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Micro Transactions vs. Bots...


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#41
Logdotzip
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You're right, I absolutely value each and every skill in this game less than I do real money, as do my friends who are in need of it. I don't see RWTers as bad people at all, they're NOT bad people, they just understand that $100 is going to get them further than, oh, I don't know, ~230m

#42
brunokiller
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If they do either, they will mess it up.

I'd prefer the bots.

Actually, you'd be surprised how many players on this forum have rwted.

#43
jijilentosmi
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You're right, I absolutely value each and every skill in this game less than I do real money, as do my friends who are in need of it. I don't see RWTers as bad people at all, they're NOT bad people, they just understand that $100 is going to get them further than, oh, I don't know, ~230m


I never said they were bad people or somehow immoral, but that doesn't mean they aren't making the game less enjoyable. Besides, there are better ways to make money in the real world.
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#44
Ring_World
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You're right, I absolutely value each and every skill in this game less than I do real money, as do my friends who are in need of it. I don't see RWTers as bad people at all, they're NOT bad people, they just understand that $100 is going to get them further than, oh, I don't know, ~230m


I would agree with you on that. I wouldn't say RWTers are moral nihilists or anything like some other people on this forum do, but it is a sad basement dweller who will throw 100's of dollars away on virtual stuff to be pro at an online game.

On the other hand I would give the guy who won big at staking and sold his bank for $10k or so some major props.

#45
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Yeah there's no saying if RWTers are good or bad IRL, I just meant they could be either, but if they're bad, it isn't necessarily because of selling gold.

#46
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Jagex will never sell rs GP. even though you agree its "their property" on the ToC the day they sell GP is the day that if you get banned you can take them to court and sue them. If you sell something it implies ownership is shifted, otherwise it is illegal.

I think second life sold virtual stuff for real money and banned someone who bought that and got sued.

Jagex wants to avoid direct micro-transactions for that reason. They can get away with certain aspects now because those items are "gifts" or membership is a "bonus" to a free game.


Don't be silly. You'd obviously have to tick a check box that states you acknowledge you are only "renting" GP from Jagex.


Yeah there's no saying if RWTers are good or bad IRL, I just meant they could be either, but if they're bad, it isn't necessarily because of selling gold.


Cheating on a video game doesn't reflect what kind of person you really are in real life. Just shows you have different priorities.
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#47
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I'm in favor of micro transactions if they're done the right way. I've played games where the developers have pulled this off pretty nicely, specifically Lord of the Rings Online. For example, you can offer P2P benefits for sale to F2P players. This enables them to pick and choose which benefits they want instead of getting everything for the membership. Overall, it'd be less beneficial to buy all the perks seperately and would most likely not affect the number of subscribers but it gives casual players a certain amount of freedom.

I'm also not against selling items that are cosmetic. For items that can be gotten in game, I don't see much of a point in buying them from a store since we have the Grand Exchange. I guess they could sell bundles of items like an extreme attack, defense, and strength potion set or shards, pouches, and secondaries for a certain familiar. Additionally, they could offer something along the lines of an xp booster for a set amount of time. A book that boosts your experience by 50% for 30 minutes or an hour would not have a huge impact on leveling unless a player has large amounts of real money but could be useful grinding out that last xp for a level. To combat giving a rich player an advantage, these items could always have a cooldown period where you can't use them all the time. Quest rewards should still have to be gotten in game and players shouldn't be able to buy items they don't have the skill level for. I don't think all items should be offered since players can buy them from the store and sell for gp. I'm totally against selling straight gp.

I also like the idea of offering credit at the online store for in-game achievements. In LotRO, completing certain activities gives you Turbine Points, which can be used at the store. You can only get the points once per task per character, so it's not like a player could realistically milk the game for points. This offers players who don't want to spend extra money a chance to recieve the same perks.

This is just my two cents though.

#48
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Jagex will never sell rs GP. even though you agree its "their property" on the ToC the day they sell GP is the day that if you get banned you can take them to court and sue them. If you sell something it implies ownership is shifted, otherwise it is illegal.

I think second life sold virtual stuff for real money and banned someone who bought that and got sued.

Jagex wants to avoid direct micro-transactions for that reason. They can get away with certain aspects now because those items are "gifts" or membership is a "bonus" to a free game.


Don't be silly. You'd obviously have to tick a check box that states you acknowledge you are only "renting" GP from Jagex.



Its illegal to destroy federal reserve notes because the government owns them. Doesnt mean they can take the ones im "renting" without a [cabbage] storm. Like I said Jagex will get themselves in a legal mess should they start selling runescape money and if such players happen to get banned.

