12-Jul-2011 � Jadinko Lair

[Sly_Wizard]

13 blues in an hour? I must have terrible luck then. About a 2 hour trip and 1K sagaies or whatever they're called later.

 

 

i r disappoint.

 

(I will say that I'm pretty sure I can outkill any melee'er when I use extremes + void + rigour. But considering how much you lose doing it, it'd near pointless.)

[Jackie_Clay]

Two words.

 

LET DOWN.

I didn't expect much, so I wasn't let down.

 

Cynicism is a necessary evil when dealing with Jagex.

 

Pessimism serves me well when it comes to Jagex.

Yeah I let my optimism get the better of me this month when I read the BTS. Was looking forward to every update and so far two of three have been [cabbage]ty. Looking back I can't remember a seriously solid update since before February.

 

I also believe there is a possibility that Jagex will come back next week and buff the vine whip up. As it is currently, me being without 80+ dg, I still don't want to add the vine onto my whip no matter how far it drops due to it being a constant reminder that Jagex just [bleep]ed it up.

[gspbeetle]

It's not a bad addition when it hits a reasonable price. People pay 3.5m for +4m str bonus for a ring....

 

 

People pay 20M for +2 strength legs. Yet I see people at the G.E. whining that the whip vine is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE to justify the +2 strength bonus it gives. When I tell them that tassets are only +2 strength and are 20M they tell me it's totally different. When I tell them the vine whip doesn't even take up an equipment slot they tell me to STFU.

 

Substitute availability? Since there are no other item that gives str bonus in ring slot or leg slot, so hardcores (or the one who can afford expensive stuffs) have to wear those for high level monsters. Chances are they will still be in favour using chaotics than vine whip for high levels monsters.

[xpx]

(I will say that I'm pretty sure I can outkill any melee'er when I use extremes + void + rigour. But considering how much you lose doing it, it'd near pointless.)

Are you sure you can hit 710+ there? because unless you can do that, melee will still be faster(the accuracy is similar, but killing with range would be relatively more difficult as you'd need to maximize your distance). On task, range wouldn't have a chance. Just as reference, the normal, distance and jad bonus independent max hit of these would be lower than 400.

[Robert_R]

It's not a bad addition when it hits a reasonable price. People pay 3.5m for +4m str bonus for a ring....

 

 

People pay 20M for +2 strength legs. Yet I see people at the G.E. whining that the whip vine is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE to justify the +2 strength bonus it gives. When I tell them that tassets are only +2 strength and are 20M they tell me it's totally different. When I tell them the vine whip doesn't even take up an equipment slot they tell me to STFU.

 

Imagine for a second jagex never released dungeoneering, there was no chaotics and whip was still the best dps weapon, and this update was released. How much do you think the whip vine would go for then? Answer: A hell of a lot. People are willing to pay a lot for the bonus of zerker ring and bandos and such because they are undeniably the best choice for that equip slot. Because we have rapier and other chaotics which outclass the whip in every way, that's the only reason these things are seen as overpriced. Because anyone who cares enough to pay top dollar for a few str bonus would get a chaotic. So the whip vine is inferior and pretty much pointless, except for the niche market of lazy people who refuse to dunge but have money to blow.

Why is everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering suddenly lazy? I don't train it because I don't find it fun and I'll pay a lot for all the top gear for str bonus. But go ahead and generalise that everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering is just lazy. Over 1.5m people have 70 attack but only around 80k people have enough xp in dungoneering to get a rapier (and that's assuming everyone got a rapier first) that's a large amount of people that still use a whip. I guess that's just a lot of lazy people according to you. And it's not really blowing money if you can sell it back later... Sure it's inferior to chaotics but a lot of people just don't like training dungeoneering. You say they would get a chaotic like it doesn't require wasting time on a skill a lot of people don't want to train to 2m xp just to get a rapier.

[schmuall]

Over 1.5m people have 70 attack ... that's a large amount of people that still use a whip.

 

I think you forgot that whips are members only and god only knows how many of those 1.5m are actually active.

[Howlin0001]

What's a good set up to use to attack these?

[Soupy17]

It's not a bad addition when it hits a reasonable price. People pay 3.5m for +4m str bonus for a ring....

 

 

People pay 20M for +2 strength legs. Yet I see people at the G.E. whining that the whip vine is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE to justify the +2 strength bonus it gives. When I tell them that tassets are only +2 strength and are 20M they tell me it's totally different. When I tell them the vine whip doesn't even take up an equipment slot they tell me to STFU.

