Norway Attacks, at least 80 dead.

[Dire_Wolf]

Why he would use such ammunition, particularly if it's illegal in Norway, is beyond me.

 

Because he was about to shoot the [cabbage] out of 90 people?

Snipersas is thinking of why he used ammunition A (bullets that don't kill things behind a target) over B (opposite) when his plan was to kill many...i think.

[Siobhana]

Couple of possible reasons can be 1: He knew he'd probably shoot some people inside houses. It would suck if he got caught by a riccochet, no matter bulletproof vest etc. 2: Frangible bullets/hollowpoints leave all their kinetic energy inside the body, and thus do greater damage.

[Will H]

So from what I've gathered across multiple sites is... he's an "anti-terrorist" (anti-nazi, anti-Islamic, against hate ideologies, and against low security).... who uses terrorism to get his point across?

 

Yup. I think it's a pretty safe bet that he isn't of a sound mind.

[magekillr]

So from what I've gathered across multiple sites is... he's an "anti-terrorist" (anti-nazi, anti-Islamic, against hate ideologies, and against low security).... who uses terrorism to get his point across?

 

Yup. I think it's a pretty safe bet that he isn't of a sound mind.

 

I disagree. Have you read his writings? This was the crime of someone who was perfectly sane.

 

Speaking at a televised news conference, [breivik's lawyer] Mr. Heger said that Mr. Breivik had acknowledged carrying out the attacks but had pleaded not guilty, because he “believes that he needed to carry out these acts to save Norway” and western Europe from “cultural Marxism and Muslim domination."

 

He did what he did, knowing it was evil, because of a passionate commitment to a political cause. He's of perfectly sound mind. The difference in ideology between someone like this and many others on the right wing such as Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly is scant. The difference is not in ideology, but in the move to violence. Now that may be a large overall difference, but is it really truly out there when you believe in your full heart of hearts that these people represent a threat to life as you know it, who must be defeated or else fall to the shackles of tyranny?

 

See Max Blumenthal's stellar article: Anders Behring Breivik, a perfect product of the Axis of Islamophobia

 

Michelle Goldberg also has a good article today: The Norway Shooter’s Zionist Streak: Anders Breivik’s embrace of Israel is the latest sign of a shift among reactionaries in Europe—with fascism and Zionism going hand in hand, fueled by Islamophobia

 

And one more from Michelle Goldberg (man is she on a roll): Norway Killer’s Hatred of Women: Anders Breivik used anger against women to cast himself as a crusader, believing feminism is destroying the West from the inside and creating space for Islamism

[Zierro]

He killed a bunch of kids. Maybe his point would've been taken more seriously if he attacked an actual hate ideology. His political view is completely fine, I even agree with it personally, but I don't agree with his means to an end.

[Dire_Wolf]

He killed a bunch of kids. Maybe his point would've been taken more seriously if he attacked an actual hate ideology. His political view is completely fine, I even agree with it personally, but I don't agree with his means to an end.

In a world where there are tons of people of all kind you agree that Multiculturalism is bad? So what, should every people of Earth start making war declaration to gain their independence? Because if we go by the shooters political view, that Multiculturalism in Norway is bad and everyone who isn't a "norwegian" should be kicked...

 

Then i swear, Norway would just like many areas in world become a battlefield of war.

[Zierro]

Didn't I just say I don't agree with his actions?

[Dire_Wolf]

I am just saying that a political view where your against multiculturalism is just wrong. Our world is not that big.

[Zierro]

The thing I was referencing when I said I agreed with him was being "anti-hate-ideology". Multiculturalism does cause a lot of disputes because races/religions/countries will always be at each others throats for whatever reason, no matter how many attempts to build bridges there may be. On the other hand, multiculturalism has done a lot of good for us too. But I wasn't really trying to get into the whole multiculturalism thing with my post. I guess the point I was trying to get across to magekillr was, although his political beliefs may be logically justified, his course of action reeks of insanity.

[Dire_Wolf]

The thing I was referencing when I said I agreed with him was being "anti-hate-ideology". Multiculturalism does cause a lot of disputes because races/religions/countries will always be at each others throats for whatever reason, no matter how many attempts to build bridges there may be. On the other hand, multiculturalism has done a lot of good for us too. But I wasn't really trying to get into the whole multiculturalism thing with my post. I guess the point I was trying to get across to magekillr was, although his political beliefs may be logically justified, his course of action reeks of insanity.

I see. Well my apologizes for bad interpretation.

[obfuscator]

The thing I was referencing when I said I agreed with him was being "anti-hate-ideology". Multiculturalism does cause a lot of disputes because races/religions/countries will always be at each others throats for whatever reason, no matter how many attempts to build bridges there may be. On the other hand, multiculturalism has done a lot of good for us too. But I wasn't really trying to get into the whole multiculturalism thing with my post. I guess the point I was trying to get across to magekillr was, although his political beliefs may be logically justified, his course of action reeks of insanity.

I see. Well my apologizes for bad interpretation.

