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England Riots


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#41
rocc0
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It would be the opposite of effective. More riots would come out of it. If you shoot those rioters, you threaten to turn the entire country into chaos. People don't just sit down when their brothers and sisters are killed in cold blood.

And here is where I disagree.

It's one thing if you're rioting with some greater purpose. These rioters, by and large, are not. The majority of them are stupid kids looking to cause trouble - and I'm sorry, but no one is stupid enough to risk their life over a bag of rice.

Would there be outcry? Absolutely. But if it were to be well broadcast beforehand that this would occur, no one has the right to complain.

If you start shooting teenagers in the streets, you'll give them a real reason to riot. No one is willing to risk their lives over a bag of rice, but once you start shooting people it'll be about more than looting, it'll be about chucking molotovs at cops.

Last time I checked, petty thieves and arsonists aren't usually publicly executed by firing squad...

TANSTAAFL


#42
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Well these riots can't simply be about some guys dieing in Tottenham, can it? I mean that's the tip of the iceberg but there have to have been some serious underlying causes for this to happen. Again, just the measures imposed by the gouvernment i don't think could have caused this. Something different must have sparked the initial riot.

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#43
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I'm not too sure it would work. While it would quell most of the violence, it seems barbaric which would be, in my opinion, stooping to the looters' level. As long as these rioters aren't using guns of their own, I don't see the need for riot police to use their own guns on them. Over the long-term it would create more dissent among the populace than using other methods of riot control.

Hold on a minute here - you're proving something other than what I was saying.

I'm not condoning shooting looters nor calling it ethical. I'm saying it would be effective in ending the riots.

No, I'm saying that if these riots are stopped with extreme violence on the part of the police, the riots will not end. They might stop for a day or two, but not for good. Which is why I said it would create long-term dissent among the populace.

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#44
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.

#45
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.


So people went out and started rioting just because they saw others do it on tv? That would be just...stupid...

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#46
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Shooting at masses of people because some of them are looting would be a great way to shoot innocent people trying to make their way home or to work or school, or watching/photographing the tumult, or protesting legally & peacefully, or whatever.

I suspect that's the reason civilized countries are often hesitant to start shooting at looters. It seems likely to me that a policy of simply shooting looters in crowded urban areas would lead to a lot of injuries and deaths of people who were not looting.

I am also skeptical that it would calm the riots down.

#47
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If you start shooting teenagers in the streets, you'll give them a real reason to riot. No one is willing to risk their lives over a bag of rice, but once you start shooting people it'll be about more than looting, it'll be about chucking molotovs at cops.

Last time I checked, petty thieves and arsonists aren't usually publicly executed by firing squad...


Why aren't they violently reacting to people being arrested then? Or at least moreso then they already were?


No, I'm saying that if these riots are stopped with extreme violence on the part of the police, the riots will not end. They might stop for a day or two, but not for good. Which is why I said it would create long-term dissent among the populace.


I disagree.

If people are made well aware that actions have consequences, there is nothing they can do BUT stop.

That's like saying because they put people in jail for looting the riots will continue and breed long term dissent.

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#48
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If you start shooting teenagers in the streets, you'll give them a real reason to riot. No one is willing to risk their lives over a bag of rice, but once you start shooting people it'll be about more than looting, it'll be about chucking molotovs at cops.

Last time I checked, petty thieves and arsonists aren't usually publicly executed by firing squad...


Why aren't they violently reacting to people being arrested then? Or at least moreso then they already were?

Because being violently murdered is different than being arrested for stealing?

TANSTAAFL


#49
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Let me clarify my position. (for everyone discussing with me)

I realize it's unethical.

I realize it's impractical.

I realize it won't and shouldn't ever happen.

But I also realize it would be a hell of a lot more effective than running away holding a plastic shield in front of your face.

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#50
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.


So people went out and started rioting just because they saw others do it on tv? That would be just...stupid...


Surely you aren't suggesting there is a sound logic behind the rioting? Of course people saw it and reciprocated in Birmingham, Nottingham and elsewhere. The media was branding the police as useless, and like someone said before, rioting is about the power it gives people and if they can see that there is little being done to stop it then it gives them a reason to go out and do it themselves.

#51
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.


So people went out and started rioting just because they saw others do it on tv? That would be just...stupid...


People are... Stupid

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#52
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Let me clarify my position. (for everyone discussing with me)

I realize it's unethical.