 

Imagine for a second jagex never released dungeoneering, there was no chaotics and whip was still the best dps weapon, and this update was released. How much do you think the whip vine would go for then? Answer: A hell of a lot. People are willing to pay a lot for the bonus of zerker ring and bandos and such because they are undeniably the best choice for that equip slot. Because we have rapier and other chaotics which outclass the whip in every way, that's the only reason these things are seen as overpriced. Because anyone who cares enough to pay top dollar for a few str bonus would get a chaotic. So the whip vine is inferior and pretty much pointless, except for the niche market of lazy people who refuse to dunge but have money to blow.

Why is everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering suddenly lazy? I don't train it because I don't find it fun and I'll pay a lot for all the top gear for str bonus. But go ahead and generalise that everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering is just lazy. Over 1.5m people have 70 attack but only around 80k people have enough xp in dungoneering to get a rapier (and that's assuming everyone got a rapier first) that's a large amount of people that still use a whip. I guess that's just a lot of lazy people according to you. And it's not really blowing money if you can sell it back later... Sure it's inferior to chaotics but a lot of people just don't like training dungeoneering. You say they would get a chaotic like it doesn't require wasting time on a skill a lot of people don't want to train to 2m xp just to get a rapier.

Whats the point of training if you dont want the best possible gear lol

[Crossed_Body]

Why is everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering suddenly lazy? I don't train it because I don't find it fun and I'll pay a lot for all the top gear for str bonus. But go ahead and generalise that everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering is just lazy. Over 1.5m people have 70 attack but only around 80k people have enough xp in dungoneering to get a rapier (and that's assuming everyone got a rapier first) that's a large amount of people that still use a whip. I guess that's just a lot of lazy people according to you. And it's not really blowing money if you can sell it back later... Sure it's inferior to chaotics but a lot of people just don't like training dungeoneering. You say they would get a chaotic like it doesn't require wasting time on a skill a lot of people don't want to train to 2m xp just to get a rapier.

You say that like 2m exp is a lot. Not being willing to spend 3-4 days training a skill to get the best weapons in game is being lazy. It's like having the remote barely out of hands reach and not being willing to get it to change the channel.

[Robert_R]

Why is everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering suddenly lazy? I don't train it because I don't find it fun and I'll pay a lot for all the top gear for str bonus. But go ahead and generalise that everyone who doesn't train dungeoneering is just lazy. Over 1.5m people have 70 attack but only around 80k people have enough xp in dungoneering to get a rapier (and that's assuming everyone got a rapier first) that's a large amount of people that still use a whip. I guess that's just a lot of lazy people according to you. And it's not really blowing money if you can sell it back later... Sure it's inferior to chaotics but a lot of people just don't like training dungeoneering. You say they would get a chaotic like it doesn't require wasting time on a skill a lot of people don't want to train to 2m xp just to get a rapier.

You say that like 2m exp is a lot. Not being willing to spend 3-4 days training a skill to get the best weapons in game is being lazy. It's like having the remote barely out of hands reach and not being willing to get it to change the channel.

I didn't mean it was a lot. I meant not everyone enjoys training dungeoneering enough to train it for 3-4 days. Why should i spend 3-4 days doing something I don't like when I'm fine using what I have. I'm not being lazy I just don't enjoy training dungeoneering. It's like not getting up to change the channel because you don't want to change the channel.

[Sy_Accursed]

I agree with robert, its not at all lazy.

Not EVERYONE has to like or want to do dg regardless of the benefit of it rewards and not EVERYONE is fussed about being the best.

Many are happy to trundle along doing this and that not making huge progress or being amazingly quick at anything but enjoying the game and having fun.

 

It's certainly inefficient, but inefficiency is not the same as being lazy.

[Dreezer]

I agree with robert, its not at all lazy.

Not EVERYONE has to like or want to do dg regardless of the benefit of it rewards and not EVERYONE is fussed about being the best.

Many are happy to trundle along doing this and that not making huge progress or being amazingly quick at anything but enjoying the game and having fun.

 

It's certainly inefficient, but inefficiency is not the same as being lazy.

 

the good old efficiency <-> fun debate

 

check my sig to know what i think about it :shades:

[xpx]

What's a good set up to use to attack these?

Either best defensive melee armor with healing familiar or defensive titan(iron or steel) with no overheads sometimes using soul split or full melee void(or karils on task) with melee prayer(letting them mage you). Ranging is also possible.

 

Best off task is full elite melee with dragon defender praying melee, on task FSH and Torva with dragon defender.

[Helm_Lardar]

I agree with robert, its not at all lazy.

Not EVERYONE has to like or want to do dg regardless of the benefit of it rewards and not EVERYONE is fussed about being the best.

Many are happy to trundle along doing this and that not making huge progress or being amazingly quick at anything but enjoying the game and having fun.

 

It's certainly inefficient, but inefficiency is not the same as being lazy.

^This.

 

I don't enjoy dunge and I really like my whip. Am I lazy for not grinding out the levels for a chaotic? No.

