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NukeMarine

What If Jagex Allowed Players to Pay GP to Upkeep Citadels?


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Given that there is a concept called "Time is Money", I think it's legit to give players the choice to use gp as a means for their contribution to upkeep a clan citadel. Technically, they are already paying gp by using their time on the citadels instead of on RS proper. However, only skillers are given rings to help make up lost skilling time. All other players get no return on invested time.

 

Personal opinion, it should not be a simple "Pay and you're good to go". Jagex has a rough idea how much each skill produces or costs in the game thanks to the GE, so it can apply that here. Each area can have a paymaster and the cost per "10 minutes of work" could be based current estimate of what 10 minutes of work is worth. You can pay in chunks of 10 minutes. In addition, the payment only works if there's material for that plot. That means players can't pay for the smithing portion if they didn't pay (or no one gathered) for the coal portion.

 

Benefits: Turns into a variant of Player Owned Houses but with a constant money sink. Many, many clans have lots of gp, but don't want to waste time on citadels. This gives them an opportunity in addition to getting GP out of the game and stabilize prices.

 

Anyway, given the opinion on this forum that the Citadels were pretty much DOA this seems like a no brainer. Yeah, it'll tick off guys that want direct effort rewarded but I think they're a minority here.

 

Obviously looking for input on what would be good methods of allowing GP payments, and all benefits and detriments that go along with doing this.

 

*Edit* Took out references to skill levels as those aren't needed. Citadel upkeep is all about time. Players can pay for 10 minutes (whatever the game thinks 10 minutes of time is worth) and gathers whatever resources that would have been gathered in those 10 minutes. This happens in RS proper, so why shouldn't it happen in the Citadel?

 

In addition, players can "assists" other players so that the assisted player gather resources under the name of the assisting player. Again, this happens in RS Proper.


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No its an awful idea; why should the rich merchants etc all have tier 7 citadels because they have billions of gp spare while a strong dedicated team working clan get stuck toiling their way through the tiers as they aren't rich.

 

The issue of citadels being dead isn't because of upkeep etc; people would gladly do it if we had more incentive/use to do it aka let us put proper normal skill areas up there but make them usable only if you do clan resources eg say you could plant a forest outside the citadel walls t2 let you have normal, 3 adds oaks ...through to 7 adds mages but its only usable if you do around twice as much as needed to get clan ring (so like 200 resources)

Same could be applied to almost all skills and even could have a dungeon to release say 7 monsters into (1 room for each tier); though i think perhaps this would need something limiting on drops/what can be put in to avoid bottoming out market.

 

Or make it so the more cap you do the more awesome the ring becomes, sure you do about 100 and you get ring that offers a nice boost, but why not make it so if you cap out the ring offers a pretty epic boost.

 

But personally even without the ring being better just making it so we can build skilling areas and a few monsters and even some portals to jump to mini-games/dg and form teams would make them a zillion times better because it would be a place thats actually decent to spend time in.

I mean how nice would it be to be able to have the clan gathered yet still training like someone can be slaying black dragons or w/e in the dungeon and swapping hides for sharks with someone cooking in the kitchen while somewhere outside someones power wcing ivy near their mate hu is fly fishing.


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No its an awful idea; why should the rich merchants etc all have tier 7 citadels because they have billions of gp spare while a strong dedicated team working clan get stuck toiling their way through the tiers as they aren't rich.

 

The issue of citadels being dead isn't because of upkeep etc; people would gladly do it if we had more incentive/use to do it aka let us put proper normal skill areas up there but make them usable only if you do clan resources eg say you could plant a forest outside the citadel walls t2 let you have normal, 3 adds oaks ...through to 7 adds mages but its only usable if you do around twice as much as needed to get clan ring (so like 200 resources)

Same could be applied to almost all skills and even could have a dungeon to release say 7 monsters into (1 room for each tier)

 

Or make it so the more cap you do the more awesome the ring becomes, sure you do about 100 and you get ring that offers a nice boost, but why not make it so if you cap out the ring offers a pretty epic boost

Well, to be fair, a clan is still limited by the number of players in their clan. It's not just about being rich. Second, they are rich so it's likely they can pay workers so this can cut out the middle man and act as a nice money sink.

 

Your second point I agree with, but Jagex probably doesn't want the Citadel to be a skilling hub. Again, that just helps skillers. Not everyone in the game skills as the game offers many things to do. Again, this could be an area where both benefit.

