Fixing the Issue

[Nash]

Before I ask my question I want to share two stories with you guys.

 

 

Storytime 1;

[hide]Before Runescape I played alot of other MMORPG's; if there was a "new" game out there I was trying it out. One of the games I played ran on Sun-Java (Very similar to Habbo Hotel). I remember hearing about this program you could run along side of the game that would allow you to read all of the server/client side information going on behind the scenes. The program was offered on shady sites similar to the botting forums runescape struggles with but being curious about how games worked I still checked it out. At the time I got ahold of the program people were using it to hack the game so that they could do stupid but harmless things like walking in the air or being able to go through walls.

 

I remember somebody had figured out a way to trick the game on the clientside to make a "burnt lobster" (ill use RS items to make it easier to understand) look like a "partyhat". Since this was only on the clientside and no real harm was being done to the actual game nobody was getting in trouble for it. I took the work they had done and made a bigger improvement to it so that you could make the "burnt lobster" into any rare/expensive item in the game (again, clientside so it was just a fake and only you could see it as the rare, everyone else still saw it as a burnt lobster). Doing that got me alot of credit amungst the others in that community and I got to talk to alot of the other dev's via AIM and MSN. One of the times we had a group chat going one of the other guys had figured out a new trick. He figured out how to temporarily glitch the SERVERside into thinking the "lobster" was really a "partyhat" too. This would let you trade the "burnt lobster" AS a "partyhat" to other players for their REAL rare items and then once they logged out and logged back in the item would turn back into the Burnt lobster and theyd realize the partyhat wasnt real. So being curious we all met up ingame with him and traded each other to see if it worked and it did (unfortunately). All of a sudden the harmless little glitches that I was used to doing turned into a potential scam tactic. He had given the script to all of us that were in the group chat to look at and thats where it went wrong.

 

I dont know what happened after that but I think one of the people shared it with a friend, and then they shared it with their friends and then before you know it the script was leaked on all of the forums. At first you could tell who was using it in their trades because theyd be selling a "partyhat" for "full rune". The offers were too good to be true and thats usually what gave it away. Soon though everyone had gotten ahold of the script probably out of frustration from getting scammed with it and the game developers not banning anybody for it. Now literally EVERY trade you made was a scam, there wasnt anybody actually doing a legit trade, it was all fakes. Eventually all the legit players quit out of anger and resentment towards the game developers for not doing anything. Then the game creators just shut the game down. I actually enjoyed playing that game and never meant to cause any harm to it, I just enjoyed the harmless little glitches like walking through walls and what not.

 

 

Now, this game was MUCH smaller than RS so it didnt take long for it to turn to chaos but I think sadly RS is turning in that direction. Whether it takes a few months or a year I think the issue at hand could get so out of control that Jagex will have a hard time taking care of it.[/hide]

 

 

Storytime 2;

[hide]Another game was Maplestory as im sure a handful of you have played. This game ran into a much bigger problem where people were able to hack the game and force all of the monsters in the area into a 1x1 square and then multi-attack them in order to train from a distance. Since they were farcasting essentially they never took any damage and were able to train 24/7. Imagine being on a dustdevil task and having some kid there hacking the game so that all the dust devils were in one square and they were barraging them and ruining the game for everyone else, thats what happened. It got so out of control that the dev's of Maplestory did a mass ban, temporarily shut the game down, and then came back up with a new system that made sure you werent running any hacks before letting you into the game. This defeated the problem.[/hide]

 

So theres two different approaches to handling a similar problem. One is shutting the game down and giving up (or removing free trade and wildy), and one was a very aggressive approach to target the rule breakers and only the rule breakers.

 

Lets look at the solutions theyve used thus far;

-Banning botters

This only makes a difference in the short-term and doesnt do anything long-term.

 

-Updating the bot detection system

With every update here, the bot devs just make another update to counteract it.

 

-Removing free trade/wildy

This worked a little, it got rid of the gold farming bots but not the regular players from botting.

 

Jagex needs a different tactic with combating the bots. The Removal of Free Trade DID work but it hurt the rest of the scaper community. They need methods that will remove the bots without hurting the rest of us.

 

Other Solutions (things ive seen around the other threads);

 

-Add less grind to the game.

This would give the regular players less reason to bot as there would be fun and more rewarding methods of training.

 

-Test/scan for injection EVERY time a person logs in.

This would get rid of a TON of the bots since alot of them run on injection (I think they use injection still)

 

-Continue with the bot hunts.

