China Using Prisoners To Farm MMOs

[Master_Smither]

Theres nothing humane about beating someone with a pipe or sleep deprivation.

And really, sitting in the same spot grinding in an MMO for 12 hours is equally extreme. Let's put this in perspective. 8 AM to 8 PM in the same spot, repeating the same task, and being beaten if you don't meet your quota? Combined with said sleep deprivation.

 

The only kind of person who would really be okay with that is an MMO addict, and I really hate to play that card here.

 

Even MMO addicts have Skype, a radio, TV, etc. Imagine sitting with only RuneScape open for 12 hours with one, if any breaks to go to the bathroom and such. It's a form of psychological torture that's for sure. Last I knew the act of playing loud music to prohibit a prisionor to sleep was considering cruel and unusual punishment.

[n64jive]

[hide]

Allright. Let's put it this way. Let's make a line of numbers between -10 to 10.

 

Now, waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days gets a -9 or -10. Probably -9 because I somehow doubt you couldn't find something more sadistic if you really, really tried.

 

And for 10, let's say having a very nice time with members of the gender you are interested in. I'm phrasing it like this for the small percent of the population whose interests are different then the larger percent of the population.

 

Now, obviously forcing a person to mine all day and goldfarm all night doesn't get a solid -9. But what we're trying to say is, that doesn't earn it a number somewhere on the positive side either.

 

The question isn't whether or not it's the worse form of cruel, unusual, obscene punishment (although it obviously scores in the "unusual" category.) The question is, DOES it qualify as some sort of obscene punishment. Which, imo, it does. How does forcing a guy to mine for 12 hours then not letting them sleep sound? Don't compare it to being waterboarded 183 times in 30 days. I just want to know if you consider it excessive punishment and/or torture.

 

See, that's the thing that makes this ridiculous. Waterboarding at a -9 or -10? I think it would be exaggerating to call it a -4. You're awfully naive about the amazing ways human's have invented to inflict pain on one another, both psychological and physical. Which is the crux of the matter - when you consider what other atrocities are committed today, forcing people to spend exhausting hours playing a computer game to make you money doesn't even come close to genuine "torture".

 

lol at comparing sleep deprivation of a college student to that of a prisoner.

 

College student: Sleep deprived for the week of finals (and or some other deadlines), followed by a big party where we get to go out and get drunk, likely until we pass out with some random stranger or puke somewhere.

 

Prisoner: Sleep deprived because of staying up all day doing physical labor and all night staring at some stupid screen. When they are done...well, there is no done for them. They do this for their entire sentance.

 

Be glad your an american in the 21st century. (Also let Blyaunte voice her opinion, as this isn't the 1800's or the early 1900's.)

 

I like how you automatically assume you know everything about everyone. Sorry, but that's just not true. This particular friend doesn't go to parties, and doesn't spend time socializing with his classmates besides the rare moments he has between classes. Why? Because he's at his home, either studying, or sending e-mails to his professors asking for clarification about the homework, because the professor stated "0 < x < 0" in the homework assignment.

 

Just because some college students get off easy doesn't mean all of them do - there ARE genuinely hard-working college students who spend ridiculous amounts of hours, cutting into their sleep, just to keep up.

 

Oh, so they're punishing the inmates for poor work in the same fashion that elementary and middleschool students in their schooling system are punished for their poor work. Forced to stand in uncomfortable positions and beatings. Again, this is torture how? Within the past few decades, forcing students who perform badly to stand, either holding their arms up or carrying heavy weights, and beating them with wooden/plastic devices, was not only the norm but the EXPECTED in the public schooling system. As in, the parents accepted it as reasonable punishment to instill a strong work ethic. This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

Not so many decades before that women weren't people under the law, so does that mean that it would still be okay if other cultures treated women like that? Oh, wait. That actually happens, and we all get upset over it. Also, I'm pretty sure those children were not hit with metal pipes and allowed to have a proper night's sleep.

 

I don't recall who said it, but I once read (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You can judge a society on how it treats is prisoners.".

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure this kind of schooling still exists today. I've heard horror stories from my cousins still in Taiwan about how harsh their education system is recently, but they're quite ambiguous. The only more detailed accounts I have are from my parents' generation, which is why I said "a few decades ago."

 

Wow...err...umm...well....there we go then... :blink: .

 

I'm scared of university now.

