RuneVillage - Removed as gold status because owner is a sex offender

[Deathknell]

They decided to publicly cut all ties with him and their site. And honestly, what in the world were those people doing staying at RV? :rolleyes:

 

You'll have to forgive me if I've misinterpreted your post, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. You're not speaking of the community that chooses to remain there, are you?

 

My post wasn't critical of their forum users in any serious manner. I do find it a bit odd though that some people would stay in a community that was dwindling and clearly dying out. I'd think people would leave for greener pastures. That is more of a side issue though unrelated to this whole thing.

 

And Magic, it's all very hard now to be objective. One side is Jagex and the other a fansite that feels burned by Jagex. I don't think I can take either side at their word.

 

A) Because I think Jagex is very dishonest.

B) I can see how a scorned fansite could miscontrue things to make Jagex look bad.

 

It sucks. Sorry RV forums. If there was ever time to bail though... :-#

[Kimberly]

I do find it a bit odd though that some people would stay in a community that was dwindling and clearly dying out.

 

...

 

It sucks. Sorry RV forums. If there was ever time to bail though... :-#

 

It is very hard to walk away from things you have a strong emotional attachment to, be it friends you've made, work you've done, etc. And I'll tell you that from experience, it's that sort of attitude that shatters a community with uncertainty, panic, and stonewalls it; it's really very hard to deal with.

 

I've only ever had to experience it from a clan's standpoint. I can't imagine how much stronger those feelings would be with such a vast community and project (in comparison to the size of the typical clan.)

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Agreed. I feel very bad for their community. Unfortunately the guy wasn't just an admin, but the owner and operator of the site.

 

Also given how they decided that even now with him gone RV couldn't ever get back their Gold status, it's unlikely that they'd ever have worked it out with them.

 

They decided to publicly cut all ties with him and their site. And honestly, what in the world were those people doing staying at RV? :rolleyes:

 

The devil's in the details, but what I gleaned from that post (before they locked their forums down, apparently) - Jagex had mentioned to them that they'd work with the site's new admins after Hiker was removed, but then Jagex came back and permanently ended their ties with the fansite.

 

Further, Jagex initially stated that they would resume support and "Gold" status once new management/ownership was in place. However, later they came back and stated that they would not be supporting RuneVillage at all in the future. They have thrown our community out due to something that hiker did 16 years ago.

 

 

Even though it's still a he-said she-said sort of scenario that plays out from here, there is an obvious lost of trust between RV and Jagex. So I'd say it's kind of tough to get back in the community's good graces. They were still around 7 years ago, back when the fansite "wars" were still happenin'. IIRC, they were one of the few that had concept art (not official of course) for RS2.

 

People stay at sites because they like the atmosphere. If they loved it over there at RV, then who are we to say where they should or shouldn't be?

 

 

Well, in the he-said/she-said scenario it's pretty tough. Take the word of a company who's judgement you no longer trust or the guy convicted of posessing and sending child porn. :unsure:

 

The past two quotes were from Henner and Burks, respectively - Not Hiker.

 

Yeah, we've really got to keep Hiker out of this. This discussion thread has done a fine job shredding him already.

 

As for the scenario - It's not just a matter of distrust, but also a proven track record. There's plenty of evidence elsewhere to lead me to believe Jagex would posture one way, and behave another way.

 

[EDIT]

I do find it a bit odd though that some people would stay in a community that was dwindling and clearly dying out.

 

...

 

It sucks. Sorry RV forums. If there was ever time to bail though... :-#

 

It is very hard to walk away from things you have a strong emotional attachment to, be it friends you've made, work you've done, etc. And I'll tell you that from experience, it's that sort of attitude that shatters a community with uncertainty, panic, and stonewalls it; it's really very hard to deal with.

 

I've only ever had to experience it from a clan's standpoint. I can't imagine how much stronger those feelings would be with such a vast community and project (in comparison to the size of the typical clan.)

 

 

I can testify to this first-hand. Imagine being the member, moderator, half-op, global moderator, administrator, and full-op of a fansite and its respective IRC channel - in the span of about six years - all to have it shut down due to lack of activity. So much work was put into that place, not just by myself, but by many people I considered friends.

 

Leaving a fansite's community is a painful thing to do. You forge bonds, memories, rivalries, and have a whole boatload of fun. Seeing it come to an end would make even the most stoic among you shed a tear.