 

Your third point I'll also agree with. However, it only applies to skillers or people willing to spend time. There are other types of players that prefer financial rewards for their time. Those types are likely to want to pay.


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A large money sink with some sort of benefit is exactly what runescape needs. It needs to be something that gives a real benefit, and something that any normal player can find useful. Sure, dicers, merchanters, etc., will be able to use this to their advantage, but as an overall the sink will be a huge benefit to the economy.

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I don't like the idea, but it would increase usage. I'm of the opinion that if there's no pain, there's no gain. I'm not a skiller, at all. I detest every form of it, but I'm part of a community. As a member of that community, it's my duty to put aside what I want to do to assist with gathering resources for an hour or so each week. I wouldn't care if we didn't get any XP, it's a community effort.

 

As much as I hate going out of my way to mine in the citadel, it's what's necessary for the whole clan to progress.


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no clans use citadels because it doesn't give anything useful


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no clans use citadels because it doesn't give anything useful

This.

It's not a matter of how to improve them, it's a matter of why should you improve them.


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I honestly don't care, because it is the clans own citadel, but it would spoil it for the people who don't want that option.


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My clan's been keeping on top of our resources, I think we get Tier 5 next Tuesday now. It's enjoyable, really, because you're doing it with people you know. It will be nice to be able to enjoy the finished Citadel and see that it was a group effort. I have money, plenty of it, but there's no fun when you can just buy everything.


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I'd be happy to see this implemented if it were fairly expensive - not that I'd pay, citadels are quite useless. Ten minutes of work @ 200k or so sounds about right, perhaps higher depending on the tier of the plot.


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I'd be happy to see this implemented if it were fairly expensive - not that I'd pay, citadels are quite useless. Ten minutes of work @ 200k or so sounds about right, perhaps higher depending on the tier of the plot.

This or something similar is what I was thinking. Now, I have not done citadels and don't plan on it. With that, I don't know how long it takes for early and later plots to gather resources. However, it makes sense to tie cost with both the time it takes to gather the resources and the skill levels required for that plot. The time it takes can even take the player's skill levels into account so that the lower you are in the skills the more it costs assuming lower skills take longer. In addition, Jagex should not make this a constant price, as it should adjust based on GP per hour (either profit or cost) associated with a certain skill for that plot over time.

 

Now, how to make Clan Citadels useful or more useful is a different issue. If Jagex is wise, it'll listen to the user base on those points. I'm more interested in the gathering process and the current limitations of it.

 

Last point: I think there are three types of players that can be catered to when it comes to gathering resources.

*Players that like to work - These guys are already covered.

*GP gatherers - These guys are talked about in this topic with paying for the resources.

*Players that don't like to work, but are wiling to hire others - They have the skills, but not the desire to grind out resource gathering. I think these types can be catered to by letting them either pay for resources, or let them skill assist others to gather resources for them. Say Player A is rich and lazy and Player B is poor but willing to work. Player B just finished gathering her resources for the week but would still like to work. Player A would like Player B to gather Player A's resources for him. Player A "assists" Player B, so now all resources gathered by Player B is attached to Player A (Player A must stay logged in and do nothing but chat like usual). Player A may even pay Player B for her efforts.


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I honestly don't care, because it is the clans own citadel, but it would spoil it for the people who don't want that option.

 

I would guess the clan leaders can set if they want such options available. They seem to have pretty much all control on other aspects anyway.


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Personally... If Jagex were to implement a form of payment for citadels instead of work... I'd want it to be easier to pay then spend time working on the citadel. Why? Because at the moment I don't even work on my citadel. If takes a fair bit of work to do the upkeep on it and there isn't any real benefit to it.

 

The fact that I'm not online often doesn't help either.


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Wow thats a horrible idea, why is this poll even getting a positive response? :o

Thats pretty much the same as microtransactions to me, giving the wealthy the upper hand and devaluing everyone elses work. No, just no.


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It should be a per-person opt-out. If a person doesn't want to skill, they can pay instead to have it done instantly. Obviously (depending on the amounts) the leader could just give everyone the money to pay, but at least then it still requires some coordination...

However, I think cosmetic-within-cosmetic details should be fully payable, such as the walls, greenery, statues, etc.


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It's a good idea, and one I've mulled over myself. The option to pay gp for resources (up to your resource cap) would encourage more people to contribute to their clan's citadel. It takes how long to get your week's resources? An hour and half, two? This is time spent each week on something that's, let's face it, a very click intensive grind for something that's low exp/hour and 0 gp/hour with no tangible benefit. This is something that, not surprisingly, some people don't find fun and end up not contributing at all to the citadel.

