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It's not a "free" MMORPG anymore.


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You haven't supported your claim that Jagex is currently one of the worst at all, either. You've yet to say one concrete thing that Jagex does badly now that some other company does better.

 

I already said I didn't want to derail this thread to the point of explaining every little flaw about their marketing perspective in detailed format. If you want to think I'm unjustified in thinking Jagex sucks as a company, go ahead. I've already provided you with more than enough points in my previous posts to figure it out though.

 

If you'd asked anyone 10 years ago who would be the biggest online gaming company now, they would have said Blizzard or Sony. Surprise! Everyone (but you) was right all along.

 

You know, for people who complain about needing to support baseless assertions you'd think they would have the courtesy of at least presenting a non-fallacious argument in return to set a good example. :lol:

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I already said I didn't want to derail this thread to the point of explaining every little flaw about their marketing perspective in detailed format. If you want to think I'm unjustified in thinking Jagex sucks as a company, go ahead. I've already provided you with more than enough points in my previous posts to figure it out though.

 

No you haven't.

 

You know, for people who complain about needing to support baseless assertions you'd think they would have the courtesy of at least presenting a non-fallacious argument in return to set a good example. :lol:

 

Sorry, that's you committing the fallacy there. You are making the initial, or positive claim, therefore it's your responsibility to provide evidence first. "Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made." What fallacy were you accusing me of committing, btw? Seems a bit rude to accuse me of it without being specific.

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No you haven't.

 

I have. You just didn't bother to read anything other than my direct responses to you or look between the lines. My point is that Jagex sucks - they had great potential and now even a large portion of their paying members show distaste towards them due to this update. Of course the "worst-gaming-company-ever" thing wasn't meant to be taken to the absolute. I never came here and said I was going to write an essay about Jagex's marketing tactics - I simply wanted to express my dissatisfaction with an idiom that I didn't expect to be jumped on like it's candy.

 

Sorry, that's you committing the fallacy there. You are making the initial, or positive claim, therefore it's your responsibility to provide evidence first. "Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made."

 

So if I make a mistake in my reasoning, this enables you to commit however many logical fallacies as you wish to support your point? You don't fight bad logic with more bad logic.

 

What fallacy were you accusing me of committing, btw? Seems a bit rude to accuse me of it without being specific.

 

You are making the claim that, "Ten years ago, everybody knew that Blizzard and Sony were going to be ruling the market." You did not provide one piece of reasoning or evidence and I doubt you can with such a powerful assertion. Despite complaining about my style of logical reasoning, how I say I don't like Jagex's company policies on a subjective level without pouring every detail about my cognitive reasoning out, you consequently proceeded to make an objective claim (that speaks for everybody) without even a shred of evidence.

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I explicitly spelled out what the fallacy argumentum ad ignorantium was, but your reply to me is nothing but you committing that fallacy over and over. Though we clearly have nothing left to say to each other, I wish you the best of luck in the future. Although dropping it here would probably be best, any further replies will be via PM.

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Guest jrhairychest

I don't see how this follows at all. Everyone knows that in order to maximize profits, you have to please the potential customers. Not only to give them a product they want to put money towards, but also a company they want to put money towards. (I can't tell you how much I hear people say they won't buy something just off the basis that their commercial is annoying or one of their company policies are ridiculous.) I'm sure by the look of this thread that not too many P2P are happy with the update either.

 

They are free to do what they wish with their own hard-earned assets, but I am free to contend that I will do a better job when I'm the one with a position in game design since I have the advantage of learning from their mistakes.

 

Youre right. Pleasing potential customers is a key issue. However, potential customers play for a good while even before high scores come into play. That customer then has the option of choosing to pay or not for their high scores amongst other things. The unhappy chappies you speak of are those who are F2P and dont intend to be P2P. The thing is the culture of F2P is that it concentrates what it doesnt/cant have rather than appreciating what it does. Ive been enjoying watching the threats to quit from a few of the P2P element....until the next updates come along. Fickle people.

 

If you feel Jagex are short-changing the community then test it for yourself. Go to any on-line game company that has an F2P and P2P, demand to play for free as long as you want and issue demands on what you should have. After a few two-fingered salutes youll begin to realise that actually, the F2P community in RS doesnt do so bad.

 

You may do a better job than Jagex, you may not. Doesnt matter. When/if you do get a career in game design youll learn that there are much worse companies than Jagex who are much more interested in the £ rather than what service they provide.

 

If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

I think people need to grow up and move on and accept it. That or leave. It's up to them.