[Deathknell]

I do find it a bit odd though that some people would stay in a community that was dwindling and clearly dying out.

 

...

 

It sucks. Sorry RV forums. If there was ever time to bail though... :-#

 

It is very hard to walk away from things you have a strong emotional attachment to, be it friends you've made, work you've done, etc. And I'll tell you that from experience, it's that sort of attitude that shatters a community with uncertainty, panic, and stonewalls it; it's really very hard to deal with.

 

I've only ever had to experience it from a clan's standpoint. I can't imagine how much stronger those feelings would be with such a vast community and project (in comparison to the size of the typical clan.)

 

Vast community? I thought we were talking about Runevillage? :wink:

 

And Makato, Hiker deserved to be shredded. As far as I can tell, what has come out is things he has done. Haven't seen too much "speculation."

 

Jagex too. Maybe they changed their minds after? Maybe what happened between the two led to an arugment and Jagex told them to take a hike? We don't know.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

...And Makato, Hiker deserved to be shredded. As far as I can tell, what has come out is things he has done. Haven't seen too much "speculation."

 

Right...I don't think I've mentioned much about speculation, although there's plenty in the other pages that do. I avoided, for the most part, discussing Hiker and whether or not what he did was legal/illegal/moral/immoral/etc, simply because it's too easy for people who are very emotional about this thing to just beat the crap out of the catalyst instead of discussing the repercussions.

 

I'm not saying he deserved to be flamed to Hell and back on this thread. In fact, I think that it wasn't necessary - he's a non-factor in the fansite, and he's no longer managing Runevillage either to the best of my understanding. He's had a run-in with the law and he has, for the most part, served his time.

 

He's got that label on him that won't ever go away, no matter how you try to reason, no matter how you try to plea, no matter how you try and change. That's enough flame to keep a man warm for centuries. Adding more to the fire is pointless.

 

Right. I'm done taking this off-topic.

 

*steers back on course*

[Deathknell]

...And Makato, Hiker deserved to be shredded. As far as I can tell, what has come out is things he has done. Haven't seen too much "speculation."

 

Right...I don't think I've mentioned much about speculation, although there's plenty in the other pages that do. I avoided, for the most part, discussing Hiker and whether or not what he did was legal/illegal/moral/immoral/etc, simply because it's too easy for people who are very emotional about this thing to just beat the crap out of the catalyst instead of discussing the repercussions.

 

I'm not saying he deserved to be flamed to Hell and back on this thread. In fact, I think that it wasn't necessary - he's a non-factor in the fansite, and he's no longer managing Runevillage either to the best of my understanding. He's had a run-in with the law and he has, for the most part, served his time.

 

He's got that label on him that won't ever go away, no matter how you try to reason, no matter how you try to plea, no matter how you try and change. That's enough flame to keep a man warm for centuries. Adding more to the fire is pointless.

 

Right. I'm done taking this off-topic.

 

*steers back on course*

 

Actually, I kinda think we are on-topic. :)

 

There is more to the story now. I'm think given how Jagex went back and burned their bridge with RV, maybe their was an issue over something that got a litle personal. Maybe Jagex just decided to be tools about it. I don't know.

 

I still have to say it's pretty safe that he did something illegal and in my opinion, something very immoral.

 

And I said speculation because most of the flaming of him was based on things that are pretty much based in fact. And because that, I think he deserves it.

Edited September 11, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Inappropriate commentary

[ForsakenMage]

Vast community? I thought we were talking about Runevillage? :wink:

It may not seem vast when you're talking about number of registered users, but when you consider the amount of effort these guys put out, it's quite impressive that they got a gold rank to begin with. From the little I've read on their forums, they seem to be a nice bunch of people who put a lot work and dedication in making sure their community stays relatively stable, even after the fact has been known. They're working hard to move on. You gotta give them some credit for that.

 

Guys, let's please keep it civil okay? Again, please do not bash Runevillage as we wish to maintain a positive relationship with them and any other RuneScape fansite community. :)

[Deathknell]

Vast community? I thought we were talking about Runevillage? :wink:

It may not seem vast when you're talking about number of registered users, but when you consider the amount of effort these guys put out, it's quite impressive that they got a gold rank to begin with. From the little I've read on their forums, they seem to be a nice bunch of people who put a lot work and dedication in making sure their community stays relatively stable, even after the fact has been known. They're working hard to move on. You gotta give them some credit for that.

