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Promethium 2h vs. Primal Battleaxe Bind


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37 members have voted

  1. 1. Prom 2h vs. Primal Baxe

    • Promethium 2h
      11
    • Primal Battleaxe
      26


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Notasoupbowl What Rahzam and ghjkl failed to mention is that they both do leech floors almost exclusively, which primal 2h would definitely be better for.

Did a 7 floor row all <13 mins y'day, clearly im DG handicapped & not adept enough to use a primal battle axe. I also use my hex much less than the average player so I don't see why 2h would be better for me w/ your logic. My argument w/ b axe is not its dps but because the slower and more concentrated attacks from 2hs help tremendously in getting the map itself done faster. If DPS was all that mattered the ideal hero map binds wouldn't have a chain/plate in them. The majority of gd's SHOULD be solo'd anyway so the whole prioritizing monsters promotes an incorrect approach to how to DG as a whole.

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Speaking in terms of DPS, how come Primal Rapiers aren't so great, like Prim Rapier + a crush weapon?

 

Anyways I'd personally use a prom 2h, till you can use a prim 2h.

Pinata.png
Capes in order: Firemaking - Cooking - Construction - 99 Dungeoneering
- 120 Dungeoneering - Quest - Strength - Prayer - Herblore - Constitution
- Attack - Defence - Ranged - Runecrafting - Magic - Fletching - Mining

- Farming - Smithing - Slayer - Woodcutting - Summoning - Thieving - Hunter

- Fishing - Agility - Crafting - Divination - Max - Completionist

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0101

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All info posted by notasoupbowl, Quyneax, and others are supported by large amounts of practical testing and research (theoretical and non-theoretical). Rahzam and ghjkl, however, have nothing but conjecture and assumptions. You can tell by their posts that they're not taking your questions seriously.

 

PM me if you'd like more information on the actual numbers and practical applications of the three weapons in question.

 

Notasoupbowl already answered your question, but primal 2h vs. primal battleaxe is dependent on a variety of factors. What Rahzam and ghjkl failed to mention is that they both do leech floors almost exclusively, which primal 2h would definitely be better for. Razham also has a hex, which would further favor the 2h.

 

Ghjkl will likely continue to post [cabbage] numbers that are backed by zero evidence (and he certainly won't post evidence). Rahzam will continue to troll you.

 

As for your original question, primal battleaxe is indeed better than prom 2h in almost every situation.

If you truly have data to back your claims up then why are would you resort to private messages instead of posting it publicly?

My theory is that you actually do not have data and you just want to look smart.

You don't even know my rsn so how would you know that I do only leech floors exclusively?

My "[cabbage] numbers" come from dps calculations and 140m exp of experience in floors, much more than you have anyway. Rahzam also has much more experience than you.

See I can use ad hominem too!

It's not that hard.

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No need to spread around more info. Quy, TUI have already answered? .

azeem1992.png

 

Really? Cause as I recall it was you who was the one cussing me at base. Also, re-read what you just said: one 15 second delay (which is an exaggeration to begin with) ruins floor times? You are beyond ridiculous.

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All info posted by notasoupbowl, Quyneax, and others are supported by large amounts of practical testing and research (theoretical and non-theoretical). Rahzam and ghjkl, however, have nothing but conjecture and assumptions. You can tell by their posts that they're not taking your questions seriously.

 

PM me if you'd like more information on the actual numbers and practical applications of the three weapons in question.

 

Notasoupbowl already answered your question, but primal 2h vs. primal battleaxe is dependent on a variety of factors. What Rahzam and ghjkl failed to mention is that they both do leech floors almost exclusively, which primal 2h would definitely be better for. Razham also has a hex, which would further favor the 2h.

 

Ghjkl will likely continue to post [cabbage] numbers that are backed by zero evidence (and he certainly won't post evidence). Rahzam will continue to troll you.

 

As for your original question, primal battleaxe is indeed better than prom 2h in almost every situation.

If you truly have data to back your claims up then why are would you resort to private messages instead of posting it publicly?

My theory is that you actually do not have data and you just want to look smart.

You don't even know my rsn so how would you know that I do only leech floors exclusively?

My "[cabbage] numbers" come from dps calculations and 140m exp of experience in floors, much more than you have anyway. Rahzam also has much more experience than you.

See I can use ad hominem too!

It's not that hard.

Nah I've actually seen it, Grimy has a spread sheet that showed the dps rates of weapons, and where they level off and stuff, and if I remember the rapier was pretty good.

 

Found the spread sheet

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AldEhLOK6ejJdDFyYnJ0TXZpOUFLN2lidzk3RXBZSHc&single=true&gid=8&output=html

 

However I don't think this includes the berserker ring.

Pinata.png
Capes in order: Firemaking - Cooking - Construction - 99 Dungeoneering
- 120 Dungeoneering - Quest - Strength - Prayer - Herblore - Constitution
- Attack - Defence - Ranged - Runecrafting - Magic - Fletching - Mining

- Farming - Smithing - Slayer - Woodcutting - Summoning - Thieving - Hunter

- Fishing - Agility - Crafting - Divination - Max - Completionist

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0101

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You can't, but I am sure Grimy is working on that.

azeem1992.png

 

Really? Cause as I recall it was you who was the one cussing me at base. Also, re-read what you just said: one 15 second delay (which is an exaggeration to begin with) ruins floor times? You are beyond ridiculous.

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How the hell do you do DPS calculations without def values?

Not much discussion on it but,

http://forum.tip.it/topic/294628-dungeoneering-dps/

 

Ye those graphs shouldn't be the only basis for choosing a weapon and dps in dungeon is a lot more complicated because, switching styles etc.

