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tripsis

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THe "hard numbers" you have posted in regards to traffic - not signups - pertain only to the usage of the one search engine. You aren't the first to have postage those "hard numbers", and funnily enough, those threads were removed as well.

No, actually, I am the poster of almost all of those threads...

And no, they're very much right here if you would like me to bump them.

 

Please I'm begging you not to post those Alexa and Google trends graphs! If only to save yourself from the embarrassment of being completely and utterly wrong.

 

Oh look, less people are searching for "birthday parties" online. That can only mean the population of the world is decreasing... http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=birthday%20parties&cmpt=q

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Look, Jagex isn't as popular as it was a couple years back. That being said, it's not the time to screw around and piss off huge amounts of loyal players. Frankly, there's a never a time for that, but there are times that are worse to do it and it is my opinion that is one of those times.

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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How do you know how few new players are joining the game? Are you privvy to information that noone else in this thread is? If not then you are just speculating.

 

I don't have the exact numbers, but there have been posts on other threads about the amount of new players signing up and such and it has significantly dropped off over the past couple years. It's hardly speculation and very widely accepted.

 

So in other words, things you pulled out of your rear or things that other people have pulled out of theirs. And by "very widely excepted" you mean "in your head."

 

Less popular than OMG EVERYONE TRY THIS GAME NOW on miniclip doesn't necessarily mean it's in the tubes.

 

Honestly, go to lol, starcraft, and wow boards and feel the energy there. Now to go to rsof ( or even sadly right here on tif) and just see how different it is. Frankly, how dead it is compare to anything else.

Negativity is the new cool on gaming boards. It's a trend on every game. Is EVE Online failing because they have negative boards? Star Trek Online is still gaining subscriptions and they are going F2P next month with an explosion of population and people are still doing nothing but whining on the forums because they get attention for it. The minority will always be more vocal.

 

The game will go on. It's a hiscores system. Most skill based games don't even have those.

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My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley

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First of all, just to clarify - I called your reasoning short-sighted and arrogant, not yourself. Not intended to be a personal attack ;)

 

Again, you are argumenting from your own point of view. When I started playing runescape, the highscores *were* relevant to me, even though it took some time to get on them. I can't say what would have happened if I didn't have access to them at that point, but it would have been different and I can imagine that it could result in some new people not getting membership when they would have before this update.

 

And of course there's pressure from the highscores, else it would have been foolish as hell from Jagex to do this move. After all, you can see that there is negativity towards this update, and with nothing positive to balance that(i.e. more people subscribing/staying subscribed) it would be stupid even to do that.

I personally haven't cared about highscores for a long time now, but other people obviously do.

 

Not quite sure what you mean with your last point honestly. Aren't people allowed to vent their frustration about an update while still continuing to play? Or is this about people saying "I quit!" and then being back a week later?

 

You took time to get on the high scores. Until that time they were inconsequential. Until you got really into RS it didn’t matter. They were there but you weren't on them. Same as any newbie then. You’re also making decisions for new players who have had no previous experience on RS then making assumptions that they won’t join because of the high scores. Clairvoyant are we? :pray:

 

I don’t personally care about high scores either as there’s much more game content than that. If players feel pressured then perhaps they should look at giving RS a break anyway. It’s obviously not doing them any good if there’s pressure to ‘play a game’.

 

Your last point is correct. Threats of “I quit” like I’ve seen before and they still don’t go. Being frank it’s quite a bratty community we have on RS these days. There’s still posters in these forums who have claimed they’ve quit/hardly play yet they’re very active and spitting poison about Jagex. If anything is harmful to the game it’s these people who have a major beef with Jagex, but can’t let things go and move on. Anything obsessive like that can't be healthy.

 

Negativity is the new cool on gaming boards. It's a trend on every game. Is EVE Online failing because they have negative boards? Star Trek Online is still gaining subscriptions and they are going F2P next month with an explosion of population and people are still doing nothing but whining on the forums because they get attention for it. The minority will always be more vocal.

 

The game will go on. It's a hiscores system. Most skill based games don't even have those.

Well said :lol:

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I don't know what "widely expected" means in the way you use it, but it is widely accepted around here. I didn't just pull this out of my butt. New players are down, membership is down, and the customer's faith in Jagex is clearly down.

 

Now if expect me to go hunting for all the numbers on this, no. I don't care enough to do the work to prove a point that will just be ignored. People like you Bari count on other's laziness so that they don't have to debate the point.

 

In any case, I could say how about you find the proof and numbers, but honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to prove this to anyone. And I never said the game is in the tubes or that the quality of updates is poor, etc.

 

No, this isn't the miniclip era, but during that with all the huge amounts of traffic the new membership they would have more wiggle room to screw around.

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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This idea that you make a claim and expect others to find the supportive data is someone absurd.

I have numbers that say noone is signing up to WoW or LoL.

 

Goodness me. It must be true.

You can find the data.

 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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This idea that you make a claim and expect others to find the supportive data is someone absurd.

I have numbers that say noone is signing up to WoW or LoL.

 

Goodness me. It must be true.

You can find the data.

 

I wasn't seriously asking for it. I was being sarcastic about how instead of discussing opinions, one side prompts the other to do all this to support an opinion. You know we're lazy. You know we won't do it. I accept the notion that Jagex's playerbase is shrinking. You don't. Cool, can we get past this and talk about the issue?

 

Here is my opinion: Jagex doesn't have nearly as many new people signing up as they used to. With the number falling lately, it is an especially bad time to go screwing with your loyal playerbase. Mmmmkay?

 

Their stance on taking f2p off hiscores is defendable, but they aren't. They're trying misdirection to try and make it about bots. Either that, or they seriously don't get what this is about.

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Doesn't Jagex know that although you can give P2P as many exclusive features as you want, taking features away from F2P that they already had is a death wish?

 

Brb quitting again for the 3rd time in the past year.

The only difference between Hitler and the man next door who comes home and beats his kids every day is circumstance. The intent is the same-- to harm others.

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I told her there was a secret method to doing it - and there is - but my once nimble and agile fingers were unable to perform because I was under the influence.

I would laugh, not hate. I'm a male. :(

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I actually have a hobby of licking public toilet seats.

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Doesn't Jagex know that although you can give P2P as many exclusive features as you want, taking features away from F2P that they already had is a death wish?

 

Brb quitting again for the 3rd time in the past year.

 

When you take away things f2p has had since the beginning, it's feasible they could do anything to f2p. That is a *very* slippery slope.

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Maybe they don't want free loaders around for a very long time? Jagex wants new clients to play the f2p game, get a taste of it then pull out their credit cards. People that leech off the f2p system aren't providing anything to their company other than a strain on their resources. If someone plays a game for 12 months on f2p more than likely they won't decide on month 13 that they want to pay. This upedate just provides people less incentive to stick around for months and months without ever shelling out any money on the game.

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I don't know what "widely expected" means in the way you use it, but it is widely accepted around here. I didn't just pull this out of my butt. New players are down, membership is down, and the customer's faith in Jagex is clearly down.

 

Now if expect me to go hunting for all the numbers on this, no. I don't care enough to do the work to prove a point that will just be ignored. People like you Bari count on other's laziness so that they don't have to debate the point.

 

In any case, I could say how about you find the proof and numbers, but honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to prove this to anyone. And I never said the game is in the tubes or that the quality of updates is poor, etc.

 

My numbers say that you're full of crap.

 

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If someone plays a game for 12 months on f2p more than likely they won't decide on month 13 that they want to pay. This upedate just provides people less incentive to stick around for months and months without ever shelling out any money on the game.

I played as pure F2P for well over a year before I got P2P. Ever since I've gotten a few months every year but my heart has always been in F2P. I've put well over $100 into Jagex's pockets but suddenly, because I'm not paying at this very moment, it's as if I don't exist.

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I don't know what "widely expected" means in the way you use it, but it is widely accepted around here. I didn't just pull this out of my butt. New players are down, membership is down, and the customer's faith in Jagex is clearly down.

