Tip.It Times - 11th September 2011

[RU_Insane]

Thanks everyone who read my article. It was originally going to touch on the more tangible aspects of why I'm leaving, like bots and Jagex's poor practices, but they're talked about so much I wanted to cover something a little broader. It's just saddening to me, really, that RuneScape is past it's hay day. FT/W was supposed to herald a new golden age but it's simply brought us back into a dark age.

 

Jagex is a business and RuneScape has to make money - but it's not having mine.

 

I don't think we should have expected the FT/W return to usher in an era of unadulterated bliss. We took free trade and wilderness for granted, and so no one expected them to be taken away. The majority of us have formed our experiences before the FT/W removal, so of course when we were longing for them to return, we only thought of the positive aspects and not the negative impacts of FT/W. Six years ago, people were still complaining about bots. The problem today is much the same, except over the course of the post-FT/W era, changes were implemented that exacerbated the effects the return of FT/W would have on the game -- easier leveling, easier account creation, gold was devalued enormously, increased emergent game-play (the introduction of dice), and so forth. Cheaters certainly saw the benefits they could reap from these changes, and took advantage of it. We simply didn't have the things in the pre-FT/W removal era that we did post-removal, so we can't expect the same outcome for its return.

[Central_Keeper]

I think majority of the players would agree that bot, RWT, and Jagex new PR strategies have put a huge dent on their reputation. I always support the use of GE, no Wildy, and no FT because the benefits it brought in. It's too bad Jagex has to impose such a control couple years ago. Well, who can blame them, some players choose to cheat over playing honestly. Even though the first article might seen like another rant disguise as a Tip It Times. I still feel it somewhat chilling that even one of their loyal fan is finally giving up on the game due to deterioating in game experience and no real resolution offered to combat current problem.

 

I don't think starting a new point in life would have force people to giving up on the game, but that's just my view. I started this game while I was in university, and it has somewhat helped me through school work (read stuff while I RS). I know a few players in game that said they have to give up RS due to RL event like getting married or going to university. Interestingly enough, they all came back in the end.

 

I don't think majority of the players (esp veterans) will quit permeantly, but we probably won't put much effort like we did as we used to during the game's golden age.

 

@Racheya, good luck with university, and you can always go to 1k plus world, and foreign worlds to enjoy slightly less bots experience if you ever getting bored with uni stuff.

[Sona]

The irony is that the number of subscribers actually went up even after all the updates - from most trends websites, RS's population has consistently hung around ~1 mil subscribers. Currently, it is hovering around 1.3 mil subscribers and the number has increased rather than decreased over the last few months.

 

This is going to sound harsh, but were I Jagex, I'd take 300k bots (if they're all bots, which I doubt is the case - look at how hyped people were about citadels, for instance) and its profits over the vocal minority any day. The truth is, they're making money. Until something happens that'll make them lose money, nothing's going to change.

[stonewall337]

Really didn't like the times this week.

First article can be seen all over the first and second page of general forums right here on tip.it. Just felt like the author had to have a spotlight on her one last time before she left.

Second article kinda just stated a generalised observation.

 

Meh.

+1. People quit. They don't like changes, they don't like what the company does, they don't have time, different priorities, etc. In fact, an article on how change, whether its a change in the game, something that happened in game, or out, or a change to the company, and how it affects people starting/restarting/stopping games would have been far more interesting, and elucidating, and wouldn't have seemed so narcissistic.

[Sly_Wizard]

Weird. When I went off to college, I played Runescape more, not less :P

 

But, seriously. People quit all the time. I don't know why it's made into a big deal. Hell, I myself have "quit" probably ten times now, and yet I'm still playing.

[SwreeTak]

I think both of the articles were quite good. Not the best ones that have been published though, since both of them took up points that have already been discussed so much recently.

However, what Racheya says about players coming back to the game in her article, is worth pointing out. I agree fully with the opinion that not only a few, but quite a lot, of people return to the game after having "quitted", just because we have this "..desire to make the pixels on our screen look exactly the way we want them."

[Helm_Lardar]

I don't know why, but when people write articles or threads about how they're quitting, I honestly couldn't care less. It's like they just want the attention-if they only wanted to make it clear and why all they'd have to do is put something in their sig saying 'I've left Runescape-not that fun anymore'

[I_am_Geed]

Leaving by Racheya comment

 

I think this "rant" is basically just a disguise for the fact that the author has become grown and has discovered that there are other things in life besides Runescape which are much more important - for example: to study at a university among other things.

