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Nomrombom

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You haven't actually made any points to support the idea that I'm acting entitled...

By pirating media, you're not respecting others rights to their intellectual property. You're acting as if all software is available to you at no cost, you're acting entitled.

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Pirating should be illegal. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't have bought it, you're using their product without having paid for it.

 

 

I still pirate, and I still encourage others to pirate. I simply don't care that it's illegal. Yes, it's wrong. No, I shouldn't be doing it. Oh well.

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What you're doing wrong, Rocco, is you are denying them the reward for their work. Basic human feels of fairness gives us the idea that if we put work to a product, we want a reward. This is where the whole "Pirating is stealing" mentality comes in.

 

Pirates are wrong-do'ers. You can't explain your way out of it, that's just how it is. I pirate occasionally and I already know what I'm doing is technically wrong. But there's no heaven or hell so there's no real consequence now is there?

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Speaking of CAD or software companies like Autodesk, for example, they are actually making their products FREE to download now. You can just put in your school name, make an account (even with fake details and pick a school you've never been to) and then they allow you to get all or most of their software for free - no trial, indefinetly. That's an example of one company that has adapted to the situation and, the way i see it, is acting smart

 

My argument to that would be that the majority of those who use their products won't make the leap into making a living out of it and will probably stop using that piece of software sooner or later. As Rocco said, since the software would have cost 4000$+ it's safe to say they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, hence no gain, no loss for Autodesk. Your argument that, regardless of whether or not they lose money, the mere fact that they've stolen something and deprived a person/entity of their intellectual rights wouldn't make alot of difference in this case because, as far as Autodesk is concerned, all they care about is the money. Everything else is secondary to it. If it brings them no loss/gains and hence does not affect them they could care less. More so, it's free publicity for them to have their product gain such widespread use.

 

Now let us take the other outcome - people pirate their software, they stick to it and end up making a living out of it. At that point they will be forced into buying a copy of the product(s), which results in a profit for Autodesk, profit which, i would like to add, may or may not have come otherwise to Autodesk, since the person who pirated the software in the first place might not have even dreamed of going into the bussiness if he had not been able to try it out first and see that he likes it. Now that would mean that Autodesk made a profit and, more so, secured a future customer, wouldn't it? What they are doing is effectively nurturing a class of people which will grow up with their products and end up making a profit for the company where there very well could have been none.

 

As far as i see it with CAD, animation, modeling, editing and such programs, as long as you're not making any profit with them they could be given for free. Ofcourse the problem there is that people would start lieing and say 'im not making any profit, get off my back' even when they ARE making profits.

 

Now you might say 'Well, he could have just gone to a school and had a legal copy there to practice his hobby, if he liked this type of stuff so much'. That's a valid argument, but i would say that alot of those who pirate it simply dont have the means to go to such a school, or maybe they don't know they want to before expriencing the product for themselves.

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

 

Then pirate it. The company doesn't exist anymore, so nobody is getting hurt.

 

But the vast, vast majority of pirating is done with games/music/movies/whatever from companies that still exist.

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So for those of you who are anti-piracy, what do you think about this situation: Someone wants to buy a 10 year old computer game, but the company that made it went out of business and the only way to buy it now is secondhand. Because the game is still popular, it's value has almost tripled from it's original cost. Is it "ok" to download (pirate?) the game, because the company wouldn't be getting your money anyway? Or should that person spend $80+ to buy the game from some random guy on the internet?

 

Regarding DRM: What do you think about activation only versus full-blown DRM? (for those of you who are anti-DRM)

 

Then pirate it. The company doesn't exist anymore, so nobody is getting hurt.

 

But the vast, vast majority of pirating is done with games/music/movies/whatever from companies that still exist.

One of the few times I'm pro-piracy is for products that are out of print, whether or not the company is still in business. Especially when the alternative is buying it secondhand, since you're going to pay through the nose for it to a third party and have no guarantee that it'll even work.

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I'm pretty sure that as long as products costs money, people will pirate them.

People will pirate things that cost no money what-so-ever. Recently an indie developer released the sales figures for his game, and even figured out how many copies were pirated. Even when people didn't have to pay a cent, they pirated it.

 

But if a consumer priates as a susbtitute for buying (which can often be the case with prgrams), the the company loses money. So you're not stealing the product, you're stealing money.

If I haven't bought your product within 2 months of pirating it, you can go [bleep] yourself if you think I'll ever pay what you ask for it. If I do pirate it, doesn't mean I won't buy it later as a "Thanks for an awesome product at a price I find reasonable, I hope you can continue to make such awesome things."

 

DRM is because of pirates. Freeloading scabs make legitimate user experiences horrible.

DRM is there to keep the shareholders happy, and, in the gaming industry, so that little Tommy will pester his mum to buy the game for him, since he isn't old enough to learn how to use cracks, hex editors or even edit configs or the hosts file.

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Considering just how conservative (soc and econ) the us is, this really isn't much of a surprise.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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One effective way is (surprisingly) anti-copy tools. For example, activating adobe software is a headache at best, whereas when activating a pirated version of Office 2010 you actually have to phone up microsoft.. If you improve your anti-piracy tools, people will still crack it (people will manage to crack anything), but it will be harder, such as when pirating adobe software you have to use a keygen or a bunch of keys on a program, then go and edit your hosts file and do a whole myriad of other stuff. Granted, it isn't really an option for smaller corporations, but a majority of the software produced by said corporations is low-user base, thus logically it's harder to pirate because less seeds and there may not even be a torrent available.

 

I also agree with whoever said ridiculous prices put people off buying software. There is not a way in hell that I'm buying Rosetta Stone for 500, neither would my parents. If it was perhaps 100, maybe I could convince my parents to get it for a school suppliment or whatever, but 500 is truly stupid. (That 500 figure is circa how much it would be, not completely accurate)

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I remembering hearing a pod-cast once. It was between the two owners of a company that sold a 3d software package worth thousands of dollars. They said that at one point they spent six months devising and implementing anti-piracy safeguards into their software (time which they themselves readily said could have instead been used to provide more useful updates for the product), only to have it cracked within the first week of release. After that, they decdided to not put as much effort into preventing their product from being pirated, and just focus on updates.

 

As i read on a pirate forum - the ones who actually crack the expensive software do it for the challenge.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

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I'm pretty sure that as long as products costs money, people will pirate them.

People will pirate things that cost no money what-so-ever. Recently an indie developer released the sales figures for his game, and even figured out how many copies were pirated. Even when people didn't have to pay a cent, they pirated it.

 

Not really piracy then, is it.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

How about you respond to my argument about intellectual property rights? I spend years programming something, and as soon as I license it to one person, it automagically entitles every punk with an internet connection to my work? No way.

 

When people that "can't afford it" pirate software, "can't buy right now" becomes "won't ever buy."

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Not really piracy then, is it.

It still is. You don't have to take someone else's for-profit software for it to be infringing their copyrights. If I made Program X and I hosted it on my site, and it was free as long as you had an account on my site, and then you instead grab it from bittorrent so that you don't have to create an account, that can still be seen as you pirating my software. If I did create Program X, I'd probably have an unobtrusive "Like this software? Donate!" option in the menu somewhere, since I neither want to force someone to pay for software, nor would I want to annoy them for it.

Steam | PM me for BBM PIN

 

Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013.

 

PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming!

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

How about you respond to my argument about intellectual property rights? I spend years programming something, and as soon as I license it to one person, it automagically entitles every punk with an internet connection to my work? No way.

 

When people that "can't afford it" pirate software, "can't buy right now" becomes "won't ever buy."

How about this. People respond to incentives (economically speaking here, seeing as we're talking about the demand for a good.) If the same good (or very similar substitute since I guess there are minor differences) is available at multiple prices, people are going to buy (or not in this case) at the lowest price available. That's market forces in action, you can't apply your morality and personal feelings to the market.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

How about you respond to my argument about intellectual property rights? I spend years programming something, and as soon as I license it to one person, it automagically entitles every punk with an internet connection to my work? No way.

 

When people that "can't afford it" pirate software, "can't buy right now" becomes "won't ever buy."

How about this. People respond to incentives (economically speaking here, seeing as we're talking about the demand for a good.) If the same good (or very similar substitute since I guess there are minor differences) is available at multiple prices, people are going to buy (or not in this case) at the lowest price available. That's market forces in action, you can't apply your morality and personal feelings to the market.

In the market, people would live this out by buying the cheapest thing, not stealing the more expensive thing.

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Saying that someone is acting like they're entitled is a moral judgement which doesn't actually counter the argument put forth by Rocco.

God forbid he ever tries to sell media he's created.

 

There you go again, actually respond to the argument please.

How about you respond to my argument about intellectual property rights? I spend years programming something, and as soon as I license it to one person, it automagically entitles every punk with an internet connection to my work? No way.

 

When people that "can't afford it" pirate software, "can't buy right now" becomes "won't ever buy."

How about this. People respond to incentives (economically speaking here, seeing as we're talking about the demand for a good.) If the same good (or very similar substitute since I guess there are minor differences) is available at multiple prices, people are going to buy (or not in this case) at the lowest price available. That's market forces in action, you can't apply your morality and personal feelings to the market.

In the market, people would live this out by buying the cheapest thing, not stealing the more expensive thing.

 

If there's only one thing there isn't a cheaper or more expensive alternative, isn't there?

 

So really how people should live this out would be not buying it at all or start saving up.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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