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Tip.It Times - 22nd May 2011


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Guest jrhairychest

Most wouldn't have a problem with articles overall, even those that are more opinion than fact based as it at least provides reasonable discussion. However, I draw the line at the 'long' article. It doesn't really have anything interesting to discuss and should be kept to the technical sections of the site. I also get the feeling this article was wrote for the author to broadcast "hey look what I know, aren't I technical?".

I'm glad to see you made it past the introduction. :rolleyes:

 

You mean to get to the actual point? Nobody really writes like that unless they're trying to prove some sort of point. You could have summed up in a much shorter article without over-elaborating on the tech speak. I'm a programmer in business applications, and even I switched off reading it. This sort of subject just doesn't stimulate that sort of debate unless you're in a programming forum with people like :geek: . It doesn't belong in a gaming forum and the lack of real debate on the subject proves that.

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You mean to get to the actual point? Nobody really writes like that unless they're trying to prove some sort of point. You could have summed up in a much shorter article without over-elaborating on the tech speak. I'm a programmer in business applications, and even I switched off reading it. This sort of subject just doesn't stimulate that sort of debate unless you're in a programming forum with people like :geek: . It doesn't belong in a gaming forum and the lack of real debate on the subject proves that.

I'm not entirely sure you even know what my article is about.

But, whatever. If a two paragraph introduction (background information meant for someone with no prior knowledge describing WHY runescape is the way it is) is enough to get you to say tl;dr and skip the rest, you're not worth the time it takes to argue the merits of my article.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Guest jrhairychest

I'm not entirely sure you even know what my article is about.

But, whatever. If a two paragraph introduction (background information meant for someone with no prior knowledge describing WHY runescape is the way it is) is enough to get you to say tl;dr and skip the rest, you're not worth the time it takes to argue the merits of my article.

 

Ill be blunt......

 

I'd read it. Its long and its laborious. It hasnt set the world alight in the debate stakes. People want to discuss the game, not read an article that takes two paragraphs just to explain one point. If we all wanted to discuss it, we would, but we havent.

 

Dont be too quick to attack for not knowing what the article is about or not reading it for being too long. A bad workman blames his tools just like a bad author blames his audience.

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Regarding the skillcape article;

 

I have been saying this since early 2007, when I first left the game because of it. People were not interested in spending a couple of hours with me patrolling the wilderness or having some fun in Castle Wars. They were cooking 5000 lobsters in Rogues Den instead. Why? So they could get a 'cool' purple cape.

 

I came back after they stemmed the RWT (which exploded a little while after skillcapes, :rolleyes: ), so in 2008.

 

I noticed everyone was buying and selling items at the Grand Exchange rather than creating things themselves, doing store runs. These tasks were left to the newer, newbier breed of players. People set fire to the grand exchange, fletched around it, did all of their herblore tasks there, etc. etc.

 

Then as the Grand Exchange became more controlling with the merchanting clans pretty much deciding who got left behind, who turned a quick buck and who had to fork out abnormal amounts for skilling supplies bots were trickling back in under the form of dragon slayers. These RWTers would offer to farm gold for you because prices would skyrocket and collapse every week on the Grand Exchange, preventing 'skillers' from getting those 99s they so desired.

 

After this came the PvP worlds and Wilderness Bounty Hunter (not to be confused with the Volcano). PvP was infested with '26kers' and '76kers' as we liked to call them. Making money off the stupid system. Those who actually pvped were outnumbered it seemed.

 

PvPers who had returned, began leaving in frustration. Newer players were treated like slaves ('09 prod/'10 prod's) and basically tasked to do the lower grinding part, getting next to no recognition for their work... So they turned to botting. Bot during the night, skill during the day. Heck, for some of them it's bot during the night, bot-skill during the day.

 

Jagex, trying to find something to get their playerbase back, desperatedly holds a vote (this is what brought me back...) promising they would remove the majority of macro users and return free trade and the Wilderness.

 

The damage has been done. More and more players turn to macro-based scripts to get their pixelated 99 capes. The money they spend for these capes is farmed by other macro users, or gold farmers. The Wilderness, with its nice massive Clan Wars Arena and Volcano, reminds us of the days when Jagex was willing to curb down on these problems.