 

Guys, let's please keep it civil okay? Again, please do not bash Runevillage as we wish to maintain a positive relationship with them and any other RuneScape fansite community. :)

 

Oh quite. I tease, but the forum users there are quite a hardworking little bunch. I always differentiate between RV(good) and Hiker(creep).

 

Henner is a really good guy too. :thumbup:

[pulli23]

Those registrations are only there for future problems: IF you have another problem in the future, your penalty would be obviously worse if you have committed a similar crime in the past already.

 

 

Those registrations are not for future reference for repeat offences, that system is already in place in the form of your criminal record.

 

The register is public & there to protect the public & for future employers so he doesn't get to work in or around people/children of who he could abuse.

 

What you've just said is rubbish.

That's why they shouldn't be public, I'm saying those things are damaging a person more than necessary. - Hopefully now you get the point? - I am OPPOSED to public records of private things which follow you your whole life.

That is rubbish? - Good luck in the future, "big brother is watching you".

 

And we are discussing morals here, what you should, and should not do. It is impossible to leave religion out, as the basics for each religion is teaching morals. Maybe it is human nature, but do we have to admit this? Do we have to fall into our own mistakes again and again? Can't we learn and not act prejudiced? Those things only show a weakness.

[RU_Insane]

Those registrations are only there for future problems: IF you have another problem in the future, your penalty would be obviously worse if you have committed a similar crime in the past already.

 

 

Those registrations are not for future reference for repeat offences, that system is already in place in the form of your criminal record.

 

The register is public & there to protect the public & for future employers so he doesn't get to work in or around people/children of who he could abuse.

 

What you've just said is rubbish.

That's why they shouldn't be public, I'm saying those things are damaging a person more than necessary. - Hopefully now you get the point? - I am OPPOSED to public records of private things which follow you your whole life.

That is rubbish? - Good luck in the future, "big brother is watching you".

 

And we are discussing morals here, what you should, and should not do. It is impossible to leave religion out, as the basics for each religion is teaching morals. Maybe it is human nature, but do we have to admit this? Do we have to fall into our own mistakes again and again? Can't we learn and not act prejudiced? Those things only show a weakness.

 

You can't just stow away the information somewhere so you can save his "reputation". He ruined his own reputation, and since as I explained before, the matter is public, there's no need to keep the information private. What's public is what's required for the community to protect themselves against the offender. It doesn't state his bank PIN, it doesn't state his social security, and it doesn't state anything that could seriously compromise his security. Likewise, keeping the info public doesn't compromise his image; he is the one who compromised it. Secondly, the only scenario where your suggestion is remotely possible is if he were to get off the sex offender's list -- which is dependent upon your conviction and the laws of the state you're living in. IIRC, laws regard sexual offenses are not kind toward convicts, so there's little chance of him getting off. Perhaps if he can prove himself that he's not a danger to society, he can be taken off. I don't know about that area so I can't say anything further.

[Magicana]

Those registrations are only there for future problems: IF you have another problem in the future, your penalty would be obviously worse if you have committed a similar crime in the past already.

 

 

Those registrations are not for future reference for repeat offences, that system is already in place in the form of your criminal record.

 

The register is public & there to protect the public & for future employers so he doesn't get to work in or around people/children of who he could abuse.

 

What you've just said is rubbish.

That's why they shouldn't be public, I'm saying those things are damaging a person more than necessary. - Hopefully now you get the point? - I am OPPOSED to public records of private things which follow you your whole life.

That is rubbish? - Good luck in the future, "big brother is watching you".

 

And we are discussing morals here, what you should, and should not do. It is impossible to leave religion out, as the basics for each religion is teaching morals. Maybe it is human nature, but do we have to admit this? Do we have to fall into our own mistakes again and again? Can't we learn and not act prejudiced? Those things only show a weakness.

 

You can't just stow away the information somewhere so you can save his "reputation". He ruined his own reputation, and since as I explained before, the matter is public, there's no need to keep the information private. What's public is what's required for the community to protect themselves against the offender. It doesn't state his bank PIN, it doesn't state his social security, and it doesn't state anything that could seriously compromise his security. Likewise, keeping the info public doesn't compromise his image; he is the one who compromised it. Secondly, the only scenario where your suggestion is remotely possible is if he were to get off the sex offender's list -- which is dependent upon your conviction and the laws of the state you're living in. IIRC, laws regard sexual offenses are not kind toward convicts, so there's little chance of him getting off. Perhaps if he can prove himself that he's not a danger to society, he can be taken off. I don't know about that area so I can't say anything further.

