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Urza285

Understanding How Bots Work

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Many players stance towards Jagex progress in the game in relation towards working together wholly to stop bots has been a big issue rose up in every Runescape community. Whether or not Jagex should halt their actual content update and put 110% effort into their bot stopping research is what a good portion of the community seems to be screaming for out of Jagex. The issue I see is that Jagex understands that there will always be botters in a way most players do not. I fail to believe that Jagex isn't looking for ways to deal with these abusive programs and players, though, but in doing so effectively its going to take some time and probably some cooperation that most players will not be willing to cooperate in and I'll explain that later. To give you an understanding of what a bot looks for in the game and use let me give you a few variables:

 

Variable #1: The game uses a coordinate system exactly the same to how clue scrolls work and every square on the map has a grid number. If you've played Runescape since the early days of RSC then you would definitely know that the jmods back in the day had a system available only to them where they could "teleport" to any location on the world map simply by entering a command phrase and the coordinates.

 

Variable #2: Each and every piece of content has a code number. That means a monkfish, the chair in the bank, your house altar, the grand exchange clerk, and the walls of the bank all have codes. What bots use in their programs are player side model identifiers using the model numbers. An example of how Jagex accidentally messed up botters with models and their numbers was during an update when they changed the models of the operating winch to go down into the living rock caverns. Bot programs can look up and render the models and know where to click by looking them up by their model numbers. Due to Jagex either changing this particular model bots got caught up in a misunderstanding of how to handle that particular model.

 

Variable #3: Everything that a bot needs is literally sent to your computer and stored in an encrypted file that is updated every time Jagex updates their servers. Because of this it makes it much easier for bot makers to correct their programs after updates. The only thing Jagex has done for this is threaten to use legal action through patents and claims of intellectual property, but this does little to actually prevent the bot makers from distributing their program. Jagex pay tear down sites, but in reality theyll just create another and keep distributing.

 

The real issue to botting, being the head of the beast, is really that Jagex has made runescape information mostly player side due to it being a browser-based game. So if Jagex wanted to proverbially cut the head off the beast it wouldnt be to take legal action against bot makers. That would be similar to cutting off the hydras heads, but not burning the stumps. Jagex needs to burn the stumps of the wound by making their game completely server side. To further boost their protection they could implement something similar to how World of Warcraft monitors bot usage. WoW uses a program called Warden that scans your computer for spyware programs (bot programs classify as spyware). I suppose Jagex could work on creating a way for players to access server side information through a client that has such a program running alongside it.

 

An issue Ive noticed the community has with handling this problem is that more often than not players do more complaining on Jagex way of handling the situation. Instead I believe we should be trying to work together to find a better foothold on how to help the community to understand how Jagex should be trying to correct the issue. By that I mean how Jagex could be controlling the variables mentioned. If we could get the community to understand how the bots work then we would at the very least have a legitimate reason to being angry with Jagex for not upping the ante on handling the botting issue. Should Jagex actually take in what Ive said here and gave players the option to play on a closed client I would be supportive and join in using it.

 

If anyone who is knowledgeable in creating these types of anti-botting software and Jagex capabilities to replicating their own feel free to contribute to the conversation.




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Last I heard lots of bots were getting around Warden, but I'm not that into WoW so I don't really know.


PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Last I heard lots of bots were getting around Warden, but I'm not that into WoW so I don't really know.

Yeah I think when doing some research I found some stuff hinting at that. But realistically I think Jagex would be taking a real load off of their shoulders by protecting their "assets" and attempts at botting by removing the ability of programers to have access to their models. I mean literally every model in the game has a code and some bots go as far as letting their users show the model wire frames.




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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.


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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.

The masses aren't the main problem. It's the gold farming companies that have thousands of bots running at any given time. They aren't worried about how "safe" it is to bot. They are only worried about their profits.


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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.

The masses aren't the main problem. It's the gold farming companies that have thousands of bots running at any given time. They aren't worried about how "safe" it is to bot. They are only worried about their profits.

If their programs break every update, they will have a much more difficult time obtaining whatever material they need to make a profit. Also, catching every one of their accounts and every account that has ever interacted with their accounts will be a major setback.


99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.