 

To be fair, the reason my friend's college life is so miserable this quarter is because his professors are incompetent as well as ridiculous. Normal college students don't have to put up with crap like assignments undergoing 5 different corrections because the professor can't figure his own class out, all done the night the assignment is due.

[/hide]

 

 

I was merely talking about myself. I didn't even see your post when I posted. Btw, I'm not some underwater basket weeving major, I am a senior in Engineering, which is one of the harder majors. But that is what most of us do. We work our asses all for the better part of the semester and then as soon as finals is up, we throw a rager.

 

Sorry if I offended you, and sorry that your friend is an introvert.

 

Also, I would like to point out that just because someone isn't hardworking, doesn't mean they aren't a good student. People learn at different rates, some of us are able to grasp a concept quickly, while others might be confused.

 

Also, going a few weeks with little sleep is hardly sleep deprivation. That's called "part of life". Go talk to new parents and ask them about sleep deprivation.

Edited June 1, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Wall of quotes now in hide tags.

[Dragondan_Ro]

China and their human rights. Just because someone steals an apple, or say they do not like China's way of doing things, does not mean they deserve to be tortured for years. True, some might say gaming for 12 hours is not torture. But it is still sadistic, since they do not get anything for it at all. And of course, they are still locked up in prison. There are not a lot of people I would say deserve that kind of treatment, and I doubt most in the chinese prisons actually do deserve something like that.

[Heisenberg]

"1. Brutal Beating. Besides punching and kicking, beatings are often carried out using police batons. Many have been beaten to death. Pregnant women have even lost their babies as the result of being kicked repeatedly.

 

2. Beating while a person is hung up. The person is hung up by ropes then beaten. Many deaths have occurred from this torture.

 

3. Handcuffing the hands behind the back. The most painful method is the "finger cuff," in which the hands are tied behind the back with one hand over the shoulder and the other hand against the lower back. The police then apply a great deal of force to pull the two hands toward one another and handcuff the two hands together. Death is caused by heart failure (due to extreme pain).

 

4. Burning with a hot iron. This used to be an ancient torture method, but unfortunately is still in use now.

 

5. Burning with cigarettes. This is commonly used on female victims.

 

6. Electric shocking. Besides electric baton shocks causing deaths, death cases were found from brutal beatings combined with strong ultra-violet ray shocks or electric gun shocks.

 

7. Strong light flashing in victims' eyes at a close distance, causing damage to the vision.

 

8. "Horse Stance" or "Riding the Motorcycle" position. This is a Chinese martial arts basic training position, but it is also used as a torture method, as it is very painful after prolonged periods.

 

9. Biting and tearing by police-trained dogs.

 

10. False execution by shooting. An empty gun is placed against the victim's head and the trigger is pulled.

 

11. Sexually deviant methods of torture. These involve stripping the victim's pants off then beating them up, kicking the private parts, poking them with a wooden stick, or applying electric baton shocks to the private parts.

 

12. Force-feeding human excrement and urine. Victims have committed suicide out of unbearable humiliation.

 

13. Humiliating interrogations or punishment. Using despicable means to place victims in extreme pain, especially means that insult the victim's dignity. "

 

 

While still inhumane, I'd be signing up for the goldfarming over the above options.

[Soma2035]

I was merely talking about myself. I didn't even see your post when I posted. Btw, I'm not some underwater basket weeving major, I am a senior in Engineering, which is one of the harder majors. But that is what most of us do. We work our asses all for the better part of the semester and then as soon as finals is up, we throw a rager.

 

Sorry if I offended you, and sorry that your friend is an introvert.

 

Also, I would like to point out that just because someone isn't hardworking, doesn't mean they aren't a good student. People learn at different rates, some of us are able to grasp a concept quickly, while others might be confused.

 

Fair enough. And no I wasn't offended. I just found it kind of bizarre that you would assume you speak for everyone. Speaking of engineering, my friend happens to be in bio-engineering lol.

 

In any case, the point is that sleep deprivation might be cruel and harmful, but it's still nowhere close to some of the horrifying things we humans do to each other today, especially in China. The whistle blower may have had a very hard time as an inmate, but it's not even close to what some of his peers are undergoing at similar facilities, and him calling it torture still seems a bit laughable, considering the disgusting methods of torture that the word calls to mind.

[swordb88]

Better they become nerds than part of a gigantic army.

 

Just saying.

 

 

TEAM AMERICA

[aspeeder]

Better they become nerds than part of a gigantic army.

