[Discussion] gambling in runescape, RS Mafia&CO, solutions to the problem

[Peronix]

Then the focus of these minigames shifts from a bit of fun to all about the wealth, which is what happened to the Duel Arena in its true heyday. It's not a pleasant experience to try to play a game with those only concerned for their "wealth".

 

I don't see the problem with shifting the purpose of the Burthope Games room to wealth, because as it stands right now it serves no purpose at all. Last time I went there it was completely deserted, and frankly I can see why. If you want to play a spot of chess, checkers or connect four you have many, many different online options for that, or better yet, you can play it with your friends IRL. Playing it in RuneScape is a bit of a novelty - one that quickly wears off.

 

Staking in the the games room might actually bring a bit more skill to the staking world. No matter how good you are at the dual arena in the end it tends to come down to luck, unless you engage in some form of deception like ruleswitching. Can't count the number of people I've seen rise into the billions in wealth only to be cleaned shortly thereafter. On the other hand if you're a total guru at chess, it's unlikely that anyone will be cleaning you out anytime soon, unless you find someone better and are just too stubborn to give up :P

[The Dark Lord]

It's just emergent game play. Hell, Jagex even added the dice to the game without a specific purpose in mind, just so we could find a creative way to use it.

 

Let them do it.

[War_Junky_91]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

But then you're stuck with another minigame that has lower potential payouts for those actually interested, and it would become underutilized. The money sink idea only works well if everyone participates too.

 

I can't see how a gambling house would actually benefit RS or help curb/legitimize the emergent gameplay that's already going on. Then again, I've made it clear that I can't really see a point in legitimizing the gambling aspect of emergent gameplay.

 

1. It would force the emergent gamblers to offer a better house edge than what Jagex implements. If Jagex implemented a house edge of 5%, it really would just eradicate the player-hosts.

 

A money sink doesn't require all players participate.

 

I think some sort of gambling would be a fun idea. Jagex could even add limits to how much you could lose per day. It would be best if these were dynamic, say based on the cash in your bank and inventory at the time of your first wager for that day. Make it something like 10%, meaning that players could never lose more then 10% of their bank in 1 day.

I really think it's a pretty good idea. Many of us enjoy gambling. I sometimes will play around on pogo or some other site that allows some form of gambling. The problem, however, is that there is nothing to do with the currency on these sites. In runescape, there would be a purpose to winning.

 

Like I said, I also think it would be cool if they offered staking in other type of minigames, such as what is found in the games room. (similiar to conquest)

You have got it. Jagex should do this.

 

1. Make casino rooms in houses (make it easier to play with your buddies) and add casino games to burthrope.

 

2.You can only bet so much per day (or even per week). Based on quest points and/or skill levels would make it not RWT abusable and prevent addictive gambling.

 

3.All cash lost to the house is removed from game. All casino games favor the house, so every game would be a money sink (especially games like roulette). And if they add games where there is a pot like texas hold 'um the house takes a cut. Like 10% or so. So money is always sunk.

 

I would love to see games like this in runescape. It would not only add fun to the game it would add something to counter inflation.

 

EDIT: While posting this on the RSOF i had another idea. Add a "safe" version of each game where you bet with points or tokens that are a contsant and you dont keep. For example every player gets 200 tokens when they start playing Texas Hold Um and at the end when everybody is out of tokens all you get is the right to call yourself a winner. Or they could impliment it so you can win some small prize or something like that by being able to collect the tokens. Nothing worth being an addict for, but to add some fun to it.

[n64jive]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

But then you're stuck with another minigame that has lower potential payouts for those actually interested, and it would become underutilized. The money sink idea only works well if everyone participates too.

 

I can't see how a gambling house would actually benefit RS or help curb/legitimize the emergent gameplay that's already going on. Then again, I've made it clear that I can't really see a point in legitimizing the gambling aspect of emergent gameplay.

 

1. It would force the emergent gamblers to offer a better house edge than what Jagex implements. If Jagex implemented a house edge of 5%, it really would just eradicate the player-hosts.

 

A money sink doesn't require all players participate.

