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Jehosaphat

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dem asians be up to dem commie plots again

 

>dungeonal style

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

Former moderator of the original Dungeoneering

Former moderator of Ye Olde Hegemony

Moderator of the remake of Dungeoneering

Former Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)

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The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile.

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Blah, I would play. My schedual is relatively light, so if people join the game then we can adjust around me.

 

 

I would recommend you run seperate 'RnD' session, instead of combining them all into one...Purely because it is innevitable for people to argue for hours, which kills gameplay.

 

I would also recommend that:

Research works by either doing a puzzle (if I can come up with one), waiting an amount of time, or by explaining how the technology works without breaking physics/biology.

Instead of 'waiting an amount of time', that players should earn XP (Average of 150 per session) which they can then spend on acquiring tech (Which costs 100 for relatively common things, 200 for less common things and 300 for the reasonably rare things) (With the turbocharged shark death laser cannon as not acquirable through the usual channels)

 

I would also recommend adopting a weapon damage system (And by inference an armour/HP system). Potentially a d10+X system, which 0/10 as a critical hit, rolling on a seperate table, such as:

[hide]

ENERGY CRITICAL EFFECTS - HEAD

Critical Damage Effect

1 A grazing blow to the head frazzles the targets senses, imposing a -10 penalty to all Tests (except

Toughness) for 1 Round.

2 The blast of energy dazzles the target, leaving him blinded for 1 Round.

3 The attack cooks off the targets ear, leaving him Stunned for 1 Round and inflicting 1 level of Fatigue.

4 The energy attack burns away all of the hairs on the targets head as well as leaving him reeling from the

injury. The attack deals 2 levels of Fatigue and the target is blinded for 1d5 Rounds.

5 A blast of energy envelopes the targets head, burning his face and hair, and causing him to scream like a

stuck Grox. In addition to losing his hair, he is blinded for 1d10 Rounds and takes 3 levels of Fatigue.

6 The attack cooks the targets face, melting his features and damaging his eyes. The target is blinded for

the next 1d10 hours and permanently reduces his Fellowship characteristic by 1d10 points. The target

also takes 1d5 levels of Fatigue.

7 In a gruesome display, the flesh is burned from the targets head, exposing charred bone and muscle

underneath. The target is blinded permanently and takes 1d10 levels of Fatigue. Also, roll 1d10. This

is the targets new Fellowship, unless his Fellowship is already 10 or less, in which case nobody really

notices the difference.

8 The targets head is destroyed in a convocation of fiery death. He does not survive.

9 Superheated by the attack, the targets brain explodes, tearing apart his skull and sending flaming chunks

of meat flying at those nearby. The target is no more.

10+ As above, except the targets entire body catches fire and runs off headless 2d10 metres in a random

direction. Anything flammable it passes, including characters, must make an Agility Test or catch fire.

[/hide]

Adjusted for whatever system design you prefer.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Don't worry, combat would be the least of my troubles.

 

Also I like that system, except perhaps it could be modified to calling it tech points and making it a reward for retrieving data, completing missions and making it generate through using research stations and having research software running rather than making a general reward.

 

That way it would encourage hacking and covert ops missions on enemy ships rather than "CIU, blow them out of the sky."

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Really...If we are gonna have hacking and what not then I would want some actual stats to work with.

For example, lets say that I come across a Chinese Laptop Equivilant. If it is a simple D20 (or some such) roll then I might as well just roll to hack all of the laptops I come across and, by inference, if I am ever bored, search for laptops.

If, conversely, I come across a Chinese Laptop which is encrypted (Hard -20, and rolled on a d100), and requires a tech-use/common computer knowledge/hacking/whatever roll, which is based on my Intelligence, which happens to be 56. I then know that there is a 36 in 100 chance of hacking the laptop on my first attempt.

As such, I pick up the laptop (having rolled Security/Perception/ect to make sure it isn't on a pressure plate, ect) and take it back to my lab, which has a fairly powerful computer that gives me a +20 bonus. Ergo I now have a 56 in 100 chance of hacking the laptop.

