23-Jun-2011 - Introducing: the Members� Loyalty Programme!

[Wessan]

Can you please (To save me the hassle :) ) direct me to their rules which state that they, themselves can't offer in-game bonuses for purchasing membership.

 

We see RWT, etc. But that applies to its players, not them.

 

From Runescape.com, under Rules Section:

 

Effective date: 17th February 2010

Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

It says nothing about it being directed only at the players, and even if it did, the rule does not state that RWT is only against the rules when it comes to third party clients. Like I said, they pulled a play from Nixon's playbook.

 

Also, call them bonuses/benefits/microtransactions, it does not change what is happening. I am NOT arguing that it will snowball into larger RWT through Jagex, but I do not like to see it anyway. However, I am a hyporcrite who will participate in the program.

[Carl]

Can you please (To save me the hassle :) ) direct me to their rules which state that they, themselves can't offer in-game bonuses for purchasing membership.

 

We see RWT, etc. But that applies to its players, not them.

 

From Runescape.com, under Rules Section:

 

Effective date: 17th February 2010

Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

It says nothing about it being directed only at the players, and even if it did, the rule does not state that RWT is only against the rules when it comes to third party clients. Like I said, they pulled a play from Nixon's playbook.

 

Also, call them bonuses/benefits/microtransactions, it does not change what is happening. I am NOT arguing that it will snowball into larger RWT through Jagex, but I do not like to see it anyway. However, I am a hyporcrite who will participate in the program.

 

 

Right so, we are getting nit-picky it seems.

 

Under "Honour", where you would have picked that quote from, as the heading it says: We expect our players not to cheat or indulge in dishonest behaviour. With this in mind, the following behaviour is deemed unacceptable:

 

Jagex create the rules which we are to abide by, that is meaning that none of us can gain an advantage from the purchase or sale of an item we do not own to another player in exchange for a benefit elsewhere. It does not state that they, the creators of the game and the rules by which we are bound that they can not offer a bonus for purchasing membership which grants you points that you can collect and then exchange for a vanity item within the game.

 

Reading the above, so, informs us that Player to Player RWT is completely against the rules, but for Jagex - the real owner of these items, it is okay. That is because they are not essentially breaking rules, really. Not only because they don't have to follow them, but because they are the owners of those items they are giving out. And they're not just giving them willy-nilly, you have to have membership... Which millions of people already have.

 

As a result of having membership after a certain period, a 'gift', so to speak, is added. That's a "Thank you", for continuing your membership which grants you something in-game WHICH OFFERS NO BENEFIT WHAT SO EVER OTHER THAN TO LOOK LIKE A PRETTY PRINCESS OR ROFL AT THE BELIEFS OF THE MICRO TRANSACTION FANATICS.

 

And for your last part you mentioned, we can call them bonuses or benefits, stating it is a micro transaction changes Everything.

[highlanders]

I think Jagex only ever was against "RWT" because they were losing money on stolen credit cards. I feel like some "RS virgins" need to go and play a few more mmorpgs so that they can get a bit more perspective as to how things work elsewhere. Adding bonuses and limited time items and things like that with a subscription is not strange in the P2P mmorpg world. It's profitable and I guess Jagex finally decided to live with their time (at least for this aspect). It's not a good thing per se, but not that outrageous. I wish people would stop calling it RWT though, makes you look silly.

[Ezkaton]

TBH if you really want to become ultimately nitpicky Wessan we're already RWTing on a massive scale!

 

Yes! That's right!

 

We pay £3.20 (at minimum) so that we can wear Bandos or Barrows or Dragon Armour, wield Chaotic weapons, or even a whip, and do a massive part of the quests.

 

These auras are nothing more than an extention of that. You build up in-game points through having membership.

 

Oh wait, you say that's different to everything else? Well... Don't you build up in-game cash through Slayer, Herb runs and Bossing, then after a period of time you buy whatever you want?

 

 

Oh deary me...

 

 

On a more serious note, I stand by Carl on this.

 

At any rate... 1 day left, I'm interested and excited for this. Seems like it could be cool :)

[Emmentail]

Reminds me of "Habbo Club" a bit too much.

