Norway Attacks, at least 80 dead.

[i_love_burritos]

Turned on the news this morning -

 

The Guardian

BBC News

 

They're not sure if it's a terrorist attack, it was near a very busy area of Oslo too.

 

... thoughts ?

[Cheat]

The attack on the Labour party youth camp seems to have everyone thinking its homegrown right-wing extremists. The attacks are pretty gruesome to be fair especially the shootings. It's a shame when anything like this happens and I hope that the arrest of the shooter will put a stop to it.

[mcneilp]

I read they had managed to arrest the gunman from the island, who was Norwegian himself apparantly.

 

Terrible thing to happen though. The pictures of the aftermath of the bomb blast were pretty horrifying.

[Varda]

dear norway, please don't give away your civil rights and privacy in the name of security and counterterrorism.

 

sincerely, usa

 

Oh I hope that doesn't happen.

 

Name of the attacker is given out, it was a Norwegian guy, bluegreen eyes and blonde hair. I feel to conspiracy a bit, but that's not the time for the moment.

Tbh, I'm not really touched by it, maybe because there's a mountain and probably a glacier between me and Oslo. The London blast touched me more, since it went off in my breakfast, a station away from me.

[KittyKat]

There are a lot of reports that the same man was seen parking the car that exploded. It looks a lot like an Oklahoma city style thing. Sad thing is that Norway has a maximum sentence of 21 years, and their prisons are notoriously mild. Mild to the extent that prison cells have ikea furniture, windows without bars, mini fridges, flat screen tvs, and prison facilities have gyms with climbing walls and >$1M commissioned art.

[Guy]

I'm puzzled more than anything. It doesn't appear to be any middle-easten/Islamic terrorism (after all, of all people o attack.. Norway?), so I guess it's pretty much narrowed down to something within the state as Cheat said. I'll be following this closely.

 

It's saddening to notice the targets of the attacks were youths, and the aftermath of the bombing appears horrific from the pictures.

[Varda]

87 confirmed dead. That's including the killings on Utøya. First now it affects me, this shouldn't be happening in little Norway.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080597 From VG in English.

[The Observer]

I heard about this on the news earlier. Seems like the attacks were more home-grown. Surprising to see this happen in Norway, though.

[Loffelicious]

As some may know, I'm from Norway.

 

Today, Norway witnessed its greatest tragedy since WW2.

 

15.26 local time a powerful bomb went off in the center of Oslo, our capital. The bomb was detonated right next to where the Prime minister and the rest of the goverment works on a daily basis. The blast killed about 10 people and injured an unknown number.

 

Later this evening, the same person responsible for the bomb made his way into a political summer camp for youth, dressed as a police officer. Here, he shot and killed over 80 young politicians (age 13-25). His name is Anders Behring Breivik. He is a native Norwegian, age 32.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Contains dramatic photos]

 

[Danqazmlp]

My thoughts go out to any effected by either the bombing or the shooting. It is a sad day indeed when somebody from within a country targets their fellow citizens.

[magekillr]

Glenn Greenwald: The Oslo Attacks

 

Regardless of the justifications of these wars -- and Norway is in both countries as part of a U.N. action -- it is simply a fact that Norway has sent its military to two foreign countries where it is attacking people, dropping bombs, and killing civilians. Historically, one reason not to invade and attack other countries is because doing so often prompts one's own country to be attacked. Western nations typically only attack countries that are incapable of responding in kind, but those nations and their sympathizers are capable of perpetrating asymmetrical attacks of the sort that Oslo just suffered.

 

This has nothing to do with justification, as these kinds of civilian-targeting attacks are, as I said, inherently unjustifiable (though if NATO declares the leader of Libya a "legitimate military target" and air bombs his residence, what's the argument as to why the office of the Prime Minister whose country is at war with Libya is not a legitimate target?). The point is that it's completely unsurprising that a nation at war -- whether Norway or the U.S. -- is going to be targeted with violent attacks. That's what "being at war" means, and it's usually what it provokes. And the way this fact is suppressed ("a coordinated assault on the ordinarily peaceful Scandinavian nation" = the post-9/11 why do they hate us?) highlights how we view violence as something only those Others commit, but not we.

 

As I wrote three different times here, both the perpetrators and their motives are unknown, and none of the points I made -- which relate exclusively to the reaction to these attacks -- are changed in any way based on the identity of the perpetrators. Except that I would add one point about Western reaction if indeed it turns out to be a domestic rather than "terrorist" (i.e., Muslim) attack: American interest in these attacks and the desire to be seen publicly denouncing them will quickly diminish -- almost to the point of non-existence -- if the perpetrators are not Muslim. Add that to the list of revealing aspects of the reaction to this story.

