15-Nov-2011 - Coming Next Week: New Website!

[Guest TrixStar]

Pony up the monthly fee and get over it

[NukeMarine]

Ok, I'll bite. Jagex said "This is for a number of reasons, but the main one is to keep them fresh." Now, I understand the the desire to keep things fresh, but that's easy enough by requiring either membership or at least logging in once a month.

 

So, first question: What do they mean by "members only" feature? Can these scores only be viewed by members (possible) or is it that only members scores will be visible to all?

 

Second question: Can we still look at individual scores of f2p? If the claim it's only about rankings, then seeing their unranked scores of members or f2p should not hurt.

 

Third question: What are these number of other reasons. Can any of you offer legitimate reasons to back up this decision?

 

As I mentioned in the dicing thread, I value honest explanations behind an unpopular decision over shady explanations behind popular ones.

[Formerly_Deathknell]

There are many other options that are a lot more popular to achieve their stated goals and they require only marginally more work to implement. <_<

[Lose No Hope]

I'm extremely disappointed in the highscores update...

[Jehosaphat]

To summarize my thoughts and prevent a long-winded wall of text:

Aw, what the hell, Jagex. I mean, I know that there are a ton of idle people/old bots on the hiscores, but that's no reason to hide people who just don't have a subscription.

[Sir_Squab]

Just be thankful that they didn't remove f2p completely.

 

F2p'ers should consider themselves lucky they had highscores for this long. Non paying customers have no weight in their opinions or do they have the right to complain. Especially the people who have f2p 99's they've gotten hundreds of hours of FREE entertainment should really be ashamed, with membership having about 10x new ways to pay then you could with the launch of RS2, those people who grind out 99's f2p have no excuse. It would be entirely different if runescape was a micro-transaction game, in which case the game was funded by small purchases of cosmetic/vanity items etc, but it isnt.

 

I wouldn't put it past jagex to removed f2p and just limit all non paying accounts to a 10/20/30 hour limit before having to subscribe or something along those lines to increase the % of f2pers that become subscribers. Because in the eyes of jagex all f2p is giving potential customers/players a way to try a portion of the game before they commit.

 

TLDR F2P is a glorified demo, stop [bleep]ing.

 

Because most members start off as F2P players? Honestly, a one-off fee for the highscores or a limited amount of months on F2P seems more reasonable then this. (For the record, I still think those are bad ideas, just not AS bad.)

 

In terms of the RSOW thing, considering the general accuracy of most wikis, the accuracy of RS wiki, and the accuracy of the RSKB, I think I can fairly say I expect this to improve the quality of information available on the RS site.

 

As for the highscores thing, I honestly think that if there was a PURELY P2P POLL on whether or not F2P should have highscores, I think F2P having highscores would win, especially if the overall reaction on this thread is any example. Plus, given the loss of potential future members due to the highscores, and the fact that I really, really have trouble imagining people actually becoming members for highscores, makes me think that this move could overall have them lose money.

 

Honestly, inactivity filter, F2P/P2P filter, some combination of the two... on a related note, we should be able to look up the stats of every player (combat for PVP scenarios, but other skills for possibly DG, SC or simply clan reqs.)

 

Honestly, Jagex should just do an effing P2P poll on this, realize that most members are supportive of P2P having highscores, and just put in a F2P/P2P and inactivity/activity filter. And a way to see the stats of any players would be nice as well.

[ixfd64]

Does this mean that one has to be a member in order to view the hiscores, or does it mean that current non-members will not show up? Or could it be both?

[eee]

Does anyone know if the lite highscores will still work for f2p?

[Central_Keeper]

Pony up the monthly fee and get over it

I can assure you that most of us f2p have enough fee to kept us going until we die, but we choose to stay f2p because we see it as different challenges. I thought it was a success that Jagex could get rid of bot and dice game for good but taking away an existing feature for f2p to increase potential membership sale is.sad. there are better way to make money, but def not this way. I am thankful for.Jagex. (the one Andrew intended) to make this game, but the new Jagex seems to care about the money than community. To make a game that's so community based is not to alienate them, but also embrace some aspect even for some small lost in revenue but gain lots on the future.

[Central_Keeper]

We should have a referendum to see if player agree to remove f2p from highscore since they said.they wish player to compete with each other, hence its a.community based feature. So its not just a Jagex.money making scheme

[Erewhon2]

I do not understand what the problem is with Jagex removing the F2P highscores. F2P still have a great free game, Jagex haven't taken that away. I have an F2P account and a P2P one, I enjoy playing both, but I am fully aware of the limitations on F2P and yes it provides different challenges and that's the joy of it as well as being totally free! If I want more I play on my P2P account and pay my subscription.

 

It's a bit like being given a fantastic new set of clothes to go out in for free then complaining they don't have enough pockets or they're not a fashion brand, or protesting if they take away the shirt....it's still free! There is an english expression: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" (to count its teeth), in this instance because it might bite you. :roll:

[Central_Keeper]

Just be thankful that they didn't remove f2p completely.

 

F2p'ers should consider themselves lucky they had highscores for this long. Non paying customers have no weight in their opinions or do they have the right to complain. Especially the people who have f2p 99's they've gotten hundreds of hours of FREE entertainment should really be ashamed, with membership having about 10x new ways to pay then you could with the launch of RS2, those people who grind out 99's f2p have no excuse. It would be entirely different if runescape was a micro-transaction game, in which case the game was funded by small purchases of cosmetic/vanity items etc, but it isnt.

 

I wouldn't put it past jagex to removed f2p and just limit all non paying accounts to a 10/20/30 hour limit before having to subscribe or something along those lines to increase the % of f2pers that become subscribers. Because in the eyes of jagex all f2p is giving potential customers/players a way to try a portion of the game before they commit.

 

TLDR F2P is a glorified demo, stop [bleep]ing.

Level 99 in f2p is not ashamed, we have to train slower method and put up with ad, which I click sometimes imo is my way of saying thanks to jagex. 30 hour of RS in f2p world and cap off after that, wow, good luck getting customer that way, RS ain't WoW, they can't be played this way. Just because you pay 5 bucks doesn't mean your high and mighty, you have more acess to content, and we f2P will have many handicapped which we don't mind unless you start taking away what was good in the first place. Community interaction, and that's something Jagex out to know for all the players not just paying one.

[Mercifull]

They should just add an extra variable to the scores of p2p or f2p. By default it only shows p2p but you can set your highscorse preferences to display p2p only, f2p only or p2p+f2p.

[Gandorf61]

The problem is these materials aren't going to be from Jagex.

Essentially it's going to be a fansite just like all the ones we have now except hosted by on Jagex servers. If all new players see this when they start playing will anyone even bother looking for a different resource? Jagex seems to be pushing for one big community which if successful will hurt other fansites and the communities they have built up. This won't improve game information at all, just make it so that players never have to leave runescape.com.

It won't improve access to information, indeed the information given will, arguably, be of even less quality than the RSKB currently provides... but players will engage less in information-seeking behaviour (i.e. looking for fansites)? I'm just not following the logic behind this assumption. :huh:

 

Sorry what I meant to say is that over time the "Official" Runescape Wiki will contain just as much information as any other fansite currently since it's only limited by player knowledge which is all that fansites have. If the exact same knowledge is available on the Runescape Official Wiki, why bother going to another site to read it? The only thing fansites will have over the wiki is calculators, stat sigs, stat tracking, and other similar tools. Many of these need highscores which ties into how removing F2P from them is just another slap in the face to fansites.

 

(Hope this makes somewhat more sense)

[Logdotzip]

c/p off a video concerning the change:

 

I disagree, your hard work will reappear should you ever decide to resubscribe. The only members who suffer are those with 200m in skills, because it their subscriptions lapses and then they resubscribe, they'll be put at the end of the 200m ranks.

Couple Jmods recently came clean about the stance on f2p. They said it is a demo. This is a company, this is them taking priority for members over f2p. You want Jagex to be honest, this is their honesty.

And truthfully, it's 5 - 8 bucks. Oh no.

[Syd]

Pony up the monthly fee and get over it

I can assure you that most of us f2p have enough fee to kept us going until we die, but we choose to stay f2p because we see it as different challenges. I thought it was a success that Jagex could get rid of bot and dice game for good but taking away an existing feature for f2p to increase potential membership sale is.sad. there are better way to make money, but def not this way. I am thankful for.Jagex. (the one Andrew intended) to make this game, but the new Jagex seems to care about the money than community. To make a game that's so community based is not to alienate them, but also embrace some aspect even for some small lost in revenue but gain lots on the future.

So let me get this straight. You are thankful for Jagex for making a game that you've played for free for years, and you only play it because you like to play the free to game version of the game? You even say yourself the price for the membership isn't that big and you would have enough money to keep you going in members as long as you want. And still you think this is a slap against your face, because they remove an option that shouldn't have even been there in the demo in the first place? If highscores were always only a members only feature, there would be no "I'll play only free to play because it's better and more challenging" -people, and everyone would just enjoy the game as it was ment to be played. As a full version, not as a demo.

 

Besides, in my opinion it's a total waste of time to keep playing only the free to play version of the game. Buying the membership, you are not losing any content, but instead receiving alot of new. And then it's upto you to decide how much of the new content you like, and if there are things that were doable in f2p that you still like to do. I'm just saying, once you get P2p, there's no turning back to the free-to-play version. :thumbup:

[cruseder4]

I would like to see what el popo1 and water are going to do.

[Saradomin_Mage]

So let me get this straight. You are thankful for Jagex for making a game that you've played for free for years, and you only play it because you like to play the free to game version of the game? You even say yourself the price for the membership isn't that big and you would have enough money to keep you going in members as long as you want. And still you think this is a slap against your face, because they remove an option that shouldn't have even been there in the demo in the first place? If highscores were always only a members only feature, there would be no "I'll play only free to play because it's better and more challenging" -people, and everyone would just enjoy the game as it was ment to be played. As a full version, not as a demo.

I guess the point here is that the highscores weren't always members only, and F2P and P2P have, since 2002, shared the same highscores. It's more of a slap in the face to F2P players because the F2P game, which is supposed to be a game in its own right, has now been unceremoniously downgraded into a demo and is having this legacy feature ripped out. It's one thing to deny F2P updates, another thing to throw pop-up ads and member marketing into their game, and another to actually start cutting off features they used to have access to.

 

And this highscore cut - really, what is it for?

 

Also RIP The Old Nite

[The Runar]

I don't like this update at all. I first became a member around 5 years ago, and it was only because I had already played the F2P game and liked it. After the bot nuke, we have all seen that the F2P game is not really popular at all; almost all currently playing players are P2P, while I expected it to be more like 50/50. What Jagex really needs right now is more F2P players, most of which will eventually become members, if they find the free game interesting. Removing free features we've had for 10 years doesn't help at all.

 

About F2P being a demo - I don't really see it as a demo, but more like a base for the members' game. The only thing which keeps the game alive is the stable flow of free players to members, and if that base is destroyed (which seems to be Jagex' current plan), the whole game will eventually collapse from the lack of paying members. Considering that RS doesn't exactly have a good reputation, most people would never even touch it if they couldn't try it for free.

 

About the hiscores themselves - I've always liked them. I've found it quite fun to see my ranks slowly rise ever since I first got on the hiscores (@ lvl 31 firemaking in late '05), but hiscores aren't completely necessary for me. I guess that most of the high level players - especially the free players, who can attract a lot of new players to the game, even though they pay nothing themselves - wouldn't have played for so long without the competition the hiscore lists offer, though.

 

And to those "no pay no say" guys: think about it like this. Your friend gives you a birthday present, something you really like, for example a new video game. After enjoying it for a while, he demands you to give it back. Would you really just be quiet and do as he says because you didn't pay anything for the game in the first place?

 

tl;dr: I pay, and I say that hiscores should be free.

[Carl]

Horribly disappointed with the Hiscores update.

 

It's put a damper on a good two months.

[FIREWORKS]

My biggest problem is that this update will [bleep] over all the progress tracking websites. I've been member for years continuously, but usually i re-subscribe a day or two after the membership running out, that means that the tracking website will think that i have gained all my xp in a day or i'm a new user after resubscribing and re-appearing on the highscores.

 

 

After all the awesome recent updates they've decided to do this. Wow, Jagex has sunk low and i don't even know if this company is worth supporting with 6 a month.

[The Observer]

Pony up the monthly fee and get over it

I can assure you that most of us f2p have enough fee to kept us going until we die, but we choose to stay f2p because we see it as different challenges. I thought it was a success that Jagex could get rid of bot and dice game for good but taking away an existing feature for f2p to increase potential membership sale is.sad. there are better way to make money, but def not this way. I am thankful for.Jagex. (the one Andrew intended) to make this game, but the new Jagex seems to care about the money than community. To make a game that's so community based is not to alienate them, but also embrace some aspect even for some small lost in revenue but gain lots on the future.

So let me get this straight. You are thankful for Jagex for making a game that you've played for free for years, and you only play it because you like to play the free to game version of the game? You even say yourself the price for the membership isn't that big and you would have enough money to keep you going in members as long as you want. And still you think this is a slap against your face, because they remove an option that shouldn't have even been there in the demo in the first place? If highscores were always only a members only feature, there would be no "I'll play only free to play because it's better and more challenging" -people, and everyone would just enjoy the game as it was ment to be played. As a full version, not as a demo.

 

Besides, in my opinion it's a total waste of time to keep playing only the free to play version of the game. Buying the membership, you are not losing any content, but instead receiving alot of new. And then it's upto you to decide how much of the new content you like, and if there are things that were doable in f2p that you still like to do. I'm just saying, once you get P2p, there's no turning back to the free-to-play version. :thumbup:

 

What is really unfortunate about updates such as this is that it brings out the idea that the two communities are truly separate. It doesn't become the same game anymore. Anyone who is F2P ends up being seen as 'inferior' to everyone who is P2P and this is just unfortunate. The game used to be F2P when it came out in 2001. It continued to be so until 2 years after that in 2003. As soon as you joined, did you buy membership? Did you buy membership on tutorial island? No, that's what makes this game special. People play the F2P version of this game and then they can pay for the expansion. In theory, restricting the free version of the game should encourage more players to buy P2P, but in reality it will just discourage more players from playing F2P which will reduce the number of players coming into the game. Highscores do have a use because you can compare highscores with a friend, or checking their stats before joining a Runescape clan. (This will also break sites such as Runehead.) Since Runescape is a game based on achievement, the only thing it's going to do is discourage players from playing in the first place before they get membership.

 

Didn't Jagex advertise themselves as the #1 free game not too long ago?

 

Many of those players who are 'purely F2P' have P2P on alternate accounts, so they would know how P2P is compared to F2P.

 

In regards to the wiki, I'm disappointed in what Jagex is doing. The only thing it's going to do is discourage players from visiting fansites that they "support". I honestly don't see the logic in making something that already exists. It's just a waste of time and resources to make (pretty much) a big middle finger for those sites that have supported them for the past 10+ years.

[Central_Keeper]

So let me get this straight. You are thankful for Jagex for making a game that you've played for free for years, and you only play it because you like to play the free to game version of the game? You even say yourself the price for the membership isn't that big and you would have enough money to keep you going in members as long as you want. And still you think this is a slap against your face, because they remove an option that shouldn't have even been there in the demo in the first place? If highscores were always only a members only feature, there would be no "I'll play only free to play because it's better and more challenging" -people, and everyone would just enjoy the game as it was ment to be played. As a full version, not as a demo.

 

Besides, in my opinion it's a total waste of time to keep playing only the free to play version of the game. Buying the membership, you are not losing any content, but instead receiving alot of new. And then it's upto you to decide how much of the new content you like, and if there are things that were doable in f2p that you still like to do. I'm just saying, once you get P2p, there's no turning back to the free-to-play version. :thumbup:

 

The highscore options has always been there for P2p and F2p alike, no one said it was a premium feature that only P2p should have. If they did that in the past, I don't think RS would be as popular as they are now.

 

Even though I am saying this because I have been a F2P for a long time, but there are other players who doesn't go as hardcore as I am, would like to know their progress and compare to their friends as f2p, as they have a chance to become P2p later.

 

Even outside of RS, I often talk to other in gaming community about RS, and Jagex is removing their "good points" about their F2P content. If someone asked me how Runescape is, I would be like, well, they get rid of bots, thats good, but they also get rid of your achievement unless you pay. I think I can contribute to RS without paying for that fee, but advocate it through other means, so a word of mouth here (thats again, how they started), is a strong thing.

 

IMO, playing Runescape is a total waste of time F2P or P2P (unless you run it like a background program) to anyone's life, but bottom line is you enjoy it (as many other have shared the same sentiment.) I always told others that you play the game you want to play, and removing a feature that makes it good in the first place IMO is taking away an integral part of the F2p content. (But I do agree that if you go P2p, you should stick with P2p)

 

Overall, I still think Runescape F2P version is a great game, and Highscore was something that motivated me through my RS career, I can probably live by without it TBH, but it would not be the same without them in grand scheme of thing, especially for other F2p. Like many said, F2P content is pretty dry and basic, and removing one of the solid point (and always there feature), is defintely not a good move, if Jagex want RS to be "one of the best F2p" game there, then they should leave it as it is.

[Kimberly]

The old manual has been transplanted into a new, wiki-based format and will form the core of the new website. With the exception of a few key pages maintained solely by Jagex staff, these pages can be edited, and visual assets can be uploaded, by RuneScape account holders who meet certain baseline requirements.

 

That is extremely unfair to RSWiki. Has something been worked out between that fansite and Jagex, I wonder?

 

This is for a number of reasons, but the main one is to keep them fresh. We want the hiscores to feature players who will compete with each other, tooth and nail, for hiscore glory. There are many dormant accounts within the hiscores that have not played for a very long time, and this will give new arrivals in Gielinor a shot at hiscore fame alongside the grizzled veterans on equal terms for all.

 

*facepalm*

 

Better that they made a RUNETRACKER feature for members only. Removing the high-scores from F2P is absolutely ridiculous. I would rather see them delete old account records from high scores rather than this...*sigh* It makes business-sense, I guess...but damn does this hurt a lot of people.

[Jonanananas]

I notice that those who agree with this step mostly are saying "Be happy for what you got"

 

 

Sorry guys, but that's not how it works in real life. It may be stunning to know, but there are actually a lot of free games out there. Sure, the important ones all have a feature to get money, be it an extension or a pay2win system - that's not the problem. The problem is that those f2p games are direct competitors, and if f2p players are unhappy with f2p runescape, they'll migrate to another game. F2P Runescape is needed for the members conversion and I am convinced that Jagex is in the long run cutting in its own flesh with updates like this. Think about it, this is about getting more f2pers to subscribe as members. Do you actually think that despite all the other advantages P2P has, f2pers are going to subscribe for that? Some will of course, high level players who want to keep their ranks, 200m members will keep playing...but those are some individuals, not the mass of people. At the same time, you will have a number of f2pers who decide NOT to pay Jagex in the future, maybe even P2Pers quitting because of it.

 

It will also hurt the f2p community, and the worse this gets, the less people will eventually be converted into members. What would you think if you join a game with only few people playing, who are telling you how Jagex screwed them over when you might be talking about getting membership?

 

 

 

Regardless if you think f2pers "deserve" it or not, I stand by my opinion that simply businesswise, this is a stupid move.

 

 

 

 

And on the new KB....some people have mentioned that players won't be leaving the runescape site anymore...Is this maybe an attempt to prevent people from learning about the possibilites to buy gold? That's the only reason I can think of why they would try to replace fansites in this manner...