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tripsis

Tip.It Times - 24th July 2011

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

This week's Times also includes the answers to your questions to Jagex about Clan Citadels!

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

1. You are invited and welcome to express like or dislike on articles and a particular author's writing style. It is not acceptable, however, to flame or personally insult an author. Posts that aren't anything but an attack will be removed from the topic.

 

2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

[/hide]

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me or @Racheya :)

 

Enjoy the articles!


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What does depress me a little is since it will take a while to upgrade the citadels I'll have to keep hearing about them. Looks like another 2 months at least.


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<_< A lot of Questions were asked 2-3 times.

Good to see Fm & Cooking will be used. Going to be a Good update :thumbup:


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I find it funny how jagex answered NONE of the question with references to bots....


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I find it funny how jagex answered NONE of the question with references to bots....

 

 

They were stupid questions.

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Good articles this week, great reading.

 

I really liked Crocefisso one's about the "Impossible balance".

Was interesting, top to bottom.

 

And I feel the same way! Thanks Crocefisso.


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Clan Citadels sound somewhat boring really. Nothing to train but those 7 skills, and pvp. Meh. No dungeoneering parties either.


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Clan Citadels sound somewhat boring really. Nothing to train but those 7 skills, and pvp. Meh. No dungeoneering parties either.

Not every skill was released into the game at first either. They'll most likely add training spots for more skills with updates going forward.


 

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I was most interested in this question:

 

Q: Why are you making it require over 7 weeks to get a tier 7 citadel?

 

A:Its going to take a lot longer than 7 weeks to hit tier 7. As they say Rome wasnt built in a day. We want a Tier 7 citadel to be an achievement in itself it wont only take time, but planning and organisation to upgrade to a tier 7 citadel.

 

This probably means you got to have everything upgraded before you can upgrade to the next tier (exactly the same as the degrading process, if I read that correctly), which would mean that it's going to take at least 14 weeks to get a Tier 7 citadel...

 

I kind of like where this is going, cuz it would mean double the dedication to making a big Tier-ed city, giving even smaller clans more time to grow to the neccisary size :)

 

But other than that, few questions I had as a Clan leader were not answered...

Once the Citadels are released, however, I will have the answers I need for an article of my own about this :ohnoes:

I'm excited, but these answers give me no comfort :unsure:


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Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
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Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
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Seperate post, because Croc's article is a different subject;

 

You're hitting several nails on the head there, and I almost completely agree... The masses have no clue what they want, and any old election result can tell you that, and this is not even counting the group of people that ALWAYS want to stick it to the man...

 

But I don't think Jagex had the player's best interest in mind when they started this whole referendum shenanigans... It has been quite obvious that since the Gowers resigned their position in late november 2010 (and some outsiders took over), everything has been geared towards getting more members... A simple comparisson of subscribers pre- and post- the 2008 updates (free trade and wildy being abused to the point that it was on the verge of bankrupting Jagex), would've told you that there were more people subscribing when those updates were not yet in place... Regardless of the consequences, these updates would eventually be reversed, and with much fanfare the choice was left to the players...

This couldn't be more clear with collecting the signatures of players, without them needing a password, or an option to vote no... The sheer difference in number of yes voters compared to aproving signatures showed this... A quick proper poll was put together to mask this mistake (you gotta wonder why they didn't use the regular polling station on the main RS site), and well, the rest is history...

 

Back to your main point though...

 

That balance of what to listen to, and what not to is an affliction that even the leaders of countries or even groups of countries struggle with... So I can't blame Jagex for ignoring the masses in the future, since they are not a democracy and can't be voted out of office...

But, even though not everyone in his or a similar position does, Croc understands that as a Times writer, he has the spotlight on occasion. And it is as such our duty to provide the good suggestions the platform it deserves... The same goes for constructive criticism... It is up to Jagex to still keep an ear to the ground, even if it chooses to be deaf some of the time...


Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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They answer the same questions multiple times but ignore "important" questions. Stay classy Jagex.


