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Dutch court ruling on kids forcing another to hand over RS goods


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#41
K4ylan
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Chrome translation of OP's link


#42
The Dark Lord
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edit: nevermind, did miss something.

I find it sick that you would go as far as threathen someone with a knife for runescape goods...


Runescape is serious [cabbage].
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#43
Zaaps1
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Save the kids.

Remove free trade.

#44
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Regardless of whether or not anything was "stolen" (alluding to the argument that Jagex still owns it), threatening someone with a knife is enough to do something about it IMO.
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#45
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The points are one in the same. If my work in runescape has value, whats stopping me from suing Jagex for banning me. Yes they own my account and my money but they dont own the work I put into it that they stole.

Its a valid argument too btw, and would hold up in a court

Absolute rubbish. You don't work in runescape you're paying for the entertainment value under licence as Omali quite correctly stated on page 1. You don't own anything in the game or the effort that goes into it. You're getting your money's worth from the actual playing of the game. They can withdraw this at any time, just like any company can under software licence. Probably in their terms and conditions if you can be arsed reading it. If they were that stupid all and sundry would be taking them to court.


Well obviously that is how things are now. If however it is determined in courts that your work in runescape DOES have value then everything I said does apply. That was the assumption made when the post was written, not quoting that is just straw manning me

#46
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All because of free trade.

#47
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All because of free trade.


Like free trade had anything to do with it. They couldve stole his account at knife point and transfered 50k for 2 weeks. If anything free trade saved the kids account!

#48
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Save the kids.

Remove free trade.

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On topic, this sort of thing is hardly new (well, maybe to RS). Every so often there's another story of somebody who was robbed of, or stole, some item from one MMO or another. The one I remember most was when some guy in Asia (possibly Korea but don't quote me) hacked his friend's account and sold off a rare in-game sword and the guy who was hacked killed him over it.

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#49
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The points are one in the same. If my work in runescape has value, whats stopping me from suing Jagex for banning me. Yes they own my account and my money but they dont own the work I put into it that they stole.

Its a valid argument too btw, and would hold up in a court

Absolute rubbish. You don't work in runescape you're paying for the entertainment value under licence as Omali quite correctly stated on page 1. You don't own anything in the game or the effort that goes into it. You're getting your money's worth from the actual playing of the game. They can withdraw this at any time, just like any company can under software licence. Probably in their terms and conditions if you can be arsed reading it. If they were that stupid all and sundry would be taking them to court.


Well obviously that is how things are now. If however it is determined in courts that your work in runescape DOES have value then everything I said does apply. That was the assumption made when the post was written, not quoting that is just straw manning me


No that's not what you said at all. You're claiming your statement would hold up in court as a matter of fact. It doesn't. Complete fallacy.

The quoting is to show where the flaws in your point lie, not for you to hide behind the age old defence of straw man. Don't post garbage if you don't like being told it's garbage.

#50
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Regarding the arguments about whether Jagex own the work put into your account, when you join RS you agree to a legally binding contract stating that:

(From http://www.runescape.../terms/terms.ws)

If, acting reasonably, we consider that our Terms and Conditions have or may have been breached, or that there has been fraudulent, unlawful or abusive activity, or that it is necessary in order to prevent or stop any harm or damage to us, to any Jagex Product, to other players or the general public, we may Stop (as defined above) any or all accounts of Jagex Products which we think are connected with the offender subject to such right of appeal as is specified on our website and/or restrict access to or delete virtual currency or anything acquired by means of virtual currency. Such actions may result in loss of membership credit and/or loss of real money paid as part of any item / account trading or other prohibited transaction.

To prevent or remedy breach of our Terms and Conditions or any harm or damage to us, to any Jagex Product or to other players or the general public , we may automatically or manually monitor, censor (including rejection or removal of any content) and/or record public or private chat or other activities in any Jagex Product.


Mischief in relation to data
(1.1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully

(a) destroys or alters data;

(b) renders data meaningless, useless or ineffective;

© obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use of data; or

(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use of data or denies access to data to any person who is entitled to access thereto.


