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It's not a "free" MMORPG anymore.


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Guest jrhairychest

Then they would have lost me because I played f2p for years as a teenager and didn't have a way to pay for the game. And I'm sure there were and still are plenty of people in that position.

 

Fair point but times have changed. There's plenty of kids out there with money, even those that profess to be poor, yet they still have ipods etc. Paycards are easily available, even for just a months P2P. 'Anyone' can afford this.

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Fair point but times have changed. There's plenty of kids out there with money, even those that profess to be poor, yet they still have ipods etc.

Admittedly, this bugs me to no end. I have a full time job and I can't afford an iPod/iPhone/anything starting with "i". Heck, the only reason I have a cell phone is because my company issued me one and pays for it.

 

Paycards are easily available, even for just a months P2P. 'Anyone' can afford this.

Since the Wal-Marts around Ottawa stopped carrying them, I haven't seen them anywhere else. I have no credit cards. What other options do people like me have?

 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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Guest jrhairychest

Fair point but times have changed. There's plenty of kids out there with money, even those that profess to be poor, yet they still have ipods etc.

Admittedly, this bugs me to no end. I have a full time job and I can't afford an iPod/iPhone/anything starting with "i". Heck, the only reason I have a cell phone is because my company issued me one and pays for it.

 

Paycards are easily available, even for just a months P2P. 'Anyone' can afford this.

Since the Wal-Marts around Ottawa stopped carrying them, I haven't seen them anywhere else. I have no credit cards. What other options do people like me have?

 

PaybySMS and Paypal. If you have a bank account you can use your debit card. I assume you have one as you're working.

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If being F2P is about the challenge of playing the game in a restricted way (strange way to go about it, but your choice) and not in any way about the money. Then why not become a fee paying F2P community?

 

Think carefully about your answer before you reply, and for goodness sake....don't put "why would I pay for a free game?" the answer is above!

 

They can't be a fee-paying FTP community because it defeats the idea of being FTP.

 

FTP actually is about the money no matter what anyone says, only its the tail end of the gold coin. It's the decision not to pay for the package called membership at any point whatsoever for an account. Being unable to pay counts toward that decision as well. Strictly speaking, pure FTP means having nothing to do with membership at all.

 

If some bloke pigs out cash to change their display name, FYI they're no longer purely FTP because they paid money for a member's feature. It's along the same line of reasoning as to why those who train only FTP skills in members, are excluded from the street-cred of being considered pure among the minority diehard FTP community.

 

The pure FTPers can't pay for highscores, because by doing so they're inviting those same people they've been shunning all this time.

 

Except the pure FTPers did come to the consensus that paying money to change your display name, a member's feature, will not change their pure status. That's hypocritical no matter how you cut it. Fact of the matter is, doing this means they paid money. That's what members do. If anyone starts using loopholes like Funorb membership to circumvent the heart of their own rules, that sends a message full of dollar signs to Jagex.

 

So the logic goes that, if FTP have in the past paid for something that doesn't affect their stats, but still think of themselves as pure FTP, why not the highscores? This is the crack in the armor Jagex leaped at to monetize, whether it works out or not.

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The pure F2Ps who paid to change their names, didn't pay for RuneScape membership. They paid for FunOrb membership, which allows you to change your in-game display name. That's why it doesn't affect their status, because they have never paid for RuneScape membership.

 

PaybySMS and Paypal. If you have a bank account you can use your debit card. I assume you have one as you're working.

SMS is out, the phone's not mine remember? And I always thought you needed a credit card to use PayPal.

 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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If being F2P is about the challenge of playing the game in a restricted way (strange way to go about it, but your choice) and not in any way about the money. Then why not become a fee paying F2P community?

 

Think carefully about your answer before you reply, and for goodness sake....don't put "why would I pay for a free game?" the answer is above!

 

They can't be a fee-paying FTP community because it defeats the idea of being FTP.

 

FTP actually is about the money no matter what anyone says, only its the tail end of the gold coin. It's the decision not to pay for the package called membership at any point whatsoever for an account. Being unable to pay counts toward that decision as well. Strictly speaking, pure FTP means having nothing to do with membership at all.

 

If some bloke pigs out cash to change their display name, FYI they're no longer purely FTP because they paid money for a member's feature. It's along the same line of reasoning as to why those who train only FTP skills in members, are excluded from the street-cred of being considered pure among the minority diehard FTP community.

