scam clan, who actively scammed players abusing the trust his crown gave him. He openly threatened to mute players if they didn't do as he wanted, and did so on more than one occasion (that I am aware of). When several of these "victims" complained to Jagex, he was de-modded for 2 weeks. Then he regained his mod status and came to gloat about it. This person is a pmod to this day, and still does what he did.

 

Still, although many are wonderful friends, the bad apples remain.

 

I think the problem is that Jagex needs to check moderator behaviour better, and take harsh action when trust is violated.

[BioIce]

Behold, the wonders of emergent gameplay. Heh.

 

Get the names of the player mods associated with that clan.

[Michael]

Ethics in Runescape? Don't make me laugh.

[n64jive]

Well, as a pmod:

 

• Pmods aren't supposed to get involved with games involving trust, even ones involving gambling mechanisms eg dicing/flowers
  
• Sounds like awful corruption, and I'm sorry your account is still black marked. Unfortunately, Jagex is unlikely to demod that pmod for a while because reporting gambling games as item scamming is quite common even though it's supposed to be at your discretion. Obviously if the mute was removed early by a jmod, you were not doing anything wrong, but Jagex is unlikely to frown upon overzealous gambling reporting.
  
• Since there are relatively few people who will pay cash for clearly losing odds, you're betting off avoiding dicing if big clans control it. There are ways to make faster cash.
  

 

I respect your reply, however I disagree with you're final comment There are ways to make faster cash.. If you take the scamming out of dicing, it really is no different then many legal us casino games.

 

The house edge in dicing with 60x2 is 18%, which is pretty horrible compared to games like blackjack and roullete, however compared to games like keno and some slot machines, it's right on par.

When free trade first came out, I was able to easily turn a 10m cash stack into over 200m in only probably 10 hours of playing. I don't know any other activity that gives 10-20m per hour, along with social interaction.

[Frede173]

Its stuff like this why I get harassed when I talk in public.

"eew a pmod"

"pmod! im not talking anymore"

 

Its ridiculous, and sickening.

I can imagine it being frustrating having to endure bs like that every day.

...But come on, that's just one of the many downsides of being a pmod. I'm pretty sure you already knew this before you became one.

 

But I can't really deny either that ever since Jagex changed one of the 'requirements' to become a mod to being "community focused" (AKA attending [cabbage]ty events and sucking up to certain J mods) I have -to some extend- lost faith in p mods. I don't know if the person behind the crown is a regular player with common sense or a kid with an eternal thirst for attention and fame.

But hell... Guess I'm just another doomsayer that babbles in gibberish about how I miss the 'old' days.

[Jaffy1]

But hell... Guess I'm just another doomsayer that babbles in gibberish about how I miss the 'old' days.

In the old days all it took to become a pmod was to report lots and lots of bots. :thumbup:

[Crossed_Body]

I don't see the point of pmods in the first place. It's not like jagex bans bots or reads reports.

[n64jive]

I don't see the point of pmods in the first place. It's not like jagex bans bots or reads reports.

 

The point of pmods is so they don't have to read reports...apparently.

[Jaffy1]

I don't see the point of pmods in the first place. It's not like jagex bans bots or reads reports.

 

The point of pmods is so they don't have to read reports...apparently.

 

Yes, normal players' reports do appear to be ignored into the extreme..

 

When you're a pmod you'd have access to something called a moderator centre, which allows the pmod in question to see the reports that they made, which player and what world, and whether or not they have been processed by a jmod. They even get feedback at times, and can directly communicate with Jmods by means of a message system.

 

Pmods also aren't bound by the 60 second rule between reports, and (of course) can check the mute option when they report.

 

 

In short I agree with you, the cons outweigh the pros as far as I'm concerned, and as long as Jagex has this poor selection process it never will.

 

(I used to be a Pmod, and quit because I kept getting harrassed by people because of my crown.)

[jettrider]

I respect your reply, however I disagree with you're final comment There are ways to make faster cash.. If you take the scamming out of dicing, it really is no different then many legal us casino games.

 

The house edge in dicing with 60x2 is 18%, which is pretty horrible compared to games like blackjack and roullete, however compared to games like keno and some slot machines, it's right on par.

When free trade first came out, I was able to easily turn a 10m cash stack into over 200m in only probably 10 hours of playing. I don't know any other activity that gives 10-20m per hour, along with social interaction.

 

If you can find the business, by all means go for it.

Personally, even if I wasn't a pmod, I would find it very tedious to advertise my game to people stupid or desperate enough to actually play it for extended periods of time.

 

But if you have a steady base of players then dicing is a great income game if it remains 10-20m/hr over an extended period.

[n64jive]

So this time, a guy was dicing in a different clan. He was offering 60x2 95x3, which is only a 6% house edge, compared to 18% of the other clan. Well, he payed me out on a 900k bet, and I let everyone around know that he is legit.

 

This is the results. Both the original host and I were muted.

 

[neogilgamesh]

From what I read on the forums, it would appear they are treating merely hosting these games as an actionable offence, which I find repugnant since no change in the official rules was made to reflect that position.

 

Quick find code: 250-251-635-62768514

 

The QFC I just posted was made by a player in a similar predicament as this topic's original poster. The player was muted for hosting a dice game, and he believes the abuse report was sent by another hoster that did not appreciate the competition.

 

I also made some posts on this thread saying that if it indeed Jagex's position to take action against you for merely hosting these types of games, it needs to be clearly written in the game rules. I got a Fmod response with my first post to which i responded. The Fmod then stopped replying in that thread and is apparantly letting the thread die (currently on page 37 of the section it was posted in incase you want to read it before the page 51 monster devours it.)

[Den]

Oh wow, I can't believe there is a godfather of dicing. Made me lol.

 

In all seriousness though, Jagex frown apon all kinds of trust games. PMods get reminders time and time again to stay away from trust games.

Of course, the godfather person needs his lowly corrupt pmod grunts for his dirty work.

 

It's sad but funny at the same time that someone actually decided to create an underground empire on dicing in a world.

 

My advice overall, stay away from the corrupt casino's, or better yet, stay away from trust games all together.

[Crossed_Body]

Oh wow, I can't believe there is a godfather of dicing. Made me lol.

 

Emergent gameplay at its best! No better role playing than actually having a dirty cop.

[neogilgamesh]

People want to play these games without getting scammed. The best way Jagex can put this "Corleone family of RS Dicing" out of business is to give the gambling community actual in game support and make the wagering as secure as staking (removing the trust aspect of playing these games of chance).

[Crossed_Body]

People want to play these games without getting scammed. The best way Jagex can put this "Corleone family of RS Dicing" out of business is to give the gambling community actual in game support and make the wagering as secure as staking (removing the trust aspect of playing these games of chance).

I would fully support this. I've hosted a few dice games as well, 55x2. Ended up losing some, but it was fun.