Surely that should have more parameters, otherwise anyone who alters any data at all would be committing a crime, regardless of whether they created/owned it or not.

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#51
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Here's what they should be charged for: threatening someone with a knife, virtual items at stake or no.
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#52
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Regarding the arguments about whether Jagex own the work put into your account, when you join RS you agree to a legally binding contract stating that:

(From http://www.runescape.../terms/terms.ws)

If, acting reasonably, we consider that our Terms and Conditions have or may have been breached, or that there has been fraudulent, unlawful or abusive activity, or that it is necessary in order to prevent or stop any harm or damage to us, to any Jagex Product, to other players or the general public, we may Stop (as defined above) any or all accounts of Jagex Products which we think are connected with the offender subject to such right of appeal as is specified on our website and/or restrict access to or delete virtual currency or anything acquired by means of virtual currency. Such actions may result in loss of membership credit and/or loss of real money paid as part of any item / account trading or other prohibited transaction.

To prevent or remedy breach of our Terms and Conditions or any harm or damage to us, to any Jagex Product or to other players or the general public , we may automatically or manually monitor, censor (including rejection or removal of any content) and/or record public or private chat or other activities in any Jagex Product.


Mischief in relation to data
(1.1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully

(a) destroys or alters data;

(b) renders data meaningless, useless or ineffective;

© obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use of data; or

(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use of data or denies access to data to any person who is entitled to access thereto.


Surely that should have more parameters, otherwise anyone who alters any data at all would be committing a crime, regardless of whether they created/owned it or not.


It's up to enforcement. If someone didn't grant you access to edit or change that data (really if you edited the source code at a home computer for personal use, quite frankly I don't think anyone would notice or even care). That being said, I'm sure it's only used for when the mens rea has malicious intent, which shown in this case, there was some intended.

j0xPu5R.png


#53
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Pretty apparent that they sought to apply theft charges because they generally carry heavier sentencing.

For example:
Possible Penalties for Armed Robbery

Jail time of up to 15 years
Fines of up to $20,000

Penalties for assault with a deadly weapon (In the state of Texas):
Fines up to $4,000
Jail sentence up to one year.

Bare in mind these are for first offenders.
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#54
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Don't forget we're talking about minors here. They generally get lighter sentences than adults.

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#55
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On topic, this sort of thing is hardly new (well, maybe to RS). Every so often there's another story of somebody who was robbed of, or stole, some item from one MMO or another. The one I remember most was when some guy in Asia (possibly Korea but don't quote me) hacked his friend's account and sold off a rare in-game sword and the guy who was hacked killed him over it.


Way of samurai
SWAG

Mayn U wanna be like me but U can't be me cuz U ain't got ma swagga on.

#56
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The part with the knife seems to be getting downplayed a little...
O.O

#57
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The part with the knife seems to be getting downplayed a little...



Thats what i was thinking.. o_O

and seriously, over a h'ween and an amulet?


No offense to any f2p'ers (<3 you guys, you make rs go 'round) but getting money for a h'ween, with say, 80's combat skills, you could make the money for that in a month easy, and that's not including even merching! I know a few people who used to kill drags in chaos tunnels for cash, @ 2m a day, you could get a h'ween in 2 months. Also, there is revs, which i have heard (never tried them myself) are up to 6m an hour. figure 20m a day, you could get one in a week.

It's just sad to see how much people value a couple of pixels over someone elses life :| Maybe the parents should be dragged into this for lack of parenting? (yes, i know it's not always the parents fault, but wow..)

