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Tip.It Times - 21st August 2011


Racheya

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

1. You are invited and welcome to express like or dislike on articles and a particular author's writing style. It is not acceptable, however, to flame or personally insult an author. Posts that aren't anything but an attack will be removed from the topic.

 

2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

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When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

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yay we are all going to die. oh wait. yeah the game has been infested with bots and jagex isnt exactly doing what i would call their job but as long as i need to kill time ill play.

 

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That was a good read. I just renewed my membership a few days ago because I have some "unfinished business" within the game. It wasn't until I had a slayer task at the TzHaar area that I realized how bad of a problem the bots really are. Every single location I've been to outside of Kuradal's dungeon has been just filled to the brim with identical copies, just botting forever. Granite platebody, Dragon med, Dragon legs. I would rather lose free trade and the wilderness again than see the game continue down this path, because this path appears to be leading it to its death.

 

For some reason, when I look at the current state of Jagex and RuneScape, I see a "corrupt government" that has no control over it's own downfall, and when they see their "citizens" acting out, protesting, and speaking out against that "government," their only course of action is to ban people, shut down any negative feedback, and put on a facade that everything's fine and it's going the exact path they want.

 

I'm kind of grasping at straws with that, but it's what I see.

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WOW, really disappointing articles this week. Yes, thank you, we know Jagex is messed up and bots are rampant and the game is dying and etc. etc. I used to like reading the Tip.it Times because it talked about exciting happy things, or at least debated some interesting issues. Now every week I get to try and decide which of the articles was most depressing. The only positive thing about this Times was the trip down memory lawn in the first article. The rest of it just made me unhappy.

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with all due respect, the second author did not really read the information too closely - the situation is actually worse.

 

For one:

 

"After all, itd be very easy to just make accounts from a different IP address each week to get your 10% XP boost (if Jagex are even monitoring IP addresses, that is)."

 

Not only do Jagex not monitor IP adresses, they don't even try to discourage people referring themselves. It's actually even neatly described in the FAQ on how to do that. They are aware of it and don't care or even want it that way(as only few legit new players would sign up within two weeks)

 

Also "People also go on about how lucky we are that there are no micro-transactions in RS, which is true."

 

We DO have microtranscations in the game now. They don't have to be used that way, and they're limited but it's still microtransactions.

People pay Money to Jagex for bonus xp - that's a micrtransaction, no talking around it.

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To the first article: finely written, but as I don't know the typical lifespan of content development at Jagex aside from their really big projects, we may be hard up for endgame players for quite a while...not the issue with your article, but I've still got the same empty feeling I've had for years.

 

To the second article: Isn't it convenient how they've actually named some of their features "distractions and diversions"?

 

In the meanwhile, I hope that you all will refrain from berating the writers for "rehashing" but frankly if they don't post every week, then when time comes for the important stuff we won't have anything to speak with! Also, because people do not regularly participate in forum discussion, the times provides a convenient summarizing device that can reach even those who refuse to communicate with us in any way whatsoever (like for instance, Jagex staff members).

 

On an always unrelated note, I know I take every opportunity to preach about my ideas for sweeping change and that nobody ever cares, but perhaps you all will be desperate enough to read it some day. Unfortunately by then it may be too late.

 

Cheers!

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In the meanwhile, I hope that you all will refrain from berating the writers for "rehashing" but frankly if they don't post every week, then when time comes for the important stuff we won't have anything to speak with!

 

This made little sense to me.

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Well, if they stop making articles on a regular basis, then we forget that we even have a times, and then when people finally want a times again, it won't be there. Writers out of practice and whatnot.

 

They're not really writing to make you "happy" in every article...if they were, they would be as bad as Jagex, trying to turn your attention away from the real problems of the game. I guess you might want more fictional stories?

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Well, if they stop making articles on a regular basis, then we forget that we even have a times, and then when people finally want a times again, it won't be there. Writers out of practice and whatnot.

 

They're not really writing to make you "happy" in every article...if they were, they would be as bad as Jagex, trying to turn your attention away from the real problems of the game. I guess you might want more fictional stories?

It's a bit hard to find a happy topic when the top threads in general are about bots, Andrew selling the game, bots, Jiblix being demodded over bots, the RAF program, and Jagex's eventual Transformers MMO, which presumably incorporates (auto)bots. :razz:

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WOW, really disappointing articles this week. Yes, thank you, we know Jagex is messed up and bots are rampant and the game is dying and etc. etc. I used to like reading the Tip.it Times because it talked about exciting happy things, or at least debated some interesting issues. Now every week I get to try and decide which of the articles was most depressing. The only positive thing about this Times was the trip down memory lawn in the first article. The rest of it just made me unhappy.

 

Authors tend to write about what is on their mind, and it is rather hard to keep finding topics that are hardly discussed and eternally happy. It's not as easy as flipping a switch turning inspiration on, so if you have some suggestions I'm sure any author would be more than happy and work on it. :)

 

As far as this week's articles are concerned, I agree with the below.

There is one, radical, solution that’s pretty easy to see. Turn back the clock, get rid of Free Trade & PvP again and next time you try to bring it back again, Jagex, actually have a strategy in place to deal with bots. One that works this time.

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WOW, really disappointing articles this week. Yes, thank you, we know Jagex is messed up and bots are rampant and the game is dying and etc. etc. I used to like reading the Tip.it Times because it talked about exciting happy things, or at least debated some interesting issues. Now every week I get to try and decide which of the articles was most depressing. The only positive thing about this Times was the trip down memory lawn in the first article. The rest of it just made me unhappy.

 

Authors tend to write about what is on their mind, and it is rather hard to keep finding topics that are hardly discussed and eternally happy. It's not as easy as flipping a switch turning inspiration on, so if you have some suggestions I'm sure any author would be more than happy and work on it. :)

 

As far as this week's articles are concerned, I agree with the below.

There is one, radical, solution thats pretty easy to see. Turn back the clock, get rid of Free Trade & PvP again and next time you try to bring it back again, Jagex, actually have a strategy in place to deal with bots. One that works this time.

 

 

Personally, I was slightly disappointed to read the new articles this week as well. However, isn't it telling when there is little else to talk about? That these problems with the game are so at the forefront of our minds that finding something to talk about that doesn't bring up those things is difficult?

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WOW, really disappointing articles this week. Yes, thank you, we know Jagex is messed up and bots are rampant and the game is dying and etc. etc. I used to like reading the Tip.it Times because it talked about exciting happy things, or at least debated some interesting issues. Now every week I get to try and decide which of the articles was most depressing. The only positive thing about this Times was the trip down memory lawn in the first article. The rest of it just made me unhappy.

 

Authors tend to write about what is on their mind, and it is rather hard to keep finding topics that are hardly discussed and eternally happy. It's not as easy as flipping a switch turning inspiration on, so if you have some suggestions I'm sure any author would be more than happy and work on it. :)

 

As far as this week's articles are concerned, I agree with the below.

There is one, radical, solution thats pretty easy to see. Turn back the clock, get rid of Free Trade & PvP again and next time you try to bring it back again, Jagex, actually have a strategy in place to deal with bots. One that works this time.

 

 

Personally, I was slightly disappointed to read the new articles this week as well. However, isn't it telling when there is little else to talk about? That these problems with the game are so at the forefront of our minds that finding something to talk about that doesn't bring up those things is difficult?

 

Enh. The Temple Trekking revamp comes to mind. Not that I'm sure what I would write if I tried to do an article on it.

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Are people here new to the internet or something?

Or does playing this game make one dumber by the minute?

 

Referral programs exist everywhere on the internet and I never thought I would see the day, where a community gets its panties all tied up in a knot, over something like a referral program, or an insignificant weapon (Katana) being introduced.

 

The bonuses are an obvious incentive to ensure the referral program is used by some and if you, dear reader, get uptight because somebody is gaining 10% more exp but at the same time paying for it, you need to take good long look at yourself.

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Are people here new to the internet or something?

Or does playing this game make one dumber by the minute?

 

Referral programs exist everywhere on the internet and I never thought I would see the day, where a community gets its panties all tied up in a knot, over something like a referral program, or an insignificant weapon (Katana) being introduced.

 

The bonuses are an obvious incentive to ensure the referral program is used by some and if you, dear reader, get uptight because somebody is gaining 10% more exp but at the same time paying for it, you need to take good long look at yourself.

 

Clearly you, dear reader, didn't read the full program. Jagex essentially said they encourage you to make throwaway accounts just for the purpose of getting the 10% bonus. If that doesn't sound like a micro-transaction to you, maybe you need to give your head a shake. MLP? Everyone who is a member has access to it anyways, so you could argue it's fair. Ornate Katana? While it is clearly a microtransaction, it was a largely cosmetic item. But this? There is no way you can argue this doesn't violate the no RWT policy, which states no player should be able to buy their way to success.

 

As for the actual articles, both were good reads, if not a little redundant.

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Are people here new to the internet or something?

Or does playing this game make one dumber by the minute?

 

Referral programs exist everywhere on the internet and I never thought I would see the day, where a community gets its panties all tied up in a knot, over something like a referral program, or an insignificant weapon (Katana) being introduced.

 

The bonuses are an obvious incentive to ensure the referral program is used by some and if you, dear reader, get uptight because somebody is gaining 10% more exp but at the same time paying for it, you need to take good long look at yourself.

 

Referral programs are nothing new, and using them is a legitmate way to expand a site's userbase. But a referral program that blatantly states that you can "refer" yourself (thus does not really attract new users), and is so easily abused IS something new.

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All I can say is a very good read. Luckily I canceled my membership before free trade arrived and haven't logged (except for the easter event) since. It's sad to see that bots are stronger than ever and that the largest part of them are owned by gold sellers.

 

I guess I'll simply continue not playing/paying.

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Well, if they stop making articles on a regular basis, then we forget that we even have a times, and then when people finally want a times again, it won't be there. Writers out of practice and whatnot.

 

They're not really writing to make you "happy" in every article...if they were, they would be as bad as Jagex, trying to turn your attention away from the real problems of the game. I guess you might want more fictional stories?

 

Dude, (may I call you dude?) I don't care whether the articles makes me happy or not, heck it could make me down right mad, and least that would be more of an active emotion opposed to the passive yuck of the depressed feeling I get when I read Jagex = fail issues. Perhaps Jagex still makes you frequently, as I'm sure they do to many others, but I'm tired of being angry at Jagex. When I hear abut their "mistakes" it just makes me sigh sadly. I'd much rather be angry at something I disagree with then angry at Jagex. Make me happy, scare me, impress me, inspire me, but don't tell me more about Jagex. Let's face it, Jagex bashing has become an official sport. I guess I personally have just decided to retire.

 

WOW, really disappointing articles this week. Yes, thank you, we know Jagex is messed up and bots are rampant and the game is dying and etc. etc. I used to like reading the Tip.it Times because it talked about exciting happy things, or at least debated some interesting issues. Now every week I get to try and decide which of the articles was most depressing. The only positive thing about this Times was the trip down memory lawn in the first article. The rest of it just made me unhappy.

 

Authors tend to write about what is on their mind, and it is rather hard to keep finding topics that are hardly discussed and eternally happy. It's not as easy as flipping a switch turning inspiration on, so if you have some suggestions I'm sure any author would be more than happy and work on it. :)

 

As far as this week's articles are concerned, I agree with the below.

There is one, radical, solution that’s pretty easy to see. Turn back the clock, get rid of Free Trade & PvP again and next time you try to bring it back again, Jagex, actually have a strategy in place to deal with bots. One that works this time.

 

 

Personally, I was slightly disappointed to read the new articles this week as well. However, isn't it telling when there is little else to talk about? That these problems with the game are so at the forefront of our minds that finding something to talk about that doesn't bring up those things is difficult?

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I'm still disappointed, though not suprised, at the bot situation in RS with the return of free trade. Jagex CEO loudly claimed that RS had an easy handle on the situation, then quickly it's apparant they had nothing that was streamlined enough to automatically stop the bots.

 

As for the referral program, don't be so dramatic about it. First, members itself is a micro transaction. So now somebody, if they're desparate, can pay $40 (five throwaway member accounts) to get 5 weeks of 10% boosts. However, it also allows the legitimate player that's making a secondary character with a nifty boost for a week till level 30 in skills. Personally, it's a minor tradeoff.

 

Yes, we're not stupid. We all know it's a money game. The same thing happened with the member rewards program. Still, last I checked, Jagex is a for profit business.

 

All that said, I'd still love for them to create a group of isolated member servers where only new characters can play on (no GE, no alchemy, cannot log onto non-new servers). Seriously, if I'm going to start a new character, I'd love it to be on a group of servers that doesn't have 10 years of economic and bug damage to it.

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QUICK DISCLAIMER: I read much of the RSOF topic that Croce referenced, more especially the pages he specifically referenced.

 

Now, re: Crocefisso's and Racheya's articles, it's time for a blast from the past, yep, back in the Tip.It Times archive itself:

 

The Nightmare of Working for Customer Service, by Hugh_Mannity

 

Bear with me, Tip.It-- a "devil's advocate" argument is classically recognized as part of a serious and thoughtful debate. I'll summarize and briefly quote as best I can. Emphasis is mine. This article appeared a little over 5 years ago, on the first week of April 2006.

 

From reading the forums' date=' it would appear that Jagex has a customer service problem.[/quote']

 

Paying attention? Remember that? There was concerns about customer service five years ago, a time that some players with short memories considered a "golden" age-- or at least when they were complaining about the loss of the Wilderness and Free Trade, before they were both restored.

 

Jagex probably never expected RS to take off the way it has. They probably expected a few tens of thousands of players world wide, and maybe a dozen or so servers world wide... Instead they've found themselves with (my best guess) upwards of 2 million accounts, and with somewhere between 80,000 and 150,000 players on line at any time on well over 100 servers worldwide. They've been successful beyond their wildest dreams and now they're stuck with a very large demon to feed...

 

...But keeping 2million players in line is like herding 2million cats. It's virtually impossible. There'll always be scammers, rule breakers, rule benders, people who enjoy spoiling others' play. There'll always be cheats and people who'd rather buy success than earn it. That's life: hence customer service.

 

It should be noted that Randall Munroe of the webcomic xkcd has suggested managing the entire Internet would be like herding cats-- specifically LOLcats.

(http://xkcd.com/494/ if you're curious) Seriously, though, in the time I've been playing Runescape since about 2003 or so, I've seen a lot of players blame Jagex-- but who aren't willing to take a lick of blame themselves. Quoting further:

 

I've done Tech Supportit's soul-destroying. Spending all day every day listening to people who've done something stupid and as a result are angry (especially when they know they messed up and don't want to admit it), or people who can't follow instructions, or people who think they're entitled to whatever they want, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, will drive even a strong man to drink...

...I think a lot of the customer service problems arise from the huge number of young people playing the game. They get swept up in the play, they don't really take notice of the rules and then when the rules jump up and bite them, they make a fuss.

 

Please, if you're thinking up a statement of "I know plenty of OTHER players who are guilty of that, but *I* have never made mistakes as such," spare me. I would hope that there has been plenty of ample and obvious evidence that some players who have whined the hardest were the ones that were messing up the hardest, too. And I say this as I freely admit that as far as the community, I've often been a cynical, anti-social curmudgeon. I've told people repeatedly that no matter how coveted Player Moderator status has been or will be, if Jagex offered it to me-- I'd say no every single time. (On that, I have thoughts about how the role of pmod has changed from volunteer cop to social barfly-- but that's for a later time.) So I know I'm not contributing as directly to the game as I could... but I just don't want the attention.

 

But if you'd like to see the very real scars on my back that are evidence of my pain and invasive surgery (to deal with such)-- let me know privately. There IS a real reason that I am grumpy... although it doesn't excuse the most caustic of my remarks.

 

So, before you all jump on the beat-up-on-Jagex-Customer-Support bandwagon, remember, customer support is a difficult job. The customer support reps are hugely outnumbered by their customers. They do their job to the best of their ability and by the rules that Jagex has laid out for them...

...If you've never, ever in your life made a mistake or a misjudgment, then maybe you're entitled to criticize Jagex, but the rest of us need to take a chill pill, and get on with playing the game by the rules. That way, Jagex can get out from under the deluge of whining and complaining and concentrate on making the game better and dealing with the difficulties so much success so quickly brings to a company.

 

And I quote this while saying that the RSOF thread was VERY well thought out and discussed. I am suggesting, however, that the community should also take a hard look at itself. "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone..." is an old saying by a certain man of Nazareth-- whether you are part of his ancient fan club or not-- wouldn't that apply? How many really are well qualified to criticize Jagex? How many players whining about updates are studying to be developers, coders, programmers... or at least are trying to think like such when they complain? How many players complaining about customer service are actually economic or business students?

 

Moving on...

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Jagex doesn't need a corporate overhaulget in a few veteran management types to look at their business systems and rebuild them in a more efficient and cost-effective manner.

 

DING-DONG... hey, whattya know, I'd say that's PRECISELY what is happening right now. Don't get me wrong; I do think that Andrew, Paul, and Constant leaving the board DID change a lot of things drastically. I think their personal touch is probably gone, and gone for good. (Then again, not everyone was terribly satisfied even then, back in the early days when Paul and Andrew *were* very plugged in.) But I think you should look at the upside, Tip.It. I was there when Andrew made his lawsuit threat here, as I have said recently and a number of times before. I'll continue to say w13 of Zybez was a real jerk to take advantage when the veiled backhand came-- i.e. a major fansite was accused by Jagex in a press release to be leaking passwords-- and w13 basically said, "Ha ha, that ain't us-- that's Tip.It!"

 

Just like Google, Microsoft and some other corporations-- Jagex is starting to grow into a corporation-- and of course come the accusations of money-grubbing. In a word, folks, some of that comes with the territory. (Yes, Google is criticized despite their efforts to retain the moral high ground.)

 

I could go on... but I will leave it at that. Maybe I'll come back and hash out my thoughts some more. We'll see. I continue to enjoy reading the Tip.It Times, but I *am* very disappointed that the articles have become very subjective and emotional in tone, when I think the real argument should be much more nuanced.

 

+1 if you managed to read through all of my ramblings, by the way.

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It's already been said that the Times' articles this week are a rehash of the topics about these weeks updates so I'm not going to comment on that, although they were an ok read. Just something I noticed, Racheya's brother is only 11 and as such shouldn't even be able to see the autotypers, naughty naughty...

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So i quit sometime last summer. i've been lurking the "200m exp" topic every couple of months or so and that's about it.

 

what's the history of the Gowers leaving the board?

what's this lawsuit thing?

how are off-site clans doing, how long are their returning fights?

what other significant events than free trade/ wildy have come about over the last year?

 

 

at first glance, it looks like runescape (the community died before dungeoneering) is finally dying for solo gamers too. is that really the case?

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When you look at the entire history of the game, the ONLY thing I truly blame Jagex for is this:

 

They basically admitted defeat in the war on bots (MMG's statement), yet claimed they had new and improved methods to detect and ban them that would be implemented the same day that Free Trade and the Wilderness was reinstated... That has been a blatent lie, and therefor said reinstatements should not have happened...

 

Argue what you will, but the period of 2008 to 2010 was simply better...

 

Few people would have minded half as much game updates happened (due to diminished customer base), if it meant that the game would've been at least playable...