I realize it's impractical.

I realize it won't and shouldn't ever happen.

But I also realize it would be a hell of a lot more effective than running away holding a plastic shield in front of your face.

No, see, that's why you're wrong. Holding a plastic shield doesn't directly make the problem any worse. Murdering people makes the problem a hundred times worse every time you do it.

a) it gives them a perfectly legitimate justification
b) it makes people who would have otherwise stayed at home join the rioting
c) it makes people who might have just run around yelling and shoving or stealing want to directly attack the police
d) potentially killing innocent people would make the rioting even worse

your post is the equivalent of "why do we spend time fighting in iraq? we should just nuke them."

TANSTAAFL


#53
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No, I'm saying that if these riots are stopped with extreme violence on the part of the police, the riots will not end. They might stop for a day or two, but not for good. Which is why I said it would create long-term dissent among the populace.


I disagree.

If people are made well aware that actions have consequences, there is nothing they can do BUT stop.

That's like saying because they put people in jail for looting the riots will continue and breed long term dissent.

No, it's not like saying that. Putting someone in jail is a logical decision for rioting and looting and people that riot and loot are aware of that. The public is aware of this as well. Shooting rioters and looters is not logical nor is it effective. Even if the rioters and looters are in the wrong, that is not the way the populace will interpret it. They will see it as police shooting citizens and things will get worse.

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#54
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I live in Kingston, regularly travel to Clapham, and my other house is near Croydon. Basically, it's actually quite scary.

I know most of the attacks are aimed at businesses, but some criminals have entered peoples homes.

Really hoping that this isn't the case, especially since I'm heading to Clapham on Friday night.

#55
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It's all good, I've seen that there are riots, but I haven't seen why. Anyone care to tell me?


They're getting their taxes back

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#56
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@everyone in the London area - stay safe and let's hope [cabbage] gets back together ASAP.

really hope that nothing kicks off up here in Norwich. :/

#57
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Bad words

Scumbags everywhere.
Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can
Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?
Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?
Camera guy: still laughing
Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy
Camera guy: runs away still laughing
Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down
Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!
Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

#58
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.

I actually find this to be true. If the riots hadn't been beamed into the media 24/7 for the last three days until they seem almost glamourised, do you think it'd be spreading? It's putting ideas in people's heads. Who can't think 'I could go for a new x, if they can do it without police stopping them (which is pretty much all the news has been saying. looters going unpunished, not enough police) then there are people out there immoral and desperate enough. I don't BLAME the media but they're not helping!

Small pockets of trouble in Salford & Manchester, I really hope it doesn't kick off into a major riot and, if it does, they stay the [bleep] away from my Primark!


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#59
SirHartlar
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.

I actually find this to be true. If the riots hadn't been beamed into the media 24/7 for the last three days until they seem almost glamourised, do you think it'd be spreading? It's putting ideas in people's heads. Who can't think 'I could go for a new x, if they can do it without police stopping them (which is pretty much all the news has been saying. looters going unpunished, not enough police) then there are people out there immoral and desperate enough. I don't BLAME the media but they're not helping!

Small pockets of trouble in Salford & Manchester, I really hope it doesn't kick off into a major riot and, if it does, they stay the [bleep] away from my Primark!


Primark often looks like theres been a riot in there anyways. ;)

#60
Racheya
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One of the most frustrating things for me is the constant stream of footage and information the media is pumping out on a twenty four hour scale. It is probably one of the key reasons there have been copycat riots in other parts of the UK other than London and I find it very hypocritical of institutions like the BBC berating politicians for not doing enough and having caused the problem by the cuts they've made when in reality the media has probably done the most to aggravate the situation.

I actually find this to be true. If the riots hadn't been beamed into the media 24/7 for the last three days until they seem almost glamourised, do you think it'd be spreading? It's putting ideas in people's heads. Who can't think 'I could go for a new x, if they can do it without police stopping them (which is pretty much all the news has been saying. looters going unpunished, not enough police) then there are people out there immoral and desperate enough. I don't BLAME the media but they're not helping!

Small pockets of trouble in Salford & Manchester, I really hope it doesn't kick off into a major riot and, if it does, they stay the [bleep] away from my Primark!


Primark often looks like theres been a riot in there anyways. ;)

Haha, very very true.

Seriously though, Manchester city centre is a great place and all I can think is of how much vulnerable glass there is in the Arndale alone. I would be furious if this spreads to Manchester properly.


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