 

If we instituted a system like that, with subsequent checks and balances (for example, if I had killed a Chinese Scientist, who had an unlocked PDA, who had stored his Password on the PDA, then I could use said PDA with a Tech-use roll of +10 (Routine) and thus 63 out of 100 chance of success.) then the game wouldn't be so arbitrary and thus would develop momentum.

 

Furthermore, if we could become better at individual skills, Tech-Use for example, then we could level up our characters, thus we become better.

If said individual skills were tied to invididual XP costs (Perhaps varing with class) then I believe that the game would really develop a momentum of its own, as we characters could plan how we were going to develop with needing to 'go into the forest and grind'.

Further, if some skills were bound to certain classes (For instance it is concievable that an Engineer would come into contact with people who could train them in Tech Use earlier than those who were Tactically inclined), then it would allow for diversity...indeed it would force some level of group reliance.

 

I would be against the use of 'running research software' since, as Ross would point out, it encourages people to turn with a pizza and not play.

I would also recommend that people gained XP as a group. So instead of people racing ahead, or falling behind, everyone moves together.

 

Finally I would suggest that XP be given for successfully completing sub-tasks of the mission (If you ever played Alpha Protocol I would suggest sub-tasks like that, where it is a mission within itself, designed to obtain more information). But also for planning, ergo, people are given an incentive to plan missions (collect data, ask questions, ect) as opposed to rushing in and completing a mission in five minutes flat.

For instance, if, in a given session, you had a specific mission planned, and when that mission was over the session ended, then, logically, people can't gain more XP by finishing one mission and going onto the next one. They can, however, gain more XP by Successfully completing the mission, ergo, if they collect information about the mission they can gain more XP than if they didn't.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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I'm gonna let it be a skill, but please cease suggesting a DnD-like system, I detest the needless complexity, and right now my eyes are so tired that reading such walls of texts just results in me seeing a solid, bluish-gray blur.

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Tisn't a DnD system...the DnD system is broken beyond belief and I have no interest in following it.

 

What I am advocating is the Dark Heresy system, which is pretty straightforwards (and very very well balanced).

 

You have 9 stats and 4 levels of skill (3 in some cases):

First level is Basic, which allows you to roll at half whatever the statistic for that skill is.

Second is trained, which allows you to roll at the statistic.

Third is skilled, which is +10 to the statistic

Forth is talented, which is +20.

 

Some skills, like Demolition, are 'Advanced' skills, so can't be used at the basic level, but are otherwise the same.

 

 

Though if your plan is to adopt an arbitrary system (And I understand that you haven't read all the text, so I won't rehash or lecture you) then the game will fizzle out because almost no one will be 'singing from the same song sheet', as continually happens with my games, and will happen a lot more with your games because your opinions are fundermentally different from other peoples (at least in regards to myself, Earth and Nex, for instance).

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Any RPG that requires you or the GM to keep track of numbers is DnD to me. Tabletop RPGs are boring and tedious, hence I will never use anything from them.

 

I will probably use a simple but effective system like minimum roll = base minimum roll - skill level*2. That way if the computer has a base minimum roll of 50, a lvl 0 will have to roll a 50, but a lvl 20 will only have to roll a 10. It allows for a very progressive leveling system, where some things can be impossible for low levels and where some things are impossible to fail for high levels.

 

Also of course you won't be able to go grind enemy computers, there may be a few individual computers, but primarily they'll just be terminals hooked up to the main server, thus sharing the same database.

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I would play a game of Dark Heresy, under your moderation. In an instant.

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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I don't think there are a number of modifers....There is one modifer, which is arbitrarily generated by the GM based on how hard they think something is to do.

 

I would suggest you read my long post in the morning/when you are rested.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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If, conversely, I come across a Chinese Laptop which is encrypted (Hard -20, and rolled on a d100), and requires a tech-use/common computer knowledge/hacking/whatever roll, which is based on my Intelligence, which happens to be 56. I then know that there is a 36 in 100 chance of hacking the laptop on my first attempt.