 

I think some sort of gambling would be a fun idea. Jagex could even add limits to how much you could lose per day. It would be best if these were dynamic, say based on the cash in your bank and inventory at the time of your first wager for that day. Make it something like 10%, meaning that players could never lose more then 10% of their bank in 1 day.

I really think it's a pretty good idea. Many of us enjoy gambling. I sometimes will play around on pogo or some other site that allows some form of gambling. The problem, however, is that there is nothing to do with the currency on these sites. In runescape, there would be a purpose to winning.

 

Like I said, I also think it would be cool if they offered staking in other type of minigames, such as what is found in the games room. (similiar to conquest)

You have got it. Jagex should do this.

 

1. Make casino rooms in houses (make it easier to play with your buddies) and add casino games to burthrope.

 

2.You can only bet so much per day (or even per week). Based on quest points and/or skill levels would make it not RWT abusable and prevent addictive gambling.

 

3.All cash lost to the house is removed from game. All casino games favor the house, so every game would be a money sink (especially games like roulette). And if they add games where there is a pot like texas hold 'um the house takes a cut. Like 10% or so. So money is always sunk.

 

I would love to see games like this in runescape. It would not only add fun to the game it would add something to counter inflation.

 

EDIT: While posting this on the RSOF i had another idea. Add a "safe" version of each game where you bet with points or tokens that are a contsant and you dont keep. For example every player gets 200 tokens when they start playing Texas Hold Um and at the end when everybody is out of tokens all you get is the right to call yourself a winner. Or they could impliment it so you can win some small prize or something like that by being able to collect the tokens. Nothing worth being an addict for, but to add some fun to it.

 

You're edit is pretty much the current games room, except for play tokens, you get "rank". People don't want to spend their time playing games they can play on other places of the internet with probably a better interface.

 

The only way to rid the game of dice hosters would be to support either 1v1 staking or add a rs casino with a small house advantage. I for one think it would be interesting as to what games they would add to it.

[Kaida23]

Here's something no one seems to have thought of: Jagex could simply remove the dice from the game. Now, before I get firebombed to the year 3000, hear me out.

 

Dicing clans seem to be a large source of the debate on whether or not trust games are a violation of the rules, and the push to add items/infrastructure to make them 'safe' (or at least prevent scamming). They have also brought up allegations of corrupt player moderators who, supposedly, get competing clan members/hosters muted and potentially banned. To add to the confusion, every time someone runs and advertises one of these games they are potentially breaking two separate rules, which are worded so ambiguously that it depends entirely on how the particular mod reads them.

 

The dice were introduced to the game with no specific purpose, so it's not entirely clear what Jagex though people were going to do with them, but the point is they serve no effective in-game use except to facilitate gambling; which Jagex themselves have stated is "against the spirit of the game".

 

In summary:

Problem: an item has no use in-game except in a potentially rule breaking way that has lead to allegations of moderator corruption

Solution: remove the item.

 

I realize that this would in no way remove all forms of trust games from RS, but would resolve a lot of the issues brought up in this topic and would be a lot simpler to implement than adding extra items or locations to make gambling safe.

[n64jive]

The dice are actually introduced into the game to facilitate a "fair" actions for making decisions in game. All these items that were introduced with the same update as dice were to support common games that are not supported by Jagex (races, hide-seek, etc).

 

So there is a purpose for the dice, although they are largely used for other reasons, especially after free trade.

 

Although I like the idea, I highly doubt jagex would introduce forms of gambling into runescape.

 

Just my opinion...

[Axe_Volcano]

What about the "gambling" options in minigames like Soul Wars and Barbarian Assault? Are those actually considered "Gambling"? Can they come up with something like that in some sort of casino form? You could buy tokens with gold and use those tokens to essentially "Gamble" on random stuff like horse races and slots. Then you can buy some rewards with the more tokens you get!

[timmmmm83]

I am starting to think there really is a Dicing maffia...

 

Friends who started their own dicing cc and paid out legit got muted for two days. "You have no active offences on your account." but still a mute.