 

Just saying.

 

 

TEAM AMERICA

Because I'm sure they'd love to continue gaming after their experiences in gold farming.

[Sly_Wizard]

Being forced to play WoW sounds pretty awesome, actually.

[Obtaurian]

Being forced to play WoW sounds pretty awesome, actually.

 

What sort of gold farming is it, though? I suppose if all you did was grind to 80 and raid it'd be a pretty nice life (or as nice as sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day allows, I guess), assuming the accounts are then sold for cash once they're fully geared.

 

I'd imagine that it's something very tedious and repetitive.

[highlanders]

It's probably not very glamorous, most likely they stand in the same spot and kill the same monsters over and over again for months on end.

[Cassynder]

Good thing they changed his name because if the Chinese government/judicial system/whatever found out he did that interview he'd be thrown right back in there.

[Omali]

Good thing they changed his name because if the Chinese government/judicial system/whatever found out he did that interview he'd be thrown right back in there.

 

He's likely living in another country now.

[jjjon123]

@Blyuante I understand completely what you mean. Many others may not see the amusing aspect of "video game torture". But I do. Just wanted to let you know not EVERYBODY at tipit is a drama-queen :thumbup:

[Sir_Squab]

[hide]

Allright. Let's put it this way. Let's make a line of numbers between -10 to 10.

 

Now, waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days gets a -9 or -10. Probably -9 because I somehow doubt you couldn't find something more sadistic if you really, really tried.

 

And for 10, let's say having a very nice time with members of the gender you are interested in. I'm phrasing it like this for the small percent of the population whose interests are different then the larger percent of the population.

 

Now, obviously forcing a person to mine all day and goldfarm all night doesn't get a solid -9. But what we're trying to say is, that doesn't earn it a number somewhere on the positive side either.

 

The question isn't whether or not it's the worse form of cruel, unusual, obscene punishment (although it obviously scores in the "unusual" category.) The question is, DOES it qualify as some sort of obscene punishment. Which, imo, it does. How does forcing a guy to mine for 12 hours then not letting them sleep sound? Don't compare it to being waterboarded 183 times in 30 days. I just want to know if you consider it excessive punishment and/or torture.

 

See, that's the thing that makes this ridiculous. Waterboarding at a -9 or -10? I think it would be exaggerating to call it a -4. You're awfully naive about the amazing ways human's have invented to inflict pain on one another, both psychological and physical. Which is the crux of the matter - when you consider what other atrocities are committed today, forcing people to spend exhausting hours playing a computer game to make you money doesn't even come close to genuine "torture".

 

lol at comparing sleep deprivation of a college student to that of a prisoner.

 

College student: Sleep deprived for the week of finals (and or some other deadlines), followed by a big party where we get to go out and get drunk, likely until we pass out with some random stranger or puke somewhere.

 

Prisoner: Sleep deprived because of staying up all day doing physical labor and all night staring at some stupid screen. When they are done...well, there is no done for them. They do this for their entire sentance.

 

Be glad your an american in the 21st century. (Also let Blyaunte voice her opinion, as this isn't the 1800's or the early 1900's.)

 

I like how you automatically assume you know everything about everyone. Sorry, but that's just not true. This particular friend doesn't go to parties, and doesn't spend time socializing with his classmates besides the rare moments he has between classes. Why? Because he's at his home, either studying, or sending e-mails to his professors asking for clarification about the homework, because the professor stated "0 < x < 0" in the homework assignment.

 

Just because some college students get off easy doesn't mean all of them do - there ARE genuinely hard-working college students who spend ridiculous amounts of hours, cutting into their sleep, just to keep up.

 

Oh, so they're punishing the inmates for poor work in the same fashion that elementary and middleschool students in their schooling system are punished for their poor work. Forced to stand in uncomfortable positions and beatings. Again, this is torture how? Within the past few decades, forcing students who perform badly to stand, either holding their arms up or carrying heavy weights, and beating them with wooden/plastic devices, was not only the norm but the EXPECTED in the public schooling system. As in, the parents accepted it as reasonable punishment to instill a strong work ethic. This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

Not so many decades before that women weren't people under the law, so does that mean that it would still be okay if other cultures treated women like that? Oh, wait. That actually happens, and we all get upset over it. Also, I'm pretty sure those children were not hit with metal pipes and allowed to have a proper night's sleep.