Its a decent way to combat the popular botting spots.

 

-Add more untradeables to the game

If people needed gold less and needed to just play the game to acquire untradeable content, it would defeat the need for rwt sites selling so much gold.

 

 

 

Whats everyones thoughts? Obviously Jagex makes way too much money to consider shutting the game down but where do we go from here? We need methods other than banning bots and updating the random events and other botting detections they have in place now.

 

How do we remove the need for gold.

How do we remove the grinding, making the need for bots to do tedious tasks obsolete.

Wheres the happy median between having free trade and wildy and NOT having free trade and wildy?

 

All questions We and Jagex need to look into. Rather than complaining and turning on Jagex we need to suggest solutions; if they dont take any of the suggestions THEN complain about it. Spend more time in the Suggestions section of these forums rather than the RANTS section.

[jijilentosmi]

Actually if the test for injection thing really works, that would be a perfect solution.

[Nash]

They apparently do the injection test on people suspected for botting as part of their "bot detection" system but im not sure if thats just a rumor or not. If they do already do that why not just run the test every time somebody logs in right?

[Monky]

Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

 

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.

[Sly_Wizard]

Make Runescape downloadable, which would also include a bot detection system.

[BabyPunchers]

Make Runescape downloadable, which would also include a bot detection system.

 

This.

 

So much this.

 

This.

 

If they make the game downloadable and, because of that, make a better bot detection system, then I'll sure as hell download it.

 

Too bad it will never happen as Jagex really wants Runescape to be accessible to everyone. :cry:

[Nash]

Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

 

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.

 

 

The bots inject their client into the games actual java coding. So if you do tests to look for that injection it will flag them and not let them in. Also tests while they play would be good since you do raise an interesting point. I dont know how it would effect the lags on the servers, since it would only test a fraction of the people online at any one time, not all at once.

[Monky]

Thanks for clearing that up Nash. Perhaps, If Jagex were to impliment this testing in the loading of a random event? or just everytime there is a load screen. Im sure the community would rather wait half a second more on loading screens than wait 10 mins more finding a bot free world.

[Stev]

Im not accustom to the injection thing your on about. But, wouldnt botter be able to Log in>Gets tested for this program>Passes test>Launches program? lol...

 

Surely they would have to run this test every so ofter, and it would lag the servers like crazy.

 

 

The bots inject their client into the games actual java coding. So if you do tests to look for that injection it will flag them and not let them in. Also tests while they play would be good since you do raise an interesting point. I dont know how it would effect the lags on the servers, since it would only test a fraction of the people online at any one time, not all at once.

Not exactly how bots work.

 

Even if they did scan for bot software, that's extremely easy to avoid.

 

To the idea about making the game downloadable and then adding a bot detection system, it would be just as easy, if not more, to bypass as Punkbuster/Hackshield's anti-cheat for other games. We can have a bypass for those -10 minutes after they've done an update. Now, I highly doubt Jagex's bot detection systems will even near those of Punkbuster/Hackshield. C'mon now... It's Jagex.

[NoHopeLeft]

Why hasn't Jagex tried replacing random events with Captchas yet?

[Stev]

There's already software that can tackle difficult captchas. I also doubt they'd go about this method as some people with various disabilities can struggle with them.

[Zerker_Jane]

You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

[Brood_Abyss]

Why hasn't Jagex tried replacing random events with Captchas yet?

 

I remember they tried this with the 'fatigue' system... You got tired and had to rest at a bed (and later they added sleeping bags), and when you rested you had to pass a captcha. I don't remember why they ended up removing it, seemed like a good idea (with sleeping bags not the beds, that was annoying), then again, I'm sure it wouldn't take long before they could code around that too.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: My memory is foggy since this was so long ago, but upon further thought I think it was removed with the release of RS2 and replaced with the current random events. Which, IMO, seem to be much less effective.

[langer]

You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

 

sadly...this.

[Kaida23]

You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

I'm sure they do, but they haven't yet figured out a way to do it while still collecting membership fees from them.

[Nanaboy]

Until they get that update where they ban them, and then sell the account back to the owner I don't see them doing anything else...

[n64jive]

1. I think the whole buy-back thing was a hoax in an attempt to catch botters on their old accounts making claims for their new accounts (the system was just [developmentally delayed]ed, and I haven't heard of hardly anyone being able to buy back their banned accounts)

 

2. Bots use client injection because they can. If Jagex started banning all injection, 100%, then bot clients would simply use reflection. It wouldn't be as versatile, but it would work just fine.