[Heisenberg]

I think Jagex only ever was against "RWT" because they were losing money on stolen credit cards. I feel like some "RS virgins" need to go and play a few more mmorpgs so that they can get a bit more perspective as to how things work elsewhere. Adding bonuses and limited time items and things like that with a subscription is not strange in the P2P mmorpg world. It's profitable and I guess Jagex finally decided to live with their time (at least for this aspect). It's not a good thing per se, but not that outrageous. I wish people would stop calling it RWT though, makes you look silly.

 

+1

[Isthatok]

Soon Jamflex will lose half their customers.

 

 

EDIT: Plus more fail - the irony.

[Robert_R]

Because half their customers is a little over 2000 people that watch their youtube videos.

[My_Eggs]

Because half their customers is a little over 2000 people that watch their youtube videos.

 

 

The rest are bots that haven't created a script to vote yet.

[Range_This11]

Because half their customers is a little over 2000 people that watch their youtube videos.

Yeah, I have never watched anything on YouTube from Jagex. I rarely follow channels on YouTube anyways.

[Blutters]

I think Jagex only ever was against "RWT" because they were losing money on stolen credit cards. I feel like some "RS virgins" need to go and play a few more mmorpgs so that they can get a bit more perspective as to how things work elsewhere. Adding bonuses and limited time items and things like that with a subscription is not strange in the P2P mmorpg world. It's profitable and I guess Jagex finally decided to live with their time (at least for this aspect). It's not a good thing per se, but not that outrageous. I wish people would stop calling it RWT though, makes you look silly.

 

+1

-1

 

I think some people need to understand that them not doing these things was a reason people play RS over those other games.

Of course, by "these things" I do not consider the loyalty program RWT as it'll (at least at first) be available to any subscribers... In fact it's not really different from any other P2P benefit.

I only disagree with the things that can't be gotten by everyone who purchases members, IE the vanity itemS which there will be more of...

[pakalolo_mon]

I really don't see a problem with this IF the "rewards" here are purely cosmetic.

 

TBH if you really want to become ultimately nitpicky Wessan we're already RWTing on a massive scale!

 

Yes! That's right!

 

We pay £3.20 (at minimum) so that we can wear Bandos or Barrows or Dragon Armour, wield Chaotic weapons, or even a whip, and do a massive part of the quests.

 

These auras are nothing more than an extention of that. You build up in-game points through having membership.

 

Oh wait, you say that's different to everything else? Well... Don't you build up in-game cash through Slayer, Herb runs and Bossing, then after a period of time you buy whatever you want?

 

[...]

 

The difference with this is you rack up points with this without doing anything in-game. You don't just get membership and magically have 100m and full torva appear in your inv/bank. With this someone could just buy a year of membership, not play at all and get a bunch of stuff.

 

But, again, not really a problem since it seems that all these loyalty items will be 100% cosmetic with no real advantages.

 

 

I imagine right after the update comes out the RU forums will be full of people complaining that these don't do anything besides looks. I'm gonna guess that this is also one of the reasons that video has so many dislikes.

 

If they go and make stuff thats actually useful (extra inv spaces, high level weapons/armor) then this would definitely be something worth [bleep]ing about.

[Cheefoo]

Soon Jamflex will lose half their customers.

[hide=]

 

 

EDIT: Plus more fail - the irony.

[/hide]

 

Yes, because 4200 idiots on youtube is a great sample size.

[gspbeetle]

So I hear that someone who begins paying for membership this week is just as loyal as I am? Cool.

 

Now, I'm not saying that I deserve any special privileges or unique items for my five and a half consecutive years, but rather that I should have a five and a half year head start with the loyalty rewards program over Ilikecheese69 who begged mom for a Katana from Gamestop last week. Oh well, this, the Katana, and banning barely banning any P2P bots just shows that Jagex needs some serious cash right now. As long as micro-transactions never come to RS, I won't be upset :-|.

 

Looks like either those shiny new stellar dawn and transformer online really cost them a lot of funds.

I wouldnt mind that too, as long as they make RuneScape into a separate company someday. I dont really want to see RuneScape run by bankers after they got bankrupted by their shiny new inventions. They can still get money from RS by "borrowing".

[Wessan]

TBH if you really want to become ultimately nitpicky Wessan we're already RWTing on a massive scale!

 

Yes! That's right!

 

We pay £3.20 (at minimum) so that we can wear Bandos or Barrows or Dragon Armour, wield Chaotic weapons, or even a whip, and do a massive part of the quests.