[BeNiceOk]

The whole dungeon/desire situation aside, I think Jagex made a big mistake regardless of the "content" required to obtain an item. Making the Whip Vine weaker stats than the Rapier (regardless of how you get it) despite having a higher stat requirement to wield it is like making Red D'hide have better stats than Black D'hide. Items should follow the order of Higher Requirements -> Better stats. (at least for the same attack speed / weapon type)

 

Balance wise, the game is great up to 60, then it get's dumb. There are plenty of "equal" weapon choices until you get past dragon weapons, as each weapon type has its own path. After that its Whip, Rapier, 99. Not much variety. [siderant] Smithing really just needs re-done to make weapons from 1-99, and let the whip/rapier/other weapons be specialty weapons for specials and certain circumstances.[/siderant]

 

If they wanted to keep people doing Dung, they should have just kept Whip at 70, better stat Chaotic Rapier at 75, better stat Vine Whip at 80, and better stat Warped Rapier at 85.

 

Edit:

In my perfect Runescape world:

- Requirements to wield, stats, and cost in time/gold should increase equal to one another.

 

Dungeon was to big a step too soon. Weapons should get better, and require more time to obtain as they increase in requirements. Not just one factor or another.

 

But hey, it's not my game, I only play it, sometimes. :P

[xpx]

to everyone, please remember that items being degradable is a major part of a weapons use. Something that costs nothing in the long run can't be expected to be equal to something that can cost up to 300k to use, every hour. Similarly to ranged weapons having a different cost to use, there is a balance between the whip and rapier aswell(although jagex values money at too high a rate). Wielding levels have never had much correlation to armor or weapon usefulness...

[divingduck]

Oh cute, just delete it all, including the relevant information. Welp, my point still stands that 80 vs 85 is not the argument in its whole.

[iNeppg]

Dunno how you guys managed to get the vine so quickly. I've already been killing these for 6 hours and the vine just wont drop lol.

[HunterDexter]

Neppq, it's just called being lucky, for one: it took me 2.7k kills for my first whip, my first dragon legs were last week (and according to the big pile of bones in my bank, I killed a lot of metal dragons, no really, a LOT). Don't despair, eventually, you'll get a drop. :)

[Articultural]

It's not a bad addition when it hits a reasonable price. People pay 3.5m for +4m str bonus for a ring....

 

 

People pay 20M for +2 strength legs. Yet I see people at the G.E. whining that the whip vine is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE to justify the +2 strength bonus it gives. When I tell them that tassets are only +2 strength and are 20M they tell me it's totally different. When I tell them the vine whip doesn't even take up an equipment slot they tell me to STFU.

 

Substitute availability? Since there are no other item that gives str bonus in ring slot or leg slot, so hardcores (or the one who can afford expensive stuffs) have to wear those for high level monsters. Chances are they will still be in favour using chaotics than vine whip for high levels monsters.

 

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?rs2item_id=10467

[fishy227]

The FAQ's From the RSOF.

QFC: 15-16-297-62988158

 

Lots of text

[hide]

"Why are Jadinkos available to players that are not on Slayer tasks?"

 

Mod Maylea: That is the case for pretty much all slayer creatures. In this case, there is a storyline and gameplay reason as well.

 

Storyline-wise, it’s important to try and save the vine ecosystem by reducing the amount of mutated creatures - so the more the merrier. Gameplay-wise, I wanted this dungeon to encourage various types of players with different goals to get together and perform their favourite activity in the same area. I find Slayer a very lonely skill. You may meet other people on the same task as you, but what are the chances these will be people you already count as your friends? And what are the chances, if you do have them as friends, that they will have the same task as you next? Here, your friends can tag along with you, and if you make new friends among the skillers, you can always go down there with them and still have something to do.

 

"Are Jadinkos plants or animals? Or both?"

 

Mod Maylea: Both. :)

"How did some become mutated?"

 

Mod Maylea: The jade vine is an unstable plant at the best of times, as those who have tried to plant one will probably know. Papa Mambo has been careful with his, and has used an enchantment to try and keep it in check, but his power only carries so far. Whether he knows of the origin of the jadinkos, or what happens underground, I am unsure. I don’t think he does as he might have tried and done something about it. The result is that the Jadinko Queen, dependent upon the vine to further the colony, suffers from the vines occasional (but natural) corruption and thus give birth to mutated babies.

 

"Why doesn't the examine text of Jadinko fruits explain what they do?"

 

Mod Maylea: The "examine" can only contain so much text as per the game’s restrictions, and couldn’t contain enough to give sufficient info about what they did.

 

They give you an indication of what they do when you eat them, which has a bit more flexibility on how much text it can contain. The main thing is that the special effects of the fruits are not designed to provide an overly significant advantage. They are just there to help you survive in the cave for longer, and the fact that the special fruits do minimal boosts is just an added bonus.