 

This. Nothing lasts forever, so enjoy it while you can. I had my Runescape phase, and now its over. Do I regret it? Heck no! I met a lot of awesome people here on tif and I still plan to be a part of the community here, I just have no more interest in playing runescape anymore.

 

I guess im in a similar boat to Rach

[SelfishLiar]

This is on "Leaving" by Racheya. quote-"RuneScape has given me some really great times over the years - it's just not working for me any longer."

 

Just a personal thing I've tried to ask myself. What does RuneScape do for me? I was talking to a guy who was saying that video games don't do anything. I guess they just waste time. They don't make me money. And people I know don't want me playing them. I play them alot and I don't clean the house. But I also think that I complain less when I play, it gives me something to do besides clean the house or pull the weeds, and it makes my head feel fuzzy. What I wanted video games to do was make me forget about eating so I could loose weight.

 

I would've liked to have known what "great times" RuneScape has been and what used to work.

[GregorDGrim]

What does RuneScape do for me? I was talking to a guy who was saying that video games don't do anything. I guess they just waste time. They don't make me money. And people I know don't want me playing them. I play them alot and I don't clean the house. But I also think that I complain less when I play, it gives me something to do besides clean the house or pull the weeds, and it makes my head feel fuzzy. What I wanted video games to do was make me forget about eating so I could loose weight.

That's pretty funny. I was just having this discussion with my girlfriend last evening. I was muttering to myself about messing up on a quest, and she asked if everything was okay. I told her it was just in the game, and she laughed, thinking I was doing something work-related on the computer and getting frustrated. I said "I just wasted time doing something" and she responded "The whole thing is a waste of time, isn't it?" I said that every game is a waste of time, but it's certainly no worse than sitting in front of the television for a few hours.

 

Man must play, to balance out the work. As long as it's fun, I will continue with Runescape. When it ceases to be fun, I'll move on to something else.

[canadiansmurf]

How times change. What happened to this fan site? I think it's ironic that someone who blindly championed Jagex in the past in now whinging about how Jagex is going downhill and how they are quitting.

 

This sets an ugly tone for the people currently playing.

 

We've all been through this, Runescape now is not the game I started playing years ago, in fact it has not been since the trade restrictions.

 

 

In fact this third wave or fourth wave of people quitting in disgust over the game seems so spoiled. They were the ones who loudly championed ALL of Jagex's decisions especially when they were new to the game and now they are the ones loudly complaining about every Jagex decision. Spoiled hypocrites.

 

Runescape is fun to play with a group of real life friends. Who cares about the bots? The magic and the core of the game is still there if you can look past the many flaws.

[Hamtaro]

It's ironic you mention change and then assume a person who previously supported Jagex is required to support them indefinitely. That's like being a fan of an athlete and then being called a hypocrite for no longer supporting him after he's caught taking steroids. Also, you're making a pretty irrational assumption when you claim people who quit now have somehow automatically supported everything Jagex has done prior to these past few months.

 

RuneScape is fun to play with a group of real life friends? Too bad all of my IRL friends were smart enough to quit years ago (as is the case with many of us).

 

Who cares about the bots? Try the vast majority of players (hence the 9001 new bot rants every week). They make the game unbearable to play as training spots are filled beyond the traditional capacity and they skew prices of items to be a nuisance for real players.

 

And this one single article somehow sets a non-existent "ugly tone" for people who still play? That's like saying your quality of life diminished because one person said "life sucks" to you once.

[Yay0siris]

No offence but i could have read half the topics in general discussion and got the same outcome regarding the quitting article. I realize most topics are exhausted but at least choose original pieces to be featured on tip.it

[justjuice]

Thanks everyone who read my article. It was originally going to touch on the more tangible aspects of why I'm leaving, like bots and Jagex's poor practices, but they're talked about so much I wanted to cover something a little broader. It's just saddening to me, really, that RuneScape is past it's hay day. FT/W was supposed to herald a new golden age but it's simply brought us back into a dark age.