#49
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Jagex will never sell rs GP. even though you agree its "their property" on the ToC the day they sell GP is the day that if you get banned you can take them to court and sue them. If you sell something it implies ownership is shifted, otherwise it is illegal.

I think second life sold virtual stuff for real money and banned someone who bought that and got sued.

Jagex wants to avoid direct micro-transactions for that reason. They can get away with certain aspects now because those items are "gifts" or membership is a "bonus" to a free game.


Don't be silly. You'd obviously have to tick a check box that states you acknowledge you are only "renting" GP from Jagex.



Its illegal to destroy federal reserve notes because the government owns them. Doesnt mean they can take the ones im "renting" without a [cabbage] storm. Like I said Jagex will get themselves in a legal mess should they start selling runescape money and if such players happen to get banned.


All it would take is a simple right up in the ToS, and they would have their ass covered.

If I go to a restaurant, purchase some food, and then turn around and start pissing on the carpet, the restaurant can 1. kick me out, and 2. refuse to refund my money. Same concept, different scenario.

With that said, people could still sue Jagex for getting banned, and most likely would if they had invested some money in it. It would go to court, judge would make a ruling, depending on how he felt was right, and Jagex would likely win (unless there was lack of evidence to show this guy clearly violated ToS, which could happen)
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#50
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Jagex will never sell rs GP. even though you agree its "their property" on the ToC the day they sell GP is the day that if you get banned you can take them to court and sue them. If you sell something it implies ownership is shifted, otherwise it is illegal.

I think second life sold virtual stuff for real money and banned someone who bought that and got sued.

Jagex wants to avoid direct micro-transactions for that reason. They can get away with certain aspects now because those items are "gifts" or membership is a "bonus" to a free game.


Don't be silly. You'd obviously have to tick a check box that states you acknowledge you are only "renting" GP from Jagex.



Its illegal to destroy federal reserve notes because the government owns them. Doesnt mean they can take the ones im "renting" without a [cabbage] storm. Like I said Jagex will get themselves in a legal mess should they start selling runescape money and if such players happen to get banned.


All it would take is a simple right up in the ToS, and they would have their ass covered.

If I go to a restaurant, purchase some food, and then turn around and start pissing on the carpet, the restaurant can 1. kick me out, and 2. refuse to refund my money. Same concept, different scenario.

With that said, people could still sue Jagex for getting banned, and most likely would if they had invested some money in it. It would go to court, judge would make a ruling, depending on how he felt was right, and Jagex would likely win (unless there was lack of evidence to show this guy clearly violated ToS, which could happen)


Jagex has full right to their property. Im sure in their ToS they got a "we can ban you just for the lulz." The difference is if they sold it to you is that that gold is your property no matter what their ToS says.

With the restraunt scenario, you would be able to get your money back. In fact they are obligated to give you a refund. If you wanna play hardball with them you could get much mroe then your $20 back. But you are right to say they can kick you out at any time, just cant kick you out the second you paid without giving you what you paid for thats theft.

Hell even if i violated their "no shoes no shirt no service" policy after I paid (say it was a buffet style place) they would have to give me my money back. Just saying. As a kid I was throwing pop corn at people in the movies (yeah i was stupid) got kicked out, got my refund.

#51
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If the money wasn't created out of thin air or was sold in unalchable items, i'd prefer jagex selling gp. otherwise, bots have a less negative impact.


Maybe they could implement a small "ge tax" or something, like in a lot of other games, and use that money to fund the gold selling... it wouldnt really cause inflation, I don't think, but maybe the stock wouldnt be high enough

#52
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First post on this site, well here goes.
Personally I think Jagex selling RSGP is a terrible idea. As other people have already stated inflation would be terrible because gold would become devaluated especially when all the RWT sites start to undercut Jagex. Also, to the guy who said that he got his money back from the movie theater after throwing popcorn, that probably doesn't happen that often, I have been kicked out of theaters for much less without a refund. Jagex could definitely write something to cover themselves in their Terms of Use policy or whatever. All that being said, I hope whenever the Jagex staff ever starts thinking about selling RSGP they slap themselves in the face and realize once they figure out a foolproof way to stop the horde of bots roaming around (captcha anyone?) a lot of the game economics would fix themselves. That's my two-cents.
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#53
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Jagex could definitely write something to cover themselves in their Terms of Use policy or whatever.



No they cant. :lol:

Just a warning to Jagex should they sell gold, they will get lawsuits against them after bans and they will be successful.


Even if Jagex writes 500 times, this is our property and we can ban you cause we feel like it.

Jagex loses their rights to do so when they sell you gold. Even if they wrote on there 500 times during the gold buying process that Jagex still owns the gold, they still legally gave up ownership when they sold it, even though they wrote 500 times all over their terms and conditions that its otherwise.



