Tip.It Times - 4th September 2011 (Jiblix Interview)

[Pinta77]

It is definitely interesting. The part I found most interesting was when he said he was pulled out of the game multiple times to patrol a thread or something, and that it wasn't fair. I have to disagree with that. Maybe Jagex isn't 100% truthful with what is expected and required of you as a moderator, but you have to remamber that any and all player/forum moderators can quit whenever, and I honestly have never heard of a moderator willingly resigning.

 

Think to yourself right now, if you were a moderator right this second, would you complain? I would venture to say that a lot of people wouldn't. Maybe it isn't fair to do a ton of Jagex's work for them, but no one is being forced to. And if the player is happy, and it is helping make runescape a better game, then I think the way the moderators are being treated is fine.

[jasignhagj]

You want to start cutting down on bots, then cut into what they do: make the game less tedious. Since it's clear Jagex is edging closer to all out real world trading anyway.

 

I want to see a P2P feature where you can put your character to sleep when you log out and it gains experience in a skill of your choice at a high rate while you're offline. The downside's obviously no loot or gold.

 

Want to knock out the gold farmers? Host a gold service. The focus won't be entirely on selling the gold itself for pennies per million, but the customer service - less risk of hacking, easy transactions and guaranteed security.

 

With that implemented, they can provide players with a way to pay membership through gold - something on the order of hundreds of millions of gp for a month's worth of membership.

 

The game's focus would then become less material and skill-level oriented leaning more toward activities that clans do, like turf battles for a measly crop of rune rocks.

 

If this all sounds familiar, then take a wild guess what other MMO does this and has been doing well in its niche.

 

I strongly disagree with this. Just because you enjoy the clan warring side for the game doesn't mean that others don't enjoy skilling or the myriad of other activities you can do in Runescape.

[Andregiant]

Re: Interview with Jiblix

 

I have more than half a century on this earth, and I have worked in business and the non-profit sector, and currently serve on a governmental board. I not only understand why Jagex took away Jiblixs Fmod status, I agree with it. One cannot be in a position of authority in an organization and also do things which undermine that organization. It is one thing to criticize what an organization is doing; it is quite another to goad others into doing things that are against that organizations interests.

 

It never should have been necessary for Jagex to take action against Jiblix. The honorable way to voice the level of criticism he offered is AFTER one resigns, or at the very earliest in the letter of resignation.

 

In the thread I read that Jiblix created about his dissatisfaction (I believe it was called Ground Control to Jagex), some of the same players who complained about Jagexs unwillingness to listen to complaints were insulting to other players who disagreed with them. Two behaviors that are sure to shut down communication are name-calling and impugning others motives, which were present in abundance. If players are serious about keeping communication with Jagex open, they themselves need to stop inhibiting it.

 

Moreover, I saw no attempt by Jiblix to discourage these behaviors on his own thread, which one might reasonably expect an Fmod (or a former Fmod) to do. (I did not read the whole thread, but I read more than half, and saw him pass over opportunities to do so.) Regardless of his previous contributions to the community, I think it was time for Jiblixs position as Fmod to end. It is a shame that the very valid issues he raised are now obscured by his lack of understanding of business ethics.

 

John Stewart did a segment on the Daily Show about how politicians of all stripes claimed to know what the people wanted. At the end of that segment, he came to the conclusion that the more someone made that claim, the less likely it was to be true. I am extremely skeptical that the entire Runescape community feels one way or another about this incident, or any particular issue, or that the author has any way of judging how an entire community of over 1million people feels. I agree with Tidgy that much of the first paragraph of the article is hyperbole.

[BioIce]

I strongly disagree with this.

 

Good.

 

Because all these things I mentioned will completely change the Runescape we all know into something alien.

 

It's still a possible route for Jagex to take.

[Pinta77]

I have to agree, that is a terrible idea. It would just destroy the purpose of the game.

[Aceethan]

First Article: WOOOOT! Farming is the best!!! (My Fav. Skill)

 

Second Article: Jiblix seams to be a fairly normal and reasonable human being, which is nice as I thought he might be an anti-Jagex crazy. Inception is boss, although Batman Begins is better then The Dark Night. Chris Nolan FTW!!!

 

Third Article: I really need to stop reading this guys work late at night when it is storming. Not as scary as the first, but I'm gonna go ahead and guess I'll get less sleep then usual tonight.

 

Great articles this week! Excellent authors and awesome interview! :thumbsup:

[ilovecuttingyews]

It is definitely interesting. The part I found most interesting was when he said he was pulled out of the game multiple times to patrol a thread or something, and that it wasn't fair. I have to disagree with that. Maybe Jagex isn't 100% truthful with what is expected and required of you as a moderator, but you have to remamber that any and all player/forum moderators can quit whenever, and I honestly have never heard of a moderator willingly resigning.

Mods are told (not just encouraged) that we are players first, mods second. Any time Jagex pulls a Mod out of playing the game to do Modly duties, it goes againt what they told us in the first place. I have no problem helping, but being told when I have to patrol a thread would make me quit right there.

 

As for resigning, people resign all the time. I can't post numbers / reasons, but it's certainly not uncommon.

[GregorDGrim]

From the farming article:

 

This is called the Neolithic revolution and nothing since it has changed human society more.

I think the Industrial revolution has changed human society more.

 

But, that's a minor nit with an otherwise interesting and well-written article. I also enjoyed the interview with Jiblix, but I'm not surprised by Jagex's decision to de-mod him.

[Alg]

Think to yourself right now, if you were a moderator right this second, would you complain? I would venture to say that a lot of people wouldn't. Maybe it isn't fair to do a ton of Jagex's work for them, but no one is being forced to. And if the player is happy, and it is helping make runescape a better game, then I think the way the moderators are being treated is fine.

You would be surprised at how many moderators do complain, though. Jiblix isn't the first or last to be demodded for speaking out, he's just the most recent and the most public one. And mods do resign fairly frequently, though they usually do so when quitting the game, and they don't make it as public as Jiblix did. Hit a bit close to home, as a good friend was demodded for speaking out years ago and I've seen several others either quit or be kicked from the role with very little explanation.

 

That said, Jiblix was a dual mod, and forum mods have quite a bit more responsibility than Pmods. Think about the [cabbage] TIF's global mods put up with, then imagine them working in the RSOF and add in the fact that Forum mods are the closest thing to Jgex representatives there. Better idea, don't, it isn't pretty... :ohnoes:

[Applejuiceaj]

I really enjoyed reading this article, that's for sure.

 

A few things to just comment on here (referring to things said on this thread, not in the article):

 

Firstly, while I can understand why Jagex would want their mods to be on the same page as them (which does make sense, seeing as they are sort of representing the company by wearing the crown), its also important to remember that each and every person is entitled to having their own opinions. Sadly it just seems that Jagex won't listen to opinions that don't match theirs and this has been represented well over the RSOF in the past few months. Jibby (who is a very good friend of mine) wasn't the only one who was removed for posting stuff that...hm how should I word it..."content that didn't agree with their current policies"; I know of at least one or two more mods who were removed from the team for similar things. Funny thing is that all this seems to do is plague the forums. I was reading a thread in Future Updates just the other night which was posted by an FMod regarding the updates coming for this upcoming month (the OP wasn't really too happy with the month other than ROTM), and all I found was comments along the lines of "inb4demod, gf" written all over it. Go back a few months from now and if the same exact thread was posted, no such comments would have appeared *anywhere* on the RSOF.

 

Secondly, a few posts back (I can't remember which and its late and I don't feel like scrolling up) a comment was made on resignations never being "willing" or something like that. From what I've seen over the past year and a half that I've been active on the RSOF it seems resignations take place for one of a few reasons: either because the person doesn't agree with Jagex and does not wish to to represent them anymore as a mod, sometimes just because the player wants to go back to being a normal player like everyone else (yes, not everyone thinks they're king of the hill when they're a mod), and some just decide to leave because they're taking a break from the game or just feel that modding isn't the same anymore or don't have time for the commitment anymore. I say this knowing at least one mod who would fit into each and every one of these categories.

 

Thirdly, I genuinely think that some JMods do know the problem exists. I'm good friends with a few JMods, one of which (not mentioning names here although a few people who know me well may know who I'm referring to) I often chat to while they're on their lunch break or just whenever they're on playing cuz they feel like playing and every now and then, one of us passes a comment referencing the bot problem and how it seems nothing is being done about it (more often than not, I don't make the first comment). The topic of Jagex's marketing has come up a few times as well and from what I've been able to gather, as some of us can expect, almost everything is being called by whoever is the head of the marketing dept for Jagex and those on the lower end of the totem pole (some of which have been there for 5+ years) find themselves almost with no say at all, just like the rest of us.

 

In any case, I think we all know that bots exist and they annoy the heck out of almost all of us. Personally though what keeps me coming back to play the game are the friends I've made while playing, clan events, getting to be a part of a community that shares some of the same interests that I do, etc. That...and the fact that while I've been playing for a very long time (5+ years) I've really only gotten to try a very small portion of the "older content" (still have tons of quests to do and haven't played over half of the minigames/activities yet) so I really don't have too many reasons to complain. I know the bots are there but I just try my hardest to ignore them as I know that while they're there working away, there are still plenty of ways for me to get away from them and still have fun.

 

Anyway, I think I'm starting to ramble on as it seems I always end up doing so I'll end this here.

 

*goes back to lurking the RSOF*

 

Oh and one last thing...Jibby is a n00b who should be training RC, but I think he already knew that. :P

[Triquos]

In regards to the Jiblix interview.

 

1) I believe Jagex made the right decision by demodding him. Whether Jiblix believes so or not, he directly (or indirectly) showed many runescape gold selling websites in the video. Yes people might see those websites in game, but that is not the point. Mods should NEVER include gold selling websites in their videos - mods are there to BLOCK those websites, not to show them in youtube videos. He should have blurred the websites out. After all, mods showing scam websites is not a good look, and like others have said, it is one thing to criticise a company they work for/help with, it is another to go behind their backs and tell others to not vote for them.

 

2) I did not vote for Jagex this year, and I voted I think.. 2 days? Prior to the video Jiblix released - so either way he had no influence on my voting. I voted for another game simply because I felt until the bots are dealt with and the updates are better (for example graphic updates never used to be a main update >.< and don't get me started on the many 'no update this week' stickies), I wouldn't vote for them.

 

3) "It wouldn't phase me if a good chunk of veteran players simply quit because of the frustrations they hold."

 

I have been playing Runescape for 9 years now, and whilst I have frustrations with Jagex when it comes to updates and questionable morals (ring of wealth glitch, climbing boots update etc.) I'm not going to throw a temper tantrum and threaten to cancel my membership because A) for every genuine, loyal player lost, there is bound to be 2-3 bots that replace that player anyway, and B) you play Runescape for fun, not because the company cares about you or the morals of the game.

 

What I have learnt from my time playing RS is that Jagex is a business. Most of the time businesses do not care about morals or their customers, it is all about the dollar at the end of the day. I play their game because it brings me fun. What they do with their morals is up to them, and likewise, if players decide to cheat or rwt, I'm sure they'll get their comeuppance sooner or later. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of players that (unfortunately) get away with rwt'ing everyday. I see so many rich players in Runescape and I always question whether they made their gp legitimately, but in the end it is not up to me to deal with them, that is Jagex's job and sometimes we all have to learn to just play the game and get WHATEVER WE ARE GIVEN. If you don't like the game, quit.

 

I will continue to play RS for as long as I get enjoyment out of it. What other players do is their business, but this whole thing was blown out of proportion and most of the time people only tend to stick to one side of the story. I firmly believe that a wise councellor always looks at both sides of the story before passing judgement. In this case, I believe Jagex were right on this one.

[mattonline]

First of all, I support Jiblix so my bias will be evident anyway so I may as well get that out of the way.

 

One cannot be in a position of authority in an organization and also do things which undermine that organization.

 

How much authority does a player moderator even have in this game? Jiblix wasn't part of the organisation, he was part of the community. Ideally, a moderators role is to act on behalf of the community not on behalf of Jagex (see quick chat for what player moderators alledgedly do, and compare to what Jagex actually want them to be). For a while there, this actually overlapped which was great as both Jagex benefitted and the community benefitted. Now, what the community wants is at odds to what Jagex wants.

 

Moreover, I saw no attempt by Jiblix to discourage these behaviors on his own thread, which one might reasonably expect an Fmod (or a former Fmod) to do.

 

Backseat moderation is against the forum rules, as Jiblix being a former Fmod would be fully aware of. It isn't his place to tell people what to do if he doesn't have the tools to follow this up. The RSOF has enough name calling of 'WBM', and previously being a mod won't stop this.

 

After being told to blatantly misguide their players with that whole stat reset ordeal (we were told to tell players to flag this as a bug report), I really did find it hard to trust them.

 

I disagree with this aspect, as the way I saw it we were told what to tell players to do. Telling them to submit a bug report and telling them that it is a bug are two different things. Yes, it does come down to semantics but details are important too. At worst, we were told the procedure of what to do if we wanted to do anything, but we didn't have to follow this (instead we could abstain from moderating such threads).

 

I can't disagree with Jiblix's view on bots, but I have to agree with Jagex's decision as far as the mod status goes. Especially in times like this, all the moderators need to be on the same page.

 

In order to get them all on the same page, that would involve moderators either lying or keeping their views to themselves. Being a moderator has enough cons, not to include being a fake who spins the company line (not even a company who is paying them, but in most cases as a moderator you are paying them). I personally believe in being genuine, and as such I don't like lying about things.

 

It is definitely interesting. The part I found most interesting was when he said he was pulled out of the game multiple times to patrol a thread or something, and that it wasn't fair. I have to disagree with that.

 

For a company that strives to profit, they'll make use of any free labour they can get as it increases the profit margins. Some Jmods wouldn't make it sound as bad though, but rather advertise it as an 'opportunity to hang out on forum help' :P.

 

Maybe Jagex isn't 100% truthful with what is expected and required of you as a moderator, but you have to remamber that any and all player/forum moderators can quit whenever, and I honestly have never heard of a moderator willingly resigning.

 

Here's one. I resigned from dual moderatorship. There has also been another retired dual mod that posted on this thread, along with a pmod that retired twice (once voluntarily, the second perhaps less so but still...). Also, look at the size of the fmod list at the moment. There was a stage when it was around 200 if I recall correctly.

 

And if the player is happy, and it is helping make runescape a better game, then I think the way the moderators are being treated is fine.

 

The impact they have on the game is almost negligble now. They can mute. Big deal considering that adbots are replaced within minutes and the ignore list would do the job anyway. They can't do too much else that a non mod can't do. They are basically an extension of Jagex, either helping out with menial tasks that they can't be bothered paying someone to do (hosting community events, working off forum help, hopping worlds muting adbots). If that made a difference, or if Jagex seemed to care, then it wouldn't be that bad, but it doesn't :(.

[Alg]

1) I believe Jagex made the right decision by demodding him. Whether Jiblix believes so or not, he directly (or indirectly) showed many runescape gold selling websites in the video. Yes people might see those websites in game, but that is not the point. Mods should NEVER include gold selling websites in their videos - mods are there to BLOCK those websites, not to show them in youtube videos. He should have blurred the websites out. After all, mods showing scam websites is not a good look, and like others have said, it is one thing to criticise a company they work for/help with, it is another to go behind their backs and tell others to not vote for them.

If Jagex cared at all about whether or not players saw these adbots, they'd do something about it, and that IS the point. They're literally the first thing that a F2P'er will see when he steps out of the tutorial, and they're the only thing a F2P'er will ever see when he goes to the GE. A friend in the HYT Friend chat was playing on his F2P pure account just minutes ago, and he literally could not train because every training spot was filled with bots.

 

If you want to see the impact of that, you just have to look at world populations; It's a bit jarring to see member worlds with three times the population of F2P worlds, and if you step in to one, you'll see that only a small fraction of them are players.

 

The category that Jagex is up for is "Best Free Online Game", so if the free version is unplayable because of the amount of bots, they sure as hell don't deserve to win it.

 

And that's why we always write about bots... :razz: (Joke)

[Triquos]

1) I believe Jagex made the right decision by demodding him. Whether Jiblix believes so or not, he directly (or indirectly) showed many runescape gold selling websites in the video. Yes people might see those websites in game, but that is not the point. Mods should NEVER include gold selling websites in their videos - mods are there to BLOCK those websites, not to show them in youtube videos. He should have blurred the websites out. After all, mods showing scam websites is not a good look, and like others have said, it is one thing to criticise a company they work for/help with, it is another to go behind their backs and tell others to not vote for them.

If Jagex cared at all about whether or not players saw these adbots, they'd do something about it, and that IS the point. They're literally the first thing that a F2P'er will see when he steps out of the tutorial, and they're the only thing a F2P'er will ever see when he goes to the GE. A friend in the HYT Friend chat was playing on his F2P pure account just minutes ago, and he literally could not train because every training spot was filled with bots.

 

If you want to see the impact of that, you just have to look at world populations; It's a bit jarring to see member worlds with three times the population of F2P worlds, and if you step in to one, you'll see that only a small fraction of them are players.

 

The category that Jagex is up for is "Best Free Online Game", so if the free version is unplayable because of the amount of bots, they sure as hell don't deserve to win it.

 

And that's why we always write about bots... :razz: (Joke)

 

 

Yes but what I am trying to point out is that Mods shouldn't show scam websites anywhere in their personal youtube videos. Like I also said, yes you may see those sites anywhere in Runescape, but does it make it right for a player mod to go around showing everyone where to go to buy rs gold? No.

[Racheya]

1) I believe Jagex made the right decision by demodding him. Whether Jiblix believes so or not, he directly (or indirectly) showed many runescape gold selling websites in the video. Yes people might see those websites in game, but that is not the point. Mods should NEVER include gold selling websites in their videos - mods are there to BLOCK those websites, not to show them in youtube videos. He should have blurred the websites out. After all, mods showing scam websites is not a good look, and like others have said, it is one thing to criticise a company they work for/help with, it is another to go behind their backs and tell others to not vote for them.

If Jagex cared at all about whether or not players saw these adbots, they'd do something about it, and that IS the point. They're literally the first thing that a F2P'er will see when he steps out of the tutorial, and they're the only thing a F2P'er will ever see when he goes to the GE. A friend in the HYT Friend chat was playing on his F2P pure account just minutes ago, and he literally could not train because every training spot was filled with bots.

 

If you want to see the impact of that, you just have to look at world populations; It's a bit jarring to see member worlds with three times the population of F2P worlds, and if you step in to one, you'll see that only a small fraction of them are players.

 

The category that Jagex is up for is "Best Free Online Game", so if the free version is unplayable because of the amount of bots, they sure as hell don't deserve to win it.

 

And that's why we always write about bots... :razz: (Joke)

 

 

Yes but what I am trying to point out is that Mods shouldn't show scam websites anywhere in their personal youtube videos. Like I also said, yes you may see those sites anywhere in Runescape, but does it make it right for a player mod to go around showing everyone where to go to buy rs gold? No.

I have to ask you - what are the chances of someone seeing all the bots when they're at the GE and ignoring them, but the moment they watch his video and see the same bots go - I MUST RWT NOW! It's extremely, extremely unlikely. It takes one google of 'RuneScape' or even just being in the game to find out where to go. The fact that he has it in his videos isn't going to do anything and, really, the amount of editing needed to get rid of them would be ridiculous and sort of destroy the point he was making.

 

 

Now, I found Jiblix's interview to be quite fascinating. As a moderator here it's interesting to compare his experiences of being a mod on Jagex's forums and my experiences here. He mentions there being arguing and tension between Fmods and I have to wonder how much harm that does to the team overall. Moderators have to be united, not necessarily on Jagex's side, but all on their own side together. You can't have some mods doing one thing then others doing something completely different. Nor is it fair for Fmods to get the heat for Jagex's mistakes, it's particularly bad when you realise that volunteers are taking the blame for paid employees of the company. Just as staff here are firstly just members before staff, F&PMods should be firstly just players before mods. It's unfair to treat these people as a fire shield, Jagex.

[Pinta77]

It is definitely interesting. The part I found most interesting was when he said he was pulled out of the game multiple times to patrol a thread or something, and that it wasn't fair. I have to disagree with that. Maybe Jagex isn't 100% truthful with what is expected and required of you as a moderator, but you have to remamber that any and all player/forum moderators can quit whenever, and I honestly have never heard of a moderator willingly resigning.

Mods are told (not just encouraged) that we are players first, mods second. Any time Jagex pulls a Mod out of playing the game to do Modly duties, it goes againt what they told us in the first place. I have no problem helping, but being told when I have to patrol a thread would make me quit right there.

 

As for resigning, people resign all the time. I can't post numbers / reasons, but it's certainly not uncommon.

 

You are 100% right, I'm just saying that I wouldn't complain, and from the sound of it, you are a mod and you don't mind either. I love this game and wouldn't mind spending some of my time making trivial attempts to try to help out. I think it would be kind of neat.

[Pinta77]

 

 

Firstly, while I can understand why Jagex would want their mods to be on the same page as them (which does make sense, seeing as they are sort of representing the company by wearing the crown), its also important to remember that each and every person is entitled to having their own opinions. Sadly it just seems that Jagex won't listen to opinions that don't match theirs and this has been represented well over the RSOF in the past few months. Jibby (who is a very good friend of mine) wasn't the only one who was removed for posting stuff that...hm how should I word it..."content that didn't agree with their current policies"; I know of at least one or two more mods who were removed from the team for similar things. Funny thing is that all this seems to do is plague the forums. I was reading a thread in Future Updates just the other night which was posted by an FMod regarding the updates coming for this upcoming month (the OP wasn't really too happy with the month other than ROTM), and all I found was comments along the lines of "inb4demod, gf" written all over it. Go back a few months from now and if the same exact thread was posted, no such comments would have appeared *anywhere* on the RSOF.

 

 

First off, hi, I've seen you in the rsof :)

 

There are numerous things that Jagex does that may not be right or fair. Maybe a year or 2 ago they would have been worth fighting for, but in runescapes current state, it is probably best to just try to go with the flow as much as we can. There are plenty of ragers, spammers, and rioters already, and adding to it only causes more chaos.

 

Since this isn't runescape, I will share this little bit of info I got. There is a member in my clan who claims he applied for an actual job at Jagex.(He was actually a pmod, so I was kinda trusting that he was being truthful.) He claims that they have a whole room dedicated to solving the bot problem.

 

Maybe they are just throwing staff parties in there, idk, but hearing this has given me an entirely different view. Maybe If we just go with the flow and try to keep peace, then they will have more time to concentrate on this bot problem.

[Ts_Stormrage]

From the farming article:

 

This is called the Neolithic revolution and nothing since it has changed human society more.

I think the Industrial revolution has changed human society more.

 

But, that's a minor nit with an otherwise interesting and well-written article. I also enjoyed the interview with Jiblix, but I'm not surprised by Jagex's decision to de-mod him.

 

I knew this argument was going to come up... :)

But I think that, starting to have machines do heavy work for us is not as much of an impact as being able to stay in the same location (and start building the first towns) has been... The neolithic revolution was our first contra-evolutionairy step away from being better hunter-gatherers, where the industrial revolution allowed us to do more and more of the same really...

[BioIce]

The neolithic revolution was our first contra-evolutionairy step away from being better hunter-gatherers, where the industrial revolution allowed us to do more and more of the same really...

 

Humanity has a far longer history of being hunter-gatherers. Becoming farmers was extremely game-changing.

 

The industrial revolution is just the acceleration of humanity's drive further away from the hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Yeah... thats what I said ;)

 

This has been my 5th skill review, btw (after Herblore, Summoning, Dungeoneering, and Cooking)...

 

I do have ideas lined up for Hunter/Hunting and Firemaking skills. And the latter one of the two sure could use some expansion, wouldnt you agree? ;)

[mara_planter]

Currently serve on a governmental board.

 

Two behaviors that are sure to shut down communication are name-calling and impugning others motives, which were present in abundance.

 

 

Lol couldn't resist it. Just love the irony :grin:

 

Not as ironic as you might think. There are plenty of volunteers who serve in low-level positions who would like to see civility in politics. It sure would make it easier to get real work done.

[mara_planter]

 

One cannot be in a position of authority in an organization and also do things which undermine that organization.

 

How much authority does a player moderator even have in this game? Jiblix wasn't part of the organisation, he was part of the community. Ideally, a moderators role is to act on behalf of the community not on behalf of Jagex (see quick chat for what player moderators alledgedly do, and compare to what Jagex actually want them to be). For a while there, this actually overlapped which was great as both Jagex benefitted and the community benefitted. Now, what the community wants is at odds to what Jagex wants.

 

A moderator has the ability to enforce Jagex's rules of conduct. That gives him/her quite a bit of authority, and certainly more than other players. (I appreciate your attempt to educate me further on Jagexs expectations for player moderators, but all Quick Chat did was allow me to embarrass myself in the bank by quoting trite phrases. :oops: )

 

For the record, if Jagex really is demodding people simply for disagreeing with their policies, then I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. But there is plenty in this situation that leads me to believe this is not the real issue.

