Tip.It Times - 17th July 2011

[tripsis]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

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2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

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By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

[/hide]

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me or @Racheya :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

[SanNo1]

Wow, I recently started again after a break and the first article is spot on!

[Will H]

I think we can all relate to the first article, but I don't think it's anything new. What you're experiencing, Racheya, happens to (I think) most of us. It's happened to me multiple times. I normally quit for a month or two, perhaps set my status as "Semi-Retired", then come back. After doing that, it somehow gets easy to be enthusiastic about the game again, and the cycle continues.

 

I don't know why this happens, but it has at least kept me playing this game, albeit not consistently, for nearly 6 years. *shrug*

[Deathknell]

Jagex take note: Racheya, yes Racheya!, is saying your game is going down the drain, and she's one of the biggest defenders your game has. Just imagine how the typical player feels.

 

That is all. :mellow:

[Ieyfura]

That first article pretty much hit it on the head. Now to go read the rest of them. I myself had taken a TWO year break from runescape. The second year of course, filled with a small spatter of occasional log ins to see what was going on, who still played, etc. I log on now, and I really don't know what to do with myself. I don't like Dungeoneering, mainly because I don't know where to start, how to interact with people who've been doing it for months and months now. So I just sit at the GE, make some cash, then train a skill, then make some more cash, rinse and repeat.

 

Ok, NOW I'm off to go read the rest of the articles. :P

[Crossed_Body]

I think we can all relate to the first article, but I don't think it's anything new. What you're experiencing, Racheya, happens to (I think) most of us. It's happened to me multiple times. I normally quit for a month or two, perhaps set my status as "Semi-Retired", then come back. After doing that, it somehow gets easy to be enthusiastic about the game again, and the cycle continues.

 

I don't know why this happens, but it has at least kept me playing this game, albeit not consistently, for nearly 6 years. *shrug*

Yeah, this is true. It has happened to me several times over the years. Most of the time, I come back when there is a good amount of good updates that I haven't tried yet.

[la la la]

I agree with Racheya. Their apathy regarding bots and downright boring updates are really hurting the game. Without firmly making a decision to quit, I've only logged on to do a couple dungeons in the past 3 weeks.

[Diomedus]

I feel like I'm on the way to quitting, but I'm not there yet.

 

I'm hopeful that I will continue to play, as I do like the game, I'm afraid that I will be bored by playing it though.

 

I will be starting college in the fall, so I have no idea what my schedule or interests will be.

[Foodfight13]

I will be starting college in the fall, so I have no idea what my schedule or interests will be.

There is time to play as long as you're not loaded on credits.

 

I also have had dips in the game. I went f2p for a bit two falls ago because my parents were no longer willing to pay for my membership and I didn't have the money. Then I got back into it a bit and played somewhat. I really picked up last summer until I discovered Steam and got into other PC Games such as Portal and Team Fortress 2. I still managed to keep up with Runescape, but then I stopped for a bit in the fall. I only logged on to get the Christmas Event item, then took another 5 month haitus but have playing fairly strong all summer. I also need something Fresh to keep me interested otherwise it feels like a grind. For me, shattered Heart works fairly well. Getting a new game can steal me away though. (E.g. Minecraft)

[Andregiant]

I'm a decent level. Can't say I ever got bored. Skilling and friends are what makes me love this game.

 

Sure, can be boring at times, but you join a a greart clan, and it's talk, talk, all the time :)

A;ways a choice. For me, a great game, make my useless nights fun :)

Log on, don't always play But sure talk :)

 

Don't get addicted, but don't knock it etheir. Solitary with a mission :)

 

Racheya, always like your articles.

[skillsboost]

Hello everyone. I have a few thoughts about the article.

 

What I found latelly (like a few years ago) about RS is that things are more and more confusing. It's the ring to do extra this, the urns to help you there, the gloves for more xp, the tokens from many minigames or skills (dung ?), etc. When I started in '05 RS was straigthfoward. Was simple and easy.

 

In 2010 (?) dung skill arrived and I "tested" it. But I just found another thing that made little or no sense. Seems like a broken link....how does dung lvl influence the rest of the game if it's, in itself, a world apart ? And how boring really it is because it's done apart the rest of the game ? Jagex mentioned many times the great job in dung graphics. Ok, but where's the game part ? How does it becomes part of puzzle ?