 

I don't recall who said it, but I once read (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You can judge a society on how it treats is prisoners.".

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure this kind of schooling still exists today. I've heard horror stories from my cousins still in Taiwan about how harsh their education system is recently, but they're quite ambiguous. The only more detailed accounts I have are from my parents' generation, which is why I said "a few decades ago."

 

Wow...err...umm...well....there we go then... :blink: .

 

I'm scared of university now.

 

To be fair, the reason my friend's college life is so miserable this quarter is because his professors are incompetent as well as ridiculous. Normal college students don't have to put up with crap like assignments undergoing 5 different corrections because the professor can't figure his own class out, all done the night the assignment is due.

[/hide]

 

Look, if I try, I can think of things FAR worse then waterboarding. Or, for that matter, things worse then simply inflicting physical pain.

 

What I'm trying to say is, I DO NOT GIVE A MOTHER [bleep]ING [cabbage] how much worse torture can be. My point is, forcing a guy to mine all day and not letting them sleep is, at the very least, some sort of prisoner abuse.

 

And I think people are really forgetting that it's not "You are my prisoner, go gold farm for 12 hours" it's "You are my prisoner, I don't care if you just spent the last 12 hours doing back-breaking physical labor, go gold farm for 12 hours." I think most people are missing out on this point.

 

lol at comparing sleep deprivation of a college student to that of a prisoner.

 

College student: Sleep deprived for the week of finals (and or some other deadlines), followed by a big party where we get to go out and get drunk, likely until we pass out with some random stranger or puke somewhere.

 

Prisoner: Sleep deprived because of staying up all day doing physical labor and all night staring at some stupid screen. When they are done...well, there is no done for them. They do this for their entire sentance.

 

Be glad your an american in the 21st century. (Also let Blyaunte voice her opinion, as this isn't the 1800's or the early 1900's.)

 

You forget, telling someone to stfu is more or less part of freedom of speech.

Edited June 1, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Wall of quotes now in hide tags.

[shasta_sms]

Hmm looks like a case of corrupt prison officials?

 

So long as there are people that are willing to buy gold there seems to always be someone willing to sell it.

[Slayer_Jesse]

Hmm looks like a case of corrupt prison officials?

 

So long as there are people that are willing to buy gold there seems to always be someone willing to sell it.

corrupt prison officials, corrupt local officials, corrupt party members.... this is china, EVERYBODY is corrupt.

[Kaida23]

Hmm looks like a case of corrupt prison officials?

 

So long as there are people that are willing to buy gold there seems to always be someone willing to sell it.

corrupt prison officials, corrupt local officials, corrupt party members.... this is china, EVERYBODY is corrupt.

In communist China, the government corrupts you! :lol:

[Uade]

That is just *beep*ed up...

[WolfieMario]

Allright. Let's put it this way. Let's make a line of numbers between -10 to 10.

 

Now, waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days gets a -9 or -10. Probably -9 because I somehow doubt you couldn't find something more sadistic if you really, really tried.

 

And for 10, let's say having a very nice time with members of the gender you are interested in. I'm phrasing it like this for the small percent of the population whose interests are different then the larger percent of the population.

 

Now, obviously forcing a person to mine all day and goldfarm all night doesn't get a solid -9. But what we're trying to say is, that doesn't earn it a number somewhere on the positive side either.

 

The question isn't whether or not it's the worse form of cruel, unusual, obscene punishment (although it obviously scores in the "unusual" category.) The question is, DOES it qualify as some sort of obscene punishment. Which, imo, it does. How does forcing a guy to mine for 12 hours then not letting them sleep sound? Don't compare it to being waterboarded 183 times in 30 days. I just want to know if you consider it excessive punishment and/or torture.

 

See, that's the thing that makes this ridiculous. Waterboarding at a -9 or -10? I think it would be exaggerating to call it a -4. You're awfully naive about the amazing ways human's have invented to inflict pain on one another, both psychological and physical. Which is the crux of the matter - when you consider what other atrocities are committed today, forcing people to spend exhausting hours playing a computer game to make you money doesn't even come close to genuine "torture".

Notice that Sir_Squab said "waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days". Not "waterboarding someone once or twice". I've nearly drowned twice in my life, and though I will say it is awful, and a horrifying and painful experience, I would still have a hard time placing that as worse than -1 or -1.5. That's just for my personal experiences of drowning*, which obviously did not last several minutes as it does for waterboarding victims (their torture is intermittent, not a continuous 20 minutes of water, for obvious reasons).