As such, I pick up the laptop (having rolled Security/Perception/ect to make sure it isn't on a pressure plate, ect) and take it back to my lab, which has a fairly powerful computer that gives me a +20 bonus. Ergo I now have a 56 in 100 chance of hacking the laptop.

^ Needlessly complicated.

 

I count 4 modifiers, 1 rule and 1 unnecessary roll.

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Under your system you would do what?

 

If, conversely, I come across a Chinese Laptop which is encrypted (roll of 50-2). I then know that there is a 2 in 50 chance of hacking the laptop on my first attempt.

As such, I ignore the laptop/throw it on the heap to decrypt when I am a higher level/hack it because I have no reason not to.

There is no real reason to do anything beyond the most excessively simple thing...I can't do anything with the laptop except hack it or leave it alone.

 

As such I have no incentive to buy a better computer, or to invest in becoming better at hacking computers because I can just shoot everyone, then hopefully use one of the terminals to hack into the database. If I can't then oh well, its not like I can do very much with the extra Tech Points except become more able to acquire them.

Ergo I can either become better at grinding or better at shooting stuff.

 

Your 'simple' system is only simple because it eliminates any roleplaying aspect.

 

As to the pressure plate and the 'unneccessary' roll...Thats call paranoia...Players should be able to check stuff out rather than 'You walk into a room and see a computer on a pressure plate'

(added to that Security encompasses disabling the pressure plate, if one exists, so its not 'unnecessary')

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Think of it this way, Mather.

 

You use an established, acclaimed game system. We're all fascinated, and decide 'what the hell, let's give him a chance, maybe he can make it something great.'

 

Or

 

You make your own piddly, oversimplified system. We're all apathetic, and decide 'sigh, we've played unstructured games twenty times to death, but maybe I'll play it if my gaming computer breaks that day...'

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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I'd be interested in the game in any form. Unless of course it is too complicated and in that case I probably won't be interested.

This, this is why I say [bleep] that. If you have too many variables, you might as well try to memorize a math book then solve it in your head for entertainment.

 

 

And adding more than a single modifier to any task is not roleplaying, it's deviating from reality. And in fact when it comes to hacking, only your skill and the difficulty matters, if you use equipment, it doesn't make you perform better at hacking, it hacks for you.

 

Or if it comes to surgery or shooting, you can take adrenaline to help keep you from shaking and keeping you alert, that's a single modifier, but you can't stack that with for example caffeine.

If you were to use a better gun or better equipment here, that wouldn't be a modifier, the task as a whole would just be easier, meaning the minimum roll would lower, not your roll increase.

 

Then there's augmentations, such as bionic lungs to keep your breath inaudible, that wouldn't act as a modifier to stealth, it would just add some levels to your skill and stop you from revealing yourself if you do something that would make you gasp.

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I'd be interested in the game in any form. Unless of course it is too complicated and in that case I probably won't be interested.

This, this is why I say [bleep] that. If you have too many variables, you might as well try to memorize a math book then solve it in your head for entertainment.

 

 

And adding more than a single modifier to any task is not roleplaying, it's deviating from reality. And in fact when it comes to hacking, only your skill and the difficulty matters, if you use equipment, it doesn't make you perform better at hacking, it hacks for you.

 

Or if it comes to surgery or shooting, you can take adrenaline to help keep you from shaking and keeping you alert, that's a single modifier, but you can't stack that with for example caffeine.

If you were to use a better gun or better equipment here, that wouldn't be a modifier, the task as a whole would just be easier, meaning the minimum roll would lower, not your roll increase.

 

Then there's augmentations, such as bionic lungs to keep your breath inaudible, that wouldn't act as a modifier to stealth, it would just add some levels to your skill and stop you from revealing yourself if you do something that would make you gasp.