 

The pure FTPers can't pay for highscores, because by doing so they're inviting those same people they've been shunning all this time.

 

Except the pure FTPers did come to the consensus that paying money to change your display name, a member's feature, will not change their pure status. That's hypocritical no matter how you cut it. Fact of the matter is, doing this means they paid money. That's what members do. If anyone starts using loopholes like Funorb membership to circumvent the heart of their own rules, that sends a message full of dollar signs to Jagex.

 

So the logic goes that, if FTP have in the past paid for something that doesn't affect their stats, but still think of themselves as pure FTP, why not the highscores? This is the crack in the armor Jagex leaped at to monetize, whether it works out or not.

 

I agree, if you're not playing RS on a stolen laptop, sitting in your cardboard shack playing only when the sun is out powered by your stolen photovoltaic array (plus no more than 78 watt-hours of battery power) ((because f2p bank is 78 spaces, of course)), using only the wireless internet available your shack's location to freeloaders or hackers, (((but not any hacking tools invented after RuneScape was first released in beta))), then you're not a true F2P player.

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Well, I play on a laptop given to me by my company and during the day I sit in my company truck (with 1000W power inverter to run the laptop) using the wireless internet card they pay for while wearing the uniform they gave me. Sometimes they even pay for my lunch/dinner (I love my company <3: ).

 

That must get me some points in the "true FTP" category. :P

 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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The pure F2Ps who paid to change their names, didn't pay for RuneScape membership. They paid for FunOrb membership, which allows you to change your in-game display name. That's why it doesn't affect their status, because they have never paid for RuneScape membership.

 

 

You're missing the point. They still paid money for a Jagex product that affects their RuneScape gameplay. By Jagex logic, that means they're able to pay for something like highscores if they really wanted to.

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Well, I play on a laptop given to me by my company and during the day I sit in my company truck (with 1000W power inverter to run the laptop) using the wireless internet card they pay for while wearing the uniform they gave me. Sometimes they even pay for my lunch/dinner (I love my company <3: ).

 

That must get me some points in the "true FTP" category. :P

 

Yes, if you never played at home you would qualify.

Course, even logging in from home for one second would disqualify you from membership in sunny's imaginary "true f2p" posse.

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The pure F2Ps who paid to change their names, didn't pay for RuneScape membership. They paid for FunOrb membership, which allows you to change your in-game display name. That's why it doesn't affect their status, because they have never paid for RuneScape membership.

 

 

You're missing the point. They still paid money for a Jagex product that affects their RuneScape gameplay. By Jagex logic, that means they're able to pay for something like highscores if they really wanted to.

 

How does Jagex logic differ from your logic? Don't you conclude the same thing?

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You're missing the point. They still paid money for a Jagex product that affects their RuneScape gameplay. By Jagex logic, that means they're able to pay for something like highscores if they really wanted to.

 

How does Jagex logic differ from your logic? Don't you conclude the same thing?

 

I'm not the company.

 

Course, even logging in from home for one second would disqualify you from membership in sunny's imaginary "true f2p" posse.

 

My imaginary posse? That's actually the FTP community FYI, their hypocritical attitude is real.

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Guest jrhairychest

The pure F2Ps who paid to change their names, didn't pay for RuneScape membership. They paid for FunOrb membership, which allows you to change your in-game display name. That's why it doesn't affect their status, because they have never paid for RuneScape membership.

 

PaybySMS and Paypal. If you have a bank account you can use your debit card. I assume you have one as you're working.

SMS is out, the phone's not mine remember? And I always thought you needed a credit card to use PayPal.

 

Nope you can register your bank card with paypal or pay directly to jagex with it, which is what I do with a monthly direct debit. No more excuses now :razz:

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I think one of the points that many F2P's have made is about playing the F2P game as it stands; because it's 'harder' and more of a 'challenge', so changing it would negate that. Hence my point of pay a membership fee, to get highscores etc. But keep the difficulty by only playing on free F2P worlds. Not for me, but it is an option.

 

You're just restating your point, which I understood already, without addressing the issues that I raised with it. The main one being: even if you don't take advantage of member's worlds, by becoming a member you'll look like you are, which is a negative to f2p purists.

 

 

My other point was that if not paying for membership was mainly about money, then the arguments about being a 'pure F2P' on principle, or playing F2P because it is a better game or better community etc...would be questionable ('throws out' may have been a bit strong :wink: )

 

Yes...obviously. You already said that. Why did you repeat it? Perhaps you are confused, for most people it's mainly about money, but for some it's not. You have to address each group of people with arguments that address their arguments, no single argument will suffice for alll groups.