 

Bear in mind, with my perception of this scale, having a bad day or getting detention would not even register -.00000005; I'm having a hard time calibrating a scale where the worst torture possible is -10 and 0 is neutral. It may be my pessimism, but I don't think the best feelings possible could reach +10 if +10 is meant to be the opposite of -10 and -10 is the worst torture possible.

 

But I digress; I'm saying I agree with Soma that waterboarding is nowhere near -10. However, the prospect of being waterboarded 6 times a day, even for "only" a month, could easily reach -8. I'd imagine having all your fingers and toes slowly chopped off would be significantly worse than waterboarding. But that form of torture is far from repeatable: you can't just re-attach the fingers and toes and chop them off again. Likewise, I'd imagine having your skin slowly peeled away, and then being entirely submerged in a vat of battery acid, wearing nothing more than a snorkel super-glued to your mouth, would more than easily score -9.5 if not worse. But such torture would, needless to say, kill the victim, ending at least their mortal suffering (let's not let religion into this discussion; only acknowledge both physical and mental torture up until the moment a person has died). 6 sessions of waterboarding daily can be continued for the rest of your life. You probably would be terrified of even a glass of water after a few years, and not die of thirst simply because of the water you inadvertently drink during the torture sessions.

 

Take that into the condition of this topic: yes, physical labor is no stranger in prisons throughout the world. Yes, many disciplinary systems use physical punishment for failing to meet a goal. Yes, college students sometimes experience extreme sleep deprivation. Yes, no-lifers may play WoW for as long as these prisoners do, and some may play it in particularly un-fun ways because they're being the most efficient. Any one of these, in and of itself, is certainly hard to label as torture at all. Put all of these together, and you have an extremely terrible day, but still not necessarily torture (a student can be at a college with corporal punishment and many difficult assignments, plus a side-job at a coal mine, and may spend whatever spare time they have playing WoW, all in their "ordinary life"). But one day is nothing - for example, one day of literally no sleep isn't as terrible as some may think - hopefully most people on this topic can draw on experience for this. Its the sum of many days that compounds mental strain, even when the physical damage heals. Several days without any sleep at all leads to lasting psychological effects that never heal - a few more past that point is certain death, so it's obvious these prisoners at least do get some measure of sleep. Years of being physically punished for mistakes and incompetence, as may be expected, leads to a heightened nervousness and likeliness of panic attacks (hopefully nobody will feel the need to challenge this, since the connection is similar to how the most workaholic nations tend to have higher suicide rates). Extended playing of a videogame, needless to say, has mental consequences, particularly when coupled with sleep deprivation - I feel like relating a case a friend of mine once experienced, but I won't betray his privacy.

 

Now, take that terrible day mentioned above, and multiply it by several hundred to see why it should be considered torture. Mental damage in particular seems to add up faster than it can heal (particularly because, in the case of traumatic experiences or sleep deprivation, it pretty much can't heal). The only possible solace is "getting used to it", but that's not the same as healing. Getting used to monotonous hell can be likened to the mental equivalent of being repeatedly cut in the same area: the scars add up, and your sensitivity is reduced, but you'll pretty much never truly heal. Just because it isn't all at once doesn't mean it isn't torture - to compound three years of the treatment Dali describes all into one day would certainly add up to more pain and suffering (particularly mental) than is actually possible in terms of the worst real-world torture. Whatever you may label as a -10 will still scarcely last a day (I doubt even that long) before the victim is killed, and could never be repeated for the duration of three years. Would you say the person who is waterboarded for fifty years (if even possible without dying from shear mental strain or physical accidents) suffered less than the person who suffered an hour as their skin was peeled off and they were fed to rats? The concept of torture is to cause suffering, and suffering can be compounded over time.

 

Videogames aren't the worst thing in Dali's treatment - he could have been subjected to any number of things in its stead. For example, completing online surveys to get free membership to online games, to pay for the memberships of the gold farmers. Or clicking on advertisments on websites where ad clicks earn the Chinese government money. Or mass-producing 3D models of concept art for companies that have outsourced their 3D graphics. Depending on your mileage, some of those may sound worse than others, but after several months of doing it daily for hours, all would be pretty much equally monotonous to gold farming on a game. Would any be as bad as physical torture? No, although they are punishable with beatings (not really chalking up to torture, of course, unless the beatings last an extended period of time). But there still remains the mental torture: the persistent need to meet a quota or suffer more beatings, coupled with the need to do that same thing over again, to click the same buttons over again, to move vertexes to mimic the lines in concept art over and over again, etc. Worst thing ever? Certainly not. Torture? Definitely. Can hell not be boredom?