 

His address isn't a compromise of his security?

[Lacoste]

If it were up to me, SteveW would be out on his ass tomorrow heading to the unemployment line. This is what Jagex has come to? Publicly shaming people in stickied threads on their forums? I have a hard time explaining to people at my job that their credit card was declined, what kind of a thuggish [wagon] does SteveW have to be to condemn an entire fansite to endless harassment for the sake of making some kind of [cabbage] statement about protecting the children, a disproportionate response to an imaginary threat.

[Vio]

If it were up to me, SteveW would be out on his ass tomorrow heading to the unemployment line. This is what Jagex has come to? Publicly shaming people in stickied threads on their forums? I have a hard time explaining to people at my job that their credit card was declined, what kind of a thuggish [wagon] does SteveW have to be to condemn an entire fansite to endless harassment for the sake of making some kind of [cabbage] statement about protecting the children, a disproportionate response to an imaginary threat.

 

^ this. Nothing more need be said.

[RoswellCrash]

 

That's why they shouldn't be public, I'm saying those things are damaging a person more than necessary. - Hopefully now you get the point? - I am OPPOSED to public records of private things which follow you your whole life.

That is rubbish? - Good luck in the future, "big brother is watching you".

 

Ok well that's not what you said.

You said the list was so people could keep track of him incase he repeat offends. Or at least that's what it implied.

 

As I said his criminal record is for that.

 

This sex offenders record is created due to overwhelming demand from the public (in said country/state) that sex offenders should be made more visible due to the nature of there targets, normally Women & Children (yes innocent kids or babies). The list is pretty indiscriminate if you commit a crime classed as sex offence & a court deems it one worthy of the sex offenders register your on it.

 

I think Jagex are right to remove support for a website whos owner is on the sex offenders register, the reasons for him being on the register make me agree even more with them removing support.

 

Could it have been dealt with better, maybe.

[pulli23]

This sex offenders record is created due to overwhelming demand from the public (in said country/state) that sex offenders should be made more visible due to the nature of there targets, normally Women & Children (yes innocent kids or babies). The list is pretty indiscriminate if you commit a crime classed as sex offence & a court deems it one worthy of the sex offenders register your on it.

 

Well my confusion came from the terms then: I don't live in the US so I don't know the difference between them (criminal record 7 sex offenders).

 

But really, this makes me very, very happy once again I'm not in that god forsaken country called "USA". - People only care about themself there. "overwhelming demand from public" - what, are the US people that asocial not to wish people to have a life anymore? At least here people are actually RESPECTED if they help former criminals with a new job.

[Sy_Accursed]

This sex offenders record is created due to overwhelming demand from the public (in said country/state) that sex offenders should be made more visible due to the nature of there targets, normally Women & Children (yes innocent kids or babies). The list is pretty indiscriminate if you commit a crime classed as sex offence & a court deems it one worthy of the sex offenders register your on it.

 

Well my confusion came from the terms then: I don't live in the US so I don't know the difference between them (criminal record 7 sex offenders).

 

But really, this makes me very, very happy once again I'm not in that god forsaken country called "USA". - People only care about themself there. "overwhelming demand from public" - what, are the US people that asocial not to wish people to have a life anymore? At least here people are actually RESPECTED if they help former criminals with a new job.

 

It happens in pretty much every country because, quite predictably, people don't want for example convicted peadophiles living near schools or nurseries/day care for example.

Its hardly a USA only thing, most western democracies have some form of sex offender register.

[Assume Nothing]

The problem with sex offenders is the strong motive and ease of access - it's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'. A convicted rapist wouldn't have much more to lose to reoffend. Also, the prolific nature of committing sex related offenses means that it's very difficult to gauge when they no longer pose a risk to society. Perhaps when society changes their views regarding these offenders, that things will change. For now, it'll remain the same.

[pulli23]

The problem with sex offenders is the strong motive and ease of access - it's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'. A convicted rapist wouldn't have much more to lose to reoffend. Also, the prolific nature of committing sex related offenses means that it's very difficult to gauge when they no longer pose a risk to society. Perhaps when society changes their views regarding these offenders, that things will change. For now, it'll remain the same.