 

"Is it possible to receive woodcutting, firemaking, and fletching strange rocks from training in the lair"

 

Mod Maylea: Yes, yes, and yes.

 

"What affects the hold duration of the bolas?"

 

Mod Maylea: On NPCs, pretty much nothing. It’s the same for everybody unless the NPC is immune to bind.

 

On players, the main thing is the range defence of the target. That includes the range defence of your armour and your range level.

 

But that’s not all, as some players have noticed, protecting from range using prayers will halve the bind time. Unlike a bind spell, bolas are a very physical weapon that tangle your legs. If you hold something that can cut through the vine, you should be able to free yourself more quickly! So holding a slash weapon you can conceivably cut the bolas’ vine without injuring yourself, or carrying a knife, will also halve the bind duration. These two effects stack. This means that with the right equipment, you could be bound for only a quarter of the original bind time.

 

"Why don't Jadinko babies drop the whip vine? They are part of the Jadinko lair."

 

Mod Maylea: They are too young to have developed enough fighting power to produce a whip vine. Also, this allows players on a slayer task (a Mutated jadinko slayer task can be completed by killing indifferently any of the babies, guards or males) to complete their task without struggling to find targets to kill because the higher level jadinkos might be camped by players hoping for a whip vine.

"Why did you make the whip vine tradeable and why was it set at such a high price on the Grand Exchange"

 

Mod Maylea: Unique drops from slayer creatures are always tradeable. This one is no exception.

 

As for the price, it is a fraction of other weapons with a high level requirement that have been released recently. We know from experience that people have spent a lot more money on items that were entirely cosmetic, and this wasn’t just a graphical change. It also updates aspects of the original weapon that people had been considering useless for a long time, so the price estimation wasn’t entirely random.

 

The consequences? The price encouraged some players, that wouldn’t have set foot in the dungeon had the item been priced much lower, to experience the content. The market will force the price up or down until it is right, as always, so the item will find its place on the market.

"For such high requirements, why did you only give the whip a slight boost?"

 

Mod Edam: We were very conscious that we didn’t want to make an item that rivalled the CR in terms of pure DPS. What we wanted to do with the vine whip is make the whip a more versatile weapon. The vine whip’s special, whilst not as spectacular as D claws, should be pretty decent in PVM and this, with poison, means you can use it without having to swap weapons for specials. It also doesn’t degrade; unlike dungeoneering items, which can save money for those on a welfare budget.

 

So yes, in terms of pure DPS, it is only a slight increase but the vine whip does offer a versatility that the whip and the CR may not offer and for us this justifies the requirements. Players with a lot of money and dungeoneering tokens probably won’t consider the vine whip, however we have observed that a lot of high level slayers still use a whip and so believe there is a place for the vine whip.

"With the whip upgraded, why didn’t you consider giving it an aggressive stance?"

 

Mod Maylea: The things that most stood out as needing upgrading from the original whip was the special attack. We added the poison for people who carry a poisoned weapon as well as their whip, so that they could save that inventory space for something else. But the whip had never been designed as a strength training weapon, and we saw no point in changing this now.

 

Mod Edam: Not being able to train strength with the whip is a characteristic that we like. Considering what weapon to use in a particular situation is a core part of Runescape’s combat strategy.

"Why is 83 firemaking a requirement to fletch the roots? I didn't think we needed all the requirements to use the area."

 

Mod Maylea: There isn’t. You can harden straight roots on any fire you can cook on, not just on the firepits that are in the lair. If you want to remain in the cave to harden your roots, you can easily use fires that have been lit/refuelled by other people[/hide]

[rangers5000]

Just tried making bolas abd they r quite slow to make was expecting it to be faster

[Will H]

Now I think about it, the vine whip actually makes more sense, should the whip vine fall to around 1.5m. There is a niche for people who haven't taken the jump for the rapier, but have enough money to want a slightly better primary weapon after using the original whip for so long. The people who are complaining that it isn't a metagame changing weapon fail to understand that this weapon is not designed for them.

[Sly_Wizard]

From early this morning to a few hours ago, whip vines rose from about 7M to an upwards of 8M on W2. Not sure what they're at now, though. I'd actually be surprised if they fell to 1.5M, actually, as they don't seem to be all that common. At least, not nearly as easy as abby whips. Few people would kill jads for that price, since their other drops aren't that great.

[timmmmm83]

From early this morning to a few hours ago, whip vines rose from about 7M to an upwards of 8M on W2. Not sure what they're at now, though. I'd actually be surprised if they fell to 1.5M, actually, as they don't seem to be all that common. At least, not nearly as easy as abby whips. Few people would kill jads for that price, since their other drops aren't that great.

1,5m won't happen any time soon either imo. But if it is a common slayer assignment, price will inevitably drop hard.