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If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

I think people need to grow up and move on and accept it. That or leave. It's up to them.

 

TBH, I've noticed a fair number of people in P2P worlds who have recently switched from F2P to P2P. I'm not sure what makes people think that the tactic didn't work. Seems to me that a lot of people did grow up, move on, and subscribe, and that people who quit RS but still post here are basing their arguments on wishful thinking.

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You may do a better job than Jagex, you may not. Doesn’t matter. When/if you do get a career in game design you’ll learn that there are much worse companies than Jagex who are much more interested in the £ rather than what service they provide.

 

Yeah, that's for sure. I guess I just came off a little too strong in this thread - I'm just shocked because Jagex seemed to be one of those companies that were more dedicated to maintaining a solid fan base than pushing their real life statistics as far as they can go. Maybe it will be successful, maybe it won't. Either way, this is just another prime example that business and ethics do not mix well.

 

I explicitly spelled out what the fallacy argumentum ad ignorantium was, but your reply to me is nothing but you committing that fallacy over and over. Though we clearly have nothing left to say to each other, I wish you the best of luck in the future. Although dropping it here would probably be best, any further replies will be via PM.

 

Seems to me like you're the one giving your best effort to evade the actual discussion at hand. I provide you with explanations behind my claims, inquiry you to provide some of your own explanations about your claims, and by default your response is that I'm clearly not even trying to have a logical discussion with you. Who's the one posting baseless assertions? At least you're wise enough to realize you're running out of traps to hide behind.

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As a college student about to complete a degree in business, this move is what all of my management, marketing, economics, and administrative business professors would use in their class as a prime example of "stupid moves in public relations."

 

I understand that marketing might not necessarily be their field of expertise, but this is just common sense.

 

In the game's context, we went from a year ago where they were toting around their only Guinness World Record holder, who is a free player, and now we reach the point where we won't even have a record of her existence. Stay classy, Jagex.

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There seems to be some kind of a common theme here, as if this is the thread for college students to bask in their superiority over Jagex, whose employees have all been growing ever dimmer with every year they are separated from their university of record, as well as rolling around in piles of sleaze and money. Carry on, then.

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There seems to be some kind of a common theme here, as if this is the thread for college students to bask in their superiority over Jagex, whose employees have all been growing ever dimmer with every year they are separated from their university of record, as well as rolling around in piles of sleaze and money. Carry on, then.

 

That's just the thing, though. I know they have a marketing team at this point. The New York Times did a similar thing with this when making their e-edition of the paper subscription-based. However, they had many prepared statements as well as a huge advertising campaign ready for it. I just really don't know what put it in that Jagex teams' heads that after all of this awesome publicity they've been getting with Runefest and killing bots, that they'd put a buzz-kill like this in several weeks after good stuff with nothing content-wise to make amends for what the F2P lost.

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If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

I think people need to grow up and move on and accept it. That or leave. It's up to them.

While I agree with that stance for those who say that Jagex ruined the game with the update and they are quitting forever (all the doomsayers after every update), I also think that people should be able to vent about something they don't agree with. Did I find the update unfair to f2p? Yes. Am I going to quit over it? No, because it would be silly to quit over something that doesn't kill my joy in the game.

[hide]

unbinding green's kidneys for ltk's heart

do you farm guam like me sir ltk

[/hide]

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If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

I think people need to grow up and move on and accept it. That or leave. It's up to them.

 

Or you could just learn to ignore them:

 

Your Options ---> Profile ---> Manage Ignored Users

 

Nobody is making you read these dissident voices but yourself.

PvP is not for me

In the 3rd Year of the Boycott
Real-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of Dollars
Real-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours

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If their goal was to make high scores an incentive to getting members and making money, it seemed to fail badly. All it ended up doing was pissing off a large amount of members and nonmenbers.

I think people need to grow up and move on and accept it. That or leave. It's up to them.

 

Or you could just learn to ignore them:

 

Your Options ---> Profile ---> Manage Ignored Users

 

Nobody is making you read these dissident voices but yourself.

 

Or, you could learn to ignore him.

 

Your Options ---> Profile ----> Manage Ignored Users.

 

Nobody is making you read his anti-dissident voice but yourself.

 

That's 3 layers of self-recursion, anyone up for a 4th?

 

Interestingly, this is one of those situations where the first person to point out the possibility of leaving is acceptable, but the second person who piles on violates the rules of discussion, since that opens up this chain of infinite recursion. Few other examples like this in discursive logic, all similar in that respect. XKCD did a comic on it a few months back.