 

Jagex is a business and RuneScape has to make money - but it's not having mine.

well im sure that Runescape with survive very well without your membership or dollars , maybe its time for u to grow up and live in the real world ...its just a game which is fun and if u dont enjoy the game dont play , tired of people bleeping about how they feel sold out by Jagex......News Flash folks its a gameeeeeeeee

[Lose No Hope]

Thanks everyone who read my article. It was originally going to touch on the more tangible aspects of why I'm leaving, like bots and Jagex's poor practices, but they're talked about so much I wanted to cover something a little broader. It's just saddening to me, really, that RuneScape is past it's hay day. FT/W was supposed to herald a new golden age but it's simply brought us back into a dark age.

 

Jagex is a business and RuneScape has to make money - but it's not having mine.

well im sure that Runescape with survive very well without your membership or dollars , maybe its time for u to grow up and live in the real world ...its just a game which is fun and if u dont enjoy the game dont play , tired of people bleeping about how they feel sold out by Jagex......News Flash folks its a gameeeeeeeee

I don't think you understand the point of the article, or what she is trying to say.

[jaklumen]

I don't know why, but when people write articles or threads about how they're quitting, I honestly couldn't care less. It's like they just want the attention-if they only wanted to make it clear and why all they'd have to do is put something in their sig saying 'I've left Runescape-not that fun anymore'

 

^this.

 

I think the Times can do much, much better. How? Okay, I'll tell you.

 

I gave you an example before, and I'm going to do it again. The Nightmare of Working for Customer Service, by Hugh_Mannity. Read it. No, seriously. Before anyone starts thinking "But Jagex customer support still sucks five years later," or decides to reply as such, allow me to explain the context to which I'm referring. Yes, customer support needs a lot of work, but I'm referring to a broader concept of corporate growing pains.

 

What?

 

Okay, time for a quote. Yep, one of the very same ones I used before.

 

The ones that always get me are those who believe that because they pay $5/month (or whatever the fee for service is in the product I'm supporting) they're entitled to $5,000 worth of service any and every time they call. It isn't so. Entitlement scum are the world's worst.

 

Spot on. Yes, I know membership fees have gone up a little, but it is NOTHING compared to the many other games out there that give Jagex competition. World of Warcraft is what, 15US$? (Pardon me if I've got that wrong, as well-- I'm too lazy to look it up.) My point is that while there are a lot more MMOs now than 2006, they all still charge higher subscription rates-- and even the ones that are toying with the idea of free play are a lot more restricted. Here's the rub, though: the Runescape community has got a terrible reputation of being very, very demanding, and really quick with the complaints.

 

Another quote:

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Jagex doesn't need a corporate overhaulget in a few veteran management types to look at their business systems and rebuild them in a more efficient and cost-effective manner.

 

THAT"S HAPPENING right now. What? No, really, go ask an MBA or other business student/grad sometime. If ForsakenMage is still around, she might tell you. Um... let's put it this way... you get what you pay for. Yeah, back to the previous quote. Runescape members pay about 5US$ each month and expect customer service that would cost many times that much? I think some of you haven't dealt with enough outsourced CS or know why businesses are doing it. I worked with the Crew for a short time-- I remember the junk that came flowing in on the feedback form. No, I don't mean the spam stuff, I mean the "Dear Jagex, listen to me because I am a parent and I'm mad because my kid got hacked." I think many don't have a real clue how customer support typically works, and based on replies I got the last time I brought this up... I still say that.

 

I'm 37 years old. Plenty of people my age still game. Sadly, I remember some of them blowing hard cash on Facebook games that had pitiful scripts. Yep, Mafia Wars, Farmville, etc., all comes to mind. And I'm not going to say they couldn't be melodramatic about it. But over here... well the people I *know* are in my age group here are pretty silent on this subject. Pay attention, kids. That means they don't give two farts to the wind about you quitting. And as it's been pointed out very clearly-- people quit all the time. People have threatened to quit BEFORE, too. BOY DONE CRIED WOLF, SON. So Racheya makes a big high-profile post on it when it's been said dozens of times... yeah, okay, I will admit it's grabbed people's attention, but I'm inclined to say, "Yeah, yeah, whatever, the wolf is not there."