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They answer the same questions multiple times but ignore "important" questions. Stay classy Jagex.

 

Examples? Because I thought they did a pretty good job.

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Interview with Jagex about Clan Citadels:

 

Hey, Jagex, will we be able to have visitors to our clan citadel?

-Why yes you will Runescape player.

Jagex, visitors can come to our citadels right?

-Yes, visitors will be allowed in clan citadels. You can limit where they go and what they can do too.

Are there really going to be visitors?

-Yes.

 

I understand they dont want to give much away which is why they said to go watch the video several times, but asking the same questions over and over again? Really? Over again?

 

Second article seemed to ask more questions than it answered. How about explaining exactly what "instance-ing" is? I dont know, and I dont know if I am the only one who doesnt.

 

The balancing act of Jagex could have been a simpler article. Honestly, it has a good message but the only thing it is going to bring up is a rekindled debate about Free Trade and Wilderness. I dont think Jagex ever wanted to have to implement restrictions on trade, which would explain their suceptability to the players in that instance. Otherwise, Jagex is usually an rock when it comes to listening to player opinion; they know what they want to do with the game, and they do it usually. This is a good conclusion that Crocefisso also came to.

 

Another note on The Impossible Balance article: is the writer and editor British? I couldnt help but notice "skeptical" being spelled "sceptical" several times, and the first I thought was a typo but it continued occuring, so I asked myself whether or not they were American or the British have a different way of spelling the word. There were a few other words like that too.

 

Last but not least, I dont know when the last article was written, but the interview with Jagex tells us Construction is not involved at all and clans will not be fighting other clans on their battlefields (at least not at first). I do not know what addition this article brought to the table really. Maybe hype for the update? I dont know.


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They answer the same questions multiple times but ignore "important" questions. Stay classy Jagex.

 

Examples? Because I thought they did a pretty good job.

 

Some new questions were answered, yeah. But some questions were answered more than once, and others could be easily answered in the blog they released concerning the Citadels.

 

For example.

 

Question 2: Q: What kind of resources can we expect to have in these clan citadels?

 

This question is answered in the Clan Citadel blog they released.

 

Question 3: Q: What if some of the clanfounders become f2p, e.g. 2-weeks-break due to holiday, and the number of clanmembers drops below 5? Will the citadell be accessible for the remaining ones? Will it vanish completely? Or appear again in its last shape as soon as there are 5 clanmembers again?

 

Their answer can also be found in the blog concerning this. That is, if a clan drops below five members, no one can enter the Citadel, and the Citadel decays with the passage of time with no upkeep.

 

Of particular mention is this bolded tidbit here:

 

Q: For which skills will the clan ring be of use?

 

A: The ring can be used for all of the skills mentioned in the dev blog, so; woodcutting, mining, firemaking, smithing, crafting, summoning and cooking. It will depend on what skill plots the clan has though so if a clan only has the woodcutting and mining plots then they will be the skills that can be influenced by the ring.

 

This question could have been answered by having that player look at the Dev Blog. Instead, Jagex told them the answer lies in that same blog, and proceeds to repeat the answer. They could've entirely avoided the question.

 

As mentioned before, some questions are repeated:

 

Q: How big will these Citadels be? Will the size be similar to a city like Falador or will it be something like the PoH's?

 

It's not an unreasonable question to ask. We even got an answer: The Citadels will be around the same size as Varrock. However, it's answered again over here, albeit with another question attached to it:

 

Q: Approximately how large would the Citadals span? If their sizes change between tiers what are the lowest and largest sizes?

 

The bolded part has already been answered by the above. Why did Jagex choose to answer again? Why did Jagex even choose to answer questions that could be satisfied by looking at the blog they released for that same purpose? Probably to fill up on some quota, I'm thinking.

 

Here, the question about skills is answered again, albeit it's framed a bit differently:

 

Q: Will Citadels accomodate most skills (excluding Dungeoneering of course)?

 

A: The skills involved will be; woodcutting, mining, firemaking, smithing, crafting, summoning and cooking. The combat skills can also be used in the battlefield.