 

Also, RS lives a crashing economy, as prices are everyday lower. Because of free trade ? Perhaps. But certainly because bot's have infested the game in a level never seen before. They know that they are imune to any true retaliation from Jagex. And the "double money" scammers are not bots, are real ppl, and they are all over the game, more and more these days. All of this is a reflection of today's society. The (perhaps) noble spirit that I found in RS when I joined is now just a mirage. A couple of scammers make the game funny. Alot of scammers make the game dangerous.

 

Due to clans update, I have involved myself into a couple of them. I found that real ppl bot - wow (thought bot's were from Mars !!). Because cheating (or getting advantage) is just the way many ppl see life in general. One of them used a bot in one player and then was a member of our clan with another player. Basically he used the money from the first to boost the lvls in the second - things like cook and mage, that he needed to buy items in order to level. One day he said to me: "hey, we only have a 7mn ttl xp difference". To me we don't just have a 7mn xp difference, we have a huge difference as persons, in game and in real life.

 

These are a couple of thoughts to think about when we analyse RS in 2011 - are we heading to a cliff ?

[Crossed_Body]

I will be starting college in the fall, so I have no idea what my schedule or interests will be.

Advice from somebody frequenting university: If you're in a hard course like engineering, quit runescape now and start studying.

[Obelon]

The first article I agree with but this is nothing new with runescape, I have quit and came back to the game a number of times (a lot of them have been for short periods). What tends to keep me playing for longer periods of time as if I meet people I enjoy chatting to.

 

Once I can get back into the game I can play for a long time but like all things I need a change from time to time.

 

The 2nd article I am going to disagree with on a number of points.

 

Gaming has reflected this, too. Cut scenes can be skipped in all but a handful of games. Every game is laden with developer programmed cheats to iron out any possibility of irritation.

 

I will agree on the cut scene part but cheats ??, it is true when games first came out (spectrum days, you didn't have many cheats, you didn't had to redo whole levels and so on), then around the first playstation came out cheats where everywhere from inside the games themselves to products like the action replay and xploere gaming cartridges.

 

But today very few games have built in cheats and while a growing number of them do have different level's of difficultys (so that the game applies to a wider range of consumers), in the end to get all those achievements done you will need to complete the game in the hard or at times hardest setting available.

 

There is a growing trend to have extra difficulty levels that have to be unlocked or in some case's accessed via a cheat code of some sort.

 

On the point of achievements yes some achievements you get for merely playing the game, but those are to get people in. To get them all isn't that easy and for a number of games has gotten rather hard. I recall for some of the first games that had achievements it was easy to get every one of that game, now you have to play though multiple times, different difficulty modes and so on.

 

and perhaps the runaway success of mmo's is because you are wrong with your view of everyone wants a "quick reward".

 

yes there has been a shift in society, society is always changing yes if offered two different paths most people will take the easiest path, but that doesnt mean they would always want a quicker way all the time.

 

we as a people are all different and you will find we can like different things giving the rise to both easy games, hardcore games, games that involve more active wii, sony's play xbox motion and so on. The market is big enough for variety.

 

In regard to Mmo's as a gaming platform it in itself is ment to be more long term, its not everyone cup of tea but it is to a lot of players. Yes it would be nice to have less repeative in the games and in a way that is happening.

 

if you take runescape from the classic days to what it is now they are very different, today's runescape shortcuts are everywhere, example take mining, the old system involved a lot of clicks to mine a single rock, now its one click and when you get high enough level via the deposits one click and you can mine at times a inventory full.

 

their is still the longish grind that is part of the game but the game itself is easy.

 

mmo's are very much inline with current cultural trends (its why they are successful). Mmos come in different forms from being easy world of warcraft, being harder eve online and so on but they follow and in a way was ahead of cultural trends in that they gaming communities where we are players are connected to each other online. Now since then you have facebook, skype twitter and so on. A lot of your mainstream games now come with online as standard.

now in regards to botting well like all things people will take a easy road if presented with one, not all people but likely more than 50%. If you where offered double pay in your job would you turn it down ? I doubt it, I wouldn't. would you if you where told it would be at the expense at your co-workers at this point some might waver but not many. and so on.

 

people will tend to take short cuts or the easier way if presented with such a path, and for some bots present such a road. Also as well the game itself is more open than most to bot attacks being that its in java. while bots in general will always be a problem to mmo's some to different degree's example world of warcraft bots are more a issue in farming herbs/ores not so much in raids (yet to see a bot in any raid I have been in). where the design of runescape means bots tend to have a field day. also its the other factor I am not saying that jagex isn't doing anything in regard to bot, I am hoping they are but the perception seems to be they do nothing. This leads to another tendency that some people have you will do something wrong if enough people are doing it and you believe you will get away with it.