 

These auras are nothing more than an extention of that. You build up in-game points through having membership.

 

Oh wait, you say that's different to everything else? Well... Don't you build up in-game cash through Slayer, Herb runs and Bossing, then after a period of time you buy whatever you want?

 

 

Oh deary me...

 

 

On a more serious note, I stand by Carl on this.

 

At any rate... 1 day left, I'm interested and excited for this. Seems like it could be cool :)

 

You just argued something that I already made a distinction about in earlier posts. There is a difference between in-game benefits and in-game opportunities. Loyalty Program = direct benefits (points). Paying for Members = opportunity. Having a Members account does not necessarily mean you will reap rewards from paying for the game. In the game, one must use the avatar to generate benefits. In the Loyalty Program, benefits are given based on the fact that you are giving Jagex money.

 

Now, Jagex is giving you an option to use the points (or not), which is why I AM NOT AGAINST THE LOYALTY PROGRAM, but I contend it is undermining their own rules. Jagex owns the game and can do as they please, but they should not have a double standard for themselves and the players.

 

Finally, I do not see how I am being nitpicky considering Newb asked for a citing of what I was arguing and I gave it to him. He presented a argument as well under the Honor clause of Jagex's rules. I see no nitpicking at all, we both did the same thing.

[Hajutze]

Soon Jamflex will lose half their customers.

[hide=]

 

 

EDIT: Plus more fail - the irony.

[/hide]

 

Yes, because 4200 idiots on youtube is a great sample size.

 

erm yeah .. anything above 384 is a GREAT sample size ... juuuuust for the record. (5% Confidence Interval and 95% Confidence Level)

 

4268 is the sample size needed for 1.5% CI and 95% CL or 2% CI and 99% CL. (anything above 95% CL is just show-off anyways)

[Carl]

You're actually applying that to a RuneScape video hosted on YouTube, LCooL? Sorry but that's just laughable; also to see Isthatok point out the "Ratings" of the video.

 

Essentially there's only the logical way of looking at that video and its ratings, and also why Scorpion replied how he did. I'm sure Scorpion was referring to the 659 posts that were made on the video, of people who may have provided positive and negative feedback as to the Program. Therefore his post was only right in saying thanks.

 

The thing about YouTube videos is - it's not just a poll, people most of the time don't bother voting, myself included. So what's to say that for every negative vote there are't 9 positive? Who really knows? Kind of silly to assume that those results are complete.

[hfbrads]

edit: point already made by Newb

Edited June 27, 2011 by hfbrads

[Hajutze]

You're actually applying that to a RuneScape video hosted on YouTube, LCooL?

I am quoting a post which says that 4200 people are not a good sample size, simples. (I scrapped the rest of your post .. you are talking about a person which I am not familiar with - Scorpion)

[Hajutze]

You're actually applying that to a RuneScape video hosted on YouTube, LCooL?

I am quoting a post which says that 4200 people are not a good sample size, simples.

 

(I scrapped the rest of your post .. you are talking about Scorpion while I was talking about Cheefoo's post - which was pretty much a wrong assumption about sample sizes =/)

 

Actually, to get a 99% confidence level with a confidence interval of 2 with a population of 2 million (there are not 2M members I'm sure), you only need 4152 people to be polled.

 

and 4160 people are enough for everything above a general size of 23 million (just a note :D)

 

Probability math is a fun thing ... for example if you pick 57 random people, there is a 99% chance that 2 of them share the same birthday ... (Tried it 5 times, by the 30th person we had the matching birthdays .. 3 out of 5 had 2 pairs)

[Master_Smither]

You're actually applying that to a RuneScape video hosted on YouTube, LCooL? Sorry but that's just laughable; also to see Isthatok point out the "Ratings" of the video.

 

Essentially there's only the logical way of looking at that video and its ratings, and also why Scorpion replied how he did. I'm sure Scorpion was referring to the 659 posts that were made on the video, of people who may have provided positive and negative feedback as to the Program. Therefore his post was only right in saying thanks.

 

The thing about YouTube videos is - it's not just a poll, people most of the time don't bother voting, myself included. So what's to say that for every negative vote there are't 9 positive? Who really knows? Kind of silly to assume that those results are complete.

