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The Observer

Muting During Fights

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I know this was on RSC, but thought this should be posted here as well.

 

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Thoughts?


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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . . . .

 

5 people get muted for auto-typing hardly justifies all the drama coming from it. Jagex now says not to mute for auto-typing while before they did. Now that it's clarified I doubt it will happen much anymore, although people will claim that it does (just like people with crap net connections saying they are DDoSed every 3 seconds). VR stirred all this crap up by saying 50+ of their 100 members in-game got muted, now it's becoming more and more clear it was 5 or so and most if not all of them were using obvious auto-typers.


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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . . . .

 

5 people get muted for auto-typing hardly justifies all the drama coming from it. Jagex now says not to mute for auto-typing while before they did. Now that it's clarified I doubt it will happen much anymore, although people will claim that it does (just like people with crap net connections saying they are DDoSed every 3 seconds). VR stirred all this crap up by saying 50+ of their 100 members in-game got muted, now it's becoming more and more clear it was 5 or so and most if not all of them were using obvious auto-typers.

 

I'm pretty sure people the entire clan world uses auto-typers. I've witnessed a few RSD during fights with them. Not saying RSD is bad, but do your PMods mute them? Or do they just leave them be.

 

Personally, I have a problem with PMods muting during fights. It completely ruins the spirit of the game and the job of a PMod. I know people are going to say 'oh but clanners shouldn't be above the rules', but it has turned into a whole idea to mute the opposing clan to gain an advantage over them which has strayed away from enforcing Jagex rules. That in itself can be seen as an abuse of power.

 

I know I was questioning whether to spam or not because people kept getting muted for spamming 'DF DF DF DF DF DF DF'. I didn't want to be one of those people.

 

This isn't based around clan beef, but more my personal experiences. You happen to be RSD and that's the biggest example I've found in my personal experience. I guess it tends to be a bit of a problem due to the amount of PMods. I'm sure other clans would do the same however.


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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . . . .

 

5 people get muted for auto-typing hardly justifies all the drama coming from it. Jagex now says not to mute for auto-typing while before they did. Now that it's clarified I doubt it will happen much anymore, although people will claim that it does (just like people with crap net connections saying they are DDoSed every 3 seconds). VR stirred all this crap up by saying 50+ of their 100 members in-game got muted, now it's becoming more and more clear it was 5 or so and most if not all of them were using obvious auto-typers.

 

I'm pretty sure people the entire clan world uses auto-typers. I've witnessed a few RSD during fights with them. Not saying RSD is bad, but do your PMods mute them? Or do they just leave them be.

 

Get serious, you really think a PMod is going to mute his own clan members? Did the PMods in DF mute your clan members when they spammed N-bombs with autotypers? Of course they didn't. Should they be stripped of their PMod status as a result?

 

Also curious as to why people act like RSD is the only clan who's PMods have ever muted somone in a clan fight. In our Jagex Cup fight with VR one PMod muted almost all of our fall-in leaders and several of our members and made a post on VR's forums laughing about it, getting several positive replies from VR officials. Let's not act like VR, DF, or any other clan is above doing this.

 

Proof:

[hide]hypocrites.png[/hide]

 

We also had several members muted in that fight with VR a couple days ago. Even Green Viking (A PMod!) got muted lol. You didn't see him running around crying a river about it, he just appealed it and it was gone.

 

So until someone can prove to me that we muted 50+ VR in a fight then it's all just bullcrap propoganda. I've seen 5 or 6 VR get muted, and most of those were using obvious autotypers. Everyone here knows that using autotypers is against the rules, so crying about getting muted when you do use it is silly. Unless you think Blazer did all this manually:

 

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Spam like Flash2:wave2:@@@@@@@@@@@@ LOOK HERE RUNESCAPE DINASTY WE HAVE A PILE HERE @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ is annoying, doesn't help anyone find a pile, and lags out the game. People doing that every 2 seconds with an autotyper should get muted.

 

Personally, I have a problem with PMods muting during fights. It completely ruins the spirit of the game and the job of a PMod. I know people are going to say 'oh but clanners shouldn't be above the rules', but it has turned into a whole idea to mute the opposing clan to gain an advantage over them which has strayed away from enforcing Jagex rules. That in itself can be seen as an abuse of power.

 

They had 112 in-game, we had 90. I don't see how 5 or 6 mutes on their side and 2 or 3 on our side can constitute an advantage either way in a fight that large. If it were 50+, then yeah, I would agree. But not that few. And if mods are muting inappropriately then they should be demoted from PMod, RSD or not. I still have yet to see evidence of RSD Pmods muting inappropriately though, the mutes I have seen have been clear and obvious autotypers. Now Jagex says don't mute autotypers so PMods that do will be dealt with by Jagex I'm sure.

 

I know I was questioning whether to spam or not because people kept getting muted for spamming 'DF DF DF DF DF DF DF'. I didn't want to be one of those people.

