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Tip.It Times - 23rd October 2011


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31 replies to this topic

#1
tripsis
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

Read these rules before posting in this thread


When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

Enjoy the articles!

Remember, if you are interested in writing for the Tip.It Times you may submit a guest article or apply to write full time. Visit this thread for more information.
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#2
Hedgehog
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For the first time in a long time, I didn't know the dyk.

#3
Kimberly
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The quality of a community is not determined by how well people debate, but how well everyone meshes together in that community. So arguing well might help things mesh together, but it is not the end-all-be-all. Informative article, I suppose, but I would've rather seen a critique than a dry instructional list.

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#4
Fallstar
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Very interesting, especially the one with Peter. The one about techniques employed by people arguing over the internet was also very well written.

Asmodean <3


#5
Dudecrush8
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And of course the age old question: boxers or briefs?
Tripsis: I can answer that one :D Boxers!


You would know Tripsis... :P

We all appreciate your work very much Peter!

Get a job a Jagex, then we'll always have the best info! :XD:

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#6
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Really, Tripsis? Boxers or briefs? :rolleyes:
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#7
D. V. Devnull
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Just read the "Interview with Peter" a short time ago. Awesome read, especially the joke about Silverion's Closet. :lol:

As for Tripsis's answer about "Boxers or Briefs?", however, I must disagree. BRIEFS FTW! :P

~D. V. "Got me grinning... nice!" Devnull



(p.s.: Haven't read the other article yet. Don't know whether I'll post again if I do...)
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#8
Kaida23
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A very big thanks to Peter (and the rest of the admin team, of course) for all his hard work getting us back up and running again, and for taking the time our of his busy sleep schedule to answer our questions. :P It's amazing how much is going on behinds the scenes to keep things running smoothly.

As "God" once said in an episode of Futurama: "When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all."

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#9
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Boxer or briefs? Why not the best of both worlds?

Liked this week. Can't wait for next week. :)

#10
Crocefisso
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The quality of a community is not determined by how well people debate, but how well everyone meshes together in that community. So arguing well might help things mesh together, but it is not the end-all-be-all. Informative article, I suppose, but I would've rather seen a critique than a dry instructional list.

Thanks for the feedback, Kimberley. Clearly my attempt to structure the article, in order to achieve clarity, did not work. Out of interest, could you elaborate on how I could make it more of a critique?


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#11
Kimberly
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I actually thought you were going for an informative piece, and I was stating what I'd enjoy reading more. I can tell you put effort into it though, and I really don't have any critique to give on how to make such a piece better. I never really took debate classes, and to be truthful I learned things reading article #1. Your conclusion was what made me think I'd love to see a critique on the community of the site specifically, nothing more. :P

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#12
firebird308
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I felt like I was being lectured at in the first one and liked the second one.

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#13
Extragorey
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"The Internet and Arguments" was a very interesting read. I agree with most of it...

Regarding "proof", though, say someone makes a general claim like "This game is really popular, heaps of people play it", referring to a very obscure title from 1995 or so...
Well, it seems only logical they provide proof if they want you to believe it. It's not that hard to find a positive review if you try - and the person on the receiving end isn't going to because they couldn't care less.
So yeah, I think asking for proof in some scenarios is perfectly reasonable.

Also... One has to wonder... If all of those points make you a bad debater, what exactly does it take to be a really good debater? I shudder to think...
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#14
NukeMarine
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Not to be jerk (usually said by people about to be a jerk), but couldn't the first article have been summed up by linking to logical fallacies in wikipedia? Good article though. So, here are some other problems in "discussions" I see in RS forums:

-Something has ALWAYS been that way (impossible as the game itself is only 10 years old). Associated with arguing with tradition, but more like ignoring anything that happened prior to the person getting involved.
-X is against the law in real life, so it should not be allowed in RS. One, it ignores the very ideas of fantasy game, in addition it ignores that laws are not universal even in real life.
-I can get X in Y days. Annoying tactic that ignores actual time used during the day. In a way, it's presenting false evidence.
-No real Scotsman.... This is annoying in that they ignore your evidence by saying no real (pker, cw, pure, botter, etc) would actually do that. Kind of akin to moving the goal post.
-All or nothing. These zero sum arguments such as "Jagex can't get rid of all the bots, so they should allow all of them".
-Time is free. These guys don't associate effort and time put toward something as having an inherent cost involved. One example was saying guys were getting a dragon axe for free by doing all the beacons. Completely ignored the effort and time it would take just to have the levels for the chance to do that mini-game.

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#15
stonewall337
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The quality of a community is not determined by how well people debate, but how well everyone meshes together in that community. So arguing well might help things mesh together, but it is not the end-all-be-all. Informative article, I suppose, but I would've rather seen a critique than a dry instructional list.