 

I'm gobsmacked, y'know? People whined and cried so hard even when the Gowers were still quite involved. What, you don't believe my lawsuit story? Fine. Go ask someone else who remembered that. But I hope you get my drift that an adult like me (Andrew is 34, supposedly) gets MIGHTY TIRED of listening to customers that rant and rave about things they probably know very, very little about. And if anyone remembers WHAT he said after he threatened Tip.It with a lawsuit... they should remember he's no suit and never will be. Again, he forms Fen Research... so he can get back to coding/programming. What is so hard to understand about that? Not to mention wow... ingratitude, really.

 

$5/month is a drop compared to my regular expenses-- more as I've got a house of my own, finally. And DON"T GET ME WRONG-- I was plenty idealistic up through my twenties. But after a while, it's just not a high priority.

 

Blah blah blah blah BLAH BLAH BLAH. I'm bored with my own writing here. Okay, bottom line:

 

Tip.It, you've got people here that can write stuff that is more... objective. I understand that it can't be too analytical or the younger teens go to sleep. Believe it or not, I do remember that. But melodramatics is annoying after so many years, although I freely admit I've met too many gamers of every single stripe (games, games, any games, not just pixelated) that were heavy on the drama llama.

 

Oh, yeah. I was in the Super Mod chair before, too. Yada yada Tip.It is over the drama, right? Heh, I guess not. Sorry, Racheya, I had no idea who you were when Silverion gave me a remote control, so to speak. That means... yeah, facepalm, or something to that effect. Thanks for the memories and all that.

 

Once again, most of my peers... I think most of them don't even care about this stuff, so maybe the fact I'm saying anything at all might have some meaning. Well, it means more that I care. But, uh, whatever, I guess.

[jaklumen]

p.s. "Earn Your Keep"... sloppy writing.

 

Yes, that is way harsh. Sorry. It's not proofreading stuff-- spelling, grammar, etc. is fine, very good, even. I mean that the style wanders and I have trouble getting the gist or main idea.

 

Okay, you saw me blather up there, so am I making any sense, then? The writing could be much more tight and focused. Keep in mind I have no idea what the deadlines and circumstances were.

[Assume Nothing]

I'll share a little insight (mods remove this post if it's too confidential, but I don't think it is) - schedules are made a week prior to the month, and authors are given one article to be due per month. Editors get two, although there's two editors available per week.

 

A problem with writing for the Times would be the coupled time sensitive issues with school related work - authors don't have much free time to come up with ideas, or time to develop on the idea. It's not an easy job for sure.

 

If you feel you could do better for the times, you should consider applying, or writing a guest article. We're constantly looking for new talent who could offer a new perspective.

[Doomster]

There's quite a difference between "I don't have time" and "I don't want to", a bit like finding the new producers of your favourite TV show make such a dogs breakfast of the next series that you just don't want to make time for it. After all, unlike some games where the world continues and attacks you even while offline, Runescape can be as occasional as you like, though of course, no point paying for membership if you only drop in once in a while.

 

The other question that can be asked, is there an end, an endgame? - For completionists, the answer is, at "everything done" - after all, when you look at games you buy, rather than subscribe to, actually, how long do THEY really last - ok, sometimes you'd be fading from one to the next in the series, but can anything really have indefinite appeal?

[stonewall337]

It's ironic you mention change and then assume a person who previously supported Jagex is required to support them indefinitely. That's like being a fan of an athlete and then being called a hypocrite for no longer supporting him after he's caught taking steroids. Also, you're making a pretty irrational assumption when you claim people who quit now have somehow automatically supported everything Jagex has done prior to these past few months.

 

RuneScape is fun to play with a group of real life friends? Too bad all of my IRL friends were smart enough to quit years ago (as is the case with many of us).

 

Who cares about the bots? Try the vast majority of players (hence the 9001 new bot rants every week). They make the game unbearable to play as training spots are filled beyond the traditional capacity and they skew prices of items to be a nuisance for real players.

 

And this one single article somehow sets a non-existent "ugly tone" for people who still play? That's like saying your quality of life diminished because one person said "life sucks" to you once.

You might have some bearing...if the person in question did not ALWAYS take Jagex's side...not matter what. Big difference then changing from being a bears fan to a Packers fan. Logic. TIF lacks it.

[SwreeTak]

There's quite a difference between "I don't have time" and "I don't want to", a bit like finding the new producers of your favourite TV show make such a dogs breakfast of the next series that you just don't want to make time for it. After all, unlike some games where the world continues and attacks you even while offline, Runescape can be as occasional as you like, though of course, no point paying for membership if you only drop in once in a while.

 

The other question that can be asked, is there an end, an endgame? - For completionists, the answer is, at "everything done" - after all, when you look at games you buy, rather than subscribe to, actually, how long do THEY really last - ok, sometimes you'd be fading from one to the next in the series, but can anything really have indefinite appeal?

 

I just wanted to comment on the first paragraph here: Most people who quit with the reason "I don't have time" actually means "I don't want to play anymore".

[Jaffy1]

I think the Times can do much, much better. How? Okay, I'll tell you.

 

I gave you an example before, and I'm going to do it again. The Nightmare of Working for Customer Service, by Hugh_Mannity. Read it. No, seriously. Before anyone starts thinking "But Jagex customer support still sucks five years later," or decides to reply as such, allow me to explain the context to which I'm referring. Yes, customer support needs a lot of work, but I'm referring to a broader concept of corporate growing pains.

 

Although I understand the point you are making in your post (be it rather crudely worded), I do not agree that this particular article is above the standard I have come to know when reading the Times. It contains flawed argumentation and was rather one-sided.

 

I work in customer support myself and know the frustrations that come along with it. I teach, and I tutor failing students, so there too I understand the frustrations. If Jagex employees can't deal with their job they should look for another, because in all fairness they do choose to do that for a living.

 

Anyway, I agree in that it is unfair to blame Jagex customer support employees for everything and that a large number of players (and perhaps parents even) may be crude and unreasonable to them. However, I agree with Racheya that certain things did change for the worse. I feel her reasoning is legitimate and it does express views shared by others. Does it deserve a feature on the Times? Matter of opinion.

 

In my humble opinion, you appear to be overreacting somewhat.

[GregorDGrim]

 

I'm 37 years old. Plenty of people my age still game. Sadly, I remember some of them blowing hard cash on Facebook games that had pitiful scripts. Yep, Mafia Wars, Farmville, etc., all comes to mind. And I'm not going to say they couldn't be melodramatic about it. But over here... well the people I *know* are in my age group here are pretty silent on this subject. Pay attention, kids. That means they don't give two farts to the wind about you quitting. And as it's been pointed out very clearly-- people quit all the time.

As someone in your age group, I wanted to comment that this paragraph rings very true with me.

[Hamtaro]

It's ironic you mention change and then assume a person who previously supported Jagex is required to support them indefinitely. That's like being a fan of an athlete and then being called a hypocrite for no longer supporting him after he's caught taking steroids. Also, you're making a pretty irrational assumption when you claim people who quit now have somehow automatically supported everything Jagex has done prior to these past few months.

 

RuneScape is fun to play with a group of real life friends? Too bad all of my IRL friends were smart enough to quit years ago (as is the case with many of us).

 

Who cares about the bots? Try the vast majority of players (hence the 9001 new bot rants every week). They make the game unbearable to play as training spots are filled beyond the traditional capacity and they skew prices of items to be a nuisance for real players.

 

And this one single article somehow sets a non-existent "ugly tone" for people who still play? That's like saying your quality of life diminished because one person said "life sucks" to you once.

You might have some bearing...if the person in question did not ALWAYS take Jagex's side...not matter what. Big difference then changing from being a bears fan to a Packers fan. Logic. TIF lacks it.

I liked the part where you said Racheya always took Jagex's side "not matter what."

[spoiler=Except for, you know...]http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=665

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=643

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=627

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=616

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=606

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=594

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=580

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=557

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=544

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=528

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?times=451

and the list goes on.

 

 

You summed it up well, though :rolleyes: .

Logic. TIF lacks it.

[Alg]

p.s. "Earn Your Keep"... sloppy writing.

 

Yes, that is way harsh. Sorry. It's not proofreading stuff-- spelling, grammar, etc. is fine, very good, even. I mean that the style wanders and I have trouble getting the gist or main idea.

 

Okay, you saw me blather up there, so am I making any sense, then? The writing could be much more tight and focused. Keep in mind I have no idea what the deadlines and circumstances were.

More complicated than they should have been. My fault :razz:

It was better than the even more directionless dead horse article I originally had in mind.