 

Now its the problem when it comes dealing with bots as you really have to be more creative at times. Example when the game removed free trade and had trade limits, it didn't stop botting at all but did reduce the numbers. Less reward for the effort of bots but on the same part it was at the cost of people being able to charge what they want for their items as in being a merchant.

 

it is hard to stop bots without sacrificing the game itself.

 

but something jagex could do is every month publish a list of the accounts they have banned or punished for botting (or being linked to botting), have it as part of their website. Being named and shammed would have two effects firstly it makes the punishment when caught worse for botting so that can deter some from doing it. It would also show that jagex is doing something to stop the activity; again if the list is big enough that can start to scare some people from doing it.

 

while that wont solve the problem it will help to reduce it.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Hello everyone. I have a few thoughts about the article.

 

What I found latelly (like a few years ago) about RS is that things are more and more confusing. It's the ring to do extra this, the urns to help you there, the gloves for more xp, the tokens from many minigames or skills (dung ?), etc. When I started in '05 RS was straigthfoward. Was simple and easy.

 

In 2010 (?) dung skill arrived and I "tested" it. But I just found another thing that made little or no sense. Seems like a broken link....how does dung lvl influence the rest of the game if it's, in itself, a world apart ? And how boring really it is because it's done apart the rest of the game ? Jagex mentioned many times the great job in dung graphics. Ok, but where's the game part ? How does it becomes part of puzzle ?

 

Also, RS lives a crashing economy, as prices are everyday lower. Because of free trade ? Perhaps. But certainly because bot's have infested the game in a level never seen before. They know that they are imune to any true retaliation from Jagex. And the "double money" scammers are not bots, are real ppl, and they are all over the game, more and more these days. All of this is a reflection of today's society. The (perhaps) noble spirit that I found in RS when I joined is now just a mirage. A couple of scammers make the game funny. Alot of scammers make the game dangerous.

 

Due to clans update, I have involved myself into a couple of them. I found that real ppl bot - wow (thought bot's were from Mars !!). Because cheating (or getting advantage) is just the way many ppl see life in general. One of them used a bot in one player and then was a member of our clan with another player. Basically he used the money from the first to boost the lvls in the second - things like cook and mage, that he needed to buy items in order to level. One day he said to me: "hey, we only have a 7mn ttl xp difference". To me we don't just have a 7mn xp difference, we have a huge difference as persons, in game and in real life.

 

These are a couple of thoughts to think about when we analyse RS in 2011 - are we heading to a cliff ?

 

I'm pretty much with this. I would also add that a lot of the contribution to player boredom could because things have become just too easy. Things don't feel like an achievement as what they once did. As far as noble players are concerned you're also spot on. Lazy, greedy and incompetant to be able to play a game under their own steam without the help from bots or some RWT.

[Juhnie]

Just wanted to drop by and thank for the first (Racheya's) article. Felt like looking in the mirror. 'twas spooky. Nice job. :thumbup:

[BBK]

Please don't take this wrong but I could barely read the first two articles, they just seem too negative, one about whether rs is boring or not and if theirs a point of playing it, and the second devolves into talking about bots which I'm just sick of hearing about. Rs is a game people, enjoy it and if its stressing you out so much find something better to do. On a dif note the article about citadels is good, I try not to fall into the hype too much but its looking like one of the best updates in a while, should help bring the community together a bit I hope.

[holyfire]

its amazing that runescape has kept yur interest for so many years and has done its job in providing entertainment value for u over many years.....very few games do manage to keep peoples interest for months let alone years...Runescape has done its job well

[Foodfight13]

Please don't take this wrong but I could barely read the first two articles, they just seem too negative, one about whether rs is boring or not and if theirs a point of playing it, and the second devolves into talking about bots which I'm just sick of hearing about. Rs is a game people, enjoy it and if its stressing you out so much find something better to do.

 

I don't think Racheya is attacking Runescape by saying it's boring, I think she's making the point that there are many people who are concerned (myself included) that Runescape has become slightly boring to them and does not keep their attention and interest as much as it did in previous times. This is something that we don't want, and we are trying to find ways to freshen up our gameplay so we can keep playing and enjoying it.