 

When you create a point in click game that is based on repetition, then you are going to run into a botting problem. It's just how things are, it's not the worst thing in the world (like so many on this forum make it out to be) and it's definitely not worth ruining the game for (like Jagex has tried in the past).

 

With that said, there probably needs to be something done about the bots that are a little out of control (sorce garden, frost dragons, etc). Surely Jagex could hire 3-5 interns and let them go to town on fixing this problem...

[Brood_Abyss]

Surely Jagex could hire 3-5 interns and let them go to town on fixing this problem...

 

Finally someone who thinks like I do... Seems like the cheapest and most effective way of removing bots...

 

That or personally I'd spend 4-5 hours a week bot-banning in exchange for free membership, wouldn't be hard to implement either imo. Put a system in place that for x amounts of bans (including of course a successful ban to a misreport ratio) gets free membership for a month. I'm sure they'd have more people offering to help then they could handle.

[captianant]

Running with the idea of a captcha, it would exponentially increase the difficulty of scanning and interpreting the captcha if the letter each moved and rotated (along the y or z axis for example) in a word. I've worked with a prof at my university with that sort of software (computational linguistics stuff - getting computers to understand written language) and at the research level it's still tough to get a program to have even a 40% success rate, much less be even close with the interpretation. And it wouldn't even have to be that bad, just anytime you're leaving a random event you have to do one of those captchas. Your time has already been intruded upon by the random, so what's an extra 5 seconds going to be for the honest user?

 

It's frustrating to see (what appears to be) such a one-dimensional approach taken by jamflex when there's an entire world of possibilities that they haven't tapped yet because they're too busy pushing out updates that have the shoddiest bug and stress testing this side of the galactic plane

[elucin8er]

You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

I'm sure they do, but they haven't yet figured out a way to do it while still collecting membership fees from them.

 

This, now /endthread.

 

The new money loving Jagex won't remove bots if it means less money, end of story. It's clear they don't give two [cabbage]s about the quality of the game, as long as they are getting paid. Sad really.

[Nash]

If you think thats true then find a way for them to remove bots and still profit from it. Im definately brainstorming

[Asmodeus]

Thing is that in Jagexs point of view, 250,000 online players look a lot better than 75,000. And not to mention the income from p2p bots. I'm sure Jagex could do something to bots but they just wont.

 

And in p2p, more effort is put into bot-problems than f2p. After all, ultimate goal is to get all free players buy membership. Everything stays the same in f2p but members can train alot easier. Ie mining lrc or wc ivies etc. Like said, it's all about the money. And truth is, there is no way to exterminate bots yet gain profit from it. If Jagex would take their thumbs out of their asses and do something, maybe RuneScape would survive few years more. Right now, unlikely.

 

1½ years max and there is no more RuneScape. Sorry about my grammar :oops:

[Wessan]

You're assuming Jagex wants to end the bot problem.

I'm sure they do, but they haven't yet figured out a way to do it while still collecting membership fees from them.

 

This, now /endthread.

 

The new money loving Jagex won't remove bots if it means less money, end of story. It's clear they don't give two [cabbage]s about the quality of the game, as long as they are getting paid. Sad really.

 

One could only hope that they want to make as much money at the moment in order to be able to invest in something that can actually stop the bots, but I dont think so.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

You know something, you've got the right idea. Getting rid of the grindfest, reducing the point of GP, and revisiting the Wilderness & Free Trade would be a few things that could be done to fix the botting problem.

 

Now, I've got an idea that I'm still working the kinks out of, which involves making GP useful only to buy middle-tier equipment, or making us buy more critical things (reagents for potions, seconds for familiars) at a higher price. Also, removing or modifying grind-prone skills is harder than anyone could fathom, while keeping them fun and/or rewarding.

 

I'm not confident that any technological approach would help at this point, since it's not just bots that are the major issue. But, this is probably the first thread I've seen in years that's on the right track.

 

...and coincidentally has a similar idea to mine. :D

[Nash]

Ive always wondered what would happen if jagex gave higher lvls literally a new land to play on kind of like what blizzard does with wow on every expansion. It would allow for the higher lvls to train and get faster xp rates while somewhat seperated from the lower lvl players. But it would allow for jagex to remove the grind in a way since it would break it up that much more.

 

 

Also when you finish your idea and make a suggestion thread for it let me know and ill support it :thumbsup: