This is a public service announcement: Leaving D bones/hides on the floor while slaying is inefficient.

[Cheat]

Of course everyone has free choice doesn't mean the choice you make isn't idiotic.

[essiw]

How, how about, I play however the hell I want. If that means leaving my bones behind, WHO CARES.

 

tl;dr version: You're an idiot if you leave your bones because it's not worth your time to bank unless you honestly earn more than 11m/hour. Blue drags are an awesome task. Do them.

 

?????????????????????????????????????????????

Who are you to tell others it is not worth their time? If I say runescape is not worth your time because you could do other things in real life does that give me the right to say that you are an idiot because runescape is not worth your time? No, you play runescape for FUN, if others find it more fun (or any other reason) to leave the bones, why not let them, they are not hurting you, are they?

[Quyneax]

For bonecruncher, one dragon bone is worth about 1/1200th of an hour in altaring pre-yak, and about 1250 gp in xp (if dragon bones are ~4400 gp each as they are now). So for 42 bones crunchered (1 minute banking) you could instead save 126 seconds (let's call that two minutes) and also save about 52800 gp. It will allow you to bank hides otherwise left behind, worth about 2700 gp each.

 

Another possibility is to bank both bones and hides, allowing 2 minutes banking time for an extra trip.

 

So as troacctid put it nicely, but expanded:

Scenario				Slayer xp	Money		Time spent			  Value of time
Not banking anything			4519,2 xp	     0 gp	y     minutes			  x < -      ∞ gp/hr
Banking bones				4519,2 xp	184800 gp	y + 1 minutes			  x <  1116000 gp/hr
Banking hides				4519,2 xp	113400 gp	y + 1 minutes			  x < -3168000 gp/hr
Banking bones and hides			4519,2 xp	298200 gp	y + 2 minutes			  x <  3960000 gp/hr
Bonecruncher				4519,2 xp	 52800 gp	y - 1 minutes			  x >  6804000 gp/hr
Bonecruncher and banking hides		4519,2 xp	166200 gp	y     minutes		3960000 < x <  6804000 gp/hr

Assuming you value prayer xp as if altaring dragon bones and not valuing the time taken to get a bonecruncher (basically, you already have one regardless, you can just choose to leave it behind). Ignoring yak, alchemy and make leather. It's all compared to bonecruncher + banking hides.

 

Basically: if you value your time at 1116000 gp/hr or less you should bank bones instead of crunchering and banking hides, but if you value your time that low you also value your time below 3960000 gp/hr so you should bank both hides and bones. You should only bank hides or not at all if you value your time negatively (aka never). You should not bank hides (but bonecrunch) if you value your time at 6804000 gp/hr or more. If you value your gp between 3960000 gp/hr and 6804000 gp/hr you should bank hides and crunch bones.

 

I would also like to contest the assertion that blue dragons are an awesome task. Given that they only award about half the slayer + effigy xp/hr of the best task list, you would have to value your time fairly low to bank so often.

 

@ Tui: just bonecruncher suits 8m/hr.

[Aten]

bonecrusher

[Saradomin_Mage]

I'll never be able to do another Blue Dragon Task without coming back to this topic :(

[AHappySeeker]

Can't help but feel you've mixed up your method of calculating TVC. I base time value on time spent actuating profit, such as a 5 minute herb run of 1m being worth 12m/hour in terms of time value if the other 55 mins of the hour are spent exclusively doing non-moneymaking activities such as training agility or DG.

[Assume Nothing]

It's their choice to be rational or not. Why should they pick up dbones if they don't want to?

[Stev]

tl;dr version: You're an idiot if you leave your bones because it's not worth your time to bank unless you honestly earn more than 11m/hour. Blue drags are an awesome task. Do them.

I wouldn't get out of bed for 500M. -.-

[Cheefoo]

Efficiency? Nah, I'm just lazy.

 

I usually pick them up and bury them while fighting another dragon. Sure that isn't really "lazy", I just don't like running back and forth to a bank. I'm seriously considering getting a bonecrusher for these tasks. Yes, I go far out of my way in one direction to be as lazy as possible in another.

[Jadinko]

Hey seeker, i leave all my bones and hides. My bank value is more than i would ever need. Work that out for me plox.

[Assume Nothing]

tl;dr version: You're an idiot if you leave your bones because it's not worth your time to bank unless you honestly earn more than 11m/hour. Blue drags are an awesome task. Do them.

I wouldn't get out of bed for 500M. -.-

You'd be in a coma if you earned my income. Is it possible to build with a relatively small bank, like 300m or so?

[Troll Bomber]

I'm going to go off on a tangent that will probably make little to no sense to some of those that have posted on here, but bear with me for a second, and consider this spectacular theory that I have come up with all by myself:

 

Those that want to pick up their bones & hides, tend to pick up their bones & hides.

 

Those that don't want to pick up their bones & hides, tend to not pick up their bones & hides.

 

I know my theory is a bit mind blowing, but I think it just might be true.

[AHappySeeker]

Hey seeker, i leave all my bones and hides. My bank value is more than i would ever need. Work that out for me plox.

 

 

You need to l2read.

 

Nobody's saying "be efficient or I'll flay u alive".

 

People are saying "If you're trying to be efficient and you're not doing this, you're failing at being efficient".

 

If whatever you're saying about your bank value is meant to have any substance, then grats. You fall outside the explicitly laid out condition under which doing this is efficient.

[Lose No Hope]

I'm going to go off on a tangent that will probably make little to no sense to some of those that have posted on here, but bear with me for a second, and consider this spectacular theory that I have come up with all by myself:

 

Those that want to pick up their bones & hides, tend to pick up their bones & hides.

 

Those that don't want to pick up their bones & hides, tend to not pick up their bones & hides.

 

I know my theory is a bit mind blowing, but I think it just might be true.

That's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Seeker is pointing out how much of a loss it is to not pick up the bones and hides.

[enfield]

^

This is not a discussion. This is just seeker's inane rant. he's not really pointing anything in a constructive way, or in a way that will be worthwhile to many people.

 

just because what people tend to do (not pick up hides/bones - and i don't even now how many people tend to do this, but i suspect it's not as many as seeker presumes) doesn't make sense when you evaluate things in terms of gp/h, doesn't mean people are not doing the optimal things for themselves, given their goals.

 

What it does means is that your analysis is limited, and that there are other variables besides gp/h which are influencing people's actions. if you think g/h is the best value to have, then maybe argue that, but different things satisfy different people, so I don't know how successful that would be.

[Troacctid]

^

This is not a discussion. This is just seeker's inane rant. he's not really pointing anything in a constructive way, or in a way that will be worthwhile to many people.

 

just because what people tend to do (not pick up hides/bones - and i don't even now how many people tend to do this, but i suspect it's not as many as seeker presumes) doesn't make sense when you evaluate things in terms of gp/h, doesn't mean people are not doing the optimal things for themselves, given their goals.

 

What it does means is that your analysis is limited, and that there are other variables besides gp/h which are influencing people's actions. if you think g/h is the best value to have, then maybe argue that, but different things satisfy different people, so I don't know how successful that would be.

Drawing your attention to the thread title: "Public Service Announcement"

 

Seeker is well aware that there are a lot of people who don't pick up bones. The purpose of this thread is, primarily, to inform them about what they're really giving up. (Secondarily, it's to persuade them with data to change their behavior, but informing comes first.) Once they know, they can make educated decisions about what they want to do. If they then decide to continue leaving the bones on the ground, well, then we're all sincerely happy for them--at least now, they aren't making that decision from a position of ignorance.

 

Maybe you already know about the opportunity costs involved. Maybe you've done the calculations on your own ages ago, and you're already well aware of what you're giving up. Maybe you've made a conscious decision about your priorities and you've concluded that caring about that profit would make the game less fun for you. If that's true, well...this isn't something you need to hear. You can safely ignore it because it's not directed at you. Just like if you've acknowledged and accepted the health risks and side effects that come with smoking cigarettes, you don't need to re-read the Surgeon General's Warning on every pack.

 

But there are plenty of people out there who don't already know this stuff, and this is for them.

 

Or maybe you're the type of player who's like, "Who cares? I don't give a damn about what's more efficient. I'll do what I want because that's what I want to do." And when a fellow slayer comes up to you and says "Hey, how come you're not picking up the bones and hides?" you don't say "Because it's faster xp." You say "Because I don't feel like picking them up. You got a problem with that, buddy?" And that's fine too. It means you're self-aware. You've chosen the path of rational ignorance and made a heuristic decision based on what you think is more fun. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

And if that's the type of player you are, then don't get hung up on it. This is free information. You can take it or leave it, and we won't judge you either way.

[Sir_Squab]

I give up. There are keyboard marks on my forehead now. Do you people not understand anything about rational decision-making?

 

Your argument is based on people being rational, exhibiting rational behavior, and modifying their actions based on rational debates and arguments.

 

Almost everything I've seen in life says otherwise. As best as I can tell, being logical and rational goes against human nature.

 

You missed the fact that I don't give a shit about people not picking up drops for other reasons, though not from that post. I only care if they leave them because they think it's more financially efficient for them to do so.