 

Think of it this way: Would you expect a clan leader to keep someone in his/her clan who encouraged other clan members to vote against it in a poll?

 

 

 

Moreover, I saw no attempt by Jiblix to discourage these behaviors on his own thread, which one might reasonably expect an Fmod (or a former Fmod) to do.

 

Backseat moderation is against the forum rules, as Jiblix being a former Fmod would be fully aware of. It isn't his place to tell people what to do if he doesn't have the tools to follow this up. The RSOF has enough name calling of 'WBM', and previously being a mod won't stop this.

 

I start with two assumptions. First that those who are chosen to be Fmods want RSOF to be a friendly place, and second that personal insults against other players do not make RSOF a friendly place. There are a range of tools that can be used to discourage rude comments, some of which are available to and used by those who create threads who are not also Fmods. Some examples: a pre-emptive remark in the OP that asks that replies be polite, expressing disapproval of remarks which are not polite, and countering rude remarks by indicating respect for the opinions of those who disagree with the OP. I dont see WBM attitude in any of these, just simple human kindness.

[Emchaim]

A moderator has the ability to enforce Jagex's rules of conduct. That gives him/her quite a bit of authority, and certainly more than other players. (I appreciate your attempt to educate me further on Jagexs expectations for player moderators, but all Quick Chat did was allow me to embarrass myself in the bank by quoting trite phrases. :oops: )

 

For the record, if Jagex really is demodding people simply for disagreeing with their policies, then I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. But there is plenty in this situation that leads me to believe this is not the real issue.

 

Think of it this way: Would you expect a clan leader to keep someone in his/her clan who encouraged other clan members to vote against it in a poll?

 

First, I completely understand where you're coming from. Second, this post is not going to be well organized...

 

I think you overestimate the efficiency of the communication of JaGEx and JMods. JaGEx has persistently shown an inability to handle the PMod 'team' in recent times. JaGEx always has refereed to PMods as players first and PMods second. However, I can point to examples of PMods being muted for things that JaGEx told, and continues to tell, PMods should not be reported. I think the biggest update to being a PMod in a long time was the filter. This update caught most PMods I know completely off-guard.

 

Honestly, if you go on the PMod forums on the RSOF right now, there are quite a few threads relating to community and botting issues, needless to say JMods have no response. There are JMods that are curators for the PMod 'team'. I can't even tell you who they are anymore, because JMods don't actually seem to post in the PMod forums. Half of the times JMods have meetings with PMods about issues relating to moderating the bot issue is brought up, by different PMods, and the response is never actually substantive.

 

PMods have tried to communicate this issue over and over in a non-public place. Most of the PMods I have communication with and actually talk about this issue don't hesitate to publicly mock JaGEx.

 

Oh, and as to the Rules of Conduct: PMods don't mute or report according to the rules of conduct. For example, autotypers have been against the rules as long as I can remember and it's a [relatively] recent policy decision that they can be muted.

 

I'm sorry about the rambling, but it's a complex issue. I see why JaGEx de-modded Jiblix, I honestly do. However, JaGEx is failing to communicate with the PMods over the company line and still expects them to maintain the company line. And, because of this, I can certainly see why Jiblix decided to involve the hoi polloi in the matter.

[i_trollz_u]

Someone explain to me why mods, just because they are volunteers, should be able to make videos bashing a game that they volunteer for. If I started talking about how much the hospital i used to volunteer in sucked I totally would deserve to get kicked out, even if i was volunteering on my own accord.

 

I also don't see why veteran players are any more important than new players, the money is the same no matter who pays it. In fact, it's a lot easier to make a new player addicted to RS than it is to make RS interesting to someone who has been playing 8+ years, so one could almost argue the logical thing to do for the growth of the game is to prioritize the pleasing of new players over the pleasing of the maxed/130+/veteran players.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I'm sorry about the rambling, but it's a complex issue. I see why JaGEx de-modded Jiblix, I honestly do. However, JaGEx is failing to communicate with the PMods over the company line and still expects them to maintain the company line. And, because of this, I can certainly see why Jiblix decided to involve the hoi polloi in the matter.

 

Or, as mara_planter suggested in his/her(?) original post, he could have resigned his position and then done what he did. Question - If there's so much cynicism amongs the pmod community how come they don't resign their modship in disgust (you don't actually have to answer that point as I know what answer I'll get and from where :grin:).