 

Ok, I see what you are saying. Particularly in relation to the posts since then. I think I just wasn't 'getting' the stance (not sure I am now either :huh: ). The attempts since then to answer my original query have just made it more confusing to me. In a number of threads, not just this one, people have generalised their interpretation of long term F2P players as though all had the same issues or standpoint. I should have realised that as usual, posters are attempting to ensure everyone thinks their opinion is the right one and the only one.

 

So for some it is about not paying the money and they live in cardboards shacks (lol!), in which case why do they complain when they have so much for free? For others it appears to be about the challenge, and in that instance my original point still stands. There are bound to be other reasons too....all of which I am sure can be argued ;-)

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Guest jrhairychest

So for some it is about not paying the money and they live in cardboards shacks (lol!), in which case why do they complain when they have so much for free? For others it appears to be about the challenge, and in that instance my original point still stands. There are bound to be other reasons too....all of which I am sure can be argued ;-)

 

Imo, many have overstayed their welcome in F2P......Got their feet too comfortably under the table. The term "familiarity breeds contempt" is quite apt as it's exactly what happened. They just got used to having something for nothing. In a way Tipit has contributed to this type of expectation on this site with stickied threads such as "why can't F2P have..." which just encourages that culture. That's why it was a complete shock to the system when Jagex "dared" to take something away.

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Up until now, I've always been the kind who just takes what we get in a free game. However, that attitude has changed.

 

It just seems like, the more Runescape progresses, the more Jagex tries to shut down their free-to-play fanbase, in any way possible.

 

First was the dg xp cap. Makes no sense, you could still do it 2cb3sk and still get similar times. Useless.

 

Next were those capes. They were PROMISED to be for everyone, but Jagex pulled off a "lolno" and made them all members only.

 

Similar things happened to Master Runecrafter Robes.

 

Fast forward to today (because my memory is just that tiny), where we just had the bot nuke. Jagex promised events for everyone but again, they pulled off a "lolno" and every single bonus event thus far is members. Not that I'm complaining or anything, I'm happy with all the bots removed.

 

Then Jagex proceeds to eliminate the f2p hiscores altogether.

 

My final straw has been blown.

 

Runescape is not "free" anymore. If you're playing it for "free" you really should play a different free game, like League of Legends (which, by the way, is MUCH better than even p2p Runescape).

 

Please, do yourselves a favor and quit this goddamned game. It's being run by moneyhungry dictators.

 

If they had never, ever added another thing to the free game, I would have said they were justified.

But actually taking things away from the free game is sheer asshattery. It reeks of desperation.

 

They might convert a few accounts to members, but they'll be torching their built-up pile of goodwill to accomplish it.

PvP is not for me

In the 3rd Year of the Boycott
Real-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of Dollars
Real-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours

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In other news, Jagex is still the worst game designing company in the world? I'm going back to OT. Even by a "marketing perspective", this is one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever heard a company make, which is saying quite a bit.

 

EDIT: And the reason I say they are the worst gaming company in the world is because Runescape was a good idea, but what they did with it... What they did with it...

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Guest jrhairychest

In other news, Jagex is still the worst game designing company in the world? I'm going back to OT. Even by a "marketing perspective", this is one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever heard a company make, which is saying quite a bit.

 

EDIT: And the reason I say they are the worst gaming company in the world is because Runescape was a good idea, but what they did with it... What they did with it...

 

Feel free to elaborate as to why

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Well, I don't want to derail the thread too much, but I will comment that they started out with a good formula for an MMORPG. The idea of training one specific skill at a time and unlock more abilities gave merit to the competitive, individualistic atmosphere that any Role Playing Game needs. They also kept their world simple, but yet every aspect was intertwined in order for you to build your character up to a self-sufficient one-man-army. The F2P -> P2P transition was also very... natural. Players were intrigued by an online realm with tons of open-ended possibilities. You already had your hands pretty full with trying to achieve that full Rune set. If you wanted to take your adventuring a little more seriously, you had the option to pay for more content.

 

Now, not only have the skills and equipment become unbalanced, but Jagex explicitly snatched away F2P hi scores from anyone with the impression that their legacy would remain with the Runescape world even after death. It just goes to show that Jagex is much more concerned about making money than making a respectable, longstanding, nostalgia-invoking computer game that fans can appreciate for a lifetime.

