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Carl

15-Nov-2011 - Breaking Dicing

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As predicted, a black market has spawned.

 

This'll be more risky for the consumer - it's easier to hide an elaborate algorithm that'll side with a specific person (in this case, DragonDyce) in an irc bot than it would be for an ingame dice. In other words, the odds could be highly stacked against a player in an act of desperation without the consumer actually knowing. It'll be harder to prove scamming too - timestamps don't exist on RuneScape's chat box.

 

Let's see how JaGex deals with this.

 

Why would Jagex deal with it? They arent out to stop gambling because of things like fairness or morals they are doing it because they cant support it otherwise they can face legal issues.

 

That said why do they care if players get scammed who go out and play on black markets? The answer is they dont, all they will do is continue to patch gambling methods in game and tell players not to gamble runescape money outside the game.

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I apologize for the poor implication - I'm not intending to suggest that JaGex ought to intervene in the alleged 'problem' - they've simply asserted that they would. I'm not advocating JaGex in this sense.

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Yeah I know what they said however I stated their reasons for saying they would pursue the problem because of legal issues not fairness issues.

 

With that in mind Im sure that Jagex the least amount of work necessary to accomplish this.

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Which laws does the very act of dicing (in itself, without the association of RWT), or hosting dices violate?

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I'm not sure, but Pokemon (GameFreak) was sued for their GBA game casinos years back. It's why the later versions don't have casinos anymore.


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"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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You're right in that subsequent versions haven't featured casinos, however it was only in Europe that these measures were taken, probably in response to tighter legislation from the EU on gambling. It wasn't the GBA games either, it was between Pokemon Diamond/Pearl, which featured slot machines, and Pokemon Platinum which did not.

 

Then again, Jagex are obviously a European-based company. But as said, I'm not even sure GameFreak were actually sued.

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Could DragonDyce's new irc dicing be considered RWT in itsself? It's taking gambling outside of RS (in this case, and irc channel) and giving RS profits.

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Could DragonDyce's new irc dicing be considered RWT in itsself? It's taking gambling outside of RS (in this case, and irc channel) and giving RS profits.

 

'Trading' by definition involves receiving a good/service in exchange for a good/service. It is uncertain whether the act of rolling a dice outside of RS premises would be considered a 'service' - and thus by technicality it may or may not be considered RWTing.

 

Personally I'd side with no though, since there's no obvious benefit to the act of initiating a dicing game - it only acts as a medium for ingame transactions.

 

I'm having a little trouble explaining this concept, I apologize in advance for any confusion.

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The difference is the scale. Dicing was everywhere which gained it new hosts and players constantly. Although I'm not sure on the scale of new methods, making it move to a 'black market' massively damages the number of players and therefore money which can be gambled and possibly scammed. It may still be present, but not at the size it once was.


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I don't understand why JaGex didn't choose to address the problem of the scamming, but instead, choose to intervene on the act of dicing itself.

 

Is it not feasible for JaGex to address scamming whilst allowing free trade?

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Unfortunately, as long as there is free trade, there will be scamming. Even with trade limits there was still scamming. They've made excellent changes to the trade interface over the years to try and lessen it, I don't see how they could get rid of it completely.


 

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You're right in that subsequent versions haven't featured casinos, however it was only in Europe that these measures were taken, probably in response to tighter legislation from the EU on gambling. It wasn't the GBA games either, it was between Pokemon Diamond/Pearl, which featured slot machines, and Pokemon Platinum which did not.

 

Then again, Jagex are obviously a European-based company. But as said, I'm not even sure GameFreak were actually sued.

 

And it was totally necessary and worth all the time and effort of going on with it. :rolleyes:


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Which laws does the very act of dicing (in itself, without the association of RWT), or hosting dices violate?

 

You'd have to look up the laws in various countries, but some countries where Runescape is available likely are among those with strict laws.

 

Nexon and NCsoft (and a bunch of other companies) are being investigated in South Korea as to whether or not their games that feature "jackpot items" (these are cash shop items that you pay real money and receive a random jackpot item, with rarer items having low odds) count as gambling, and thus are subject to fines and potentially be charged with obstructing a government investigation. Not relevant to Jagex's position, but an idea as to how strict some countries are.


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Which laws does the very act of dicing (in itself, without the association of RWT), or hosting dices violate?

 

You'd have to look up the laws in various countries, but some countries where Runescape is available likely are among those with strict laws.

 

Nexon and NCsoft (and a bunch of other companies) are being investigated in South Korea as to whether or not their games that feature "jackpot items" (these are cash shop items that you pay real money and receive a random jackpot item, with rarer items having low odds) count as gambling, and thus are subject to fines and potentially be charged with obstructing a government investigation. Not relevant to Jagex's position, but an idea as to how strict some countries are.

 

That's understandable as they are taking money directly from these people. What's the problem with gambling for pixel items/pokemon with pixel money? Oh wait, NONE!