Just checked W2, where they were dicing and all main dicing clans (+ their autotalkers) are still active.

 

And I know for sure a J-mod posted dicing games are within RS-rules on RSOF.

 

On of the main dicing clans is even asking 1,5b for a rank. <_<

[Kaida23]

And I know for sure a J-mod posted dicing games are within RS-rules on RSOF.

Any chance of a QFC to that? My understanding was Jagex's official stance on trust games was that they were, although technically not violating any specific rule, "against the spirit of the game".

[Danqazmlp]

And I know for sure a J-mod posted dicing games are within RS-rules on RSOF.

Any chance of a QFC to that? My understanding was Jagex's official stance on trust games was that they were, although technically not violating any specific rule, "against the spirit of the game".

 

Indeed, that is the exact response we got directly from Jagex.

[timmmmm83]

Any chance of a QFC to that? My understanding was Jagex's official stance on trust games was that they were, although technically not violating any specific rule, "against the spirit of the game".

 

Indeed, that is the exact response we got directly from Jagex.

Sure thing, took me some time to find again but qfc: 14-15-460-62823170 on the second page.

 

"You will be able to host dice games as long as you are legitimate. " but not allowed to be advertised on RSOF.

 

(They can't even appeal the mute because there is no 'offence' showing. <_< )

[Kaida23]

Sure thing, took me some time to find again but qfc: 14-15-460-62823170 on the second page.

 

"You will be able to host dice games as long as you are legitimate. " but not allowed to be advertised on RSOF.

Here's a link for those too lazy to type it in. :wink: [qfc]14-15-460-62823170[/qfc]

 

So they're not against the rules, but you can't advertise for them on the forum or announce in game that you're hosting one? :-s

 

That's like selling cigarettes in Canada; you can sell them, but you can't advertise them or display them. :wall:

[DragnFly]

Dice, among other items, where added to the game for the purposes of emergent game play. Gambling is one example of such play that has come out of them.

 

I don't see the harm in it personally. Sure there is potential for scammers, but there is also legitimate game play there. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Also, I want to point out that "trust trades" are *NOT* necessarily scamming. Long before the assist system came out, people used to perform such trades frequently. Personally, I have helped many players (friends and strangers alike) with making armor, mixing potions, and various things and not once did I scam a soul. So personally I do not like this thought that "trust trade" = scamming.

 

In fact, the assist system still has a limit of earning 30k or so experience per day.

[Omali]

Dice, among other items, where added to the game for the purposes of emergent game play. Gambling is one example of such play that has come out of them.

 

I don't see the harm in it personally. Sure there is potential for scammers, but there is also legitimate game play there. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Also, I want to point out that "trust trades" are *NOT* necessarily scamming. Long before the assist system came out, people used to perform such trades frequently. Personally, I have helped many players (friends and strangers alike) with making armor, mixing potions, and various things and not once did I scam a soul. So personally I do not like this thought that "trust trade" = scamming.

 

In fact, the assist system still has a limit of earning 30k or so experience per day.

 

Yep. Jagex really can't start banning dicing, as much as I'm sure they'd like to. It'd put a pie in their face with the whole

 

"Jagex doesn't like emergent gameplay? Yes we do! Here are tools for emergent gameplay!"

*Emergent gameplay appears*

"THAT'S NOT WHAT WE INTENDED!" *BAN*

 

Plus it would once again prove that Jagex doesn't understand the fundamentals of emergent gameplay, namely that it may not have been intended by the developers.

[neogilgamesh]

Sure thing, took me some time to find again but qfc: 14-15-460-62823170 on the second page.

 

"You will be able to host dice games as long as you are legitimate. " but not allowed to be advertised on RSOF.

Here's a link for those too lazy to type it in. :wink: [qfc]14-15-460-62823170[/qfc]

 

So they're not against the rules, but you can't advertise for them on the forum or announce in game that you're hosting one? :-s

 

That's like selling cigarettes in Canada; you can sell them, but you can't advertise them or display them. :wall:

 

 

Dang i tried to follow the quick find code, but the thread is no longer on the forums it tells me.