I mean, seriously.. if someone needed an item *that bad* they should just ask people for help getting it. Right now i'm working on getting a friend a santa as a surprise, as she was hacked (legit hacked, i've known her for 8 years.) and hers was stolen, along with everything else on her acc. There are plenty of people on rs that will help another player if the ask nicely (not begging for phr33 st00f pl0x)

I remember years ago on rsc, the first time i died, and i was devastated. I hadn't fully grasped the whole banking concept (i was like, 14 at the time, first time playing an online mmo) A guy, who i'm just gonna call "Yamaha" took me under his wing and helped me get going again. Showed me where/how to bank effectively, what i should kill to get my money back fastest, just a bunch of little things. Altho i have lost contact with that player for almost 9 years, his impression was great on me. If some lower level player is trying to save up tokkul for a fury, i have no issue partly killing some tzhaar and letting them get the drops so they can get the onyx faster.



So in the end i have this to say:

Whether the item is "jagex's" or "yours" or "someone elses," it doesn't really matter. If you care more about a couple pixels than your friends life, you need help.
Click below to see my siggy! :D





#58
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The part with the knife seems to be getting downplayed a little...



Thats what i was thinking.. o_O

and seriously, over a h'ween and an amulet?


No offense to any f2p'ers (<3 you guys, you make rs go 'round) but getting money for a h'ween, with say, 80's combat skills, you could make the money for that in a month easy, and that's not including even merching! I know a few people who used to kill drags in chaos tunnels for cash, @ 2m a day, you could get a h'ween in 2 months. Also, there is revs, which i have heard (never tried them myself) are up to 6m an hour. figure 20m a day, you could get one in a week.

It's just sad to see how much people value a couple of pixels over someone elses life :| Maybe the parents should be dragged into this for lack of parenting? (yes, i know it's not always the parents fault, but wow..)

I mean, seriously.. if someone needed an item *that bad* they should just ask people for help getting it. Right now i'm working on getting a friend a santa as a surprise, as she was hacked (legit hacked, i've known her for 8 years.) and hers was stolen, along with everything else on her acc. There are plenty of people on rs that will help another player if the ask nicely (not begging for phr33 st00f pl0x)

I remember years ago on rsc, the first time i died, and i was devastated. I hadn't fully grasped the whole banking concept (i was like, 14 at the time, first time playing an online mmo) A guy, who i'm just gonna call "Yamaha" took me under his wing and helped me get going again. Showed me where/how to bank effectively, what i should kill to get my money back fastest, just a bunch of little things. Altho i have lost contact with that player for almost 9 years, his impression was great on me. If some lower level player is trying to save up tokkul for a fury, i have no issue partly killing some tzhaar and letting them get the drops so they can get the onyx faster.



So in the end i have this to say:

Whether the item is "jagex's" or "yours" or "someone elses," it doesn't really matter. If you care more about a couple pixels than your friends life, you need help.


You'd make a good lawyer. Write a short reply to something containing your view on it, continue with a touching, but irrelevant, story and finally give your view on it again in a single sentence =D> =D> =D>
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#59
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You'd make a good lawyer. Write a short reply to something containing your view on it, continue with a touching, but irrelevant, story and finally give your view on it again in a single sentence =D> =D> =D>



Lol thanks :P Aunt/uncle + a couple of their kids (my cousins) are all lawyers, so I've been around it a bit.
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#60
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If runescape money has real value why isnt it taxable

Ring World - 1 Dutch Courts - 0


Hold the non existend phone there. doesn't the fact that RWT exists imply it has a monetary value? that would mean you could tax it.


>Implying that if I turned all my real world assets into runescape gold via gold buying that the IRS could take my runescape gold :lol:


If stretch that reasoning out a bit and assume that the government won't tax RS gold you could do some interesting stuff. If you use all your real world value to buy RS gold they won't be able to tax any of it. If you go even further you might be able to get the persons you're working for to pay you in GP and even avoid the dreaded income taxes.

I'm not entirely sure how this would play out since I haven't really thought it through, but it's a nice premise.

I'm currently reading the full text, found here.
I'm surprised at how accurate it is in the most important parts. Also a quote that caught my eye:

On march 9th 2011 a Red Partyhat was worth more than 1.1B. Expectations are that the are worth 2.15B at the end of 2011


I'm curious as to how accurate this estimate will turn out to be :huh:
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