 

No more.

 

/ramble.

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I have to agree with the skillcape issue. I have a friend who's spending hours on end standing around in the G.E. buying himself a fletching skillcape. Yea, that sounds like fun. <_< I may have a few skillcapes but they were all acheved unintentionally & without grinding for hours on end. I could have my firemaking cape tonight since I'm only 90k xp away from it but I'm not going to senselessly grind away at it to get it.

 

I managed to pull my buddy away for a little bit with the promise that I'd provide our disease protection as we thieved coffins in Jig Gig. Within 1/2 an hour the urge to go back to grinding for that cape overwhelmed him.

 

Worse yet is the fact that he's buying all those logs which just supports the bot industry. :shame:

 

 

I really liked your article Nomad Rogue. Well done :thumbup:

 

I quit playing Runescape because of the path called "Grinding". And a classmate of mine said "Why do you play Runescape? IT*S A GRIND GAME!". I did not understand where he was coming from back then, because Runescape had a mild form of grinding. But with Completionist cape and Max, i now understand him better.

 

I don't understand why you would play runescape if you don't like grinding. The only reason to play runescape is because it's the only grinding game left. If you want to play a game of skill play an FPS or League of legends. If you want to play a re-skin of facebook play world of warcraft.

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Just saying, these are the best two articles I've read in the past few weeks.

 

Runescape is gonna die sooner or later, its just a fact. i give it 5 years max.

 

About grinding being the only reason to play, i disagree. After playing runescape for six years on different accounts and quiting many times, i keep coming back. It's not addiction related and I'm not clinically insane. Runescape just has something that other games don't, whether it be the ease of pickup and play, the community, or the "grind", theres something about it that makes worth playing even with xbox 360, wii, and ps3 in the basement.

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Just saying, these are the best two articles I've read in the past few weeks.

 

Runescape is gonna die sooner or later, its just a fact. i give it 5 years max.

 

About grinding being the only reason to play, i disagree. After playing runescape for six years on different accounts and quiting many times, i keep coming back. It's not addiction related and I'm not clinically insane. Runescape just has something that other games don't, whether it be the ease of pickup and play, the community, or the "grind", theres something about it that makes worth playing even with xbox 360, wii, and ps3 in the basement.

 

You say RuneScape's going to die soon, yet you simultaneously assert it has 'something about it' that makes it worth playing. Not to say your point is invalid. Certainly, it could happen. But I find that you've seemed to contradict yourself so quickly to be strange. You also assert that its forthcoming demise is an uncontested 'fact' and yet you don't provide any evidence substantiating this claim. And to be blunt, if these two articles are the best articles you've read in some time, I can only assume you either don't read much of anything, or you have very low literary standards, perhaps brought on by the circumstances of the former.

RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
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My Stats on Old School RuneScape: 

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That was rough. Ill be sure to clearly state between opinion and fact in the future, although i assumed it was obvious. And you will surely allow me the honor of being able to compliment the authors of the articles on having written, in my opinion, the best in recent times? (honestly, rip apart everything else i have said, but leave me that) And please, explain to me why these articles were not up to the standard set by last weeks? I don't see any evidence substantiating this claim. You present clear opinions as facts.

 

One more thing: The fact that i find something in Runescape worth playing does not mean that Runescape won't die. In fact, if I am as idiotic as you made me seem, it would seem to mean that Runescape is doomed to fail tomorrow. I was merely putting forth that, all things do, in fact, come to an end. and Runescape 2 is no exception. More than five more years before this happens would surprise me (opinion).

 

Despite the blatant condescension, I appreciate the criticism.

 

Does anyone know if Jagex planned on running Runescape indefinetly if Mechscape had actually been a success?

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I like the skillcape article. I get really bored these days training skills like catching butterflies for hunter, making runes for RC etc. so most of the time I'm slaying now and using the effigy drops to train the rest of my skills. I can't stand dungeoneering, runecraft and farming, so effigies are a godsend for me. My inspiration is now the max cape. I've never wanted all 99's so badly before, but Jagex gave me reason to :-D

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I always contended that the "Skillcape craze" really was a turning point in terms of the player environment within Runescape. Seems I am not the only one who thinks so. :thumbup:

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I don't understand why you would play runescape if you don't like grinding. The only reason to play runescape is because it's the only grinding game left. If you want to play a game of skill play an FPS or League of legends. If you want to play a re-skin of facebook play world of warcraft.