Yeah profiling would be good. I mean they could study them and pretty much figure out what I've already stated. Matter of fact its so simple that I wouldn't be surprised if Jagex is working on a way to handle the botting programs from a server side approach. This is why I have a hard time watching the community rant about it because its not very hard to see the bot programs approach and Jagex has to have something going on, but they just aren't unveiling it yet or its not quite finished.




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I can't see them taking away their most accessible and sellable point to stop a problem that, to the average observer, they simply don't need to worry about to stay afloat. They don't need to protect their assets, because they're not in any direct danger. As aggravating it might be to the legitimate user like us, we're likely not going to quit over it. As a customer I want them to take responsibility, but I doubt it will happen. It actually has more of a negative impact on me personally to ponder good ideas like Urza or Seesall presents, knowing they won't happen, than rampant botting actually does.


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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.

The masses aren't the main problem. It's the gold farming companies that have thousands of bots running at any given time. They aren't worried about how "safe" it is to bot. They are only worried about their profits.

If their programs break every update, they will have a much more difficult time obtaining whatever material they need to make a profit. Also, catching every one of their accounts and every account that has ever interacted with their accounts will be a major setback.

Jagex at one point in the past IP banned everyone coming from Singapore due to them not respecting internet laws and a lot of credit fraud and hacking's were coming from that location. Maybe they could do this to those places?




Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]

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The simple solution is that Jagex needs to introduce bot-breaking updates frequently.

They can:

1. Download and use available botting programs to profile them

2. Develop new content and observe how the bots react.

3. Roll out new content days after a server reset and get all botters in one fell swoop.

4. Rinse and repeat, until the masses know it is no longer safe to bot.

The masses aren't the main problem. It's the gold farming companies that have thousands of bots running at any given time. They aren't worried about how "safe" it is to bot. They are only worried about their profits.

If their programs break every update, they will have a much more difficult time obtaining whatever material they need to make a profit. Also, catching every one of their accounts and every account that has ever interacted with their accounts will be a major setback.

Jagex at one point in the past IP banned everyone coming from Singapore due to them not respecting internet laws and a lot of credit fraud and hacking's were coming from that location. Maybe they could do this to those places?

 

Problem being that there are legitimate players from those places, which is why they did that in the past, and have since stopped.

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A few years ago I might believe Jagex wanted bots gone, but now it seems like they're just trying to look "in control" while they rake in the money coming from bots buying members.


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I was in the Zybez ventrilo out of boredom yesterday, around about 12 people in a channel 10 of those were talking about what bot they use.. naming bot sites, why those bots are good to their friends suggesting scripts they should use, new players and some really experienced who had gotten 99s with them.

 

I just think the state of play is a joke now, people openly talk about it in a public chat I didn't speak back because I was just in there to see what people talked about RuneScape-wise now.


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Anti-bot software is not the way to go. All anti-cheat programs are very easy to bypass, including Warden, PunkBuster, Hackshield, etc. I know this because I used to write hacks/bypasses for several online games for various online companies. Now, I doubt Jagex's anti-cheat could come up with anything remotely close to that of WoW, Battlefield, and many more.

 

Not all bots use the coordinate system or even object IDs; Mainly those that are not written in Java. It is still quite simple to retrieve/send the information/location without use of these things. If Jagex did drastically change their game to use different methods, it would simply force the bot makers to change theirs... Which I highly doubt would take long (Since, as I said, some bots are already being developed that don't even use that system ;)). And then once they did, we're back at square one.

 

Now, as to why the bots crash after updates, I'm not sure because I haven't used Java in an extremely long time. I don't know why the bot developers don't simply have their bots automatically update after each game update. Hell, once we wrote a hack, if there was a game update it updated itself... But then again different languages = different capabilities I guess. I don't assume it would be too hard.

 

The masses aren't the main problem. It's the gold farming companies that have thousands of bots running at any given time. They aren't worried about how "safe" it is to bot. They are only worried about their profits.

 

This.


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The easiest way to temporarily stop bots would be every couple of days update their client with different ID numbers for objects, eg, just add a number '1' to the end of the object, or a number '4', quite simple, although there are bots that use "names" instead of "numbers" eg; open "Door" or eat "Lobster", these would be harder to stop.

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I always thought it'd be funny if a group like lulzsec started taking payments on the side from developers to DDOS and shut down gold farming websites. It would not only shut the websites down, but it would force ISPs like GoDaddy to better control who they accept as customers, because otherwise it means datarape on their servers on a constant basis.

 

What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.


