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The Controversial Thread


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#21
sees_all1
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In my opinion, this thread is a troll thread.
There's some controversy for you.


I fail to see how there is any 'trolling' going on in here, except for your post. There are arguments for both sides of the proposed topics - Why are they 'trollish'?

Its not the users posting, its the thread.

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#22
Assume Nothing
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In my opinion, this thread is a troll thread.
There's some controversy for you.


I fail to see how there is any 'trolling' going on in here, except for your post. There are arguments for both sides of the proposed topics - Why are they 'trollish'?

Its not the users posting, its the thread.


The purpose and intention of this thread isn't to invoke a negative reaction - it's purpose is to discuss topics which may be controversial, debating in a constructive manner. I don't think it would be a good idea to be bogged down on this argument, as it merely creates clutter.

I agree with most views expressed here so far, so I think I ought to wait before I post.

#23
Giordano
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Eh, a generalized thread for everything? I wouldn't say its trolling but it's sure...ineffective.
"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."
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#24
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Eh, a generalized thread for everything? I wouldn't say its trolling but it's sure...ineffective.

And it opens the door for the same kinds of trolling and general assholery that we see on other debate threads (I disagree with your beliefs, therefore you are inferior. Please cease to exist at the sound of the beep). The line between debate and flaming isn't thin, but it frequently gets crossed all the same.

If you want mature, intelligent debate, you've got to make sure that the people posting on it are mature and intelligent enough to do so, and keep out the people that clearly aren't.

#25
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Simple - don't do stuff that will get a legion on your ass (throwing puppies in a river, for example). Basically everyone who got trolled by Anon deserved it. Maybe that just makes me a douche, but basically everyone who have been actively trolled IRL by 4chan, in my opinion, deserved what they got.
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#26
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TANSTAAFL


#27
Star_Fox
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Based on my perspective. viewer's who love flaming discretion is advised.

Meat eating ought to be banned. Cutting the meat industry would mean cutting billions of potential dollars in the State's budget. No.

Animal testing should be banned. Actually, testing on animals brings benefits to our existence. It would make sense to merit something less important
like a mice for instance (which shares identical traits with the human DNA) instead of an actual guinea pig to use on those very important experiments we need. :rolleyes:

Not all people should have the same rights. You're right about this one. Someone who's faced with litters of criminal records and misdemeanors should
be given limited rights like access to weapons than someone let's say...who shoots guns for a living.

Killing in self defense is still manslaughter. No. Killing someone in response to being killed should not merit a criminal record. Part of our natural rights
is our right to life. Isn't it?

Assisted suicide shouldn't be discouraged. If the assistant was given consent, I don't see why not. I support the "right to die" just as the right to live.

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense. No. Saving someone's life is normally life threatening itself. Unless of course, the given situation was something
like failing to use brakes from running over a kid who tripped out of the sidewalk.

Healthcare should be charged based on lifestyles. Agreed. Our choices can go very far into how much we need healthcare. Someone who exploits
alcohol and substances should not have more access to healthcare than someone who chronically suffers an illness by inheritance instead of fault.

#28
Nomrombom
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Abortion is morally wrong. Agreed.

George Bush and Tony Blair ought to be trialled for war crimes. No, you don't have all the details of why those wars occurred.

Meat eating ought to be banned. I don't care about animals.
Humans are animals
Anonymity on the internet should cease to exist. Why? Anonymity exists in the real world, why not in the cyber world?
Where in the real world does anonymity exist other than somewhat over a phone?
Animal testing should be banned. I don't care about animals.

Not all people should have the same rights. Not all people have the same rights now.
The question is *should* they.
Killing in self defense is still manslaughter. This means that if the only way to prevent someone from killing you is by killing them, you are as much a criminal as they are. Flawed.

Assisted suicide shouldn't be discouraged. Suicide is bad, [cabbage] gets better. Assisted suicide should be made illegal.
It is illegal almost everywhere. But if someone is going to do it anyway, isn't it better to make sure they don't affect other people or do it wrong and cost taxpayers as a vegetable?

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense. There are people in this world I don't care about, I shouldn't be punished for that.
You'd be morally okay with letting these people die and not even trying to help? (Assuming said people aren't like terrorists or criminals or something)
Healthcare should be charged based on lifestyles Makes sense.


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#29
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I choose whichever side on these that supports greater personal freedom.

I value personal freedom, therefor I side politically with democrats [on social issues] and libertarians [social/economic issues].

Therefor on all these answers I side with whichever answer serves to expand personal freedom.


Since Im bored Ill fill it out:

Abortion is morally wrong.
Yes it is, but I support anyone who gets one.

George Bush and Tony Blair ought to be trialled for war crimes.
Weapons of mass destruction and 100k civilian deaths. Eh I suppose they ought to but good luck making it happen.

Meat eating ought to be banned.
I dont think the government should tell me what i can or cannot eat.

Anonymity on the internet should cease to exist.
No.

Animal testing should be banned.
I think only mice should be used to test. Anything else I would find to be animal cruelty.

