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DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

 

nah, its actually to stop used software sales and, in the case of games, so that they can re-re-re-re-release it 10-20-30 years down the line as all the previous legitimate versions will nolonger work as all the drm will no longer function. meanwhile the pirated versions free of all that stuff will be fully functional and still circulating.

 

as a legitimate customer you should stop making piracy any of your concern, thats the company's problem, then you start demanding by not giving them custom to stop with these measures that only harm you so that they have to start looking for other methods that dont negatively effect you.

Let's assume this is true. The only thing they get to hide behind is trying to stop piracy. So the pirates are giving them an excuse.

 

Either way, pirates hurt the end user.

Unless that end user is a pirate.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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How is that being entitled? The company is not going to get money from me, under any circumstance, because I simply do not have $500. This is not an attempt to draw pity, because Rosetta Stone is entirely unnecessary in my life and I really don't need it. That, however, is besides the point. In one scenario, they get no money from me at all. In the other, there is a nonzero chance that they make a sale as the direct result of my piracy.

You're acting entitled because you've decided that you're going to use their software just because you want it.

 

 

Also, the second part of your post is really not true at all. Restrictive DRM is a problem with game companies, not pirates. It's one thing to protect your copyright, etc. but if that hurts paying customers then you're doing it wrong.

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

I'd argue that I'm helping their company. As I've pointed out numerous times now, they are actually more likely to make money when I pirate their software.

 

DRM is because of pirates, yes, but the DRM you're complaining about (ie the Ubisoft always online DRM) is bad at stopping pirates and only screws legitimate users. That's poor decision making from the publisher, not because of piracy.

 

 

How is that being entitled? The company is not going to get money from me, under any circumstance, because I simply do not have $500. This is not an attempt to draw pity, because Rosetta Stone is entirely unnecessary in my life and I really don't need it. That, however, is besides the point. In one scenario, they get no money from me at all. In the other, there is a nonzero chance that they make a sale as the direct result of my piracy.

 

Also, the second part of your post is really not true at all. Restrictive DRM is a problem with game companies, not pirates. It's one thing to protect your copyright, etc. but if that hurts paying customers then you're doing it wrong.

It's entitlement because the pirate still gets the product in the end, and the arguments often come across as "I can't/won't pay for this, but should still be able to get a copy, and any attempts to prevent me from doing so are a result of corporate greed/the evils of capitalism/etc".

 

That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

TANSTAAFL

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That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

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That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

You've yet to counter my argument so I'd reason that I'm doing well.

TANSTAAFL

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The point that Roccodog is making is correct: many of the people who pirate wouldn't be able to afford 2.4K for a CAD package or may not be willing to buy Microsoft office for £230, the point is that the product is not going to be brought by that user.

And so the company gets nothing.

 

 

How is it any different if it is pirated?

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I see where Rocco is going but that is assuming those pirates still buy software when they can.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

You've yet to counter my argument so I'd reason that I'm doing well.

You might not have enough money now to buy the software, but let's say you have some luck and win a lottery, or a rich relative dies. Now that you have a ton of money, you're not going to buy their software because you've already pirated it.

 

Either way it doesn't matter, you're still acting entitled.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

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That might be what the arguments come across as, but that's not what I'm arguing. It is physically impossible for them to make money from me buying the software, because I can't buy the software. However, it is physically possible for them to make money from me pirating the software because of my ability to recommend it to people.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to the product, I'm just doing them a favor.

You're not really helping your case.

You've yet to counter my argument so I'd reason that I'm doing well.

You might not have enough money now to buy the software, but let's say you have some luck and win a lottery, or a rich relative dies. Now that you have a ton of money, you're not going to buy their software because you've already pirated it.

 

Either way it doesn't matter, you're still acting entitled.

Well I buy what I can afford, for instance when I pirate music and like it I tend to purchase their CDs / t shirts / go to their shows. If I pirated CS4 when I had no money, liked it, and then won the lottery, I'd purchase CS5.

 

You haven't actually made any points to support the idea that I'm acting entitled...

TANSTAAFL

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You haven't actually made any points to support the idea that I'm acting entitled...

By pirating media, you're not respecting others rights to their intellectual property. You're acting as if all software is available to you at no cost, you're acting entitled.

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Pirating should be illegal. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't have bought it, you're using their product without having paid for it.

 

 

I still pirate, and I still encourage others to pirate. I simply don't care that it's illegal. Yes, it's wrong. No, I shouldn't be doing it. Oh well.

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You haven't actually made any points to support the idea that I'm acting entitled...

By pirating media, you're not respecting others rights to their intellectual property. You're acting as if all software is available to you at no cost, you're acting entitled.

Intellectual property my ass. I've already proven to you that they will make more money if I download their software. Who cares if I'm "acting entitled", I'm helping the software company by pirating their software.

 

 

Pirating should be illegal. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't have bought it, you're using their product without having paid for it.

 

 

I still pirate, and I still encourage others to pirate. I simply don't care that it's illegal. Yes, it's wrong. No, I shouldn't be doing it. Oh well.

 

I understand that I didn't pay for it, but what is actually wrong with what I'm doing? The software company makes more money at the end of the day, so what's the difference? I get undue enjoyment?