[Obtaurian]

I play to help with DGS and dungeoneer. Runescape gets worse every week. I can relate to Racheya's article.

[Jonanananas]

I play to help with DGS and dungeoneer. Runescape gets worse every week. I can relate to Racheya's article.

 

I play to help with Team Penguin. I can relate to the article as well, there was nothing in the recent months which even mildly sparked my interest. Without the fun that this activity is to me, I definitely wouldn't have bought another month of membership. They're still as incompetent regarding customer support and communication as they were all the years before and even quests, my favourite activity after penguin herding, are lacklustre. Imo, Runescape would be in need of a new management who breathes in fresh air, tries to fix the mistakes in the past and actually care about the game. No chance for that with Jagex being all but ruled by American investors.

 

 

The second article has some good points but the overall point of it is somewhat old. Yes, players often want to have shortcuts and that's why they bot. for runescape it could be solved by cheat servers as suggested in an old article of ts_stormrage. There would still be the load of RWT bots left. Before Jagex shows real initiative(e.g. take the time to code a new random, something like that) to stop bots, all of this discussion is basically useless. Yes I too have argued fervently against bots but right now I'm just sick of it. Jagex needs to get off their asses and actually do something and that's all that is to be said.

 

Third article: I think it's very good that Jagex wants to encourage teamplay(and this is best done by updates like this, not by useless community events(and yes I know these are seperate teams)) and clan citadels look really awesome tbh. I'm not in a clan atm but maybe I'll have a lookout ;)

[Dire_Wolf]

First article :thumbup:

 

Why do i find Runescape boring? Simply because your indirectly forced to activities that has nothing to do with your favourite skills/activity to access a item, cave or advantage. And when your forced to do many unecessary things it tends to pile up and become a big list of chores. It becomes to grindy - no fun.

I wonder how my view would be if i had to level only melee skills to access content tied to it. #-o

 

Jagex's community events aren't any exciting at all also. I think i would have liked to join a event if it wasn't a ordinary event. Any player can host a regular event, but Jagex thinks that a ordinary event HOSTED BY them will be exiciting.

[king_muumuu]

I'm disappointed that the second article didn't touch the subject that Jagex DID create and implement the most effective anti-bot mechanism ever pulled-off in an MMO, the Trade Limit, only to throw it all in the trash 3 years later. Of course, it didn't stop casual players using bots, but it did drastically reduce RWT botting. They had said in 2008 that if they did not implement the TL, the RWTers and bots would take over the game, spelling doom for RS... why wouldn't it also be true in 2011? This could have been a perfect opportunity to point out their incongruence.

[Foodfight13]

They had said in 2008 that if they did not implement the TL, the RWTers and bots would take over the game, spelling doom for RS... why wouldn't it also be true in 2011?

 

Well...

 

I regularly hear from both the community and the Jagex team that we should reintroduce free trade and the excitement of the old Wilderness, warts and all. As you know, we removed free trade and the Wilderness in 2007 to combat botting, gold farming and item scamming. Since then, we have produced new content that provides comparable gameplay and mechanics to allow increased trade limits with long-term friends; however, we are still regularly being told that something is missing from the 'good old days' of RuneScape.

 

We’ve been shutting down bot-makers all around the world and prosecuting people for stealing accounts, and we’ve evolved our systems to quickly detect cheating; however, we will have to accept that we will never completely eradicate cheating so long as there is an incentive and method to do so. Bringing back free trade and the original Wilderness will certainly make this a bigger issue than it is today, though I can pledge that we will never stop trying to combat it.

 

Worst Christmas present ever.

[jondea0]

(About the second article) The answer to your first question is simple. And despite your vigour I would argue you are wrong, MMO's do make things more convenient and do follow the trend. They replace real life achievements with in game ones which are comparatively much easier to achieve. It also makes things more accessible, after all, how easy is it for you to complete a quest where you save (or even become) a member of the royal family. The fact is, the escapist world is much more accessible and convenient than the real one. That explains the difficulty that most players on this topic express; that it is difficult to return to the game after a period of absence because they forget why they considered the in game achievements to be on the same scale as real life ones. Therefore the satisfaction and motivation for the in game achievements is gone.

 

and king_muuuuuu, because most players clearly thought they were throwing the baby out with the bath water, after all a similar affect on crime could be achieved in real life if we implemented an Orwellian government, but (almost) everyone doesn't welcome that idea.