Grinding is part of what makes a game interesting, but i feel that Jagex have gone to far.

 

5K PK-ing kills for a new emote/Tier 6 Wildstalker helm (of course it's a reward for PK-ers, but non-Pkers want to have the emote too!)

Complete game for best cape

 

At ^this pace i bet that many players will quit the game. That's my prediction.

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I don't understand why you would play runescape if you don't like grinding. The only reason to play runescape is because it's the only grinding game left. If you want to play a game of skill play an FPS or League of legends. If you want to play a re-skin of facebook play world of warcraft.

Grinding is part of what makes a game interesting, but i feel that Jagex have gone to far.

 

5K PK-ing kills for a new emote/Tier 6 Wildstalker helm (of course it's a reward for PK-ers, but non-Pkers want to have the emote too!)

Complete game for best cape

 

At ^this pace i bet that many players will quit the game. That's my prediction.

 

It's a choice to go for those things. They didn't exist before and the game wasn't ruined. They exist and it is? They only matter if you choose to let them matter. It's the same game as it was before they were added; it's just an option for people who want to do it.

 

---

 

As for the skillcapes, couldn't disagree more. The competition for 99s back in RSC was intense already. Did they/we get any skillcapes? No. Also, the skills were harder to train and opened up even less content. 30k/hr was great for combat achieved in high wilderness or certain other locations if you concentrated; now you talk about 150k+ if you mean "great" combat exp. If the assumption was correct, why on earth would people have bothered to get 99s, I mean come on, no skillcapes? No way I'm getting a 99 without a skillcape! Ridiculous logic with no basis as far as I can tell. Don't know anyone that does 99s solely for capes.

 

Personally, I go for a 99 because I want to; it's a personal goal. I stopped caring about the high-scores in 2004 when RS2 came out. I play when I want to play(~75% of my played time is still from RSC) and train what I want to train, even if it involves "mindless" grinding. It's not for a darned skillcape, that's for bloody sure.

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I'd read it. Its long and its laborious. It hasnt set the world alight in the debate stakes. People want to discuss the game, not read an article that takes two paragraphs just to explain one point.

You haven't posted anything in your criticism that leads me to believe that you've read the article.

"This sort of subject just doesn't stimulate that sort of debate unless you're in a programming forum with people like :geek: . "

Let me be blunt. My article is not about programming. The first two paragraphs are about programming, in the context of explaining why the game is the way it is. Everything after that discusses how several aspects of the game might change if those programming limitations were removed.

 

I don't have the luxury of assuming that everyone reading my article will have the same background as me, so I do my best to bring them up to speed. If you have the same background as me, or already understand the information I'm presenting, then yes, it might seem a little dull just as if someone tried to explain addition again.

 

If we all wanted to discuss it, we would, but we havent.

I can write a troll article and get about 14 pages of discussion on how wrong I am. I don't measure my success by how much time I have to use to defend my position.

 

Dont be too quick to attack for not knowing what the article is about or not reading it for being too long.

"Your article sucked!"

"Did you read it?"

"No." :unsure:

 

A bad workman blames his tools just like a bad author blames his audience.

wat

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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It's a choice to go for those things. They didn't exist before and the game wasn't ruined. They exist and it is? They only matter if you choose to let them matter. It's the same game as it was before they were added; it's just an option for people who want to do it.

 

 

Same old bull [cabbage] about "Your not forced". That¨s what people always say when i mention it¨s to much grinding.

 

My solution has always been:

If you want to call yourself a "Completionist player", Jagex should reward you but not take combat players down the drain by giving you combat stats for your reward

 

From my point of view, Completionist cape (untrimmed) is currently the best stat cape in game. In other words, it¨s a item relevant to Combat. And i don¨t see why i should grind "GAME OVER" for it.

 

And if my view is a wrong one, does that mean that Combat items should evolve around GREAT GRINDING? There is "No, this is an exception". Your either for mass grinding for a combat item, or your against it. I didn¨t mind that some items (Excalibur for example) required some other stats, but items like Comp cape is to much.