 

If someone says they're doing it to be more efficient, they're probably lying to you and themselves tbh. They don't pick up the bones because they can't be bothered, then try to come up with a rational reason when asked why.

[Leaf]

Your argument is only valid if:

 

1. You do Blue dragon tasks.

2. You kill Blues in Kuradal's dungeon.

 

 

tl;dr version: You're an idiot if you leave your bones because it's not worth your time to bank unless you honestly earn more than 11m/hour. Blue drags are an awesome task. Do them.

Flawed logic here. Based on what you said in your post, it would be more correct to say, "If you do Blue dragons in Kura's dungeon, Bank the drops." It doesn't make Blues an "awesome task."

In Kuradal's dungeon, Blue dragons are pretty slow XP, due to them having fairly low HP, can't cannon, and can't use titan. Furthermore, a better option for XP does exist: Taverly resource dungeon with cannon.

 

The thing about 11m/h applies ONLY IF the only variable you are considering is whether to bank or not. Just because the difference between banking and not banking is 11m/h, that doesn't make Blue dragons a good task.

 

 

In short, if you kill Blues in Kuradal's dungeon, bank the drops. If not, this thread does not apply to you at all.

[AHappySeeker]

Your argument is only valid if:

 

1. You do Blue dragon tasks.

2. You kill Blues in Kuradal's dungeon.

 

etc etc

 

You're right, actually. I was possibly jumping to conclusions a bit quickly when I stated that they're an awesome task but it's still quite likely to be true for a lot of players with <6m time value. I'll need KPH with/without cannon figures to work that out though.

[Quyneax]

I removed much of the discussion on this topic. Apologies to those who posted maturely. There was, in my view, no way that this discussion could be salvaged.

 

Let me be clear on a few counts:

1) It's not nice to call people idiots. If you feel insulted, report the post.

2) It is not up to any user to determine whether a thread is worth posting. If you feel a thread should be removed, report it.

3) "Not worth it" is used as an objective term in the OP. It can also be used subjectively. If you do not understand which is used in a particular post, try asking first. I'd almost think you were trolling if you got it wrong.

 

Yes, there are reasons besides efficiency to leave dragon bones on the ground. That's not what the topic is about. We can stop discussing it now.

[AHappySeeker]

Q, do you have KPH figures?

[enfield]

No one would say this thread wasn't worth posting. In fact, In my first reply to this thread I said I appreciated happyseeker's self expression , which i do.

 

I was only critical about the purported intended purpose that happyseeker claimed this thread had. It seemed like he rationalized an answer, when the truth seemed more likely to be it was a just a rant about an inefficient behavior that happens to be justified for individuals (i.e no one is really trying to maximize efficiency by leaving stuff like Sir_Squab points out; rather, they have other (unquantifiable) reasons for doing so).

 

Why does this matter to me at all? I find it sad for everyone when people pass off false intentions for what they do.

 

anyway, I thought the discussion last night turned out productive for everyone in the end. but it's understandable that it's gone.

[AHappySeeker]

If you think most people understand what they're doing and the concepts laid out here, you're dead wrong. Funnily enough, even you demonstrated earlier in this thread that you don't understand the concepts explained here, even after Troacctid laid it out for you.

 

Gtfo of my thread with your crap please.

[Sir_Squab]

If you think most people understand what they're doing and the concepts laid out here, you're dead wrong. Funnily enough, even you demonstrated earlier in this thread that you don't understand the concepts explained here, even after Troacctid laid it out for you.

 

Gtfo of my thread with your crap please.

 

If you think most people CARE about what they're doing and the concepts laid out here, you're dead wrong.

 

Furthermore, your angry insults aren't helping your cause. They also seem indicative of someone who, instead of using rational arguments to make a point, must resort to angry name-calling. If this is supposed to be a rational, logical thread about rational, logical reasons for altering your behavior, then I suggest you stick to only rational, logical content in your posts. "Gtfo of my thread with your crap please." is in no conceivable way part of a rational, logical argument.

[enfield]

I do understand the concepts, and I understand it might be hard for you to accept that. And most people who leave the bones/hides on the floor understand them too. As I said before - most people are aware of what they are giving up by not picking up all the bones/hides on a task (that they are forfeiting, say, 1m).

 

They also are aware of what they would have to do for that 1m - that it would only take 6mins of concentrated time to achieve it, but that it would change the way they have to play for that whole hour (which is where the subjective values of things such as convenience are overwhelming).

 

 

Quyneax,

 

I only repeat myself as I have done above to clarify to happyseeker what I do understand.