TANSTAAFL

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What you're doing wrong, Rocco, is you are denying them the reward for their work. Basic human feels of fairness gives us the idea that if we put work to a product, we want a reward. This is where the whole "Pirating is stealing" mentality comes in.

 

Pirates are wrong-do'ers. You can't explain your way out of it, that's just how it is. I pirate occasionally and I already know what I'm doing is technically wrong. But there's no heaven or hell so there's no real consequence now is there?

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Speaking of CAD or software companies like Autodesk, for example, they are actually making their products FREE to download now. You can just put in your school name, make an account (even with fake details and pick a school you've never been to) and then they allow you to get all or most of their software for free - no trial, indefinetly. That's an example of one company that has adapted to the situation and, the way i see it, is acting smart

 

My argument to that would be that the majority of those who use their products won't make the leap into making a living out of it and will probably stop using that piece of software sooner or later. As Rocco said, since the software would have cost 4000$+ it's safe to say they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, hence no gain, no loss for Autodesk. Your argument that, regardless of whether or not they lose money, the mere fact that they've stolen something and deprived a person/entity of their intellectual rights wouldn't make alot of difference in this case because, as far as Autodesk is concerned, all they care about is the money. Everything else is secondary to it. If it brings them no loss/gains and hence does not affect them they could care less. More so, it's free publicity for them to have their product gain such widespread use.

 

Now let us take the other outcome - people pirate their software, they stick to it and end up making a living out of it. At that point they will be forced into buying a copy of the product(s), which results in a profit for Autodesk, profit which, i would like to add, may or may not have come otherwise to Autodesk, since the person who pirated the software in the first place might not have even dreamed of going into the bussiness if he had not been able to try it out first and see that he likes it. Now that would mean that Autodesk made a profit and, more so, secured a future customer, wouldn't it? What they are doing is effectively nurturing a class of people which will grow up with their products and end up making a profit for the company where there very well could have been none.

 

As far as i see it with CAD, animation, modeling, editing and such programs, as long as you're not making any profit with them they could be given for free. Ofcourse the problem there is that people would start lieing and say 'im not making any profit, get off my back' even when they ARE making profits.

 

Now you might say 'Well, he could have just gone to a school and had a legal copy there to practice his hobby, if he liked this type of stuff so much'. That's a valid argument, but i would say that alot of those who pirate it simply dont have the means to go to such a school, or maybe they don't know they want to before expriencing the product for themselves.

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

 

Then pirate it. The company doesn't exist anymore, so nobody is getting hurt.

 

But the vast, vast majority of pirating is done with games/music/movies/whatever from companies that still exist.

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

 

Then pirate it. The company doesn't exist anymore, so nobody is getting hurt.

 

But the vast, vast majority of pirating is done with games/music/movies/whatever from companies that still exist.

One of the few times I'm pro-piracy is for products that are out of print, whether or not the company is still in business. Especially when the alternative is buying it secondhand, since you're going to pay through the nose for it to a third party and have no guarantee that it'll even work.

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I'm pretty sure that as long as products costs money, people will pirate them.

People will pirate things that cost no money what-so-ever. Recently an indie developer released the sales figures for his game, and even figured out how many copies were pirated. Even when people didn't have to pay a cent, they pirated it.

 

But if a consumer priates as a susbtitute for buying (which can often be the case with prgrams), the the company loses money. So you're not stealing the product, you're stealing money.

If I haven't bought your product within 2 months of pirating it, you can go [bleep] yourself if you think I'll ever pay what you ask for it. If I do pirate it, doesn't mean I won't buy it later as a "Thanks for an awesome product at a price I find reasonable, I hope you can continue to make such awesome things."

 

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

DRM is there to keep the shareholders happy, and, in the gaming industry, so that little Tommy will pester his mum to buy the game for him, since he isn't old enough to learn how to use cracks, hex editors or even edit configs or the hosts file.

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Considering just how conservative (soc and econ) the us is, this really isn't much of a surprise.

I would prefer even to fail with honor than to win by cheating - Sophocles

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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One effective way is (surprisingly) anti-copy tools. For example, activating adobe software is a headache at best, whereas when activating a pirated version of Office 2010 you actually have to phone up microsoft.. If you improve your anti-piracy tools, people will still crack it (people will manage to crack anything), but it will be harder, such as when pirating adobe software you have to use a keygen or a bunch of keys on a program, then go and edit your hosts file and do a whole myriad of other stuff. Granted, it isn't really an option for smaller corporations, but a majority of the software produced by said corporations is low-user base, thus logically it's harder to pirate because less seeds and there may not even be a torrent available.

 

I also agree with whoever said ridiculous prices put people off buying software. There is not a way in hell that I'm buying Rosetta Stone for 500, neither would my parents. If it was perhaps 100, maybe I could convince my parents to get it for a school suppliment or whatever, but 500 is truly stupid. (That 500 figure is circa how much it would be, not completely accurate)

RIP TET

 

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I remembering hearing a pod-cast once. It was between the two owners of a company that sold a 3d software package worth thousands of dollars. They said that at one point they spent six months devising and implementing anti-piracy safeguards into their software (time which they themselves readily said could have instead been used to provide more useful updates for the product), only to have it cracked within the first week of release. After that, they decdided to not put as much effort into preventing their product from being pirated, and just focus on updates.

 

As i read on a pirate forum - the ones who actually crack the expensive software do it for the challenge.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

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