 

POINT SHORT AND SIMPLE:

Combat items should not require heavy grinding. Comp cape should be no exception.

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Guest jrhairychest

A bad workman blames his tools just like a bad author blames his audience.

wat

Pretty much sums it up. You're constantly stating I haven't read the full article when I'm probably one of the few who got to the end. Like any bad author you're blaming the audience for not getting it instead of taking stock of what's been said. Yes, I'm criticising the article. Too long, too boring and too trying to prove a point. You could have halved the article content by simply referencing changes to programming without taking two paragraphs alone explaining programming concepts then get straight to the point listing the possible game changes. Simple.

 

If you're so right and I'm so wrong then where is the stimulating debate on the subject...Oh yes there isn't any. Get over it instead of acting like a petulant child sticking your fingers in your ears.

 

Oh and by the way a bonafide and employed programmer would have understood my quote about a bad workman blaming his tools.

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Overall, both articles were pretty good, even if they gave us information most players already believed or had an opinion on. I agree with the first article on upping to the long. In fact, if Jagex did this, it could bring relief to the culture described by the second article.

 

On the second article though, I must note this quote:

 

We are now playing a dying game. Internet Research company Alexa has shown a 32% decrease in pageviews of Runescape.com over the last 3 months.

 

This statistic is deceptive, misleading, and a blatant example of data manipulation in order to fit the argument. Want to know why pageviews has decreased for Runescape.com over the last three months? Look to what was (re)released three months ago: free trade and wilderness. Most players who do not play consistently probably browse their RS news on sites like Tip.It rather than the RS homepage due to the community factor of such sites. The decrease in page views accounts for the players who came back for free trade, messed around for awhile, and then left again. This type of traffic occurs on the RS website every time a major update is released.

 

To say that RS is a dying game based upon such a fool-hearty statistic is just plain wrong. I am surprised that no one else has brought this up so far in the discussion (at least I did not see it while browsing).

 

Wessan is back (if you have missed me) and Wessan has spoken.

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It's a choice to go for those things. They didn't exist before and the game wasn't ruined. They exist and it is? They only matter if you choose to let them matter. It's the same game as it was before they were added; it's just an option for people who want to do it.

 

 

Same old bull [cabbage] about "Your not forced". That¨s what people always say when i mention it¨s to much grinding.

 

My solution has always been:

If you want to call yourself a "Completionist player", Jagex should reward you but not take combat players down the drain by giving you combat stats for your reward

 

From my point of view, Completionist cape (untrimmed) is currently the best stat cape in game. In other words, it¨s a item relevant to Combat. And i don¨t see why i should grind "GAME OVER" for it.

 

And if my view is a wrong one, does that mean that Combat items should evolve around GREAT GRINDING? There is "No, this is an exception". Your either for mass grinding for a combat item, or your against it. I didn¨t mind that some items (Excalibur for example) required some other stats, but items like Comp cape is to much.

 

POINT SHORT AND SIMPLE:

Combat items should not require heavy grinding. Comp cape should be no exception.

I don't get this... Are you jealous because he's killing stuff 2% faster than you with that 0.5 str and +10 attack, angry because he can crash you at bandos?

Why would you want to go for that cape besides the emote, anyways. Once you get it you completed the game.

 

I agree that achievement capes were made to show off and some people only get them to show off, but you can brag your skills with quickchat too. OMG REMOVE QUICKCHAT NAO.

No.

Juxter.png

Quest cape achieved on 7/11/2010.

You'd have to be some sort of masochist to want to be a forum moderator on the RSOF. They're honestly better off, imo.

 

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I don't get this... Are you jealous because he's killing stuff 2% faster than you with that 0.5 str and +10 attack, angry because he can crash you at bandos?

Why would you want to go for that cape besides the emote, anyways. Once you get it you completed the game.

 

I agree that achievement capes were made to show off and some people only get them to show off, but you can brag your skills with quickchat too. OMG REMOVE QUICKCHAT NAO.

No.

No, i am not jealous. It just shouldn't be that big of a grind for a item related to combat.

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