 

Instead of asking specifically what skills will be involved, the person just asks if the Citadel accommodated most skills, prescribing not a specific set of skills concerning the experience-boosting ring, but instead a broad range of skills to be accommodated within the Citadel. So the appropriate answer would not be a specific one. Instead, it would either answer yes or no, since the query is framed to facilitate that answer.

 

Instead, Jagex not only answers the same question, but in essentially the same way too: specifically. Again, where are the specifics concerning this question covered already? In the development blog they released in order to answer those same questions. Why go through them again, I'm sorry?

 

The second half of Question 1 is already answered. The first half of Question 31 is answered. Questions 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 14, 24, 25, 26, 30, 32, 33, 36, 38, 41, 42 are all answered in the Dev blog. Several of those questions are not only previously answered by a separate entity, but also have been acknowledged] by the players asking them to have been answered previously.

 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Q & As were meant as a reference for people who had questions that were worth asking. What worth do these questions have if they're essentially not questions i.e. they've been answered already? The Q & As shouldn't serve as a ground for questions previously answered by Jagex, bottom line. Otherwise, that defeats the interview's purpose!

 

I think what Jagex should have done is screen out all the questions that have been previously answered in their blog. That way, they won't have a quota or whatever excuse for lack of customer support to fill up so quickly. I counted 43 questions. 19 out of 43, or 44% of those questions -- almost half -- of them have been already answered in whole. Two questions have been answered in part.

 

If Jagex had screened out those questions, we'd have room for 19 worthy ones that can take their place and thus allow the interview to enlighten players and not be all CTRL + V in their answers like their customer support.

 

I think part of the fault lies with Tip.it though. These questions were asked by members in a thread allotted for Jagex to answer. What the staff could have done is ask players in that thread to not forward any queries that've been answered in the Dev Blog already. Otherwise, the interview's purpose is defeated, and it no longer enlightens, but repeats answers that the community is already privy to -- thus not making it an interview, but more of a reminder.

 

Furthermore, the quality of the queries improves, allowing for more opportunities for more enlightening questions to be forwarded to Jagex. If I recall correctly, Jagex sets itself a quota for a number of questions. It would encourage individuals to only ask questions they know are worth answering.

 

And as someone mentioned before, it's interesting to note that Jagex hasn't answered any questions relating to how bots will be prevented from abusing the Citadel. Overall, this interview is only half good, as only half of the questions asked haven't already been answered.


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They answer the same questions multiple times but ignore "important" questions. Stay classy Jagex.

 

Examples? Because I thought they did a pretty good job.

 

Similar content:

Q: Are the Clan citadels going to look just like the art in the news article?

 

A: They are amazing. If you want to get more of an idea about how they will look you should check out the citadel video.

 

 

Q: How big will these Citadels be? Will the size be similar to a city like Falador or will it be something like the PoH's?

 

A: They are huge, similar in size to Varrock. For more of an idea about the size check out the Citadels video.

 

 

Q: Approximately how large would the Citadals span? If their sizes change between tiers what are the lowest and largest sizes?

 

A: A citadel will be about the same size of Varrock. Although the size varies between the tiers none of them will appear small. For more of an idea about the size check out the Citadels video.

 

Q: Will we be able to invite guests to 'visit' the Citadel?

 

A: Yes, the admin in the clan will be able to change the settings to allow visitors to enter the citadel.

 

 

Q: Will you be able to visit another clan's Citadel if you are in a different clan at that time?

 

A: Yes, you will be able to visit as a guest as long as the host clans let you ...

 

 

Q: Can Guests come to a Clan's Citadel, and if so what ways will a clan be able to control those who are allowed in (either allowing everyone or no one in, allowing people in on invite, only those currently in the clan's chat as a guest, friends of members of the clan, etc.)? Also, if guests are allowed into Clan Citadels will it be possible to restrict which portions of the Citadel they can go to?

 

A: Yes they can as it’ll be a setting to allow guests in or not and then clans will have the ability to set what sections of the Clan Citadel that guests can go into or the whole place.

 

 

Q: Can we visit other clan's citadels?

 

A: Yes you can!

 

Q: Will you be able to make a dungeon to train your clan in against monsters?

 

A: You will be able to make dungeon type rooms in the battlefield but sadly the monsters are afraid of heights and so won’t be there for you to battle. There are going to be NPCs to battle however.

 

 

Q: Will there be any NPC's inside the Citadel?

 

A: Yes, there will be guards and NPC’s available in the battlefield as well.

 

Q: What will happen to the Citadel if a clan no longer has any Paying members?

 

A: The same that would happen if there were still members in a clan but they weren’t keeping up with their upkeep! Firstly the Citadel would start to dilapidate and if still not worked on it would then start to de-tier all the way down to tier 1.

 

 

Q: What if some of the clanfounders become f2p, e.g. 2-weeks-break due to holiday, and the number of clanmembers drops below 5? Will the citadell be accessible for the remaining ones? Will it vanish completely? Or appear again in its last shape as soon as there are 5 clanmembers again?

 

A: The citadel won’t be accessible if there are less than 5 members in the clan. It won’t vanish though, if it takes a while for there to be 5 members again the citadel will be dilapidated but the features and tier level will be the same.

 

Q: How much work (measured in hours) are you going to require from players to upgrade their citadels? Will it be tens, hundreds or even thousands of hours to upgrade the clan's citadel to the über tier?

 

A: Each week a player will need to put in about 20 minutes to help with the upkeep of the citadel, upgrades are an addition to this and will require more time. The more players involved the better though.

 

 

Q: Also, how much time will roughtly need to be spent by everyone (suppose everyone has all skills 80) for the weekly upkeep?

 

A: It’s averaged out to be around 20mins per player in the clan. Obviously if less people decide to help with the upkeep then there will be more time required from the others.

 

I may have missed some. Geekguy above also wrote a great response to this :) Perhaps related questions should have been merged and then given one informative answer.

 

Some answers were the very broad ones we've grown to expect from Jagex, even when being broad is totally unnecessary as the question was innocent and knowing an answer wouldn't hurt Jagex or its players in any way. I'm not sure why they feel the need to be so secretive about unnecessary things (I've had numerous experiences where Jagex would hype something up in the past, be very broad and secretive with their answers regarding certain aspects of the update, and then when the actual update came around my reaction to the thing they were keeping so secret was "they were being secretive about this?!" because it was so miniscule and often unnoticed by players anyway). Also, there were a few no-brainer question/answers (because they've already given details on the question before through the news post, or dev blog, or video; mind you, some questions were asked before the dev blog/video, but Jagex should have known this and opted to not answer them again and instead focus on other questions).

 

 

Also...

Q: How much is the Construction skill involved, and are there features that aren't purely decorative that require levels higher than 75 in that skill?

 

A: Not at all!

That is absolutely disappointing :/ It's so applicable (although, given the nature of the skill perhaps it could have been for cosmetic purposes only).


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I was referring to the 'important' questions. I realized they answered questions already asked.

 

Nevermind the edit, my post is applicable to both above posts.

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I was referring to the 'important' questions. I realized they answered questions already asked.

 

Nevermind the edit, my post is applicable to both above posts.

 

Oh. I agree with that, yeah. I don't know what important questions they didn't answer besides ones about bots, but I think those would've been CTRL + V anyway.


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Did Jagex just send the same Q&A to multiple fansites? The questions were almost an exact copy of: http://runescape.salmoneus.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=350717.

If I understand what they did correctly, we were given some exclusive Tip.It answers and then a few were copies. Jagex asked multiple fan sites to send over questions so they probably picked the most common ones to respond to.


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Did Jagex just send the same Q&A to multiple fansites? The questions were almost an exact copy of: http://runescape.salmoneus.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=350717.

If I understand what they did correctly, we were given some exclusive Tip.It answers and then a few were copies. Jagex asked multiple fan sites to send over questions so they probably picked the most common ones to respond to.

 

D:

 

But- but the common ones are the ones already answered on the RuneScape site. >.< I mean, exclusive answers to fan-sites are cool. Now I see though, the problem with answers to common queries doesn't lie solely with Tip.it. It'd be great if the other fan sites with this privilege to an interview could screen out commonly asked questions that have an answer to them already, and instead send commonly asked questions that don't have an answer yet. Then the interviews would be quality, imo. It's a pipe dream though. Sorry to repeat that yet again. I just think these interviews could have done better. Some important queries were fielded, that's true. But not enough interesting/pressing ones made it to Jagex.


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I was quite disappointed in the interview. The second and fourth articles didn't seem to really have a point, but were still good reads.

 

I feel the third article really covered the issue well, although I do still think the wildy/free trade poll was a bit of a gimmick to get players who had quit active (and subscribing) again.

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like member rewards points, citadels are a new method of punishing players for being non members.

 

in all previous updates, if you could pay, you got all the advantages of membership. if you could not, the advantages of membership would be reinstated as soon as you could pay.

 

in these new updates, as soon as you can't pay, (for example you needed your pocket money to but Christmas presents or needed your pay for medical bills), you are punished. directly through reward points, as the points rate is reduced, and indirectly via citadels as your team mates become unable to maintain their work.

 

these are both classic psychological torture methods designed to force you to continue paying jagex despite your economic situation.

 

the rewards points are relatively mild and put pressure on players, but at least it is still their own decision.

 

if citadels simply degraded visually, and maintained their level, this would be moot, but since the citadels lose real work, this forces clans to demand that clan members also become paying members to maintain the citadel. this use of psychology to put peer pressure on other players is unconscionable.

 

in the past, i have always recommended runescape to my friends as an excellent game that allowed players the freedom to play as they wanted. as of the introduction of citadels, the management has shown themselves to use the kind of dark psychological techniques used by black mailers and fraudsters. i am very disappointed in the management and can no longer play a game that uses such underhanded techniques let alone recommend it to others.

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From the Impossible Balance: "Similarly, anyone gullible enough to believe that Jagex had some sort of comprehensive strategy to defeat bots as Jagex did, at one point, claim is the same sort of moron who gets ripped off under free trade."

 

Yes, I was skeptical too (clearly for good reason.) However, I trusted their word on this matter because they had done something about it in the past (aka removal of free trade/ "old wild".) This does not make me gullible. They said they had a plan, there was evidence from the past that they could come up with remedies to similar issues (the bots pre-free trade/ "old wild" removal.) Due to this, I chose to believe them. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME A MORON! They said they could take care of it, there was evidence from the past saying they could. Please do not deride players who thought differently than you to try to reinforce your point. It is not okay.

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instancing being used to combine people from different worlds would be awesome, and the technique itself sounds brilliantly implemented. at first i wondered why people would want instances as it would reduce the number of people playing, but this explanation sounds quite good.

 

personally, i have seen only about 2 bots since the re-introduction of the wilderness. what i have seen more of is people accusing power levellers of being bots.

 

what happens is that some power leveller is skilling as hard as they can, and not chatting. some pker comes along, demands that they talk, then kills them and claims they were a bot. confirmation bias means that these people see bots every where they go. they claim there are far more bots than there really are because each time they see someone who won't talk to them, they declare them a bot. each time they see a "bot" it just confirms that everyone around them is a bot.

 

this is more a psychosis than a reality. there may be many bots, but if so, i have only seen 2, potential (not actual) bots once on a non members world.

 

if there really are a lot of bots on non member's worlds, perhaps the players that fear them so much should just change to a member's world instead :-)

 

if the people who can pay, do so, there will be fewer players to compete with those who can't and the bots won't be so much of a problem as total competition will reduce.

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I see bots while mining every day. I know they're bots and not real players because they follow a predictable pattern, and no real person would wander back and forth between the rocks for two hours while getting no ores without complaining or leaving.


 

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