There are limits to Terms of Service, and your understanding of the ToS is also important and how Jagex conducts themselves also plays a part.

For example a guy was renting a room for 2000 a month, but only paying the guy 1600. The guy was accepting 1600 for a few months before demanding the rest of the money he is owed. The renter refuses, so he takes him to court. First thing the judge does is ask the renter his understanding of the agreement, he said "I thought it was 1600 a month" and then asks the owner if he accepted the money and deposited it which he said yes to. The judge ruled that through their actions they agreed to a new contract, despite what the writing said.

Same applies to Jagex (in the United States Uniform Commercial Code would dictate contract/commercial law, but the UK has their own equivalent which is very similar) if they conduct themselves in a certain way and you have a certain understanding you could get away with a lot even if they write a lot of stuff there, means nothing unless they follow their end of the contract too.



Like I said, Jagex will be opening a nasty can of worms should they choose to sell gold, doesnt matter what they write in their terms of service policy. Jagex will do well to avoid microtransactions.

#54
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#55
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Jagex could definitely write something to cover themselves in their Terms of Use policy or whatever.



No they cant. :lol:

Just a warning to Jagex should they sell gold, they will get lawsuits against them after bans and they will be successful.


Even if Jagex writes 500 times, this is our property and we can ban you cause we feel like it.

Jagex loses their rights to do so when they sell you gold. Even if they wrote on there 500 times during the gold buying process that Jagex still owns the gold, they still legally gave up ownership when they sold it, even though they wrote 500 times all over their terms and conditions that its otherwise.



There are limits to Terms of Service, and your understanding of the ToS is also important and how Jagex conducts themselves also plays a part.

For example a guy was renting a room for 2000 a month, but only paying the guy 1600. The guy was accepting 1600 for a few months before demanding the rest of the money he is owed. The renter refuses, so he takes him to court. First thing the judge does is ask the renter his understanding of the agreement, he said "I thought it was 1600 a month" and then asks the owner if he accepted the money and deposited it which he said yes to. The judge ruled that through their actions they agreed to a new contract, despite what the writing said.

Same applies to Jagex (in the United States Uniform Commercial Code would dictate contract/commercial law, but the UK has their own equivalent which is very similar) if they conduct themselves in a certain way and you have a certain understanding you could get away with a lot even if they write a lot of stuff there, means nothing unless they follow their end of the contract too.



Like I said, Jagex will be opening a nasty can of worms should they choose to sell gold, doesnt matter what they write in their terms of service policy. Jagex will do well to avoid microtransactions.


could Jagex rent you gold? you could pay 50p to "rent" 1m gp for as long as you are a member or until it is spent.

would that get round any legal issues of ownership?

also if my girlfriend gives me 30m rsgp in return for sexual favours, does that count as RWT?!

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#56
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also if my girlfriend gives me 30m rsgp in return for sexual favours, does that count as RWT?!

I'm pretty sure it would also count as something else you naughty boy. :wink:

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#57
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also if my girlfriend gives me 30m rsgp in return for sexual favours, does that count as RWT?!

I'm pretty sure it would also count as something else you naughty boy. :wink:


Where is runescapes red light district where players do naughty things for cash
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#58
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What Jagex should do is create a handful of 'Botting Free Worlds' where resource spots are monitored, and anyone who fails random events gets a ban. This way players going on these worlds get the advantage of uncrowded resources, but acknowledge if they afk they have a chance of getting a ban. One of the reasons Jagex is afraid of harsher botting punishments is because they don't want to accidentally ban legit players, and this way any legit players who get banned accepted that there was a risk of it and has no right to complain. Alternatively they could only get a ban from the bot free worlds.

#59
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Even competition among bot sites has taken GP from ~$2.50usd per mill at the start of free trade to $0.70.


The huge drop in the price of GP is more to do with the backup of gold that was farmed before free trade, and the fact it is now easier to transfer gold.

I would rather see 50 ess bots that barely effect me than every level 80 with full bandos and a mask set for christmas.
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#60
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I wouldn't mind micro transactions.
They should do limited time offers like at christmas, $5 santa hats or in spring, $5 phat spring clearance sale, or fall 5$ divine shield and torva sale.
That would really knock the wind out of RWTers sails.
They could offer xp bonus packs for 5$ that give you double xp for 10 hours of gameplay, etc.
I think that would reduce the number of morons botting it up on their account or over at soulwars.
I don't care about the purity of the game.
All parts of the game involving gp have already been spoiled.
I would just now like to see the people who spoiled it no longer profit and be forced to move on.

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