 

Now if expect me to go hunting for all the numbers on this, no. I don't care enough to do the work to prove a point that will just be ignored. People like you Bari count on other's laziness so that they don't have to debate the point.

 

In any case, I could say how about you find the proof and numbers, but honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to prove this to anyone. And I never said the game is in the tubes or that the quality of updates is poor, etc.

 

My numbers say that you're full of crap.

 

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Your numbers say nothing. They do not differentiate between income from Runescape, Funorb, that other game they have, the chinese history one, whatever. Also that doesn't include income they may have taken in their store. It doesn't list anything about the amount of people that play, how many accounts per person, etc. I see nothing about gross income versus net income. Nothing about added players or customer retention. And keeping in mind that the increase on membership costs, though very small, will raise the actual amount money coming in. Nothing about spending or the "investments." Frankly, your graph shows very little, except their operating profit margin is down.

 

And... 2011 is soo the year of Jagex death dude. :wink:

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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I was originally planning to buy a month of membership (or two) for the holiday season. However, seeing that Jagex has just decided to screw F2P over, I've decided that my money will now go to charity instead.

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I was originally planning to buy a month of membership (or two) for the holiday season. However, seeing that Jagex has just decided to screw F2P over, I've decided that my money will now go to charity instead.

 

I'd have to say at this point giving money to Jagex is giving money to charity.

Was Deathknell, but the password recovery never worked for me. So I'm this now. Whatever. Someone get me some damn fried chicken!

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Your numbers say nothing. They do not differentiate between income from Runescape, Funorb, that other game they have, the chinese history one, whatever. Also that doesn't include income they may have taken in their store. It doesn't list anything about the amount of people that play, how many accounts per person, etc. I see nothing about gross income versus net income. Nothing about added players or customer retention. And keeping in mind that the increase on membership costs, though very small, will raise the actual amount money coming in. Nothing about spending or the "investments." Frankly, your graph shows very little, except their operating profit margin is down.

 

And... 2011 is soo the year of Jagex death dude. :wink:

 

 

Cant you bother to do some research first?

 

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2010/04/free-doesnt-work-try-telling-that-to-jagex-making-38m-from-one-free-game-runescape/

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Your numbers say nothing. They do not differentiate between income from Runescape, Funorb, that other game they have, the chinese history one, whatever. Also that doesn't include income they may have taken in their store. It doesn't list anything about the amount of people that play, how many accounts per person, etc. I see nothing about gross income versus net income. Nothing about added players or customer retention. And keeping in mind that the increase on membership costs, though very small, will raise the actual amount money coming in. Nothing about spending or the "investments." Frankly, your graph shows very little, except their operating profit margin is down.

 

And... 2011 is soo the year of Jagex death dude. :wink:

 

 

Cant you bother to do some research first?

 

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2010/04/free-doesnt-work-try-telling-that-to-jagex-making-38m-from-one-free-game-runescape/

 

Agreed, a company that is going under DOES NOT, DOES NOT, DOES NOT, NEVER WILL give out a $22,000,000 Dividend. If they are near debt, that last thing they are doing is giving out THAT MUCH money. If anything they are converting treasury stock/shares (US/UK) into Common Stock and trying to sell it on the market to inject some money into the company

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I've literally been subscribed as a member for 7 years straight, and I'm vehemently opposed to any changes like this to f2p.

 

I've hardly played for the last few months. I play more in the summer usually, but I imagine that I'll quit eventually. When I do, all records of what I've done in the last 8 years (1 year of f2p first) will just be gone. Why don't I just unsubscribe now then? The end result will be almost the same.

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While there are many things I would like to shout angrily and past statements I would like to quote back to, the moment has passed, but I leave you with this...

 

You could claim that somebody who doesn't like these changes to the point where they describe them in extensive detail and is still paying for membership or just playing at all is a hypocrite, but on the other side of that coin, anybody who has stopped playing the game is automatically unqualified to actually complain about anything and deemed to not have an actual interest in the game, thereby invalidating their opinions according to internet rules.

