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China Using Prisoners To Farm MMOs


Omali

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2. The value of an individual's life, the rights that are determined to pertain thereto, varies from country to country.

 

The value of a human's life is universal. That is why systems like Amnesty International, as you thoughtfully pointed out, exist.

 

Using it as a means to belittle the discomfort learning about situations like these might bring is a little uncalled for. For the rest of your post, though, I thought it well put.

Edited by Kimberly
Added a quote to better illustrate the point I was addressing. :)

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2. The value of an individual's life, the rights that are determined to pertain thereto, varies from country to country.

 

The value of a human's life is universal. That is why systems like Amnesty International, as you thoughtfully pointed out, exist.

 

Using it as a means to belittle the discomfort learning about situations like these might bring is a little uncalled for. For the rest of your post, though, I thought it well put.

 

Kimberly -- we'd LIKE to think it is universal -- but it's not. We can claim it to be universal, but it doesn't make it so ...

 

Honestly -- the value of human life varies from person to person, really. I've got three kids. I cherish them. They are a part of me. Yet my neighbour could put her baby in a dumpster tomorrow. Do she and I value human life the same?

 

Hell no.

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STOP USING AD HOMINEMS.

 

Some thoughts:

 

Which is worse: a tortured existence of pain against pain until you die, or a normal existence until you die. (That's for someone with a long sentence).

 

Runescape money-->Amnesty money: There's a difference between sacrificial ethics and just being ethical as you go about your business normally. For example, buying fairtrade coffee is the latter while donating to the people running the plantation is the former. Put it this way: most people care enough to be ethical while doing things but don't care enough to go all out for it. That doesn't mean they don't care.

 

Sleep deprivation is a form of phsycological torture. I wouldn't call that the least of punishments to prisoners.

 

I think it would be good if a scheme could be arranged to open everyone's punishment system to scrutiny, however China's is particularly relevant as the west uses it for any cheap products etc...it's particularly related to the countries we live in in a way that, say, bolivia isn't.

 

China is part of the UN and should therefore subscribe to the UN decleration of human rights.

 

Sleep deprivation through video games is, as I've said before, torture. You can't see the effects with blood and bruises, but the effects are there. Think before you act like they are just half-awake, gently cutting down yew trees (or the wow equivalent).

 

I'm sorry if that sounded awfully rambly, but those were my thoughts. Make of them what you will.

 

Oh, and yes, I do think you make good points. What annoyed me was when you acted like this was some evening jolly for the prisoners.

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I agree it sucks that they do this but thats what they get for committing crimes or being against the Chinese government.

 

Call it torture or not but id rather be on the good side of our future chinese overlords [when China passes the US economy and owns most of our debt, that will be fun times]

 

LOL'd irl ...

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Don't blame me if this is the first time most of you have felt any tweaks of guilt and all I can do is point and laugh at you.

 

I was under the impression you were laughing at the prisoners being tortured... Let me double check...

 

[hide=care to explain it all away?]

I just find it kind of hilarious TBH -- this image of chubby bloated couch potato-esque prisoners being "forced" to play computer games -- as opposed to the physical demand of hard labour ...

 

:lol:

 

On the contrary, it's a hilarious situation. You've got murderers, rapists and goodness-knows what other types of known criminals who, instead of being punished through hard-labour, are now all huddled in front of computer screens playing video games -- and complaining about it ...

 

:rolleyes:

 

Yes, yes, yes -- I am sure that his entire story is 100% factual and we should all feel sorry for these poor downtrodden criminals who are all innocent of the crimes that they've committed been jailed for didn't do.

 

... and after a hard days work "banging those rocks together", they were then "FORCED" to play video games ...

 

I mean WOW -- that is some fricken HARDCORE nasty [cabbage], right?

 

Oh and -- :rolleyes:

[/hide]

 

Yep, still get that impression.

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

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Stop pretending that anything you have to say is relevant. Really.

I was unaware that anything I said was any less relevant than anything you posted, are we all not equal?