I must say that I think, in the future maybe 500-1000 years, the current interpretation of "culture" will be nonexistent. The world gets smaller every day, and more and more cultures mix that I think eventually we'll all just be one colour, kind of a global culture. Not necessarily a bad thing - but that's what I think we're on the road to.

[Duff]

eventually we'll all just be one colour

 

o.O

:P

 

I'd say as long as More Developed Counties and Lower Developed Counties learn to help each other out without jeopardizing their ability to survive/be independent, then all cultures are going to mash eventually.

[obfuscator]

Well, I do mean that. Interracial breeding is so common now (and continues to be) that it's bound to happen gradually over time.

[magekillr]

Will Wilkinson:

 

A good number of Americans, it seems, are agitated by the possibility that Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian mass-murderer who gunned down scores of kids at an isolated summer camp, might end up at such a luxe detention facility. In this segment on Norway's "heavenly prison", the folks at Fox News seem sort of boggled by the idea that prisons might be anything other than the squalid overcrowded rape pens where human offal in America is sent to fester out of sight.

 

(snip)

 

Were the mass-kid-killing Mr Breivik thrown into this lion's den, there's a good chance he would not come out alive. And I think a lot of Americans would cheer that result. But clearly there is something wrong with a lot of us such that so many of our jails and prisons are like this. And maybe there is something wrong with relishing the idea of Mr Breivik's lawless death at the hands of wilding prisoners.

 

Nothing can be done to bring Mr Breivik's victims back to life. The most compelling, non-mystical case for vengeance is that it offers some consolation to those wracked by desolation and fury at the murder of their loved one. But the point of a criminal justice system in a civilised society is not the mental peace of those collaterally wounded by crime. All evidence supports the proposition that Norway's criminal justice system is both practically and morally superior to America's. If America's abominably cruel and unjust system delivered results even remotely comparable to Norway's enviable level of civil peace and order, then there might be some reason to take seriously American animadversions against Norway's short sentences and humane prison. But we don't. We're not even close. So Americans should just shut up and watch. It could do us some good to see how a civilised society handles such a horrifying crime.

 

Norwegian v. American Justice: Plush and unusual punishment

[Dire_Wolf]

Will Wilkinson is right. If you give your support to kill a murderer then you will become just as corrupt as he.

 

@Ring

I live in Norway and i am part of a minority and yes i support multiculturalism. The muslims who don't are humans who have been brainwashed, are the brainwashers or just a idiot like the shooter in this topic. Living in Norway i don't feel that i am one of the people at times, but i do care for Norway's wellbeing. Because Norway has alot of kind people. Also muslims who are a minority in Europe should appreciate multiculturalism because without it they woudn't been allowed to live in Europe. There are norwegians who look bad at muslims/black heads, but i don't blame them. I remember sensing a info that there are couple idiots who have come to Norway and done criminal acts but because of the law system they have yet to be kicked out.

[jasignhagj]

There's a balance between punishment and rehabilitation that's difficult to attain. One one hand, if there isn't any significant punishment there is no deterrence from committing crimes, other than ones morals. On the other hand, if you don't rehabilitate criminals then jails become revolving doors, because once the criminal leaves jail he has no options other than committing more crimes.

 

That said this really is a special case. Someone who killed 91 people, especially children, clearly isn't fit to be a part of normal society. I think Norway's system is rather good though. If the 21 years comes up and he still isn't fit to reenter society, he can be kept locked up for 5 more years, then 5 more until he can be safely released, and to be honest i can't see him being released until he is in his old age, 30+ years down the road.

 

On the topic of multiculturalism and Islam, you should really read America Alone by Mark Steyn. While I don't agree with much of what he writes, it gives a very good look at the issue from the opposing side.

[Loffelicious]

While I do not support this, I think that if he is ever released, someone will kill him..

[magekillr]

Pamela Geller's conscience is getting to her:

 

Pamela Geller Edits Post to Conceal Violent Rhetoric in 'Email from Norway'

[Dire_Wolf]

If someone committed a act of terrorism as bad as 9/11 would you support an execution say the person who committed it survived?

 

And I was making a generalization but would you say that a lot of minority groups (as well as individuals) do apply to what I said, or would you say only the extreme brainwashed ones do? In your own experience of course. As an American i dont know things in Europe too well so i will trust what you say as true.

What you said? Muslims extremist that is against multiculturalism and supports sharia law? Living in Norway i have not once encounter someone trying to recruit me for a extremist muslim group, and i very rarely see suspicious people like that. I guess it may be because of education. Point being: In Norway you got good opportunities to study.

[Omar]

Some might say that in the name of multiculturalism, minority groups can sometimes oppress the majority to the point where the idea of multiculturalism is threatened. For example, some argue women wearing burqas are a violation of their own cultural code of conduct: they would say the minority's culture is prevailing over their own.

[Deathscythe]

My view on multiculturalism: When in Rome do as the Romans do.

 

It's all staged terror to be blamed on white al-qaeda back here in the US.

[The_Gabe]

edit: started topic for it.