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So, Jagex is the worst gaming company in the world because they're not making games that you can appreciate for a lifetime. I'd ask you which other company has made a game that one could appreciate for a lifetime, but MMO's haven't been around for that long, have they? I guess that makes all MMO companies equally the worst in the world, by your standards. Doesn't seem all that interesting of a judgement, then, but you go on and enjoy it.

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Guest jrhairychest

Well, I don't want to derail the thread too much, but I will comment that they started out with a good formula for an MMORPG. The idea of training one specific skill at a time and unlock more abilities gave merit to the competitive, individualistic atmosphere that any Role Playing Game needs. They also kept their world simple, but yet every aspect was intertwined in order for you to build your character up to a self-sufficient one-man-army. The F2P -> P2P transition was also very... natural. Players were intrigued by an online realm with tons of open-ended possibilities. You already had your hands pretty full with trying to achieve that full Rune set. If you wanted to take your adventuring a little more seriously, you had the option to pay for more content.

 

Now, not only have the skills and equipment become unbalanced, but Jagex explicitly snatched away F2P hi scores from anyone with the impression that their legacy would remain with the Runescape world even after death. It just goes to show that Jagex is much more concerned about making money than making a respectable, longstanding, nostalgia-invoking computer game that fans can appreciate for a lifetime.

 

Your first paragraph sounds about right.

 

In terms of your second paragraph Jagex has explicitly stated they are working on revised combat and equipment so it's a wait and see policy. As to the rest, it's up to Jagex. It's their product so it's up to them how they use it. If they want to make profit from it so be it. They are a company after all and their primary goal is to make money, not to be nice to everyone.

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So, Jagex is the worst gaming company in the world because they're not making games that you can appreciate for a lifetime. I'd ask you which other company has made a game that one could appreciate for a lifetime, but MMO's haven't been around for that long, have they? I guess that makes all MMO companies equally the worst in the world, by your standards. Doesn't seem all that interesting of a judgement, then, but you go on and enjoy it.

 

Most other MMO's didn't get the opportunity to thrive and flourish in a time with absolutely no other competition, aside from Everquest whom they trumped by making their game more easily accessible to all gamers rather than just the serious ones. Jagex had online gaming by the balls, and they let it get away. They have went from one of the best to one of the worst - was my point.

 

In terms of your second paragraph Jagex has explicitly stated they are working on revised combat and equipment so it's a wait and see policy.

 

I'm not too optimistic that they are going to bring a radical combat/skill change to Runescape that's going to fix the current problems without opening up a whole new can of worms (like how they tried combating bots by ruining parts of their game for legitimate players, which merely pushed the bots to other gold-farming strategies for a while until just recently), but we'll wait and see.

 

They are a company after all and their primary goal is to make money, not to be nice to everyone.

 

I don't see how this follows at all. Everyone knows that in order to maximize profits, you have to please the potential customers. Not only to give them a product they want to put money towards, but also a company they want to put money towards. (I can't tell you how much I hear people say they won't buy something just off the basis that their commercial is annoying or one of their company policies are ridiculous.) I'm sure by the look of this thread that not too many P2P are happy with the update either.

 

They are free to do what they wish with their own hard-earned assets, but I am free to contend that I will do a better job when I'm the one with a position in game design since I have the advantage of learning from their mistakes.

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In terms of your second paragraph Jagex has explicitly stated they are working on revised combat and equipment so it's a wait and see policy. As to the rest, it's up to Jagex. It's their product so it's up to them how they use it. If they want to make profit from it so be it. They are a company after all and their primary goal is to make money, not to be nice to everyone.

If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

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Most other MMO's didn't get the opportunity to thrive and flourish in a time with absolutely no other competition, aside from Everquest whom they trumped by making their game more easily accessible to all gamers rather than just the serious ones. Jagex had online gaming by the balls, and they let it get away. They have went from one of the best to one of the worst - was my point.

 

If that's your point, then your point is based on bad memory and unsupported assertion. If you'd asked anyone 10 years ago who would be the biggest online gaming company now, they would have said Blizzard or Sony. Surprise! Everyone (but you) was right all along. You haven't supported your claim that Jagex is currently one of the worst at all, either. You've yet to say one concrete thing that Jagex does badly now that some other company does better.

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