Pinata.png
Capes in order: Firemaking - Cooking - Construction - 99 Dungeoneering
- 120 Dungeoneering - Quest - Strength - Prayer - Herblore - Constitution
- Attack - Defence - Ranged - Runecrafting - Magic - Fletching - Mining

- Farming - Smithing - Slayer - Woodcutting - Summoning - Thieving - Hunter

- Fishing - Agility - Crafting - Divination - Max - Completionist

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0101

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Share on other sites

All info posted by notasoupbowl, Quyneax, and others are supported by large amounts of practical testing and research (theoretical and non-theoretical). Rahzam and ghjkl, however, have nothing but conjecture and assumptions. You can tell by their posts that they're not taking your questions seriously.

 

PM me if you'd like more information on the actual numbers and practical applications of the three weapons in question.

 

Notasoupbowl already answered your question, but primal 2h vs. primal battleaxe is dependent on a variety of factors. What Rahzam and ghjkl failed to mention is that they both do leech floors almost exclusively, which primal 2h would definitely be better for. Razham also has a hex, which would further favor the 2h.

 

Ghjkl will likely continue to post [cabbage] numbers that are backed by zero evidence (and he certainly won't post evidence). Rahzam will continue to troll you.

 

As for your original question, primal battleaxe is indeed better than prom 2h in almost every situation.

If you truly have data to back your claims up then why are would you resort to private messages instead of posting it publicly?

My theory is that you actually do not have data and you just want to look smart.

You don't even know my rsn so how would you know that I do only leech floors exclusively?

My "[cabbage] numbers" come from dps calculations and 140m exp of experience in floors, much more than you have anyway. Rahzam also has much more experience than you.

See I can use ad hominem too!

It's not that hard.

 

Hi Losing Games. I can't post my data because the best way for me to present it is on a website that cannot be named on these forums, hence why I proposed a private message. Not sure why you didn't think of that.

 

Your's and Maz's exp doesn't really hold a candle to the experience of the all of the people involved in the research we do. Not that experience matters beyond a certain point, but you've decided to play that game, so I've responded in turn. :)

 

@ Maz - I actually like you as a person and I like dging with you, so don't take anything I say personally. I'm just stating the facts.

dgs5.jpg
To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Private messages still have to apply by tif rules.

2.6 - Private Messages

 

Unless otherwise noted, all Tip.it Forum Rules apply to private messages. This includes but is not limited to flaming, advertising and all of the Jagex rules. If the Tip.it Staff receives a complaint about the content of a private message, it will be dealt with as if it were a post and action may be taken against the offender. If you wish to report a private message, please utilize the "/!\ Report" button, do not create a topic on the public forums. Private messages are intended to be private and as such, posting them publicly without clear consent from the other party(s) involved is not permitted.

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How the hell do you do DPS calculations without def values?

Not much discussion on it but,

http://forum.tip.it/topic/294628-dungeoneering-dps/

 

Ye those graphs shouldn't be the only basis for choosing a weapon and dps in dungeon is a lot more complicated because, switching styles etc.

 

That's DPS at 100% accuracy, which makes it useless for our purposes.

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As my previous post on this implied negativity towards 2h (which is unintended, just I dislike negativity towards baxe) I added the relevant points that games and mazz suggested:

 

I recommend - Use a primal baxe over primal 2h if you: Pray flash, make ragers in warps, prioritize low def monsters first in teams, have a blood necklace, overload before floors frequently, have a csb bound & are a competent dnger in doing things such as looting/checking map losslessly

 

Many people prefer 2h over baxe because:

- it hits better when you really need it to - i.e. on bosses, mercs, ramos etc.

- they do not understand DPS, (like prefering a Godsword over Whip because it hits higher, except in this scenario it is not clear-cut; they are quite comparable)

- they do not prioritize in gds

- they do not flash turmoil or piety

- they see almost all the best players bind 2h, as

  • 2h suits hex bind more than baxe (due to dino armour & having to melee more melee-resistent things)
  • 2h suits cosmics/law bind more than baxe (due to having to melee even more melee-resistent things)

- you gain an additional tick to do the following things inbetween combat turns:

  • loot food / charms / drops etc
  • check map
  • mine ore for ragers
  • luring monsters to a safespot or more importantly to the next door you are entering

- you have a higher average hit when only attacking once, i.e.

  • gatestone trick
  • running through gds to open a non-gd door, i.e. attack once as you run
  • running to attack next monster that is far away

 

 

The 2h is the best all-rounder. And most of the good dngers are suited to bind it due to their preferance in binds.

Being the best all-rounder, if you do not use a csb it will perform better on average, especially in solo gds

 

I am not going to argue whether csb is better than cosmics/laws. That's a different topic & I'll leave that to personal preferance.

 

If DPS was all that mattered the ideal hero map binds wouldn't have a chain/plate in them. The majority of gd's SHOULD be solo'd anyway so the whole prioritizing monsters promotes an incorrect approach to how to DG as a whole.

Defensive binds are good for pathing.

When not suiciding, a lot of otherwise solo gds are done by the team instead. But yes, small path gds should be solo'd ideally. However, this does not mean prioritization should be ignored completely, as it is still important in all team gds. I suppose talking about prioritization too much does promote bad habits in terms of ggs movement & wanting the person with the highest dps in a given gd to come to the gd rather than path. Prioritization should not be ignored though still. But I do try and stress that pathing is always more important & ggs should be on the biggest path always.

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Well, I got my Primal Battleaxe (thanks to everyone who helped me hunt for it) and so far I'm really liking it! Thanks for all the advice, everybuddy.

trains2.png

[spoiler=I LOVE MY STATION]

 

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You're welcome. :)

azeem1992.png

 

Really? Cause as I recall it was you who was the one cussing me at base. Also, re-read what you just said: one 15 second delay (which is an exaggeration to begin with) ruins floor times? You are beyond ridiculous.

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