 

Actually, to get a 99% confidence level with a confidence interval of 2 with a population of 2 million (there are not 2M members I'm sure), you only need 4152 people to be polled. From a mathematical stand point, those results would be accurate. However, I assume that the people who are outraged tend to be the ones to voice their opinions and the ones who are satisfied will leave it at that, and be satisfied. If people don't vote to voice their opinion, that's their fault. Their opinion won't be heard and we can only judge off of what is presented to us. It is an entire possibility that people are displeased with JaGex, in essence, bending their own rules. If they are not breaking their own rules, they're going against one of MMG's big policy changes: not advertising and flaunting members benefits. They have always had their customers from word of mouth testimony as well. When you're advertising your cards in GameStop with a promotion and then posting something nearly a week before it comes out with the only intention of gaining new members, you obviously just went against advertising the members portion of this game. Yes so what if a company does this, it's normal right? Yup you're 100% right there. However, when the company stays on the same policy of not advertising their members benefits and going as far to remove nearly every aspect of members in F2P to show how important that is to them, they appear to become desperate for money.

 

Personally, I have nothing against the loyalty program. I think it's nice and to those long time members, especially rewarding. I do have something against JaGex's recent activity as a company, however. I won't go into this in detail though. Before someone says, if you don't like them, why are you playing? It's because I currently enjoy the game. People dislike the president of the United States, but continue to live within it's borders, why? Because they can't do anything about it. I cannot change JaGex's minds and until they do something that utterly ruins the game, I will continue playing if I enjoy it. The only thing I can do is throw a brick through their window, and what does that solve really?

[Carl]

You're actually applying that to a RuneScape video hosted on YouTube, LCooL? Sorry but that's just laughable; also to see Isthatok point out the "Ratings" of the video.

 

Essentially there's only the logical way of looking at that video and its ratings, and also why Scorpion replied how he did. I'm sure Scorpion was referring to the 659 posts that were made on the video, of people who may have provided positive and negative feedback as to the Program. Therefore his post was only right in saying thanks.

 

The thing about YouTube videos is - it's not just a poll, people most of the time don't bother voting, myself included. So what's to say that for every negative vote there are't 9 positive? Who really knows? Kind of silly to assume that those results are complete.

 

It is an entire possibility that people are displeased with JaGex, in essence, bending their own rules. If they are not breaking their own rules, they're going against one of MMG's big policy changes: not advertising and flaunting members benefits. They have always had their customers from word of mouth testimony as well. When you're advertising your cards in GameStop with a promotion and then posting something nearly a week before it comes out with the only intention of gaining new members, you obviously just went against advertising the members portion of this game. Yes so what if a company does this, it's normal right? Yup you're 100% right there. However, when the company stays on the same policy of not advertising their members benefits and going as far to remove nearly every aspect of members in F2P to show how important that is to them, they appear to become desperate for money.

 

 

In essence bending their own rules? No. I don't see "We can't offer a bonus for purchasing membership", anywhere in rules that JAGEX HAVE TO FOLLOW. YES PLAYERS AREN'T ALLOWED TO RWT, BUT JAGEX CAN BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY OWN THE ITEMS.

 

They're going against a big policy change? Wasn't that just something they did in late '09 early '10? Nothing was written in stone and is still there to this day that says they have to follow it - absolutely nothing. Appear to become desperate for money by offering an in-game vanity reward for purchasing membership? No, not at all. It's called being sensible and not ruining the experience for everyone with things like micro transactions for useful items, but allowing members - if they so wish, to purchase something completely useless that they don't even need it. It's just there for the taking, almost like a THANK YOU FOR PURCHASING MEMBERSHIP reward.

 

Talk about turning a mole hill into a mountain...Some of you people are bat[cabbage] insane.

[xSxqPowerx]

Just want to comment and say that while the math may be fine, that is an epic survey bias.

[Carl]

I didn't even bother commenting on the math any further, because when applying it to those results obtained from a Youtube video it's just stupid if you expect true results. Your math may be good but you're lacking when it comes to logical thinking and taking other factors into account when doing your math. :thumbdown:

[Hajutze]

It's the best runescape poll with a Jagex iniative in it .. that's all I can say :lol: (worded in another way - the best poll Jagex managed to pull out in a looooong time)