If in such a time the Refer-a-Friend and Loyalty Programme were put in place, the accusations of Jagex being a moneygrabbing corporation would've died out much quicker...

 

Jiblix pointed it out in his video, and I'm afraid I have to disagree with Rach on that...

New players come into RuneScape, see the mess, and will question themselves on why they should ever subscribe = lost customer

If that mess (see my previous arguments on how and why) wasn't there, that player will stick around longer simply because the game is playable, and is therefor not a lost, but a potential customer...

 

If you're talking about the long term future of a company, that means you don't squeeze every little penny from the current player/customer base, but instead make sure that your playerbase is continually replenished while keeping the current playerbase as loyal as possible without forcing (I use the term loosely) them into it...

 

That is all...

 

PS: Most of this is a reply to Jaklumen's post btw :)

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I could care less about the RAF and stuff. My biggest issue is the BOTS. God I'm so SICK of BOTS. I agree with many; I'd rather lose free trade and wildy again than deal with the growing bot population. Walk through Varrock east, and can't move for like 20 seconds because of the bot lag. And God forbid, someone also be there firemaking. Might as well just reboot the computer. Yeah maybe others have super computers that don't have that problem, but I'm willing to bet a majority of people have lag issues due to the horrendous bots.

 

I mean they've even got mini games and DUNGEONEERING bots to a science. Where's the fun in ANY of that? Me personally, I don't see a point to cheat. So what if you're maxed in RS, and have a Phat set when you tell people "Yo, I botted this [cabbage]."

 

...?

 

Have a little pride in the account you're playing and earn your levels and items. It's far more rewarding that way. I understand some bots are gold farmers and their interest in botting is not the bragging rights, but the RL cash to be earned. Jagex just needs to step in and ban. I mean when they ban a bot and let the account be unlocked with a payment (not sure of the details on this but I've seen it mentioned), they OBVIOUSLY are not that "wholeheartedly against botting."

 

C'mon Jagex, get real. We can see through it all. This game is getting very hard to even want to log into anymore. Lag and economy crappiness from bots just really take away any want to play the game. Hell you can't even train at ghouls for champion scrolls without bots there. And don't get me started on areas like the slayer cave (basilisks). Sigh. Bots are my BIGGEST pet peeve with this game at the moment. A very rehashed issue, but if they'd FIX it, rehashings wouldn't be necessary! We've been handed nothing but a bag of lies as the player base, from the big corporation.

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If you're talking about the long term future of a company, that means you don't squeeze every little penny from the current player/customer base, but instead make sure that your playerbase is continually replenished while keeping the current playerbase as loyal as possible without forcing (I use the term loosely) them into it...

 

I do see what you're saying but my cynical take really is that Jagex is addressing their shareholders. That is the evil but very bitter reality of corporations.

 

But I also take the player complaints with a boulder-sized grain of salt, because the community has got a very bad rep of complaining bitterly without serious and nuanced persuasive tactics. I do appreciate that Croce linked to the RSOF thread because it does seem like a notable exception. Too little, too late... or am I just delving deep into the philosophical implications of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" vs. "the nail that sticks out the farthest gets pounded down first"?

 

I feel like I am repeating myself over and over again. I am constantly amazed how entitled some players can act like-- again, "Jagex's poo stinks, but mine doesn't". Even when there is a chance that their argument might be won, I really don't see anyone saying "players might be contributing to the problem -- even someone like me".

 

Just the other day I found a player proudly waving around screenshots of evidence that he'd corrupted a pmod to break rules and abuse powers. C'mon, really? (Not to mention-- must I really put them up? Because I most certainly can... although I'd have to edit out a lot of stuff.) I mean, where is the justification in that, or that I hear rumors that players feel the need to put up ASCII drawings of genitalia all over the Rants section of the RSOF? Is someone really going to tell me players are justified?

 

Most advice I've read about dealing with companies, when you feel you've been wronged, says something to the effect that complaints should be respectful and to the point. I'm sorry, but I don't see sufficient evidence that this is what players are doing overall or even on average.

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