 

I first thought that such a system would be like you pay x amount of gp for 1 resource, but previous posts bring up another good scenario. Let's take clanmate A, he's wealthy and detests the turn brain on autopilot session that resource gathering is. Instead of doing that or even worse, turning his back on the clan by not contributing, he can go to the clan quartermaster. There he can put a work order in that any other clanmate can fill. For this example let's say the cost of putting in the work order is 300k per 100 resources. Clanmate A can put in as many work orders up to the resource cap. This is where clanmate B comes in, he could be wealthy or not so much, doesn't really matter. However, unlike clanmate A, clanmate B can't get enough of gathering resources for the citadel and is even sad when he caps his resources contribution. When he reaches his cap, he can make a visit to the quartermaster and is now qualified to accept work orders. He can only take on 1 at a time, so each time he gets 100 resources he has to go get another. Each work filled is rewarded with the princely sum of 200k (wonder what that sneaky quartermaster is doing with that extra 100k :P). Qualified clanmates (those that have capped their own resources by gathering) have no limit on how many work orders they can fill.

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A great idea. Support.


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I"d rather not see a GP option, or if there was one have it equate to 3m+ gp/h. If it was less than this I could see many who would rather make money than skill using the gp option, reducing the time players spend in the citadel.

 

As for the poll I voted "no impact" as it wouldn't increase the usefulness/uselessness of the citadels and therefore wouldn't increase the time players spend there. Whats the point of 50 people paying 'x' m/week to upkeep a T7 citadel? I highly doubt they'd use it for much.

 

Really don't like how that was worded "...as most players would not pay". No need to give a specific reason for one of the three options of the poll.

 

It's a good idea, and one I've mulled over myself. The option to pay gp for resources (up to your resource cap) would encourage more people to contribute to their clan's citadel. It takes how long to get your week's resources? An hour and half, two? This is time spent each week on something that's, let's face it, a very click intensive grind for something that's low exp/hour and 0 gp/hour with no tangible benefit. This is something that, not surprisingly, some people don't find fun and end up not contributing at all to the citadel.

 

I first thought that such a system would be like you pay x amount of gp for 1 resource, but previous posts bring up another good scenario. Let's take clanmate A, he's wealthy and detests the turn brain on autopilot session that resource gathering is. Instead of doing that or even worse, turning his back on the clan by not contributing, he can go to the clan quartermaster. There he can put a work order in that any other clanmate can fill. For this example let's say the cost of putting in the work order is 300k per 100 resources. Clanmate A can put in as many work orders up to the resource cap. This is where clanmate B comes in, he could be wealthy or not so much, doesn't really matter. However, unlike clanmate A, clanmate B can't get enough of gathering resources for the citadel and is even sad when he caps his resources contribution. When he reaches his cap, he can make a visit to the quartermaster and is now qualified to accept work orders. He can only take on 1 at a time, so each time he gets 100 resources he has to go get another. Each work filled is rewarded with the princely sum of 200k (wonder what that sneaky quartermaster is doing with that extra 100k :P). Qualified clanmates (those that have capped their own resources by gathering) have no limit on how many work orders they can fill.

Work orders are a terrible idea. The reason behind having resource caps are so more than a handful of people are needed to skill there. Having work orders would remove any need for the resource cap.


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Wow thats a horrible idea, why is this poll even getting a positive response? :o

Thats pretty much the same as microtransactions to me, giving the wealthy the upper hand and devaluing everyone elses work. No, just no.

It's getting positive and negative responses because there are positive and negative aspects to the idea. That's why there's value in discussing it.

 

First, it's nothing like microtransactions. It's still using ingame resources in the form of currency. If that makes it microtransaction, then construction is nothing but a big microtransaction skill.

 

Second, since I brought up construction, this helps make it similar to construction. If you're rich, you can pay for better material and level faster. Otherwise, you can go for slower but less expensive methods. The game has been played that way for nigh on a decade. I'm not sure if you're up on real world economy but it works that way too. You could walk from New York to LA. Take a bicycle. Take a motorcycle. Take a car. Take a train. Take a plane. All the methods get you to LA, just that the faster and more convenient methods cost more and more. How much money and how much time you can spare dictates your choice in the matter.