 

This line of logic is therefore completely idiotic and avoids the actual issues, choosing to instead antagonize the other player, and does nothing to the solution process, except prolong the annoyances and allow us to slip further into the darkness.

 

I didn't have to spend this time explaining it but here we are

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I have seen nothing in F2P game play that suggests a drop in numbers (I don't care what stats you throw at me). I have spent quite a lot of time there recently, I have had to look for a world with less numbers as I can never get in the trading world, it is always full when I am on. When I do go on an F2P world I am around Lumbridge a fair amount, now you tell me....if numbers are falling so drastically how come people end up queuing to kill cows and goblins? There is a lot of chat going on and new friendships being made, and this is all since the bot busting happened. These are all new players who are thoroughly enjoying their new experience and there is a lot of them!

 

I thought it was about time I injected some reality here, RS is a great game and is attracting new players all the time, and they don't care one bit about the issues that appear to mean so much to some of you. Issues that are driving you to quit something you enjoy in your leisure time, it's a game, I really don't understand why some people are getting so hot under the collar about it.

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Maybe they don't want free loaders around for a very long time? Jagex wants new clients to play the f2p game, get a taste of it then pull out their credit cards. People that leech off the f2p system aren't providing anything to their company other than a strain on their resources. If someone plays a game for 12 months on f2p more than likely they won't decide on month 13 that they want to pay. This upedate just provides people less incentive to stick around for months and months without ever shelling out any money on the game.

 

If a service is completely and unconditionally free to play, making use of said service cannot be considered, under any circumstance, as freeloading. It's the very definition of unconditionally free, you know? How exactly does using an unconditionally free service make you a freeloader, nevermind a "leech"? A freeloader (or free rider) is someone who consumes a resource without paying for it. As free to play is available for free, and it being free is unconditional, there is no cost or condition to be avoided, hence you cannot freeload.

 

Of course f2p costs money for Jagex (upkeep of servers etc.), but making use of a service that they make available for free without any conditions in no way makes you a freeloader. You are not obliged to get members, after all. It's a conscious choice you make, but choosing not to do so in no way diminishes your value as a player, or a human being. Most importantly, it doesn't give you, or anyone else for that matter, the right to judge them.

 

A few other things to consider:

- for most high levelled f2p (i.e. top 250 f2p etc.), it's definately not a question of money, but of pride. Training skills in f2p is harder than in p2p, because it is less efficient and more expensive. Hence, you take greater pride in your accomplishments.

- the parents of some of the younger f2p'ers simply aren't willing to shelve out money to get members. Should those f2p'ers be downplayed because of this? No. The sad irony is that for most people that judge others based on this criterium, their parents paid for their membership somewhere along the line.

- F2p does generate an income, through ads. I would hesitate to call it profitable - because of the low amount of f2p'ers currently - but it's an income nonetheless.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is for Good Men to do Nothing. (Edmund Burke)

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If a service is completely and unconditionally free to play, making use of said service cannot be considered, under any circumstance, as freeloading. It's the very definition of unconditionally free, you know? How exactly does using an unconditionally free service make you a freeloader, nevermind a "leech"? A freeloader (or free rider) is someone who consumes a resource without paying for it. As free to play is available for free, and it being free is unconditional, there is no cost or condition to be avoided, hence you cannot freeload.

 

Free to play is conditional. In this case, Jagex says "alright, we'll let you play for free as long as you'd like, but while you are free you have:

1. A severely reduced bank space.

2. Severely reduced access to the game world, quests, mini-games, equipment, etc.

3. Restricted access to skills (16 of 25)

4. Not everything in the 16 usable skills is craftable.

5. If you subscribe, you lose access to benefits when the subscription ends.

 

Like it or not, companies put out free versions to coerce people into paying, and the people on here who believe Jagex's statement that they want free to play to be its own "full game," probably aren't aware that every freemium/free to play game with a membership/cash shop has said that exact same thing.

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It's good to see more and more free players quitting, and members unsubscribing -> quitting too. :thumbup:

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