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Yeah I think when doing some research I found some stuff hinting at that. But realistically I think Jagex would be taking a real load off of their shoulders by protecting their "assets" and attempts at botting by removing the ability of programers to have access to their models. I mean literally every model in the game has a code and some bots go as far as letting their users show the model wire frames.

It's java, the easiest language to reverse engineer. Nothing Jagex can do about that.


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

But isn't edited rs client illegal ?

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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

But isn't edited rs client illegal ?

They are using their own client and embedding RuneScape, which sends/retrieves information from the RuneScape applet as well as interacts with it. ;). It's no different then using Google Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, or SwiftKit to play. They are editing information on their own computers in their own clients. The same reason hacking online games is legal.

 

While it against Jagex's rules (Due to software sending/interacting with the RuneScape applet), there is nothing illegal or unlawful being done.


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

You should read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about bots/scripts, I said gold farmers. Gold farming is illegal, no matter which way you look at it.

 

But since you brought up bots/scripts, I'd support shutting those down via illegal methods as well. What can I say, my sense of justice is closer to Rorschach than Captain America.


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

You should read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about bots/scripts, I said gold farmers. Gold farming is illegal, no matter which way you look at it.

 

But since you brought up bots/scripts, I'd support shutting those down via illegal methods as well. What can I say, my sense of justice is closer to Rorschach than Captain America.

I'm curious as to where you got your information as to gold farming being illegal. The only country that I can think of to have openly banned gold farming being China. While it is against almost every game's ToS/EULA, it is not a criminal offense and can very rarely hold in court.

 

The only problem I have seen any country have with collecting/selling of virtual goods, is whether it's to be taxable or not... Not whether it is illegal or not.


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

You should read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about bots/scripts, I said gold farmers. Gold farming is illegal, no matter which way you look at it.

 

But since you brought up bots/scripts, I'd support shutting those down via illegal methods as well. What can I say, my sense of justice is closer to Rorschach than Captain America.

I'm curious as to where you got your information as to gold farming being illegal. The only country that I can think of to have openly banned gold farming being China. While it is against almost every game's ToS/EULA, it is not a criminal offense and can very rarely hold in court.

 

The only problem I have seen any country have with collecting/selling of virtual goods, is whether it's to be taxable or not... Not whether it is illegal or not.

They are selling stuff that is the right of a company and ruining the product of the company (the product = runescape) which causes that jagex loses costumers. How is that not illegal? Just because it is virtually gold? Also I don't believe that you have gone through the laws of every country to see if it is not illegal. It could be legal in some country's and illegal in some other country's.

 

Also about China, that is where probably the most gold farming is coming from.


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The real issue to botting, being the head of the beast, is really that Jagex has made runescape information mostly player side due to it being a browser-based game. So if Jagex wanted to proverbially cut the head off the beast it wouldn't be to take legal action against bot makers. That would be similar to cutting off the hydras heads, but not burning the stumps. Jagex needs to "burn the stumps of the wound" by making their game completely server side. To further boost their protection they could implement something similar to how World of Warcraft monitors bot usage. WoW uses a program called "Warden" that scans your computer for spyware programs (bot programs classify as spyware). I suppose Jagex could work on creating a way for players to access server side information through a client that has such a program running alongside it.

 

Making the game completely server side? You have to send some information to the client...and it's unlikely that this could be done via Java anytime soon. (Maybe with Java 8 but that's way off.)

 

You're right when you say that it's not enough to simply pursue legal avenues to end bot makers, but the middle part is where you lost me. If you really want to end the game of bots, it's time to change how the game is played, and why elements of it are macroed/used for RWT so heavily.

What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

You should read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about bots/scripts, I said gold farmers. Gold farming is illegal, no matter which way you look at it.

 

But since you brought up bots/scripts, I'd support shutting those down via illegal methods as well. What can I say, my sense of justice is closer to Rorschach than Captain America.

I'm curious as to where you got your information as to gold farming being illegal. The only country that I can think of to have openly banned gold farming being China. While it is against almost every game's ToS/EULA, it is not a criminal offense and can very rarely hold in court.

 

The only problem I have seen any country have with collecting/selling of virtual goods, is whether it's to be taxable or not... Not whether it is illegal or not.