 

 

 

You didn't give a rat's ass about the condition of Chinese prisons. If you did, you would've all donated your five bucks a month for Runescape membership to Amnesty International a long time ago, and stopped playing video games.

I think it's a gross midjudgement to say people would stop paying for a game or a service if they truly did care about human rights. Articles like these can often be a gateway for people especially the young and impressionable minds to wake up to the unfair reality that can happen in countries with a lesser emphasis on democracy, freedom and human right's.

 

Amnesty international is far from perfect anyways. Steven Beste makes an interesting case here

 

 

 

China's got a lot of things to answer for, sure. They've maltreated their prisoners. Sure. This is the least of them. For effing sure.

 

I'd consider basic human rights the same, but what can you expect from a country who has limited the amount of children a couple has. An Injustice is still an injustice and it merits discussion, in this case the injustice actually has a merit on gaming and runescape. it's worth discussion.

 

 

1. China is a sovereign nation -- what they do within the confines of their own borders to their own people is their own business. If you don't agree with that, then let's open EVERYONE to scrutiny and take a look at how EVERYONE treats their prison population. You'd likely find this less appealing though -- some countries actually murder their own people in prisons and call it punishment.

 

China is a growing economic super-house - a Member of the UN - this will instantly put them under more scrutiny than say Libya or a corrupt Mexico consumed by a drug war. In the days of Socialnetworking and instantaneous news from twitter, facebook and real time citizen reporting (not that facebook is allowed in china with some of the toughest censorship laws around) - no one is a sovereign nation free from worldwide scrutiny from a violation of civil rights in this technological age. Social Media is growing and harder to control on a worldwide scale.

 

2. The value of an individual's life, the rights that are determined to pertain thereto, varies from country to country. Don't expect any country with over a billion people in it -- to house, maintain and adjudicate -- to have the same concepts of "human rights" and values as your own Western democracy purports to have.

To us in a western democracy, we all are humans, we are all equal and we are all worthy of the same basic human rights.

 

3. If the idea of "forcing" someone to play a video game is your idea of mistreatment -- then, you've a LOT to learn about the cruelty of the world ...

Yeah, i'm sure you've had it real rough. other people have too - the fact people are being sleep deprived and forced to play a game is still morally wrong, it's not really something that can be easily justified.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

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1. China is a sovereign nation -- what they do within the confines of their own borders to their own people is their own business. If you don't agree with that, then let's open EVERYONE to scrutiny and take a look at how EVERYONE treats their prison population. You'd likely find this less appealing though -- some countries actually murder their own people in prisons and call it punishment.

No. What happens anywhere is just as much anyone's business as what happens elsewhere. Yes, everyone is under scrutiny from the general public and other countries etc. (at least the part of the public/world that cares). The US prison system, for example, is criticised very much as well (for being too full for one). One difference is that most western countries at least have a certain measure of transparency, whereas China tries to conceal everything.

 

Should note that just because your own system isn't perfect, you aren't excluded from critcizing others.

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STOP USING AD HOMINEMS.

 

Some thoughts:

 

Which is worse: a tortured existence of pain against pain until you die, or a normal existence until you die. (That's for someone with a long sentence).

 

Runescape money-->Amnesty money: There's a difference between sacrificial ethics and just being ethical as you go about your business normally. For example, buying fairtrade coffee is the latter while donating to the people running the plantation is the former. Put it this way: most people care enough to be ethical while doing things but don't care enough to go all out for it. That doesn't mean they don't care.

 

Sleep deprivation is a form of phsycological torture. I wouldn't call that the least of punishments to prisoners.

 

I think it would be good if a scheme could be arranged to open everyone's punishment system to scrutiny, however China's is particularly relevant as the west uses it for any cheap products etc...it's particularly related to the countries we live in in a way that, say, bolivia isn't.

 

China is part of the UN and should therefore subscribe to the UN decleration of human rights.

 

Sleep deprivation through video games is, as I've said before, torture. You can't see the effects with blood and bruises, but the effects are there. Think before you act like they are just half-awake, gently cutting down yew trees (or the wow equivalent).