 

The only DF mutes I know of where when half your clan was spamming N-bombs on our pile. Racist language is still mutable and should be. I'm sure some members of DF have been muted for spamming "DF" only, and those are wrong and should be reversed. Lots of RSD have been muted for the same thing so let's not all act like it's a 1-way street with RSD doing all the muting.

 

Proof:

[hide]Joy Hova (Fall-In Leader)

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Nike

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Green Viking (Pmod!)

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People can talk all they want but at the end of the day people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

This isn't based around clan beef, but more my personal experiences. You happen to be RSD and that's the biggest example I've found in my personal experience. I guess it tends to be a bit of a problem due to the amount of PMods. I'm sure other clans would do the same however.

 

After every major fight we have we have several people muted, same as every other clan. We just don't make a big scene of it. Because all clans have people who are going to break the rules, PMod or not.


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I'm removing the quotes because it broke my post.

 

I don't expect it, but I'm just saying that the role of Player Moderators is to uphold the rules. Ignoring your friends and muting others in the place of them is contradicting that principle. I'm not saying start muting members of your own clan, but muting members of opposing clans for the same act becomes hypocritical. Enforcing it on that principle would make that principle flawed.

 

The principle behind muting them isn't because it's against the rules it's because they are looking for things to mute them. If you were walking across the street and were ticketed for jaywalking, ticketed for spitting or littering constantly it becomes more from handling the law in a responsible way to becoming oppressive. I do understand about the whole N-bomb thing, but most of the autotypers don't lag out the game unless you have a computer that runs Windows 98.

 

And don't act like your clan is innocent. No clan is. I've seen people spamming purple:RSD and similar to what your example was. I know purple:RSD can be typed out, but typing it at the same rate as RSD is quite mindboggling, especially with zero mistakes. I'm not trying to point that out because you're RSD, but no clan is really innocent in this matter. In fact, Solace is quite famous for their spam. Before I left DF, many members used autotypers regularly.

 

Overall, muting people just causes more problems than it's worth and just contributes to the degradation of the already dying clan world.

 

Even if it doesn't have a noticeable affect, emotion had a lot to do with that. You're fighting, you hate the other clan, so you look for reasons to mute them. It's far different from just genuinely upholding the rule of law. Even if you can't see that part, there's a clear bias. So at the very least, instead of muting try reporting them. And regardless there's a ripple effect to every action. It's not like the members of that clan will just ignore it and move on. It could do one of the following: either encourage more problems or have them completely remove themselves from risking it and not speaking at all.

 

I'm not talking towards the N-bombs obviously, but as I said before there's a clear bias shown when your clan is facing the other clan. There's going to be emotions exchanged, and taking action with that emotion shows a compromised sense of judgement. It's more so a matter of ethics and procedure rather than the rules.

 

The examples you showed induced problems within your own clan as well, so it should be a welcome result instead of being dreaded. Unless you like your own clan being muted as long as you can mute the other clan? Not to mention the fact that clans wouldn't want to fight you or any other clan that does the same.


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Personally I don't think they should be muting anyone during a war period, even if the person(s) is using an auto typer.

 

As mentioned it really is against the spirit of a war.

 

Back in 2006-7 when I was into warring, I can't really say I saw that it was a giant problem but yes, it did occur even back then and it looks like Jagex's stance towards that has remained the same (NOT TO DO IT).

 

I personally have never muted someone during a clan war. Yes it did occur to me at times that it would improve my clan's odds of pulling out a win but, if a clan really has to rely on such a cowardly method to win then I can't think of how such a clan would be worth being in.


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I'm removing the quotes because it broke my post.

 

Success! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

I don't expect it, but I'm just saying that the role of Player Moderators is to uphold the rules. Ignoring your friends and muting others in the place of them is contradicting that principle. I'm not saying start muting members of your own clan, but muting members of opposing clans for the same act becomes hypocritical. Enforcing it on that principle would make that principle flawed.

 

It absolutely is hypocritical. I never said it wasn't, I was just calling it like it is. I think with the report system and profanity filter on/off that player moderators are really unnecessary anyhow, but that's a whole other conversation.

 

The principle behind muting them isn't because it's against the rules it's because they are looking for things to mute them. If you were walking across the street and were ticketed for jaywalking, ticketed for spitting or littering constantly it becomes more from handling the law in a responsible way to becoming oppressive. I do understand about the whole N-bomb thing, but most of the autotypers don't lag out the game unless you have a computer that runs Windows 98.

 

Ha ha, it does mine. It's not the computer, rather the fact I live in the boonies and have access to one ISP and it's mediocre at best lol.

 

And don't act like your clan is innocent. No clan is. I've seen people spamming purple:RSD and similar to what your example was. I know purple:RSD can be typed out, but typing it at the same rate as RSD is quite mindboggling, especially with zero mistakes. I'm not trying to point that out because you're RSD, but no clan is really innocent in this matter. In fact, Solace is quite famous for their spam. Before I left DF, many members used autotypers regularly.