 

Oh, also, PZ Myers:

 

I've run across some wild speculation that it was an Islamic group, which would have meant we were in for months of furious howling and recriminations and righteous anger from conservatives. There's nothing quite like the boogeyman coming to life to stir the Right into paroxysms of self-vindication and pious demands for action.

 

Unfortunately, the right-wing story line may very well be thoroughly derailed. The Norwegian police have a suspect in custody: Anders Behring Breivik, a right-wing extremist, a Christian, a nationalist, and Islamophobe. Oops.

 

If it turned out to be an action by Al Qaeda or angry immigrants, we'd be in for many denunciations of Islam. If it turned out to be an action angry conservative Christians, do you think we'd get similar denunciations of right-wing extremism? I don't think so. Expect Fox News to lose interest very quickly if the culprit turns out to be a white guy.

~The Nightmare in Norway

[sees_all1]

Oh, also, PZ Myers:

 

I've run across some wild speculation that it was an Islamic group, which would have meant we were in for months of furious howling and recriminations and righteous anger from conservatives. There's nothing quite like the boogeyman coming to life to stir the Right into paroxysms of self-vindication and pious demands for action.

 

Unfortunately, the right-wing story line may very well be thoroughly derailed. The Norwegian police have a suspect in custody: Anders Behring Breivik, a right-wing extremist, a Christian, a nationalist, and Islamophobe. Oops.

 

If it turned out to be an action by Al Qaeda or angry immigrants, we'd be in for many denunciations of Islam. If it turned out to be an action angry conservative Christians, do you think we'd get similar denunciations of right-wing extremism? I don't think so. Expect Fox News to lose interest very quickly if the culprit turns out to be a white guy.

~The Nightmare in Norway

[sarcasm]Yeah, I'd say a safe bet is a "Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything."

I think though, we can all agree that Sarah Palin is at fault, especially since she once mentioned something about Obama's Nobel Peace Prize or something.[/sarcasm]

[BloodAngel]

When I saw this on the news yesterday I couldn't believe my eyes, Norway is one of the last places I ever expected something like this to happen. Although I don't know much about Norway and its politics so that could be just my own ignorance. My thoughts go out to everyone effected by this.

[Siobhana]

We followed the news all yesterday. It's completely mind boggling to have something like this happen here in my small, peaceful homecountry. I'm just very thankful atm that afaik everyone I know are safe. And I feel deeply for the families of those who are not.

[Siobhana]

And updated number of dead atm is 91. :-(

[K4ylan]

Do they have any clue why this guy decided to kill all those people.

[Varda]

We followed the news all yesterday. It's completely mind boggling to have something like this happen here in my small, peaceful homecountry. I'm just very thankful atm that afaik everyone I know are safe. And I feel deeply for the families of those who are not.

 

Way off topic:

 

I had no idea you were Norwegian! :P And Trønder too! :D

 

Kaylan, the guy is an extreme right-wing, he took out the youths at AP's youth camp (Labour Party), and some bombs in Regjeringskvartalet, because he disagrees with AP's politics.

[Dire_Wolf]

And updated number of dead atm is 91. :-(

Three people close to me were at Utoya. A friend of mine and his two sisters. My OWN two sisters who likes to go to Utoya was luckily in Iran to visit relatives. If they weren't there then i don't know what would have happened. Last night i saw the number of deaths was 10, when i woke up this morning it had grown to 91 deaths at least.

 

@ Kaylan

AP (Labourparty) has had big support from people which has stopped FRP (Right wing party) to gain controll and make much changes. The shooter was of conservative belief. So i would say the motive of his was that he was not satisfied with the current political system.

 

Utoya is an island given to AP (labour party) by someone (don't remember).

[tripsis]

When I saw this on the news yesterday I couldn't believe my eyes, Norway is one of the last places I ever expected something like this to happen. Although I don't know much about Norway and its politics so that could be just my own ignorance. My thoughts go out to everyone effected by this.

This tbh :/ I wouldn't have expected it at all. I hope all our Tip.Iters in the area are okay :(

[Will H]

What's your problem, magekillr?

 

It's horrifying news, and I'd be interested in seeing how this changes the political and social landscape, as this will be such a shock to the preconception that Norway is a 'peaceful' country.