Ummm... You do realise that better equipment making tasks easier is just a fancy way of saying you are adding another modifier; For example if having a crowbar makes prying a window open easier by 10 (arbitrary number) you can just as easily say that the crowbar adds 10 to your attempt (assuming you are aiming to get atleast a minimum value)

Also I really am not a fan of your 'anything that you can explain how to do that doesn't violate the laws of physics or biology is possible' rule, what with the ease at which you can make things seem to work which don't; for example using 'obviously true' physics (as you tried making the same arguement previously) I can build a device that can give a lethal shock using a small handfull of materials that can be found in any highschool physics classroom and if I had a few choice parts I could build a device that can power every electrical device on earth using a single lemon (both ideas would work according to commonly accepted formulas by overlooking the fact that they do not properly account for all the variables)

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And adding more than a single modifier to any task is not roleplaying, it's deviating from reality. And in fact when it comes to hacking, only your skill and the difficulty matters, if you use equipment, it doesn't make you perform better at hacking, it hacks for you.

I have somewhat of a problem here...

Lets say I have picked up a computer that needs hacking...now, I can get a pencil and paper (or just use my memory) and bruteforce my way into the computer...it will take several years but still...

Alternatively I can connect a computer to another computer, which bruteforces its way into the first computer. However connecting said computer to the other computer is a task in and of itself.

Added to that the computers are not inherantly compatible, or may use a strange cable which only someone who was especially skilled would think to use/own.

 

I suppose, if I was more skilled, I could break into the computer programming and recover the password/just force it to boot without a password.

Though if I had a reasonably advanced computer program I could break into another computer program and recover the password/force it to boot without a password with a far lower skill than the former.

Of course the second case still requires that I have some degree of technical awareness because the computer doesn't run itself...It needs me to point it at the file/computer I want broken...It also requires me to know the fundermentals of how to get the program to work.

This is, of course, assuming it is not a self-aware computer program, or one of the TV computer programs...Or a computer program that is actually being remote controlled...All of which supposes that other stuff besides what I want are going on.

 

You can say that multiple modifers aren't neccessary...And maybe they aren't, maybe they are...Thats not the point. The point is that using modifers is a roleplaying aid which allows people to play a game without playing their real self by virtue of being unable to do anything else.

 

Or if it comes to surgery or shooting, you can take adrenaline to help keep you from shaking and keeping you alert, that's a single modifier, but you can't stack that with for example caffeine.

Thats actually untrue.

Coffee stimulates the production of Adrenaline, and injecting Adrenaline produces more Adrenaline.

Ergo Adrenaline + Adrenaline = 2 Adrenaline (Which may not double your alertness because of the inherant limits of humanity, but coffee, and its associated effects, last longer than Adrenaline does)

 

If you were to use a better gun or better equipment here, that wouldn't be a modifier, the task as a whole would just be easier, meaning the minimum roll would lower, not your roll increase.

Sophism.

+20 to your roll = -20 from the required roll.

 

Then there's augmentations, such as bionic lungs to keep your breath inaudible, that wouldn't act as a modifier to stealth, it would just add some levels to your skill and stop you from revealing yourself if you do something that would make you gasp.

So instead of increasing your stealth, it increases your stealth?

I mean suppose we were talking about shoes of sneaking, which, under yourself system increases your stealth skill by an arbitrary number. Someone then takes off the shoes of sneaking, and their stealth skill goes down? Stays the same? Surely this just means you have to remember a different random number...

Or, to use your example, a person decides to get a bionic lung, and then decides to get a third lung because they can...All of which just means you have a random number that you don't have recorded coming into play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ultimately, I guess, it is your game.

I would highly recommend not letting myself, Nex, Retech, Wyvern, Earth or Ross play, as we would almost assuredly mess up your game...Since we apparently think in entirely different ways to you.

So you just need to get Stork, Alg and Lei to play and your set.

And Hex, obviously.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Ultimately it comes down to how much arbitrariness that you're willing to show. Either way is pretty arbitrary, but it's more about the presentation that you're putting out.

 

The reason that Archi has made arbitrary games work is because he has run several games before, and he was benefit of the doubt. So :thumbup:

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

Former moderator of the original Dungeoneering

Former moderator of Ye Olde Hegemony

Moderator of the remake of Dungeoneering

Former Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)

Former President of the United States (Hegemony)

Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)

Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony

 

 

The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile.

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Well SOMEONE here needs to run Dark Heresy.