How is that any different from murder? Or human slavery, violence based on racism etc etc?

 

Same reasoning could be said for each and any crime. But sexual related crimes are a taboo in western society - why? And why are well educated people let themself being influenced by taboos?

[jijilentosmi]

The site admin, based off his letter of resignation, came off as a pervert, for lack of a better term, and I can see why Jagex wants to distance themselves from that. Especially considering a large portion of the player base is under age.

[Nopenope]

Let it die.

[Thus]

The site admin, based off his letter of resignation, came off as a pervert, for lack of a better term, and I can see why Jagex wants to distance themselves from that. Especially considering a large portion of the player base is under age.

 

^This exactly. He is still a pedophile for distributing those in the first place. He said teenage pictures, so I'm going to just assume they were 13 at the time. Also he seemed to know a lot about child porn in adult book stores.

 

Not that RuneVillage loses anything; they were always inferior to Tip.it anyway.

[RU_Insane]

Those registrations are only there for future problems: IF you have another problem in the future, your penalty would be obviously worse if you have committed a similar crime in the past already.

 

 

Those registrations are not for future reference for repeat offences, that system is already in place in the form of your criminal record.

 

The register is public & there to protect the public & for future employers so he doesn't get to work in or around people/children of who he could abuse.

 

What you've just said is rubbish.

That's why they shouldn't be public, I'm saying those things are damaging a person more than necessary. - Hopefully now you get the point? - I am OPPOSED to public records of private things which follow you your whole life.

That is rubbish? - Good luck in the future, "big brother is watching you".

 

And we are discussing morals here, what you should, and should not do. It is impossible to leave religion out, as the basics for each religion is teaching morals. Maybe it is human nature, but do we have to admit this? Do we have to fall into our own mistakes again and again? Can't we learn and not act prejudiced? Those things only show a weakness.

 

You can't just stow away the information somewhere so you can save his "reputation". He ruined his own reputation, and since as I explained before, the matter is public, there's no need to keep the information private. What's public is what's required for the community to protect themselves against the offender. It doesn't state his bank PIN, it doesn't state his social security, and it doesn't state anything that could seriously compromise his security. Likewise, keeping the info public doesn't compromise his image; he is the one who compromised it. Secondly, the only scenario where your suggestion is remotely possible is if he were to get off the sex offender's list -- which is dependent upon your conviction and the laws of the state you're living in. IIRC, laws regard sexual offenses are not kind toward convicts, so there's little chance of him getting off. Perhaps if he can prove himself that he's not a danger to society, he can be taken off. I don't know about that area so I can't say anything further.

 

His address isn't a compromise of his security?

 

What's at stake is greater than his individual security, unfortunately. I'm not saying posting that info isn't a compromise of his security. On the contrary, it's a consequence he'll have to live with, as I have said before. The legal process has served the due and fair punishment, and this is part of the punishment. It doesn't go deeper than that. Even then, it's a stretch to say posting his address in particular is a security breach. It's not hard to find someone's physical address if you look long enough. You can probably find mine within a few hours, maximum. Question is, what are you going to do when you obtain it? Mail him some anthrax?

 

I'd also think what goes through his mail is checked on considering he sent child pornography by mail as well as through digital transmission. As for unwanted calls/visits to his home, I think few people are willing enough to do that. Even then, it's an unfortunate consequence he'll have to face. I'll note that while there's a distinct possibility that people would strive to inflict harm on him (which I don't condone), posting that information has its benefits. People use his address to simply avoid it, for example, if they live in that area. Physical confrontation as opposed to avoidance is highly unlikely in my opinion.

[pulli23]

I have a hatred against muslims, can I visit their houses too?

 

It's unfortunate, but sadly I dislike muslims who committed crimes.

[foofoomagoo]

I have a hatred against muslims, can I visit their houses too?

 

It's unfortunate, but sadly I dislike muslims who committed crimes.

 

By all means go ahead and visit them. I don't really understand how this relates to the sex offender registry though.

[pulli23]

I have a hatred against muslims, can I visit their houses too?

 

It's unfortunate, but sadly I dislike muslims who committed crimes.

 

By all means go ahead and visit them. I don't really understand how this relates to the sex offender registry though.

I mean it's silly to measure with 2 measurements.

 

Sex offenders are worse than murderers? - Violent robbers? - Or people participating in enslavery?