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Which laws does the very act of dicing (in itself, without the association of RWT), or hosting dices violate?

 

You'd have to look up the laws in various countries, but some countries where Runescape is available likely are among those with strict laws.

 

Nexon and NCsoft (and a bunch of other companies) are being investigated in South Korea as to whether or not their games that feature "jackpot items" (these are cash shop items that you pay real money and receive a random jackpot item, with rarer items having low odds) count as gambling, and thus are subject to fines and potentially be charged with obstructing a government investigation. Not relevant to Jagex's position, but an idea as to how strict some countries are.

 

That's understandable as they are taking money directly from these people. What's the problem with gambling for pixel items/pokemon with pixel money? Oh wait, NONE!

 

There are countries that have laws against it, though, even if it is with 100% virtual currency. This is all speculation, of course, assuming that laws are the reason Jagex changed foot in the first place. I'm willing to bet it had more to do with Jagex not wanting an item to be used directly for gambling. It's the NIMBY approach. "It's okay if this exists, just Not In My Backyard."


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Which laws does the very act of dicing (in itself, without the association of RWT), or hosting dices violate?

 

You'd have to look up the laws in various countries, but some countries where Runescape is available likely are among those with strict laws.

 

Nexon and NCsoft (and a bunch of other companies) are being investigated in South Korea as to whether or not their games that feature "jackpot items" (these are cash shop items that you pay real money and receive a random jackpot item, with rarer items having low odds) count as gambling, and thus are subject to fines and potentially be charged with obstructing a government investigation. Not relevant to Jagex's position, but an idea as to how strict some countries are.

 

That's understandable as they are taking money directly from these people. What's the problem with gambling for pixel items/pokemon with pixel money? Oh wait, NONE!

 

There are countries that have laws against it, though, even if it is with 100% virtual currency. This is all speculation, of course, assuming that laws are the reason Jagex changed foot in the first place. I'm willing to bet it had more to do with Jagex not wanting an item to be used directly for gambling. It's the NIMBY approach. "It's okay if this exists, just Not In My Backyard."

 

I understand the legal aspects. I was deriding the moral aspect of it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Oh well. I'm gonna have some pizza. <3:


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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so glad dicing is gone!

 

Me too, but more about the jerks autotyping/spamming their dice games at the GE.


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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I understand the legal aspects. I was deriding the moral aspect of it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Oh well. I'm gonna have some pizza. <3:

 

I agree that morally there's nothing wrong with it. Even if it was just a cover, I agree with Jagex that it was getting ridiculously out of control with the sheer amount of people who were turning to dicing because it was more profitable than actually playing the game. The scams are second nature, it's the usual system of trust trades and the fact that online casino style systems are shady enough as it is.


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I understand the legal aspects. I was deriding the moral aspect of it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Oh well. I'm gonna have some pizza. <3:

 

I agree that morally there's nothing wrong with it. Even if it was just a cover, I agree with Jagex that it was getting ridiculously out of control with the sheer amount of people who were turning to dicing because it was more profitable than actually playing the game. The scams are second nature, it's the usual system of trust trades and the fact that online casino style systems are shady enough as it is.

 

Good point. I didn't have any pizza. Bring me some fish & chips. :thumbsup:


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Why don't they add Poker tables or Pool halls to Runescape and let players play poker and pool? Or just simply let players stake each other in Burthorpe Games Room like they can do at the duel arena.

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Like mentioned, there are legal aspects to this. If you look at Pokemon, the UK versions of the later GB games don't include the casino's anymore due to people sueing/complaining them and relating them with real life laws.

 

RuneScape, being a worldwide MMO, cannot do this.


zuzmo.png

collio.png

[hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide][hide]

Never gonna give you up.[/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide][/hide]

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Like mentioned, there are legal aspects to this. If you look at Pokemon, the UK versions of the later GB games don't include the casino's anymore due to people sueing/complaining them and relating them with real life laws.

 

RuneScape, being a worldwide MMO, cannot do this.

There are lots of online games were players can play poker and pool. Even Fun Orb as a pool game. It's not like they are playing for real money.

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Like mentioned, there are legal aspects to this. If you look at Pokemon, the UK versions of the later GB games don't include the casino's anymore due to people sueing/complaining them and relating them with real life laws.

 

RuneScape, being a worldwide MMO, cannot do this.

There are lots of online games were players can play poker and pool. Even Fun Orb as a pool game. It's not like they are playing for real money.

Well, that's not true, many players rwt for gp to dice with.

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Like mentioned, there are legal aspects to this. If you look at Pokemon, the UK versions of the later GB games don't include the casino's anymore due to people sueing/complaining them and relating them with real life laws.

 

RuneScape, being a worldwide MMO, cannot do this.

There are lots of online games were players can play poker and pool. Even Fun Orb as a pool game. It's not like they are playing for real money.

Well, that's not true, many players rwt for gp to dice with.

 

But that is what they do and Jagex shouldn't be responsible for it. You can't control what people people.


Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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