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Guest jrhairychest

There seems to be some kind of a common theme here, as if this is the thread for college students to bask in their superiority over Jagex, whose employees have all been growing ever dimmer with every year they are separated from their university of record, as well as rolling around in piles of sleaze and money. Carry on, then.

 

That's just the thing, though. I know they have a marketing team at this point. The New York Times did a similar thing with this when making their e-edition of the paper subscription-based. However, they had many prepared statements as well as a huge advertising campaign ready for it. I just really don't know what put it in that Jagex teams' heads that after all of this awesome publicity they've been getting with Runefest and killing bots, that they'd put a buzz-kill like this in several weeks after good stuff with nothing content-wise to make amends for what the F2P lost.

 

Lol I did laugh at Dels response here. I think we've had all the superior expert students over the last few months posting on here about Jagex being thick. Programmers, business, web design and games designers spring to mind.

 

While I agree with that stance for those who say that Jagex ruined the game with the update and they are quitting forever (all the doomsayers after every update), I also think that people should be able to vent about something they don't agree with. Did I find the update unfair to f2p? Yes. Am I going to quit over it? No, because it would be silly to quit over something that doesn't kill my joy in the game.

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head in your first sentence. I agree with the rest in part, pretty much for the reasons I've outlined on this thread.

 

Or you could just learn to ignore them:

 

Your Options ---> Profile ---> Manage Ignored Users

 

Nobody is making you read these dissident voices but yourself.

Problems don't get solved by ignoring them. I prefer to give people a chance and take a more considered approach. It's up to them how they respond. If players aren't challenged about their attitude and the culture of F2P's expectations then nothing's going to change.

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There's a huge difference between knowing your business through university and experiencing your business through day-to-day work. I'd back the latter--hence the marketing team--everyday of the week.

 

"My college tutor said they're wrong" isn't as solid as some people would like to believe.

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Guest jrhairychest

There's a huge difference between knowing your business through university and experiencing your business through day-to-day work. I'd back the latter--hence the marketing team--everyday of the week.

 

"My college tutor said they're wrong" isn't as solid as some people would like to believe.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

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Yes, but wait until the early-admission Ivy League acceptees start telling these old and tired college seniors how out of touch they are with both the RuneScape teen audience and the minutea of truly modern Iphone-driven game trends, with their ever-shifting nouveau internet morality and their ironic overseriousness.

 

Oh, how the trodden worm will turn!

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Yes, but wait until the early-admission Ivy League acceptees start telling these old and tired college seniors how out of touch they are with both the RuneScape teen audience and the minutea of truly modern Iphone-driven game trends, with their ever-shifting nouveau internet morality and their ironic overseriousness.

 

Oh, how the trodden worm will turn!

 

So my voice has been heard, after all. :-P

 

"My college tutor said they're wrong" isn't as solid as some people would like to believe.

 

Way to melt it down. Firstly, it's not just necessarily tutors, but professors who have had firsthand business experience too. Secondly, it's not just because they said they're wrong - it's because they explain what is wrong about it. Thirdly, why do you think we learn applications in school in the first place? To give us something to do or to prepare us for not making career-threatening mistakes?

 

I understand the field will have a lot more complexities and anomalies than any business simulation could ever prepare you for, but this case is actually rather plain and simple: Jagex is being cheaper than usual and this severely effects how their customers and potential customers see them as a *cough* gaming company. And let us not forget that people usually played F2P before they made the decision to convert to P2P. But for now, I'm just gonna wait and see what happens when Jagex takes out a big reason why F2P played their game.

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It's funny when people quote you and reply to you despite not understanding a single word that you said. I think that's another trick they learn in college :) Even funnier when those hypothetical example 'people' said the day before they'd never reply to you again ;) Good thing I like a nice laugh.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think its funny this convo is still going on.

 

Membership has increased so it was a successful move. Your pure f2p hurt feelings don't matter much in the real world.

 

You're saying it was a success because there has been an influx of new members right around the time when school gets out? You know, there was also a large decrease in activity immediately after the update, but we'll be here all day if we just point at the rates every time it moves. Runescape is one of those games people like to keep coming back to, so I wouldn't think the long-term effects would kick in until about a year when most of the player base finds out the game has been downgraded. My guess is just that Runescape will deteriorate faster than it already was, but how can you really measure that?

 

Plus I'll still stand by it being a sleazy, underhanded business tactic whether it helps Runescape or not - because it's just that pathetic.

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