They are selling stuff that is the right of a company and ruining the product of the company (the product = runescape) which causes that jagex loses costumers. How is that not illegal? Just because it is virtually gold? Also I don't believe that you have gone through the laws of every country to see if it is not illegal. It could be legal in some country's and illegal in some other country's.

 

Also about China, that is where probably the most gold farming is coming from.

 

Is selling virtual gold a violation of (most) MMO and RPG games' ToS? You bet it is.

Is it a violation of a particular law? I'd be willing to say, more times than not, it would be, considering the user of the account doesn't own it, doesn't have rights to the account, or rights to what is on the account. You can't sell what you don't own.

 

Is making a macro script a violation of (most) MMO and RPG games' ToS? I've yet to find one that openly allows it.

Is it a violation of a particular law? There's no law in and of itself expressly forbidding bots being made, but other types of charges (defamation, violation of contract, etc) can be used to litigate against this. But, more or less, those are more expensive, and not typically worth the headache.


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What are the gold farmers gonna do, sue? "YOU STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY" Who cares what some trashbag company in Beijing thinks? This'll be the few times I'd be happy our legal system protects corporate interests.

Only botting and selling bots/scripts is not illegal. The only thing Jagex can do is like they did to RS Bot... Make it change it's name. Otherwise, botting is completely legal (Although against Jagex's rules).

 

You should read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about bots/scripts, I said gold farmers. Gold farming is illegal, no matter which way you look at it.

 

But since you brought up bots/scripts, I'd support shutting those down via illegal methods as well. What can I say, my sense of justice is closer to Rorschach than Captain America.

I'm curious as to where you got your information as to gold farming being illegal. The only country that I can think of to have openly banned gold farming being China. While it is against almost every game's ToS/EULA, it is not a criminal offense and can very rarely hold in court.

 

The only problem I have seen any country have with collecting/selling of virtual goods, is whether it's to be taxable or not... Not whether it is illegal or not.

They are selling stuff that is the right of a company and ruining the product of the company (the product = runescape) which causes that jagex loses costumers. How is that not illegal? Just because it is virtually gold? Also I don't believe that you have gone through the laws of every country to see if it is not illegal. It could be legal in some country's and illegal in some other country's.

 

Also about China, that is where probably the most gold farming is coming from.

I could easily rebuttal the idea of them selling something that is owned by another company by simply saying that they are instead selling their time and their resources in obtaining such items/gold. They are not costing Jagex money at all. They are not losing Jagex customers. It's getting to the point where I believe bots make up more of the RuneScape population then legit players. These bots and bot sites are filling Jagex's wallets.

 

Bots greatly outnumber players almost everywhere in RuneScape. Soul Wars? Probably about 80% of them are bots, depending on the world. GWD? The amount of avansie bots down there is ridiculous. Chaos tunnels? Well, you can see in a recent picture in the stickied thread that he's out numbered 10+ to 1. Most skilling locations? Bots. Most PvM resource locations (Such as blue dragons)? Bots. I would assume, IMO, that for every legit player, there is 1 to 2 bots somewhere else.

 

I would also encourage you to find one major country, with exception to China, in which gold farming is illegal and can be considered a criminal offense.

 

Making the game completely server side? You have to send some information to the client...and it's unlikely that this could be done via Java anytime soon. (Maybe with Java 8 but that's way off.)

 

Yep. And if they did make nearly everything server sided, it'd take but a few days/weeks tops until a new bot method was used... Seeing as how there's already other methods being used.


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The game is dying because of this. Goals are meaningless because every achievement has been oversaturated by individuals playing unfairly. When we reach a point where we have no ambition to improve our character (the entire basis of RPG gameplay at its core) we might as well not play at all.

 

 

We all recall ~4 years ago where we had the bot oppression where certain areas were swarming with identical level 3 characters doing mundane tasks and following simple inputs in a repeated manner. These were easy to spot and ban accordingly. Now people don't even try to hide it, they bot on their mains because they don't fear the consequences. With enough training one because adept at spotting bots because of certain behaviours they display along with the obvious silent treatment. It doesn't matter where I go now, there are bots. Even way out in the desert near Nardah collecting desert goat horns. I report upwards of 50 a day, but is it really doing any good? Not when most of the community just turns a blind eye and allow it to continue because of an ill-placed fear of economical repercussion. I feel cold and alone, being treated as a paranoid elitist when I implore that we punish those obviously breaking the rules in a most heinous manner.


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