 

Thirdly, it does not devalue other's work. It puts a price on what one hour of work should be. Now, granted, bots have devalued work on this game a large amount. However, if there were no bots, how much would the average player charge for a large amount of flax or bowstring or pure essence or running that essence? Now answer the question since there are bots and we're dealing with something that not botted as much such as the Citadel. We might be talking about 1m to 2m gp for each hour (150k to 300k for every 10 minutes of resources). So, how much is an hour of your ingame time worth doing click intensive activities?


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I'm thinking that this is a somewhat poorer, more elaborately designed patch job made to fix the issue that they made resource gathering annoying and senseless because the entire thing was meant to be separate from RS and unprofitable so that people who didn't want to participate wouldn't complain. I feel that they get some kind of strange satisfaction at seeing how right they were about something being useless when all they really wanted was to avoid having to be in a clan to play good content, when they have in a roundabout way caused the problem.


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no clans use citadels because it doesn't give anything useful

 

As an Admin of a growing 70-man clan with a citadel soon to get into Tier 5, I can say with confidence that this isn't true. Citadels are really quite fun for socially-minded clan.

 

I don't think that this idea is very good. To paraphrase Yahtzee, the difference between a good long lived game and a game that gets boring quickly is that the former is a responsible parent and makes you work for your creations, and that's what makes it all the more enjoyable. I think that the biggest improvement for the least amount of work would be to make the Woodcutting patches more interesting and a bit faster. Perhaps using agility to move from root to root quicker would be more interesting.


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seems like a worthwhile idea, support :thumbup:


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I"d rather not see a GP option, or if there was one have it equate to 3m+ gp/h. If it was less than this I could see many who would rather make money than skill using the gp option, reducing the time players spend in the citadel.

 

As for the poll I voted "no impact" as it wouldn't increase the usefulness/uselessness of the citadels and therefore wouldn't increase the time players spend there. Whats the point of 50 people paying 'x' m/week to upkeep a T7 citadel? I highly doubt they'd use it for much.

 

Really don't like how that was worded "...as most players would not pay". No need to give a specific reason for one of the three options of the poll.

 

It's a good idea, and one I've mulled over myself. The option to pay gp for resources (up to your resource cap) would encourage more people to contribute to their clan's citadel. It takes how long to get your week's resources? An hour and half, two? This is time spent each week on something that's, let's face it, a very click intensive grind for something that's low exp/hour and 0 gp/hour with no tangible benefit. This is something that, not surprisingly, some people don't find fun and end up not contributing at all to the citadel.

 

I first thought that such a system would be like you pay x amount of gp for 1 resource, but previous posts bring up another good scenario. Let's take clanmate A, he's wealthy and detests the turn brain on autopilot session that resource gathering is. Instead of doing that or even worse, turning his back on the clan by not contributing, he can go to the clan quartermaster. There he can put a work order in that any other clanmate can fill. For this example let's say the cost of putting in the work order is 300k per 100 resources. Clanmate A can put in as many work orders up to the resource cap. This is where clanmate B comes in, he could be wealthy or not so much, doesn't really matter. However, unlike clanmate A, clanmate B can't get enough of gathering resources for the citadel and is even sad when he caps his resources contribution. When he reaches his cap, he can make a visit to the quartermaster and is now qualified to accept work orders. He can only take on 1 at a time, so each time he gets 100 resources he has to go get another. Each work filled is rewarded with the princely sum of 200k (wonder what that sneaky quartermaster is doing with that extra 100k :P). Qualified clanmates (those that have capped their own resources by gathering) have no limit on how many work orders they can fill.

Work orders are a terrible idea. The reason behind having resource caps are so more than a handful of people are needed to skill there. Having work orders would remove any need for the resource cap.

I can see that this could make it so that only a handful of people actually need to do the skilling, but I don't see that as an inherently bad thing. These people would be rewarded for their contribution to the clan above and beyond what is asked of them for the week, and people that don't want to do this aren't bothered as long as their work orders are filled. As for work orders removing the need for the resource cap, I disagree. People could only post work orders until their resource cap is met (a tier 1 storage giving 1k cap, meaning 10 work orders). People can only take work orders after they capped their own resources purely through their own skilling and could only take work orders if one of their clanmates posted one.

 

I see other positives to this system as well. Established players can help out newer players in their clan with this system. The newer players that don't normally make money as fast would end up being given money by the established players without it actually being charity. We were all new players at one point, one of the biggest concerns was "how can we afford anything?" I even get asked by players over 100 combat how to make money. If this system allows such players an accessible source of income, that could mean fewer beggers and fewer people tempted to real world trade. Unless some undeniable drawbacks to this system are brought to light, I see the positives outweighing the negatives.

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