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Botting in Runescape

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So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

The only basis from what I understand from the anti-bot crowd is that bot makers are breaking the Terms of Service, are infringing on Jagex's copyrights (as far as reflection bots are concerned), and/or are playing immorally (whatever that means) or against the spirit of the game. So, explain how these points hurt the game (e.g., your experience and enjoyment from playing RuneScape?). The only viable option is that low-level supply gathering (maybe all supply gathering) is not worth it, but other than that...

 

Does wanting a fair and level playing field ever have to be justified?

 

Um, yes? Everything has to be justified...or its baseless. That doesn't mean its HARD to do, but it is still necessary.


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So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

I fail to see how you must bot in order to study, volunteer or work out.

 

You can also, you know, NOT play runescape for a few hours and do all of the above?

 

Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....


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The term, "Two birds with one stone," comes to mind. :P.


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The term, "Two birds with one stone," comes to mind. :P.

 

Can you imagine if everyone in the world was as against automation as this community.


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The term, "Two birds with one stone," comes to mind. :P.

 

...or you could not play RuneScape, and not violate whatever contract you have with RS by botting instead. Less headaches for everyone, I'd think.

 

To n64jive's argument: You've managed to demonstrate that, instead of botting being the problem, it is merely a symptom of gameplay being unrewarding in the immediate term.

 

If one leads a busy lifestyle in that they can't devote much time to RuneScape, yet they still wish to advance [to a level that they deem satisfactory to compete in high-end content] in RuneScape, then that person has three choices - either not advance, advance at a snail's pace, or advance instantly (or what is perceived as "instant") through the use of RWT/bots. The problem with this is that the first two options are undesirable in many causal gamer's eyes, so there will be people that will take their chances, and simply purchase the resources/levels/items/whatever. This is bad for RuneScape in the long term, not just because of the effect that RWT/botting has on legitimate players, but because potential players won't want to spend a mountain of time just trying to compete on a level with everyone else.

 

That's why people RWT...but your point summarized much of this anyway.


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if potential players won't want to spend a mountain of time just trying to compete on a level with everyone else, then they can just bot/rwt

saying that botting gives someone an unfair advantage is like a diy player saying that the other people who trade have an unfair advantage

it's like saying that people who use a newer and better training method has an unfair advantage compared to everyone else that chooses not to use it for whatever reason

it's their own choices that are limiting themselves, not what other people do

everyone has access to botting, thus everyone is on a level playing ground


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Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....

Or maybe you could just accept that you'll never be able to have what you want and just move on.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to be able to get it really, but it seems like no one in this world subscribes to that value anymore. :rolleyes:


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Mod Edit: Removed quote of rulebreaking post. Sorry for the inconvenience! :)

 

Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal. Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and those that are bad (or wrong).

 

Thus botting is only cheating if you believe it is immoral. Do I bot? No. Do I believe its immoral? No. I don't view botting as cheating. Its as simple as that, its a simple logical process of thought.

Do I support botting? No, but I don't believe its IMMORAL.

Edited by Kimberly
Mod Edit: Removed quote of rulebreaking post. Sorry for the inconvenience! :)

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This topic exists to discuss botting and its presence in RuneScape. This is not an arena to insult or make baseless assumptions of your fellow forum users. Not everyone will see eye-to-eye in this discussion, so if you're not prepared to accept that basic fact and rein in the name-calling, then simply don't post.

 

Posts continuing in such a fashion will be removed as normal. This is just a reminder to keep a level head. :)


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Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....

Or maybe you could just accept that you'll never be able to have what you want and just move on.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to be able to get it really, but it seems like no one in this world subscribes to that value anymore. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, but I'm a grown adult, and if I want something, I'm at least going to try.

 

I tried to come back to runescape over the holidays. It was boring. I didn't enjoy it. It was very short lived. I realized that I just don't have to the time to play this game, which I had when I started 10 years ago.

 

I think this is Jagex's greatest downfall, and will ultimately lead to the game's demise. The game has a limited audience who can enjoy it, with the majority of players ages 13-18.


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[hide=n64jive]

Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....

Or maybe you could just accept that you'll never be able to have what you want and just move on.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to be able to get it really, but it seems like no one in this world subscribes to that value anymore. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, but I'm a grown adult, and if I want something, I'm at least going to try.

 

I tried to come back to runescape over the holidays. It was boring. I didn't enjoy it. It was very short lived. I realized that I just don't have to the time to play this game, which I had when I started 10 years ago.

 

I think this is Jagex's greatest downfall, and will ultimately lead to the game's demise. The game has a limited audience who can enjoy it, with the majority of players ages 13-18.

[/hide]

 

tbh, then quit, but do not destroy the game that some of us has put 8+years on.

runescape is not meant to be a game where as everyone starts with maxed lvls so that you can do all the activities, your supposed to have to work long to reach goals, something that some of us like.

 

 

Mod Edit: Removed quote of rulebreaking post. Sorry for the inconvenience! :)

 

Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal. Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and those that are bad (or wrong).

 

Thus botting is only cheating if you believe it is immoral. Do I bot? No. Do I believe its immoral? No. I don't view botting as cheating. Its as simple as that, its a simple logical process of thought.

Do I support botting? No, but I don't believe its IMMORAL.

 

cheat (cht)

v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats

v.intr.

2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

as far as i know boting is against the rules, aka if you aare boting you are cheating. and i find cheating immoral.

Plz let me know what dictionary you are using, must be fun making up what words stand for.


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What the heck, why are people trying to structure this discussion into philosophical argumentation for morality lol


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[hide=n64jive]

Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....

Or maybe you could just accept that you'll never be able to have what you want and just move on.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have to be able to get it really, but it seems like no one in this world subscribes to that value anymore. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, but I'm a grown adult, and if I want something, I'm at least going to try.

 

I tried to come back to runescape over the holidays. It was boring. I didn't enjoy it. It was very short lived. I realized that I just don't have to the time to play this game, which I had when I started 10 years ago.

 

I think this is Jagex's greatest downfall, and will ultimately lead to the game's demise. The game has a limited audience who can enjoy it, with the majority of players ages 13-18.

[/hide]

 

tbh, then quit, but do not destroy the game that some of us has put 8+years on.

runescape is not meant to be a game where as everyone starts with maxed lvls so that you can do all the activities, your supposed to have to work long to reach goals, something that some of us like.

 

 

Mod Edit: Removed quote of rulebreaking post. Sorry for the inconvenience! :)

 

Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal. Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and those that are bad (or wrong).

 

Thus botting is only cheating if you believe it is immoral. Do I bot? No. Do I believe its immoral? No. I don't view botting as cheating. Its as simple as that, its a simple logical process of thought.

Do I support botting? No, but I don't believe its IMMORAL.

 

cheat (cht)

v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats

v.intr.

2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

as far as i know boting is against the rules, aka if you aare boting you are cheating. and i find cheating immoral.

Plz let me know what dictionary you are using, must be fun making up what words stand for.

 

My premise was constructed using dictionary definitions, I resent the assertions of "making up" definitions but than again, since you can't defend your argument with anything other then an opinion and "Rules r rules" I guess that is the strongest case you are capable of making. Also, stating "I live by the rules" is, IMO, a terrible way to live. One should never take that stance completely. It is, if that were everyones stance, live in a dictatorship.


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Ah, yes, but can you do all of the above and play runescape?

 

Ok, so 24 hours in a day.

 

I spend 9 hours working, 8 hours sleeping, 2 hours eating. That leaves me 5 hours leisure time. If I work out every day, that leaves me 3 hours.

 

Let's say my end-game goal is to create an account I can stake with.

 

If one can obtain combat xp at an average rate of 60k xp an hour, that is a minimum of 215 days, or over 7 months just to get a maxed combat account.

Now let's say I need about 500m as a staking budget. That's going to take another 160 days or so.

 

You would have to dedicate over a year, playing every day, 3 hours a day, just to get to some end-game content.

 

or you could just buy it from some random player. It probably would cost you around $500, which is roughly 50 hours, or about a week of work for your average person, or 2 days of work for me.

 

And this is why people RWT....

 

Or, you could, like your signature states, accept that you don't like the game, quit and move on.

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The idea is for kids who are are too addicted to quit but occasionally need to play Reallife MMO can run a bot and gain xp in reallife while not wasting xp in runescape. Agree with it or not this is why bots will never go away.

 

Though I agree its kind of sad that they are too addicted to walk away. But at the same time say someone is a PVMer it is quite a bit of hours doing shit they dont enjoy to reach the stuff they do, (much like doing a quest with a high agility lvl req). I dont condone it but I certainly am not surprised many choose to bot

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At the end of the day, this is no great question of morality. Your Runescape account is the property of Jagex, so it actually is a case of 'the rules are the rules'. Jagex also owns Runescape, and they have decided botting in Runescape is wrong. Since the game is their creation and property, it is their decision whether or not botting is right/wrong. And they have decided it is wrong. You can argue all you like that botting is not 'wrong', but what you think doesn't matter in this case. And having spoken to Jacmob, he seems confidant that Optimus will be more permanent and wide reaching than Bot Nuke V1, so hopefully this discussion will soon be a moot point.


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Guest jrhairychest

Does wanting a fair and level playing field ever have to be justified?

 

Um, yes? Everything has to be justified...or its baseless. That doesn't mean its HARD to do, but it is still necessary.

 

Really? Wow....... If I'd have known that fair play had to be justified I could have made up my own rules of all the games/sports I have ever played. What a cool philosophy :rolleyes:

 

 

tbh, then quit, but do not destroy the game that some of us has put 8+years on.

runescape is not meant to be a game where as everyone starts with maxed lvls so that you can do all the activities, your supposed to have to work long to reach goals, something that some of us like.

Bravo =D>. Do you ever get the feeling that because players don't like RS any more or won't abide by the rules, they don't want you to have fun either or want you to agree that rulebreaking is acceptable?

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So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

 

LOL! Ok, thats pretty funny. Youre asserting that someone plays Runescape by botting so they can dedicate their time to altruistic pursuits.

 

Thats hilarious. Thats the best laugh I have had today.

 

Are you done being ridiculous yet?


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So far I have not seen one person who supports bots or cheating that has shown that cheating or bots it is better for the game. Nor have any of them proven that they are better people or better players because they bot or cheat.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I let my bot play for me, while I went to the gym and worked out" -Person A

Person A is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I study for my exams" -Person B

Person B is now a better person because he cheats.

 

"Instead of playing runescape, I volunteer at a the local hospital"-Person C

Person C is now a better person because he cheats.

 

LOL! Ok, thats pretty funny. Youre asserting that someone plays Runescape by botting so they can dedicate their time to altruistic pursuits.

 

Thats hilarious. Thats the best laugh I have had today.

 

Are you done being ridiculous yet?

 

Or they bot so they can play world of warcraft :lol:

 

Still though whether or not you agree with the motivation to bot you cant argue that its not there.

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First off, the point about it being Jagex's game and rules is totally valid in my eyes. You agree to a terms and conditions when you join, which dictates that you either play their game and follow their rules, or you don't play at all. It really is as simple as that. The game is a privaledge, not a right, which means access is on Jagex terms. If they want to turn RuneScape into an oppressive super strict game, that's their prerogative. If they want to turn it into anarchy, they can do that too. What any of us think means absolutely nothing beyond whether we play their game or not. At the end of the day, that is the only voice we have that counts for anything.

 

That said, I see botting as selfish and pointless.

 

It's selfish because it does impact other players, by taking up training spots and impacting the economy. It is an ultimate expression of putting your own goals and enjoyment before anyone else, without consideration of other people.

 

But everyone could bot and then it wouldn't be a problem...

 

Which takes us too pointless. If everyone botted, then its just your computer playing with Jagex's servers. Everyone would eventually be maxed in everything (or everyone would be banned and the game would shut down), and no accomplishment would mean anything. It would just be millions of computers talking to Jagex's servers for a game that would quickly become meaningless, and wasting internet bandwidth and electricity in the process.

 

At the end of the day, botting is like trying to play RuneScape in God Mode. Sure, it would be really fun to be able to do anything without any work for a little while. Might even get a good week or two out of it. And that would be it. The whole appeal of the game, from a psychological point of view, is the achieving of goals. Without that, the game is about as close to being objectively boring as is possible. Without that dopamine release that comes with achieving something, you would get bored of the game very quickly.

 

And don't say you just want a pker or a staker. If you want to fight people, there are probably more than a hundred games out there with better combat mechanics than RuneScape for that sort of thing. If you *really* need the RuneScape experiance, go buy some 20 sided dice and go wild. You don't need to RuneScape to have a random number generator. You don't even need a computer.

 

Otherwise, there are plenty of games that require more skill and less luck in their combat, with much easier access to the possible strategies that don't require a weeks grinding to afford equipment and gain the levels.

 

 

At the end of the day, if you feel the need to bot in RuneScape, then you shouldn't be playing the game anymore because you obviously don't find it fun.

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I should point out that I have moved on from this game. I like to check up on it from time to time, as I have certain predictions for it that I like to validate.

 

I also am not implying by any means that I do bot (or that I have ever botted)...I am simply implying that Runescape is a game. In this game, your "skill" is based on your devotion to the game. It's more of a job where you are not getting paid. For that reason, I don't fault kids for not wanting to go through the grind.

 

As for pursuing altruism, I can say that many people do. Whether it's botting while you work to feed your family, or botting while you are at school, or botting while you work on your physique....These are all things that many kids gladly skip in order to play this game. I never skipped high school, but I often skipped social events with my friends, I would skip out on work occasionally, and in my early years of college, I would skip some classes. It didn't take me long to realize that the game had a grasp on me (call it an addiction if you like). And I know I am not the only one of this nature. You can't be 'good' at runescape...you can only have a good account with good stats in which you spend a fair amount of time on to get.

 

As for botting ruining this game, it's completely untrue. Bots don't ruin the game, gold farmers do. I think you'll find that the majority of the botters you speak of are not people who actually want to "play" the game, but are rather gold farmers who seek to profit from the resources of the game. And the reason a market exists for such items is that you must spend 10x more time in game to achieve the same level as just "buying" it.

 

EDIT:

Which takes us too pointless. If everyone botted, then its just your computer playing with Jagex's servers. Everyone would eventually be maxed in everything (or everyone would be banned and the game would shut down), and no accomplishment would mean anything. It would just be millions of computers talking to Jagex's servers for a game that would quickly become meaningless, and wasting internet bandwidth and electricity in the process.

 

I want to point out I agree with everything you said, but I should point out that your accomplishments are already "meaningless". You reached a goal. Congratulations, so did 200,000 other people.

 

I never meant to argue "why botting should be condoned", but my original point to posting on this thread was that Jacmob took a game which I assume he played, pointed out its flaws, and then developed his own means of combating those flaws. You want to say that botting is pointless, but in reality playing runescape is pointless. At least Jacmob got something out of it, which in the end was a successful entrepreneurship which led him to a successful career with Jagex straight out of highschool.

 

1 in a million, and he got there by breaking the rules...


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Botters *do* ruin the game, even if they don't goldfarm. How do you think I feel when I'm one of the few legit players at (say) soul wars bank, while there are dozens of other *players* just taking the easy way and botting their buyables? What is left of runescape without achievements?

 

Players should have fun with the rs community, not have their computer play with jagex' computers. (quote, mod mmg)

 

And for your examples with busy people - maybe they should realise they shouldn't play a mmo if they don't enough time for it. And it's your (not our) problem that you can't balance your time spent on scape, that doesn't give you an excuse to ruin it for those that do.

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tbh, then quit, but do not destroy the game that some of us has put 8+years on.

And how do you not see the problem with this. Runescape is a GAME. You have put 8+ years into a game. A game that will do nothing for you. I look back on it and realize "Wow, how many better things could I have done for myself instead of playing this stupid game.

 

I realize that this is a runescape fansite, and penetrating that wall will be pretty difficult, so I'll just leave it at that...

 

Botters *do* ruin the game, even if they don't goldfarm. How do you think I feel when I'm one of the few legit players at (say) soul wars bank, while there are dozens of other *players* just taking the easy way and botting their buyables? What is left of runescape without achievements?

 

Players should have fun with the rs community, not have their computer play with jagex' computers. (quote, mod mmg)

 

And for your examples with busy people - maybe they should realise they shouldn't play a mmo if they don't enough time for it. And it's your (not our) problem that you can't balance your time spent on scape, that doesn't give you an excuse to ruin it for those that do.

With that said, it is your problem that bots exist and ruin the game for you. Maybe you should do something about it.

 

I already did something about my problems. This thread isn't about my problems. It's about "your" problems.


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...Runescape is a GAME. You have put 8+ years into a game. A game that will do nothing for you. I look back on it and realize "Wow, how many better things could I have done for myself instead of playing this stupid game.

 

If it wasn't for this "stupid game" I'd never have met my partner of almost 5 years.


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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Guest jrhairychest

I want to point out I agree with everything you said, but I should point out that your accomplishments are already "meaningless". You reached a goal. Congratulations, so did 200,000 other people.

Sounds like you've got a real axe to grind here. Just let people enjoy their game, even if you're still sore about 'wasting' all those years...............

 

I never meant to argue "why botting should be condoned", but my original point to posting on this thread was that Jacmob took a game which I assume he played, pointed out its flaws, and then developed his own means of combating those flaws. You want to say that botting is pointless, but in reality playing runescape is pointless. At least Jacmob got something out of it, which in the end was a successful entrepreneurship which led him to a successful career with Jagex straight out of highschool.

 

1 in a million, and he got there by breaking the rules...

 

Yes....a game is really flawed when you're actually supposed to play it yourself :rolleyes:. Gl with the hero worship.

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