A Kritik of what? As a rule, TIF users are more logical, but also more prone to use logical fallacies then other RS users in game or on the RSOF. Ye, the first article was boring. But I'm curious what type of K you'd have been interested in, as I might write one lol.

A kritik is, to overgeneralize, a challenging of the mindset/viewpoint of a stance before the proposed action can/should be taken, among other things. Example: I ran the "F-ing K" at my last debate when the Neg dropped the F bomb a few times. It basically says that the F bomb is the linguistic equivilant of a nuclear bomb, it degrades women by exalting the cultures "male dominated" view of sex, and the impact was something bad (I forgot exactly what the MPX and terminal impact was-I'm tired lol) that's a very general view of one type of K.

Perhaps a better example would be the "whiteness" K we use in debate. The team argues that the debate community is "white" (generally rich/privilaged/socially higher up, etc) and as such the resolution can not be enacted before this problem is addressed. As such, until the debate community is so "non-white" that the resolution does not require X to be used (In this case using the USFG as the actor) that Y bad things will occur/are occurring etc. I never use this K, so I'm not as familiar with it, and it has many layers and things which can be changed.

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#16
Guest_jrhairychest_
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Regarding "proof", though, say someone makes a general claim like "This game is really popular, heaps of people play it", referring to a very obscure title from 1995 or so...
Well, it seems only logical they provide proof if they want you to believe it. It's not that hard to find a positive review if you try - and the person on the receiving end isn't going to because they couldn't care less.
So yeah, I think asking for proof in some scenarios is perfectly reasonable.

Also... One has to wonder... If all of those points make you a bad debater, what exactly does it take to be a really good debater? I shudder to think...


I agree.

To be honest I found the "internet and Arguments" article a pretty heavy going read. Sorry Croc, It seems you're always trying to prove something with your writing skills. There's really no need to do this. It shouldn't really have got past the editorial panel.

#17
Crocefisso
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To be honest I found the "internet and Arguments" article a pretty heavy going read. Sorry Croc, It seems you're always trying to prove something with your writing skills. There's really no need to do this. It shouldn't really have got past the editorial panel.


I write articles on topics that interest me in a way I would want to read them. You are more than welcome to express an open dislike for them - you wouldn't be the first - but to combine it with silly assumptions is not a reasonable piece of feedback. The only thing I ever seek to 'prove' is whatever view I am trying to express.

Secondly, you are in no position to say what should/shouldn't have "got past" the editorial panel, especially seeing as you seem to object to it only on the basis of not liking it. Perhaps you'd care to apply if you'd like to have a say on EP policy?


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#18
Guest_jrhairychest_
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I write articles on topics that interest me in a way I would want to read them. You are more than welcome to express an open dislike for them - you wouldn't be the first - but to combine it with silly assumptions is not a reasonable piece of feedback. The only thing I ever seek to 'prove' is whatever view I am trying to express.

It's not a silly assumption, I'm certainly not the first poster to have commented on your writing style. The way you want your articles to be written isn't necessarily what everyone else agrees with i.e. the audience.

Secondly, you are in no position to say what should/shouldn't have "got past" the editorial panel, especially seeing as you seem to object to it only on the basis of not liking it. Perhaps you'd care to apply if you'd like to have a say on EP policy?

Actually you're wrong - I like the subject and I think it could be quite interesting and the subjects you've picked before are also interesting. I object to the way it was written which I am allowed to do. And yes - it shouldn't have got past the editorial panel. I'm in a position to say so as I'm part of your intended audience, which you are ignoring.

If a position comes up on the EP panel I'll consider it but I won't hold my breath in being successful.

#19
tripsis
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If a position comes up on the EP panel I'll consider it but I won't hold my breath in being successful.

Positions don't "come up." You can apply to be a full time writer at any time or submit a guest article at any time: http://forum.tip.it/...he-tipit-times/
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#20
Crocefisso
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It's not a silly assumption, I'm certainly not the first poster to have commented on your writing style. The way you want your articles to be written isn't necessarily what everyone else agrees with i.e. the audience.

Actually you're wrong - I like the subject and I think it could be quite interesting and the subjects you've picked before are also interesting. I object to the way it was written which I am allowed to do. And yes - it shouldn't have got past the editorial panel. I'm in a position to say so as I'm part of your intended audience, which you are ignoring.

If a position comes up on the EP panel I'll consider it but I won't hold my breath in being successful.


The silliness is your assumption that I am trying to prove something by writing in a way that I enjoy. As for what the audience wants: I wouldn't be on the EP if I had to write what they want to see, because it's often not what I want to write about.

I retain that you, as a forum member with no other position, are in no position to evaluate what the EP should publish. The audience's tastes are too broad to be able to satisfy everybody, and I am afraid more seem to have enjoyed the article judging from feedback. The fact you didn't like the writing stye means nothing to what the EP will or will not publish.


"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

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