 

Swinging a pickaxe at a rock in real life for much of the day is obviously worse than clicking buttons all day, but that's not what's happening here: after they can no longer perform rigorous physical labor, they are forced to continue the associated monotony. You can be physically fatigued and not fatigued mentally, and vice versa. In this case, the prison causes both. The problem? It's easier to tell when a person can no longer physically perform something than whether they can still mentally do it. You can see someone is too tired, you can grab their limbs and pretty much tell when they aren't feigning fatigue. But you can make all the guesses you want as to whether someone has been thoroughly mentally exhausted, is just falling asleep from the boredom, or just isn't trying to stay awake hard enough. You can't read their thoughts and find their real breaking point, which tends to differ between people anyhow. That means there's a good chance the mental overworking may be worse than the physical overworking. Worse still, you can bet the prison guards have all the reason to imagine their captives are "having fun" with their game, compared to the work outside. If someone is legitimately, thoroughly exhausted both mentally and physically, it may not seem that way to the guard who sees them slouch over and fail to meet the quota - losing consciousness from mental exhaustion and falling asleep from boredom can look very much the same, and the latter tends to be a sign of laziness that makes it easier for the torturers to take pleasure in beating their victims.

TL;DR: suffering accumulates over time, even if a day of it means nothing in and of itself. Gold-farming in a game is not as bad as physical labor of the same duration, but gold farming after the physical labor is cruel because your mind continues to be exhausted even after they acknowledged your body's taken enough strain. They can't gauge how much your mind can take, and will think you only fall asleep and fail your quota because of the sheer boredom, not the overbearing mental stress.

 

 

 

*When I refer to my experiences with drowning, I mainly refer to my second experience - I was an infant when I first nearly drowned, so I can't say I remember it, but I definitely was afraid of water and had nightmares even long before my second near-drowning. I was eight when I nearly drowned a second time, and I certainly remember that time clearly.

[Master_Smither]

It's not often I read a post as good as that one. Although you only have 179 posts, that has to be the best post on this thread in regards of argument and organization. =D> Also, an added bonus is that I agree with you :^_^:

[Blyaunte]

A few comments then I am off to bed for the night:

 

1. So far, I have shown this thread to my children, my husband and a half dozen other people IRL -- and they've all agreed with me. Okay, maybe we're all screwed up, but the point is that there's something that some of you are clearly missing, and that appears to be a sense of perspective. Hell, my own son, who plays WoW, read the article and the thread, and half-way through this thread turned to me and said, "They do realize that there's are huge number of people who play WoW for 3-4 days straight, right?" No. Apparently not.

 

2. Secondly, for the purposes of double-checking my own response to this subject matter, I have also dropped the original post and the link to the article in question into two political message forums in which I participate. The main response to it is -- why aren't [we] using this same system in [our country] to make money off [our] prison system? So far, everyone I know is complete agreement that the entire idea of playing WoW for 12 hour shifts as some form of torture is not only laughable, but the responses aimed at me are, likewise, just plain silly. As compared to the long list of atrocities employed by humanity upon humanity, over the course of human history, making someone play a video game under threat of personal injury is, as I said, not even up for consideration as anything more than laughable. Hell -- I am old enough to remember how, in school, the teachers would "improve" our handwriting skills by breaking rulers across our knuckles -- and that was the least of punishments received in those days. Heaven forbid that you complained about it to your parents either, because you'd likely receive a punishment of equal value.

 

3. Thirdly, I'd like to point out something set down in the original article that was clearly missed: it's not even the editor's/writer's opinion that the prisoners playing WoW are sleep-deprived. Read the article again. There is nowhere in that article where it indicates that prisoners were forced to operate under conditions of extreme sleep deprivation. It's implied by some readers, sure enough, and that is clear in their postings here, but that notions is not provided by the source himself or anywhere within the article itself. You all jumped to conclusions that simply weren't there. Threw yourselves into a veritable tizzy about it, in fact. Personally, I find it amusing that I was repeatedly challenged that I hadn't "read the article" when it was abundantly clear that I had, comprehended it, and didn't bastardize the contents of it. :shame:

 

4. Finally, for those armchair International Politics experts trying to exert certain concepts related to the operations of United Nations with respect to the employment of "Universal Human Rights", you may want to better educate yourselves before you engage in these types of discussions. For one thing, the United Nations does not and cannot enforce any Universal Human Rights. As for the other, "Universal Human Rights" are neither "Universal" nor are they "Rights". Sure, there's a lovely idea that every human life should exist under some form of guidance under which all people should be governed -- but that's merely wishful thinking. There's a plethora of countries -- all U.N. members -- that, like China, do not hold to those conditions. Nor should they be expected or demanded upon to function in that manner -- and the U.N. won't make such demands either ...

[Saradomin_Mage]

If you did commit some random "crime" like the petitioning mentioned, would to want to be thrown into prison to break rocks and farm gold until you're both physically and mentally exhausted, and then have someone laugh about your situation?

[The_Fray]

A few comments then I am off to bed for the night:

 

1. So far, I have shown this thread to my children, my husband and a half dozen other people IRL -- and they've all agreed with me. Okay, maybe we're all screwed up, but the point is that there's something that some of you are clearly missing, and that appears to be a sense of perspective. Hell, my own son, who plays WoW, read the article and the thread, and half-way through this thread turned to me and said, "They do realize that there's are huge number of people who play WoW for 3-4 days straight, right?" No. Apparently not.

 

2. Secondly, for the purposes of double-checking my own response to this subject matter, I have also dropped the original post and the link to the article in question into two political message forums in which I participate. The main response to it is -- why aren't [we] using this same system in [our country] to make money off [our] prison system? So far, everyone I know is complete agreement that the entire idea of playing WoW for 12 hour shifts as some form of torture is not only laughable, but the responses aimed at me are, likewise, just plain silly. As compared to the long list of atrocities employed by humanity upon humanity, over the course of human history, making someone play a video game under threat of personal injury is, as I said, not even up for consideration as anything more than laughable. Hell -- I am old enough to remember how, in school, the teachers would "improve" our handwriting skills by breaking rulers across our knuckles -- and that was the least of punishments received in those days. Heaven forbid that you complained about it to your parents either, because you'd likely receive a punishment of equal value.

 

3. Thirdly, I'd like to point out something set down in the original article that was clearly missed: it's not even the editor's/writer's opinion that the prisoners playing WoW are sleep-deprived. Read the article again. There is nowhere in that article where it indicates that prisoners were forced to operate under conditions of extreme sleep deprivation. It's implied by some readers, sure enough, and that is clear in their postings here, but that notions is not provided by the source himself or anywhere within the article itself. You all jumped to conclusions that simply weren't there. Threw yourselves into a veritable tizzy about it, in fact. Personally, I find it amusing that I was repeatedly challenged that I hadn't "read the article" when it was abundantly clear that I had, comprehended it, and didn't bastardize the contents of it. :shame:

1. I am not even going to bother responding to this because for the purpose of this discussion I can make up any amount of people who agree with me.

 

2. Again the same thing about the "two political forums", also getting others to agree with you hardly proves your point. Not to mention I am curious to know which political groups you actually follow based on the kind of views you posted here.

 

3. I agree that I sort of jumped the gun but I still think it is a reasonable inference from the article. They (prisoners) worked manual labour during the day and gold farmed in the night. If this did not cause sleep deprivation, it did result in severe mental and physical exhaustion. Just because there is no evidence in the article of sleep deprivation does not mean this is suddenly a non issue.

 

There are many who share your viewpoint on prisoner treatment but it was the way you went about posting your views was what many of us took an exception to. You laughed at the suffering of these people which shows you have a sadistic sense of humour. I will refrain from replying to your posts on this topic as it is the equivalent of banging my head against a rock.

[Blyaunte]

If you did commit some random "crime" like the petitioning mentioned, would to want to be thrown into prison to break rocks and farm gold until you're both physically and mentally exhausted, and then have someone laugh about your situation?

 

If I was in prison playing a video game and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

[Danqazmlp]

If you did commit some random "crime" like the petitioning mentioned, would to want to be thrown into prison to break rocks and farm gold until you're both physically and mentally exhausted, and then have someone laugh about your situation?

 

If I was in prison playing a video game and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

 

No.

 

I would say you are wording it wrong.

 

If I was in prison being forced to grind a video game with harsh punishments for not doing so and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes: