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Botting in Runescape

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Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

 

What the heck does not liking bots have to do with "understanding there is more to life than runescape"? That's an insulting insinuation with very little grounds for saying it.

He is again saying that, runescape requires grinding and people want to enjoy what time they have, so when they bot they can have more enjoyment and less grind. But what is the destination without the journey?

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You achieve more moments of the initial satisfaction but it has less value. (The individual satisfaction is lower for me at least.) It also means we automatically begin to devalue other's achievements, because we believe that person didn't rightly do the work themselves.

 

If you value your time more than playing rs the answer isn't to bot rs, the answer is to not play rs. Very simple.


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Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014
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^agreed...


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Hey guess what. Grind is a part of many real life skills. It can take *thousands* of hours to get good at instruments, sports, etc.

 

Many societies now are based on instant gratification though. We don't want to wait for good things, we want them right now. But I like having value to my achievements. It took time and energy. But when someone else gets it for free, (botting) it devalues my effort because they get the rewards without the work.

 

I think everyone talking here agrees. I agree with Stev, that more interesting content should be created for lower levels, but done in such a way that higher levels can't crash it. I'm not sure how this would work, although I think the best solution would be to instance the areas, so that higher level players literaly can't access the easier content. (Sort of like how each person has their own barrows brothers. but make their abilities/level increase as the player does)

 

Then again, instanced bosses have been on a wishlist of players for a long time.

 

I agree here. People spend vast amounts of time on skills doing boring things to get to 'the good stuff' in terms of real life too. For example, the person who said that jacmob got lucky by breaking the rules. No he didn't. He spent a considerable amount of time working with computers, and after he has finished the bot problem will be moving onto working on the engine. Whilst his role at a botting site may have helped keep him in contact with Runescape, it is the fact that he worked for a long time that got him the job. Spending a long time working on something for a reward. Sounds familiar.


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Guest jrhairychest

A lot of other MMOs, you start a new account and BAM! There's action right away. WarRock/Battlefield, for example. You start an account, you're given a gun and thrown into the game with immediate action. 15 seconds from registering and starting up the game, your in as much of the action that the game has to offer.

 

WulframII had a 15 hour training servers. Training was boring and a lot of people quit before reaching the good content. They didn't want to sign up to sit 'practicing' for any number of hours. They wanted to fill out the form and play with the big boys.

 

RuneScape is the same... Only people have a method to automate the training process. You sign up, get given a few GP, some runes and arrows, and are forced to grind like hell to reach anything even remotely close to good content. I remember each account I started, killing goblins, then guards, etc etc. It's boring as hell.

 

These people want to see and reach the good content but aren't willing to sit through countless hours of training to reach it.

 

It's a fault on Jagex' end. If they gave lower levels more crap to do then sit chopping trees, bank standing, etc... Give them a reason to play besides the, "Well, in 40 hours of playing grinding, I can unlock ___. Then I can do that for 80 hours until I can do ___. Then I can finally start to ___!" Honestly, what is there for lower levels to do? Boss hunt? Merch? Minigames? Grind?

No idea why you keep coming out with these ridiculous arguments. If it was THAT boring you wouldn't have stayed with it. Enough of trying to pull in ridiculous points to support your conclusions when you yourself are evidence that you stayed with the game...come on say it.....you actually enjoyed playing it. Did you really expect anyone would believe that you were somehow forced into all that grinding? Get real.

 

Instead of trying to change the mechanics of the game maybe you should focus on either changing the attitude of the players or perhaps they should play something else that gives them the instant fix they're looking for. And if you still find it boring then go somewhere else and moan about someone elses game.

 

I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation. As long as there are still enough of us that actually enjoy the game in its current format, it should stay that way, and people who don't like that should suck it up and not play (obviously people are going to try to cheat, but people do this in literally every game where its possible). When there aren't enough people left who enjoy RuneScape to keep it afloat, then it should go the way of Classic and make way for a new game, one that caters to people who want all the rewards without any of the work (which is a hilariously bad way to prepare you for life unless your born into old money).

 

As it stands, I would rather see RuneScape die honest to its roots and be replaced, than see it be destroyed by the people who feel the need to bot. I want to see the game go out with honor when the day comes.

Absolutely. Well said =D>

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"Instant Gratification" really only applies to people who have been playing a fair amount of time. I know for myself, and I'm sure nearly every other person here, your first few months playing RuneScape was great. There was no "Grind", you played because you wanted to play. You wanted to explore, do quests, train your skills. I can remember killing Cow's in Lumbridge, and hoping that at some point I'd be able to kill them in one hit as other people were doing. That applied to everything. I didn't want 99 in a stat, or the best gear going. New players would quit before botting, because if they have to resort to automating it, they don't know what they're doing it for. They don't know what's at the end of that tunnel.

 

Stop pushing the idea that this game is just a grind to everyone.


RIP Michaelangelopolous

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"Instant Gratification" really only applies to people who have been playing a fair amount of time. I know for myself, and I'm sure nearly every other person here, your first few months playing RuneScape was great. There was no "Grind", you played because you wanted to play. You wanted to explore, do quests, train your skills. I can remember killing Cow's in Lumbridge, and hoping that at some point I'd be able to kill them in one hit as other people were doing. That applied to everything. I didn't want 99 in a stat, or the best gear going. New players would quit before botting, because if they have to resort to automating it, they don't know what they're doing it for. They don't know what's at the end of that tunnel.

 

Stop pushing the idea that this game is just a grind to everyone.

 

Actually, this is an AMAZING point. But I'd point out the counter example: I'd assume (I could be wrong) that MOST people who bot either are botting alts (Maybe a pure for PKing or something) or their main AFTER they get bored, but still want a certain level for some reason. I wouldn't imagine that there are many people who bot from their first day of RS. (Unless its people starting to play w/ friends, wanting to catch up or something.)


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So it's only older players that are complaining about the grind, despite the fact it wouldn't have been any bother several years before on their own account.

 

It's the older players trying to make it easier on their own newer accounts, the real new players would enjoy the grind. That's part of the adventure.


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Agreed on the grind thing. However, there is a 'mid' level grind that can occur. i've had a few friends quit once they got into the 50s and 60s. They felt like there wasn't as much progress, and weren't willing to try quests. There was not a lot of 'flashy' content. (I tried to show them otherwise) but they kept looking at all the high level content and getting jealous/annoyed that it would take them so long to reach. I'm sure some of these players turn to botting instead of quitting. But that's a few months to a year in the game already.


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I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation.

 

RuneScape has already been taking baby-steps toward the instant gratification. Look at how long skills took to train just a year ago. Two years ago. Hell, go back 5 years. Remember how rare maxed combat players were, let alone maxed in all stats? Now maxed players flood the game.

 

Jagex is already releasing updates which are allowing people to reach levels faster then ever. (Hi Soul Wars!). Every time they get a group of people complaining about a certain skill/group being left out, they cave in.


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I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation.

 

RuneScape has already been taking baby-steps toward the instant gratification. Look at how long skills took to train just a year ago. Two years ago. Hell, go back 5 years. Remember how rare maxed combat players were, let alone maxed in all stats? Now maxed players flood the game.

 

Jagex is already releasing updates which are allowing people to reach levels faster then ever. (Hi Soul Wars!). Every time they get a group of people complaining about a certain skill/group being left out, they cave in.

Well, the game is almost entirely grind, due to its repetitive and simplistic nature. You grind at low levels to get to high levels, so that you can grind some more until you max a skill. Then you probably never touch that skill again. And in many skills, the stuff you unlock at higher levels is inferior to the stuff at lower levels because of cost or resource limitations (i.e. slow respawns for high-level spots). So you spend even more time grinding the tedious, low-level crap because it is the most efficient way to train. I am not really sure how much that has changed since I quit actively playing, but I doubt it's changed all that much.

 

Getting more to the point, because the game is so "grindy," they feel compelled to "dumb it down" (as some people say) to keep players happy and reduce burn-out. People reminisce about RSC, but few of them remember it-- for all but the super-rich, your fastest exp in RSC was combat and in that you were doing very well to get 40k an hour. If it were like that today, I don't think many people would still play. It's the nature of any game to get easier as it gets older-- the die hard players will be there forever, but to attract new blood they have to dumb it down so that it doesn't seem off-putting in the beginning.


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You achieve more moments of the initial satisfaction but it has less value. (The individual satisfaction is lower for me at least.) It also means we automatically begin to devalue other's achievements, because we believe that person didn't rightly do the work themselves.

 

If you value your time more than playing rs the answer isn't to bot rs, the answer is to not play rs. Very simple.

<Admin Edit: Please do not post accusatory comments. ~n_odie>

 

EDIT: To keep this a sane post..

Soul Wars is indeed bottable and used to be afkable, but I've done a TON of it myself, and know for a fact that if you aren't in a good clan for it, you can't get good xp. And you need to do combat inside on top of the points to reach 80k+ per hour unless maging or -maybe- chinning. During Clan vs Clan Soul Wars, you can get over 300k/h at SW without points :). Well..Maybe not now with bots. Bots in sw made it much easier in a way. Now I'm not sure how it works if it works at all.

 

In all cases, Soul Wars helped me get 99/99/99/99 melees, and I could've easily gotten 4x at once instead of just 3. But aside from that, there was no reason for me to be there, the xp rate isn't high and requires some effort with just pure xp gain. Clan vs Clan SW was fun as hell but it was tough. Stuff can be insane..

Edited by n_odie
Removed Accusatory Comments

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I think its worth fighting to keep the game the way it is, rather than cave to the instant gratification generation.

 

RuneScape has already been taking baby-steps toward the instant gratification. Look at how long skills took to train just a year ago. Two years ago. Hell, go back 5 years. Remember how rare maxed combat players were, let alone maxed in all stats? Now maxed players flood the game.

 

Jagex is already releasing updates which are allowing people to reach levels faster then ever. (Hi Soul Wars!). Every time they get a group of people complaining about a certain skill/group being left out, they cave in.

Its no argument that skills are getting faster, but do you think there would still be tons of maxed players, just due to time spent on the game. There of course wouldn't be as many, but even with the old rates if you're playing 10 hours a day, chances are you'd max over 5+ years of playing. Assuming those 10 hrs are towards leveling. I know not every maxed person plays 10 hours a day, but it sure does seem like the average amount of time spent on rs per day has gone up for the higher level community over the past years.


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This thread isn't for accusing people of botting... if someone expresses a different viewpoint, that may not even be theirs, its just that.... a view point. If you feel someone is admitting to botting, simply report the post and leave it to the moderation staff.

 

Give others the courtesy you would expect when posting your viewpoint.


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Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

 

What the heck does not liking bots have to do with "understanding there is more to life than runescape"? That's an insulting insinuation with very little grounds for saying it.

He is again saying that, runescape requires grinding and people want to enjoy what time they have, so when they bot they can have more enjoyment and less grind. But what is the destination without the journey?

I agree completely with this. If you are not willing to work for your reward, you don't deserve to get any reward. And that is why botting is bad. It's as easy as that.


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What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

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What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

 

 

Yeah I agree every quest requirement should be level 1.


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What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

 

I agree with you on that Jagex have to decrease the grind. To get to much of what you call "the good content" you indeed have to spend a lot of time training your skills. But just because some things like herblore habitat takes a lot of time to be able to use, it doesn't mean that there are other fun, non-grinding activities that you can't do at a low level. There're many, many, many other activities and minigames you can enjoy without having leveled pretty much at all. What about taking your friends for a game of gnomeball, just as an example? Perhaps not the best example, but I think you understand what I mean here.

 

There's plenty of high-level content in RS that is good, but there's also plenty of it for low and medium levels. I can find much of the medium level content just as fun as the high level content. For things like herblore habitat you need to work a bit with the game first. If you don't enjoy to work with your skills, which is one of the main features of RS, perhaps you should try another game? You can't just reap the reward in any game without having worked for it, and herblore habitat is just that.


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Some of these are issues with game design that could be solved. But some of that is simply the way MMOs are designed, and how they attract long term players. Keep in mind that aproximately half the xp for 99 is from 92-99. Yes, some skills take time, but that is the nature of MMOs. The goal is to get you the player invested in their character. If you make it so all the best content is easy to get, you appease some gamers for a little while. Then they get bored and move onto new games.

 

If you instead create balance by requiring time investment, you create emotional attachment to the game. Yes, sometimes grind is an issue. But *most* of the grind is at the higher end. For example 99s. I do not have a single 99, but I have accessed the vast majority of the game's content. In fact, most content can be accessed before 92 *the half way point in terms of exp/time*

 

Do things you do have access to and find enjoyable. You don't have to be the most time efficient. If that means you don't have fun playing rs, try a different game. Or promote jagex to create interesting content at the levels you would like. (This isn't "create content that makes lower time to grind to the so called 'good' content).

 

In terms of good low level content being crashed by higher levels: I do see this as an issue. I believe that Jagex should create systems to allow high+low levels to work together more on some minigames. Also I would like to see instanced bosses where high levels cannot crash out low levels just because of being better at killing monsters. The same goes for spots. Maybe create spots which cannot be accessed past a certain point, (but provide new spots for those players). Sort of like kuradel's dungeon. It is simply better than other slayer spots for certain monsters. It has enough spawns to prevent people from going to more accessible locations. This means that fewer people will crash low levels of their more accessible spots when slaying.

 

I would like to see more updates like these (promote minigame interaction by providing minigames which give both types of players a chance to interact and compete on fair grounds, and providing spots/spawns such that higher level players can't/won't crash low level players with their cannons steel titans etc. Yes, they should be more efficient kph, but that shouldn't impede other player's kph too much.


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Guest jrhairychest

What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

While there's no problem with casual gaming, I don't think it's a good idea to expect to gain access to content unless players spend some time doing the game. I agree with the comments that Platinum made about trying another game. It's obvious that RS doesn't suit everyone . If players feel the need to bot then it doesn't take a genius to work out the game isn't for them.

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What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

While there's no problem with casual gaming, I don't think it's a good idea to expect to gain access to content unless players spend some time doing the game. I agree with the comments that Platinum made about trying another game. It's obvious that RS doesn't suit everyone . If players feel the need to bot then it doesn't take a genius to work out the game isn't for them.

 

If this is the mentality that one brings to any mmorpg, then I don't think simply playing a different one would help. For example, for those that may play WoW instead of, or (as I do) in addition to, RS - why do you have to be level 70 to raid Karazhan? Or, even worse, level 80+ to solo it. What about players that want to casually raid endgame content (even if it's no longer endgame like the example given)? The same issue can be seen with Star Trek Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, etc. (Wow, I just realized how big a geek I actually am.)

 

Anyway, my point is that if you feel you have to cheat through the grind in order to access the "good" parts of the game later, then maybe there's no mmorpg that's right for you-or mmog for that matter. To extend the point with a bit of reducere ad absurdum, why play games at all? One could even make the argument, by the above logic, that digging through the deck in solitaire is not really cheating because the game doesn't "get good" until all the aces are out.


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What about the casual players who like questing or tasks, but not can due said quests or tasks until they reach XX level of what ever skill. Just a recent example for my case, is that you need 81 in hunter to do well in herblore habitat to catch all the jadkinos, and 70 just to start the mini game. The only thing I really wanted was to get the herbs for ju ju farming potion, but to do even do that at a minimum i need 74 hunter which will be a slow catch rate. In this game all the "good" content means getting insanely high levels which means tons of time spent "grinding". I have been playing for a while and just got my first 99 (farming) because I play very casually, but to make good money with farming i need a lot of ju ju farming potions, remote farming, and access to torstols herb. Getting to these levels takes time, which a lot of people don't have. But these people still want to play the game, i just recently am coming close to 74 hunter and got the rest, well because i been playing for years.

 

More examples can made for other money making skills like fishing sharks or rock tails, wood cutting for magics or yew, hunter for chins or pawas, mining for mith/addy/rune or coal, or slayer to get the good drops at fast pace to just name a few. All of these require high levels which take tons of time. And to get the money for good gear you need to do some of these of skills which take time. Then you need to spend more time getting all the other levels you need for quests.

 

What solves this problem is money farmers who sell gold for real cash, or bots.

 

I honestly think no new person to game wants to spend HOURS of grinding just to get to the good content of this game. I tried to get my friends to play and even solving the problem of cash for them (i would give them some of mine, and make them some armor), they hated the fact that they had to grind every skill to get to the quests which were great. A couple of them said i would still play the game if it was a lot easier to level so they can quest and do the tasks. They promptly canceled their membership after 1-2 months because of this. So making the game easier is much needed to attract new players and to make older players happy. I also have canceled my membership at times due to this fact as well, i only keep it going monthly for the loyalty points which kinda makes the game easier for some skills, but takes a ton of time to accumulate the points for the good auras.

 

This is just my opinion and opinions of some friends that used to play the game, but it describes a good casual players perspective.

While there's no problem with casual gaming, I don't think it's a good idea to expect to gain access to content unless players spend some time doing the game. I agree with the comments that Platinum made about trying another game. It's obvious that RS doesn't suit everyone . If players feel the need to bot then it doesn't take a genius to work out the game isn't for them.

 

If this is the mentality that one brings to any mmorpg, then I don't think simply playing a different one would help. For example, for those that may play WoW instead of, or (as I do) in addition to, RS - why do you have to be level 70 to raid Karazhan? Or, even worse, level 80+ to solo it. What about players that want to casually raid endgame content (even if it's no longer endgame like the example given)? The same issue can be seen with Star Trek Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, etc. (Wow, I just realized how big a geek I actually am.)

 

Anyway, my point is that if you feel you have to cheat through the grind in order to access the "good" parts of the game later, then maybe there's no mmorpg that's right for you-or mmog for that matter. To extend the point with a bit of reducere ad absurdum, why play games at all? One could even make the argument, by the above logic, that digging through the deck in solitaire is not really cheating because the game doesn't "get good" until all the aces are out.

Vaguely dismissing botting for a moment, people play games to have fun, and I'm sure that if the journey, so to speak, was as fun or nearly as fun as the destination, no one would mind it. Unfortunately, and I feel this will always be the case, the disparity between actual fun and work required will always be huge relative to what most people who start this games' expectations. What people consider work in RuneScape is subjective, as well. For example, many people entirely detest Agility, considering it work (a grind). I personally don't consider Agility fun, but relaxing, which makes it tolerable at times.

 

I'd like to paraphrase Omali in saying that many of the people who start RuneScape have little to no previous MMORPG credentials (myself included, from when I started til now) because it's easy to find and access. This does not [automatically] make someone who doesn't want to spend time leveling a casual gamer, but rather someone who is not used to the expectations of MMOs.

There's a huge wealth of very low-level content which might actually be detrimental in that it could spoil new players into thinking the entire game was laid out in front of them. When they realize this isn't the case, they'll (as Doomdevil's friends did) give up because RS didn't meet their expectations of a fun:work ratio that could be more easily gained in a different game or activity. However, that "ratio" is different for every person and can definitely change over time, usually tied directly to the amount of leisure time one has.

Further on this tangent of thinking, people who do bot probably only do so once this "ratio" as I've described it is no longer met. I'd suspect actually that one would only turn to botting AFTER having achieved their first 99 or other high skills legitimately, reveling in the gratifying feeling gained from such, and then realizing that they did not enjoy the journey and don't wish to repeat it with another skill.

 

It truly is a desire for instant gratification that does people in, but not quite in the sense that I think most people have come to understand it. Rather, if a player doesn't enjoy doing something in RuneScape but feels it must be done to access some content they think they will enjoy, they'll most likely try to remove that blockage all at once and as quickly as possible, which is actually the worse thing they could do. Instead, if someone doesn't like something but feels obligated to do it, they should do a little at a time, while switching between that activity and others which they DO enjoy. I believe it's only the people who get burnt out that feel they must have a program play for them to continue.

 

If anything, RuneScape is a gateway MMO. It really takes a different mindset (that I've admittedly developed over the years of playing RS, but only for RS) to spend 5, 10, 20, 30, 60 minutes effectively accomplishing nothing of substantial value (in the context of the game) despite actively participating the entire time and then being "okay" with that result.


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The biggest problem with bots is how to discourage them, with it taking so long to accomplish something in this game you either need to play a lot, or bot it so you can catch up to the people who've already started. Area Specific leader boards, or monthly gain highscores, such as tracker sites today, might relieve some players to not feel the need the bot to be competitive. However making faster xp gains, to get shorter 99s, or higher ranks on the highscores only upset older players, and don't encourage other players at all. Getting rid of botting is impossible, however discouraging it is attainable to reduce it.

 

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I think some of the issues is the player base also. Even in the way guides for content is written. "High level" is now 138 combat with 96 herblore, because that is the most efficient. This leads to situations where a player who is perfectly capable of solo'ing a gwd general gets out damaged by someone better who crashes. So the player decides that he needs higher (x) and feels that he can't obtain it on his own.

 

I like Donate's suggestion: A jagex official tracker for the highscores which shows top xp skill gains per day and per month, with fancy graphs like normal trackers. Being official means exposure to more players. It would give other players some time in the limelight :) (Could have daily and monthly trackers as well.) Keep monthly trackers to show all xp gained in that month reset each month.

 

Also getting rid of bots is not proven impossible but it is improbable. What happens when there is a bot which can mimic human behavior exactly? (Turing Test concept). Then you can't 'detect' it without finding a case where it breaks, or detecting humans as bots. (False positives must be avoided here...)


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Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014
Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014

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I wonder how many botters were effectively banned with the last bot nuke, as opposed to how many were rolled back and how many were pardoned.

 

If they had banned the lot of them, every single player that botted, would that have had the desired effect of, at least, effectively altering the mind-set of those players who bot their characters so they can achieve higher stats and quicker access to end game play?

 

Most likely not. As has been pointed out, theres far too many people today who want the short-cuts and its not just the game players, either. How many people do you know IRL whove been duped by some or other get-rich-quick scheme? I personally know more than my fair share. And these arent kids, and theyre not stupid (generally speaking). Yet, time and again, they fall for some idea because it offers them a quick reward only to find out that theres no instant cash at the end of that rainbow, either.

 

Is it a flaw in basic human nature to want to always want and take the easy path? I am beginning to think so.

 

[segway]

Oddly enough, its always interesting to see the number of people in the game who asks my stat in [skill x] and, after being told its 99, respond with the word, Lucky.

 

Its not luck that got me that skill. I worked on it. Yet it seems to me that theyre importing some idea that I achieved that skill level by some immediate stroke of pure luck.

 

I dunno, it seems like an odd response to me and yet it correlates with the above idea that, if you could get a lucky quick fix, you could achieve these skills in short order with minimal work

[/segway]

 

:unsure:


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