[Nadril]

[hide=warning: graphic][/hide]

 

That is terrifying. My thoughts go out to all of those in Norway. Certainly the last place in the world someone would expect something like this to happen.

Edited July 24, 2011 by obfuscator
added warning

[magekillr]

What's your problem, magekillr?

 

Nothing at all. Everything's been said when it comes to condolences -- of course others are free to leave theirs here if they so desire, especially as there are Norwegians present. So I figured I would start a discussion by bringing out the always readable Glenn Greenwald and PZ Myers. Greenwald is even better this morning with his latest:

 

For much of the day yesterday, the featured headline on The New York Times online front page strongly suggested that Muslims were responsible for the attacks on Oslo; that led to definitive statements on the BBC and elsewhere that Muslims were the culprits. The Washington Post's Jennifer Rubin wrote a whole column based on the assertion that Muslims were responsible, one that, as James Fallows notes, remains at the Post with no corrections or updates. The morning statement issued by President Obama -- "It's a reminder that the entire international community holds a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring" and "we have to work cooperatively together both on intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks" -- appeared to assume, though (to its credit) without overtly stating, that the perpetrator was an international terrorist group.

 

But now it turns out that the alleged perpetrator wasn't from an international Muslim extremist group at all, but was rather a right-wing Norwegian nationalist with a history of anti-Muslim commentary and an affection for Muslim-hating blogs such as Pam Geller's Atlas Shrugged, Daniel Pipes, and Robert Spencer's Jihad Watch. Despite that, The New York Times is still working hard to pin some form of blame, even ultimate blame, on Muslim radicals (h/t sysprog):

 

Terrorism specialists said that even if the authorities ultimately ruled out Islamic terrorism as the cause of Fridays assaults, other kinds of groups or individuals were mimicking Al Qaeda's brutality and multiple attacks.

 

"If it does turn out to be someone with more political motivations, it shows these groups are learning from what they see from Al Qaeda," said Brian Fishman, a counterterrorism researcher at the New America Foundation in Washington.

 

Al Qaeda is always to blame, even when it isn't, even when it's allegedly the work of a Nordic, Muslim-hating, right-wing European nationalist. Of course, before Al Qaeda, nobody ever thought to detonate bombs in government buildings or go on indiscriminate, politically motivated shooting rampages. The NYT speculates that amonium nitrate fertilizer may have been used to make the bomb because the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, owned a farming-related business and thus could have access to that material; of course nobody would have ever thought of using that substance to make a massive bomb had it not been for Al Qaeda. So all this proves once again what a menacing threat radical Islam is.

 

The rest is here: The omnipotence of Al Qaeda and meaninglessness of "Terrorism"

 

And of course in missing the point Glenn, PZ and I were trying to make, sees_all1 decided to accuse me -- sarcastically -- of saying this is the fault of right-wing rhetoric. So I responded back with my own sarcastic retort, once again to emphasize the original point I made.

[Azvareth]

There are a lot of reports that the same man was seen parking the car that exploded. It looks a lot like an Oklahoma city style thing. Sad thing is that Norway has a maximum sentence of 21 years, and their prisons are notoriously mild. Mild to the extent that prison cells have ikea furniture, windows without bars, mini fridges, flat screen tvs, and prison facilities have gyms with climbing walls and >$1M commissioned art.

 

Except there's nothing sad about treating inmates like they're actual human beings rather than cattle. Could go on about why this works but that'd be derailing this thread.

 

Got family in Oslo, so this thing has really left me in a state of numbness. "Luckily" the bomb went off during the middle of the summer vacation, so the streets are mostly desolate 28 Days Later-style as most people just [bleep] off abroad during that period.

[Siobhana]

For me this is actually very simple. An [wagon] is an [wagon] nomatter age, gender, religion, race or other variables. Yes, the max regular prison sentencing here is 21 years, however if the get him convicted by some special criteria he can be sentenced to "forvaring" (detainement) he can be kept imprisoned indefinitely.

 

I just hope most sincerely that everybody won't let this lead to cries for revenge and more blood. Way too many have lost their lives, lost their loved ones and been physically and mentally scarred for life. This is a time for unity, not fragmentation.

[sees_all1]

And of course in missing the point Glenn, PZ and I were trying to make, sees_all1 decided to accuse me -- sarcastically -- of saying this is the fault of right-wing rhetoric. So I responded back with my own sarcastic retort, once again to emphasize the original point I made.

It takes a certain special type of [wagon] to politicize a tragedy like this.