 

I'm sorry if that sounded awfully rambly, but those were my thoughts. Make of them what you will.

 

You'd make it a lot easier if you organized them better and didn't repeat yourself.

 

If you want to open China's treatment of prisoners to scrutiny, and condemn them for the things they do, then you'd better be damn well prepared to condemn the treatment of prisoners in some other countries -- particularly those barbaric countries where prisoners are executed, and others held in secret off-site locations where they are routinely tortured. Hell -- in one of the more barbaric countries, some of their prisoners have even been waterboarded 183 times within a 30 day period. It's disgraceful! It's disgusting!

 

Personally -- I'd rather be playing video games -- even if it is WoW ...

 

China isn't the only country that doesn't recognize the U.N.'s definition of human rights. Islamic countries operating under Sharia law don't recognize it either.

 

Not to mention that amongst the list of Universal Human Rights that ISN'T included is the "right to refuse to kill" -- but THAT's another issue entirely ...

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

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But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

Why were you laughing at torture?

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

 

Better men than you and I have debated the philosophy behind basic human rights for as long as the world was turning and I can't recall there ever being an overwhelming cry for human inequality. This isn't a matter of compromise. It's almost as if you're trying to condone this because it's in China, a place where you and I aren't from, simply to play the Devil's Advocate.

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I can't help but to agree with you - well said.

 

Clearly Blyaunte did not read the article, or did not read it close enough.

 

Stop pretending that anything you have to say is relevant. Really.

 

Because trading virtual currency for real cash is somewhat shady, the Chinese government introduced a directive in 2009 making it illegal for businesses to trade virtual currency unless they had a license. Dali was released from prison before this directive, but he believes that prisoners are still being exploited.

 

"Many prisons across the northeast of China also forced inmates to play games. It must still be happening," Dali told The Guardian.

Even if we assume that China has indeed taken action against this, their policy on forced prisoner labour remains intact. Besides trading of virtual currency is still rampant in China, and considering the article outlined the lucrativeness of this venture over manual labour, it is reasonable to assume that this may still be occurring.

 

Regardless the Chinese policy on virtual currency is not the problem here, it is their blatant disregard for human rights and the use of these forced labour camps.

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

 

Better men than you and I have debated the philosophy behind basic human rights for as long as the world was turning and I can't recall there ever being an overwhelming cry for human inequality. This isn't a matter of compromise. It's almost as if you're trying to condone this because it's in China, a place where you and I aren't from, simply to play the Devil's Advocate.

 

Oh -- I am not condoning it at all -- but I am trying to give you and the others here a sense of PERSPECTIVE. You're all acting as though this is the worst thing ever, and it's this response that is entirely laughable.

 

You can piss into the wind all you want, but it's not going to change the wind's direction, and you're only going to end up peeing all over yourself. Trying to declare something as self-evident to someone who cannot or will not agree to it is precisely the same thing. Judging them for it make it all more ridiculous, particularly when, in your own back yard, you're committing far worse atrocities in the same name of those same inalienable universal human rights.

 

In the end, you can only laugh at people who proclaim that they've been tortured by playing video games. Sure it's mean. Sure it's awful. But on the grand scale of things, it's not half as bad as the worst things that are going on in this world.

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Regardless the Chinese policy on virtual currency is not the problem here, it is their blatant disregard for human rights and the use of these forced labour camps.

 

As compared to what, exactly? Can you so easily condemn China for forcing people to play WoW (those bastards!)?

 

If, say, the Americans made an al-Qaeda "terrorist" play Runescape, non-stop, without ever letting him sleep, would that be considered torture too? Would you condemn that too?

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Regardless the Chinese policy on virtual currency is not the problem here, it is their blatant disregard for human rights and the use of these forced labour camps.

 

As compared to what, exactly? Can you so easily condemn China for forcing people to play WoW (those bastards!)?

 

If, say, the Americans made an al-Qaeda "terrorist" play Runescape, non-stop, without ever letting him sleep, would that be considered torture too? Would you condemn that too?

Yes. Your point?

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Regardless the Chinese policy on virtual currency is not the problem here, it is their blatant disregard for human rights and the use of these forced labour camps.

 

As compared to what, exactly? Can you so easily condemn China for forcing people to play WoW (those bastards!)?

 

If, say, the Americans made an al-Qaeda "terrorist" play Runescape, non-stop, without ever letting him sleep, would that be considered torture too? Would you condemn that too?

Yes. Your point?

Yes to both, Like Queyneax, I'd love to hear your point other than trying to get out of the fact you didn't read (i hope) and then laughed at torture and are trying to downplay the situation

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

As others have pointed out, China is part of the UN and (Should) accept and abide by the UN's definition of human rights. I'd be the first to point out that not every member, especially not the US, has a great track record with this, but you were also pointed out that China's treatment of their people is ATROCIOUS. If they weren't a part of the UN your argument might be valid, but they decided to be part of a Western-oriented multinational organization so they have to play by those rules. And understanding that opposing views are different is not the same as knowing that they are equally valid and diametrically opposed, inherently.

 

EDIT: I'm still not sure where you stand. You're cynical about our response and laughing at the "bleeding-hearts," I get that. But in the beginning you weren't laughing at our naivety, you were laughing at the tortured. Mock us for being optimistic, fine, but you still haven't answered us as to why you're laughing at the torture victim.

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Wow thought this thread was about that 1 movie where criminals get a chip implanted and then they are controlled by people who want to play a very realistic game (where they control the prisoners and actually can forse them to have s*x or kill eachother) :D

 

That was a pro movie :')

 

OT :

 

Meh i doubt that is true, if it is true then those ppl are really dumb, they could just download a bot and let the prisoner watch if the bot doesnt crash or something.

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Why is everyone feeding the troll ? Didn't you read the sign in front of the cage ?

 

 

What does that sign look like my good man?

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Why is everyone feeding the troll ? Didn't you read the sign in front of the cage ?

What does that sign look like my good man?

...

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There's a very thin line between trolling and the crap that people on the internet do.

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No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

As others have pointed out, China is part of the UN and (Should) accept and abide by the UN's definition of human rights. I'd be the first to point out that not every member, especially not the US, has a great track record with this, but you were also pointed out that China's treatment of their people is ATROCIOUS. If they weren't a part of the UN your argument might be valid, but they decided to be part of a Western-oriented multinational organization so they have to play by those rules. And understanding that opposing views are different is not the same as knowing that they are equally valid and diametrically opposed, inherently.

 

EDIT: I'm still not sure where you stand. You're cynical about our response and laughing at the "bleeding-hearts," I get that. But in the beginning you weren't laughing at our naivety, you were laughing at the tortured. Mock us for being optimistic, fine, but you still haven't answered us as to why you're laughing at the torture victim.

 

... and I am still laughing at the "tortured" -- because like it or not, they're right where they got because, somewhere, they crossed the line ...

 

... and in crossing that line, they deserve the punishment they received. Again, like it or not, China has every right to treat it's citizens in the manner that they deem appropriate.

 

... and the fact that said punishment was, contrarily, being forced to play video games makes it laughable. On the scale of crying out for attention, the source of the story seriously dropped the ball. If he had wanted sympathy from me, he lost any of it the moment he began the whole playing video games was torture portion of it.

 

In the history of all that is inhumane -- of the stories of the Soviet Gulags, the Concentration Camps -- of man's inhumanity to other men, playing video games is ... what? Really? Really!

 

Like I said -- get some perspective here. It's a sad story. A terrible thing. Yes.

 

... and I can see them making a movie about it now -- Jackie Chan as the man whom, against all odds, gets his Night Elf Mohawk action, wins the girl, kicks all the guard's asses and then escapes the prison in a moment of furious keyboard action, the likes of which one has never seen before on the big screen. All in 3-D!!!!

 

:rolleyes:

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