Not all people should have the same rights.
I think felons should still be able to get a job easily/vote/etc. They served their time in jail now let them hold their rights.

I hold that opinion for minority groups such as homosexuals or any other group who doesnt hold the same rights as a young straight white males should have the equality of opportunity that they have.

Killing in self defense is still manslaughter.
No. I dont think the government should lock me up for defending myself against a rapist/murderer/robber who is armed and dangerous.

Assisted suicide shouldn't be discouraged.
If someone wants to die and they have it explicitly stated that they want to die, let them die. I would allow this but have them go through a number of things to make sure they are sure they want to do this.

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense.
No. If I see someone getting attacked it might be in my best interest not to get involved, especially if its gang related...

Healthcare should be charged based on lifestyles
No. Violates my right to privacy I have as a US citizen. See my response to all people should have the same rights.

#30
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Abortion is morally wrong. Agreed.

George Bush and Tony Blair ought to be trialled for war crimes. No, you don't have all the details of why those wars occurred.

Meat eating ought to be banned. I don't care about non-human animals.
Humans are animals
Anonymity on the internet should cease to exist. Why? Anonymity exists in the real world, why not in the cyber world?
Where in the real world does anonymity exist other than somewhat over a phone? --> I can go out onto the street and shout my beliefs to the world. Sure, it's possible to find out who I am if someone decides to look into it, but to an extent this is also possible on the internet.
Animal testing should be banned. I don't care about animals.

Not all people should have the same rights. Not all people have the same rights now.
The question is *should* they. --> No.
Killing in self defense is still manslaughter. This means that if the only way to prevent someone from killing you is by killing them, you are as much a criminal as they are. Flawed.

Assisted suicide shouldn't be discouraged. Suicide is bad, [cabbage] gets better. Assisted suicide should be made illegal.
It is illegal almost everywhere. But if someone is going to do it anyway, isn't it better to make sure they don't affect other people or do it wrong and cost taxpayers as a vegetable? --> No, assisted suicide encourages suicide as an acceptable form of escape from problems. It is completely unacceptable. We should be discouraging suicide, not making it easier.

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense. There are people in this world I don't care about, I shouldn't be punished for that.
You'd be morally okay with letting these people die and not even trying to help? (Assuming said people aren't like terrorists or criminals or something) --> Yep, I don't care about them. Their lives mean nothing to me.
Healthcare should be charged based on lifestyles Makes sense.


TANSTAAFL


#31
marcustullius
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I think people are looking at the life saving one from the wrong angle. It's not about saving someone drowning in a frozen river, or jumping in and helping someone in a fight, or anything like that. If you see someone choking, should it be illegal to not try to assist? If you see someone having a fatal allergic reaction, should it be illegal to not try to assist? Or if someone is working on their roof and falls off, should it be illegal not to try to help them?

I'd like to point out that in some places it is against the law to not help, and you'd need some Good Samaritan law to protect the one assisting.


My two cents on two other ones

1. Anonymity on the internet:
I don't want potential employers or family or friends to be able to google my name and see everything I post, the Internet is all about anonymity.

2. Meat
No, it's the circle of life. Humans are omnivores, we like meat. Now if you're talking about treatment of animals, that's definitely something that can be improved on.

#32
marcustullius
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I don't know how to read weird quote edits like Rocco posted, so I have no idea who posted this:

No, assisted suicide encourages suicide as an acceptable form of escape from problems. It is completely unacceptable. We should be discouraging suicide, not making it easier.


That's pretty bold of you to say. There are illnesses where people suffer a great deal of pain, have to sell their houses and possessions to pay for treatment (that will still end with them dying and possibly their family being left behind in debt), and who it WON'T get better for. For them, suicide is the quicker and more painless route to the inevitable conclusion. Some people go through pain that you will never experience, and it will NEVER get better for them, only end the same way assisted suicide would. Except longer, more drawn out, more expensive, and more painful. If they do kill themselves, what does it matter to you?

I suggest reading this, it was posted by a guy who decided to commit assisted suicide after suffering from a condition that he wouldn't beat.

http://www.reddit.co...s_left_to_live/
I THINK at the end after reading all the comments, he decided not to do it, but really it's a mystery. Also, some Gawker writer Andrew Chen tried claiming that he was lucidending, turned out he wasn't. However, no one knows WHO it really was or how it really ended or if it was legit. So just take it on faith and enjoy the ride or read it as you know, something that people have actually been through before.

On Tuesday I'll finally end my battle with cancer thanks to Oregon's Death with dignity act. As part of my preparations I've ended my pain medication and am trying to regain what little dignity and clarity I can.

Who I was doesn't matter. I'm in pain, I'm tired and I'm finally being granted a small shred of respect. Feel free to AMA if you're so inclined.

Why do they oppose peoples right to not suffer? It takes numerous doctors to get here ensuring no one uses this option recklessly. My care is a huge burden to my loved ones, and it's not fair to position your suspicions over their realities.



#33
rocc0
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I don't know how to read weird quote edits like Rocco posted, so I have no idea who posted this:



No, assisted suicide encourages suicide as an acceptable form of escape from problems. It is completely unacceptable. We should be discouraging suicide, not making it easier.


That's pretty bold of you to say. There are illnesses where people suffer a great deal of pain, have to sell their houses and possessions to pay for treatment (that will still end with them dying and possibly their family being left behind in debt), and who it WON'T get better for. For them, suicide is the quicker and more painless route to the inevitable conclusion. Some people go through pain that you will never experience, and it will NEVER get better for them, only end the same way assisted suicide would. Except longer, more drawn out, more expensive, and more painful. If they do kill themselves, what does it matter to you?

That's an extreme case - this is why I hate answering big issues with a yes or no. Obviously someone in such a spot should be helped by assisted suicide. My fear is that this will lead to an increased prevalence of suicide among people whose problems can be overcome. More suicides = more emotional tragedy, and that's bad for everybody.

Also, it seems like everyone on TIF is a redditor now o_O

TANSTAAFL


#34
marcustullius
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That's an extreme case - this is why I hate answering big issues with a yes or no. Obviously someone in such a spot should be helped by assisted suicide. My fear is that this will lead to an increased prevalence of suicide among people whose problems can be overcome. More suicides = more emotional tragedy, and that's bad for everybody.

Also, it seems like everyone on TIF is a redditor now o_O


What does "redditor" mean? That story was like the only time in 6 months I actually visited it, and I find it pretty...ugly? Don't like the format.

Yeah, people should be helped in different situations, but ultimately it's their choice. I mean I'd rather someone I know didn't, but it's not my choice.

OP, to avoid stuff like this I'd suggest making the questions/statements more neutral.

eg:

Just tell people to post their opinion on:
abortion
GW Bush and the "war"
meat eating
anonymity on the internet
animal testing
equal rights for everyone
self defense laws
assisted suicide
Uhhh, good samaritan laws maybe?
Setting health care costs depending on your lifestyle

I think the non-neutral questions kind of pigeon hole the conversations in certain directions

#35
marcustullius
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Whoops, meant to change something in my last post.

Yeah, people should be helped in different situations, but ultimately it's their choice. I mean I'd rather someone I know didn't, but it's not my choice.


what I wanted to post was that assisted suicide kind of implies that it's for medical reasons. Although I don't necessarily see anything wrong with someone ending their life in general, in the context of the topic I think it's for doctor assisted suicide, not like, "I hate life and am going to kill myself" suicide.

#36
rocc0
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Redditor - n, one who browses reddit frequently.

The formatting seems bad at first but once you're used to it it is very good. The community is very cool as well. Reddit is basically my only news source now.

TANSTAAFL


#37
champion
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Abortion is morally wrong.
No.

George Bush and Tony Blair ought to be trialled for war crimes.
I don't know.

Meat eating ought to be banned.
Honestly I think it would make the world a better place all-around, but no.

Anonymity on the internet should cease to exist.
No.

Animal testing should be banned.
Yes, except for like mice or something.

Not all people should have the same rights.
Based on their actions, not by their religion/race.

Killing in self defense is still manslaughter.
No.

Assisted suicide shouldn't be discouraged.
Sure.

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense.
Eh, no.

Healthcare should be charged based on lifestyles (more applicable to the UK, as the National Health Service pays for pretty much all noncosmetic treatment)
I don't really understand this.











Also, lmao @ 'decline in debate threads.' That's complete [cabbage].

 


#38
Maze
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Abortion is morally wrong.
I disagree. It's the mother's choice if she wishes to abort a fetus inside of her. People should have control over what they want and do not want in their bodies.

Meat eating ought to be banned.
I disagree with this also. Remember Prohibition in the 20s? Hardly anybody followed the law because people drank alcohol for such a long time (centuries). If we ban meat, I'd bet money that the same thing would happen.

Animal testing should be banned.
For health purposes and benefit of humans, I think it should be allowed. For cosmetic purposes, no.

Killing in self defense is still manslaughter.
I disagree. If someone is threatening the life of somebody, then they should be able to kill the other person in self-defense without facing charges. It's hard enough dealing with the post-dramatic stress, and facing charges would be simply silly in my eyes.

Not saving someone's life should be a criminal offense.
It depends.

If someone is drowning in a freezing river, you couldn't really save them because you'd probably freeze and get hypothermia as well. However, if someone is hanging off the edge of a building, crying for help, and you don't help them, that should be a criminal offense.

#39
marcustullius
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Not all people should have the same rights.
Based on their actions, not by their religion/race.


Now this right here is a problem. People who are born in poor, underprivileged areas and lives are probably going to be those people that get declined some rights based on their actions. If something like this were a reality, everyone would need to have equal opportunities and upbringings. Not really possible in a capitalist economy.

#40
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Not all people should have the same rights.
Based on their actions, not by their religion/race.


Now this right here is a problem. People who are born in poor, underprivileged areas and lives are probably going to be those people that get declined some rights based on their actions. If something like this were a reality, everyone would need to have equal opportunities and upbringings. Not really possible in a capitalist economy.

That's true, didn't consider that.

 





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