 

I don't see anywhere in any post where I've acted like we don't have players that break the rules also. I even said 'all clans break the rules' in my last post so I'm not sure what you're getting on about.

 

Overall, muting people just causes more problems than it's worth and just contributes to the degradation of the already dying clan world.

 

I agree to some extent although I don't think it's that big of a problem. Like I said in my first post, 6 or 7 total people being muted between both clans is not that big of a deal. Flaming, hacking, trolling, DDosing, spying, crash wars, etc. all degrade the clan community way more than a few mutes that will be overturned in a few hours. Not that muting is something good, but if the clan world was really interested in restoring itself to 2006/2007 levels it would make an effort as a whole to cut back on the problems listed above, but those things are not only not getting better, they're getting worse all the time.

 

Even if it doesn't have a noticeable affect, emotion had a lot to do with that. You're fighting, you hate the other clan, so you look for reasons to mute them. It's far different from just genuinely upholding the rule of law. Even if you can't see that part, there's a clear bias. So at the very least, instead of muting try reporting them. And regardless there's a ripple effect to every action. It's not like the members of that clan will just ignore it and move on. It could do one of the following: either encourage more problems or have them completely remove themselves from risking it and not speaking at all.

 

Almost everyone in the clan world knows that you can appeal a clan-related spam mute in a few hours and it's gone. I doubt anyone refuses to spam for fear of being muted. And your advice about reporting instead of muting applies to a small portion of people, the PMods. Going through our 175 man ML (112 Actives + 63 Retireds) I counted 8 PMods that I know of. There might be 1 or 2 more I don't know about, but that's a pretty small portion of our clan.

 

I'm not talking towards the N-bombs obviously, but as I said before there's a clear bias shown when your clan is facing the other clan. There's going to be emotions exchanged, and taking action with that emotion shows a compromised sense of judgement. It's more so a matter of ethics and procedure rather than the rules.

 

The examples you showed induced problems within your own clan as well, so it should be a welcome result instead of being dreaded. Unless you like your own clan being muted as long as you can mute the other clan? Not to mention the fact that clans wouldn't want to fight you or any other clan that does the same.

 

You're inferring that I like clan-related mutes, and I don't. I've never reported anyone for clan spam . . on that matter I've never reported anyone for anything except for one kid PM'ing me like he was Jagex and needed my password to give me billions of GP's :P . Perhpas that's why I'm not a PMod either lol.

 

I'm a realist . . . as much as we'd all like to live in a hippie land where everyone loved one another and hugged trees and all that crap it's not the way the clan world works. As long as regular players have the ability to mute there will always be the opportunity for that power to be abused. What's to stop a RoT/DF/EOS/Random PMod from showing up at the next RSD/VR war and mute all the VR members so it would look like RSD? It really wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

 

All this muting talk here and on RSC is really making a mountain out of a molehill. VR's all over it because it gives them a reason to explain why they lost when outnumbering us by 30 members for most of the fight. And DF is licking it up because they would love to see VR crash us on a regular basis again. It's all dirty clan politics wrapped in a blanket of sanctimony.


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I think we all know this is about Rsd vs Vr and quite frankly, half the members in Vr deserved to be muted for the flaming they do in fights.

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It's all dirty clan politics wrapped in a blanket of sanctimony.

I think we all know this is about Rsd vs Vr and quite frankly, half the members in Vr deserved to be muted for the flaming they do in fights.

 

Sums my thoughts up on this tbh.


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It's only a problem when the moderators only mute the opponent's clan. If they're going to mute their opponents then they should mute their clanmates for breaking the same rule.


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Ex-Leader of Silent Ember - Ex-Leader of True Ownage - Ex-Leader of Legendz

Former Tip.It Clan Community Leader

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Using an auto typer is against the rules and as long as it is there shouldn't be exceptions.


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With love to one, friendship to many, and good will to all.

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Using an auto typer is against the rules and as long as it is there shouldn't be exceptions.

Agreed. As long as a P-Mod is willing to mute his own clan members who auto then there should not be any problems with him muting the opposing clan members.


 

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Well, I've never really been muted in a fight so I can't really see this as a huge update, but muting members of the opposing team just to get the upper hand is kind of low and dirty.

 

I'm a realist

 

Me too :P *High-fives*


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p mods are so bad most of them are corrupt or immature / cant handle stuff as they should


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p mods are so bad most of them are corrupt or immature / cant handle stuff as they should

Yeah I've seen a ton of bad p-mods, gotten muted for the stupidest stuff before. Never been muted for clan spam though...


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I would prefer the original method of spamming; auto-typers are just one step closer to just running a series of bots instead of actually having PKRIs because people are literally too lazy to play a game. So, yes. I agree with muting people for using auto-typers during fights.

 

However, that being said, player moderators that only mute the opposition and not their own clan definitely deserve to have their status revoked.


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