 

I've already got my character rolled up.

10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need
10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc
10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes?

 

Remember, Remember, the 4th of November

RIP Dawngate ;-;

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Think of it this way, Mather.

 

You use an established, acclaimed game system. We're all fascinated, and decide 'what the hell, let's give him a chance, maybe he can make it something great.'

 

Or

 

You make your own piddly, oversimplified system. We're all apathetic, and decide 'sigh, we've played unstructured games twenty times to death, but maybe I'll play it if my gaming computer breaks that day...'

 

Basically, Mather has an idea for a game and you're telling him to run your game idea because it'll be better. Thats like me selling hand-knitted gloves and then somebody telling me I should sell Gucci gloves because they're better.

qTLQRuS.png

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Think of it this way, Mather.

 

You use an established, acclaimed game system. We're all fascinated, and decide 'what the hell, let's give him a chance, maybe he can make it something great.'

 

Or

 

You make your own piddly, oversimplified system. We're all apathetic, and decide 'sigh, we've played unstructured games twenty times to death, but maybe I'll play it if my gaming computer breaks that day...'

 

Basically, Mather has an idea for a game and you're telling him to run your game idea because it'll be better. Thats like me selling hand-knitted gloves and then somebody telling me I should sell Gucci gloves because they're better.

 

[hide]

gg1612d.jpg

[/hide]

Pictured: Style and sophistication

 

[hide]

merino_wool_cashmere_gloves.JPG

[/hide]

Pictured: Not style and not sophistication.

 

 

I rest my case.

 

 

But in all seriousness I'm apathetic on both outcomes, and will probably play if he actually runs it either way. Now it really all depends if I decide to play another session afterwards.

It's a REALLY big shaft.

I didn't catch fire, I used the can of hairspray as a flamethrower and pointed it at my arm.

how are you going to ignore my posts when I'm offering to let you live as my vassal in two weeks time?

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Basically, Mather has an idea for a game and you're telling him to run your game idea because it'll be better. Thats like me selling hand-knitted gloves and then somebody telling me I should sell Gucci gloves because they're better.

 

More accurately:

Supply and Demand.

 

Mather wants to Supply game X

We Demand game Y

 

Either X needs to turn into Y or Y needs to turn into X....or nothing happens. (Or compromise)

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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  • 3 weeks later...

If people are interested I am thinking of running a test game of In Spaaace! when I am on spring break next week using IRC.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with In Spaaace!, it runs using the Token effort system which to put it simply the GM and all the players have tokens that they wager in order to decide the outcomes of events with the loser getting one of the other's tokens, with atmost a single modifier being applied to your wager, and additionally the players may attempt to retcon things on a successful wager plus an additional token fee. If you do want to play I do very much insist that you read all the rules of the Token effort system, as being only 6 pages long and free there is no reason for you not to: Greg Stolze - In Spaaace! (the free download link is under the question "Where can I buy this game?", and you only actually need to read pages 8-13 of the PDF, ignore the first 7 pages as I dont think I will even end up using any of that information)

 

If I do end up running this I am thinking of having the players be either a Space Parcel delivery service or Space chartered travel service, though I am open to suggestions.

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If people are interested I am thinking of running a test game of In Spaaace! when I am on spring break next week using IRC.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with In Spaaace!, it runs using the Token effort system which to put it simply the GM and all the players have tokens that they wager in order to decide the outcomes of events with the loser getting one of the other's tokens, with atmost a single modifier being applied to your wager, and additionally the players may attempt to retcon things on a successful wager plus an additional token fee. If you do want to play I do very much insist that you read all the rules of the Token effort system, as being only 6 pages long and free there is no reason for you not to: Greg Stolze - In Spaaace! (the free download link is under the question "Where can I buy this game?", and you only actually need to read pages 8-13 of the PDF, ignore the first 7 pages as I dont think I will even end up using any of that information)

 

If I do end up running this I am thinking of having the players be either a Space Parcel delivery service or Space chartered travel service, though I am open to suggestions.

I nominate we call out company/thing

 

 

But yeah, 100% behind this plan.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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