Tip.It Times - 20th November 2011

[ineedcash12]

The names are general, runescape has general skill names, general things can be copied, like names.

The names will prob be changed as its being developed.

The boring Grinding is not being copied.

 

The gameplay in every RPG overlaps at some point, RS has good aspects at times, and it has really bad ones at other times, we are removing the bad ones and making them better in many ways.

 

The only things thats remotley the same would be skills, but how they are trained, in new ways, that are interactive, is defenitly not. The names could change at anytime, and we have already changed probaly 5 or 10 of them.

 

Vortex is a combination of RS, Elder Scolls, Draken, + 4 other RPG's.

 

And, every game starts somewhere, we technicaly started about a week and a half ago(Took a month to get the license), but most of what is you don't see is already done on paper. We have to find ways to make the stuff better, then balance, then decide how to implement it. So before anyone starts on what isn't there, maybe everyone should atleast post what you would like to see in the game, and gain your voice.

[strilmus]

Well, I suggest you try to RENAME the skills at least. Maybe find a good writer to punch up your ideas. It can help a lot to articulate your goals in a more professional style, plus add some credibility.

 

As for player suggestions, while it is good to have input, you should have a very strong framework and theme to use in the first place. Without that kind of direction, you just end up making a clone of some other game. To clarify, you should have players help SHAPE the game, but not DESIGN the actual game. Then you'd be kind of lazy. It's like, "hey, make my game systems for me". Of course, a lot of people would love to jump on that ship, but then ideas clash and people can't actually agree on anything, and with no sort of experience in the matter, they are likely to make glaring holes in the system. Which is why you need the goals in the first place.

 

Anyway.

 

Right now we're at this point where we need to know if RS could be salvaged, but until then, I can wait somewhere else far from this mess.

[pal2002]

O god have exam in 8 hours why am I procrastinating so much...

 

In other news, great articles.

 

Back to cramming.

[ineedcash12]

Well, I suggest you try to RENAME the skills at least. Maybe find a good writer to punch up your ideas. It can help a lot to articulate your goals in a more professional style, plus add some credibility.

 

As for player suggestions, while it is good to have input, you should have a very strong framework and theme to use in the first place. Without that kind of direction, you just end up making a clone of some other game. To clarify, you should have players help SHAPE the game, but not DESIGN the actual game. Then you'd be kind of lazy. It's like, "hey, make my game systems for me". Of course, a lot of people would love to jump on that ship, but then ideas clash and people can't actually agree on anything, and with no sort of experience in the matter, they are likely to make glaring holes in the system. Which is why you need the goals in the first place.

 

Anyway.

 

Right now we're at this point where we need to know if RS could be salvaged, but until then, I can wait somewhere else far from this mess.

 

 

You seem to be pretty good with wording stuff yourself. I also would like to let you know I have a disability with written expression and my wording at times can be jumbled or is not always written the best way. If you would like to help by becoming a writter, just email me at the email listed in the jobs section and I will give you the powers to do so. =]

 

As for the framework, if you mean the forums? that's because those are 4 days old if that, and I've spent 25 hours in the last 4 days writing ways to make the game fun and figure out stuff. I prob spent 30 hours in the past week playing games, researching ways to implement stuff also.

 

The basic ideas for skills are ready for the basic skills, woodcutting, combat(once I figure out a sliding formula), fishing, cooking, agility, thieving, sneaking, hunting.

 

As for the skill names, I'm open for suggestions. =]

[strilmus]

For the sake of preserving this thread's remaining integrity, I'll just refer to your forums for further conversation.

 

on a lighter note, I would have thought that you would note that the teleport amulet to the tower and the bank located within being two more advantages added to phoenix feather collection, but I guess those were kind of obvious already, right

[ineedcash12]

Forums, or sending an email work. =]

[Youmu]

Absolutely agree with See's article, infact this is one of the main reasons why I have quit aswell.

 

Runescape's free game used to get me hooked in the past 3 years, but with all the recent shit, I don't feel inclined to play as much anymore. Then hiscores are becoming a P2P-only feature.

 

Dear god. I hope Jagex goes bankrupt within the next year.

[TwistedPower]

I would just like to talk about the Goodbye Runescape article, in particular certain quotes pointed out by the author.

 

I think it is important to talk about the degree in which something is stated and how people see it and how it is meant.

 

For instance this was quoted in the article "If you can't enjoy the free game in its own right then we're not doing our jobs properly".

 

This line only indicated that the free game should be fun, not exactly "how" fun it should be and for whom it should be fun for.

 

This line does NOT state "The free game should be as enjoyable as the paid game." For if it did, then why pay?

 

This line also does NOT state its target market of gamers.

 

If the free game was as enjoyable as the paid game then why would you pay for something that is not better?

 

The free version is only targeted towards newer players and is not meant, (and in my opinion) should not be meant for more experienced players. There should be a point where you basically "graduate" from F2P and move into P2P.

 

This view allows for Jagex to cater to different people. When they update the free game it is not to give more content, but to make it easier for a person to get into the game itself. The new updates are for members and each new update should make free players want to move to P2P. This is what Jagex is doing and it is smart. Free vs. Paid is really a way to filter different types of players into different settings. Obviously the more things that come out for members the less appealing free to play becomes, BUT this is only to people who have played the game a long time already. The free version should never get too big that it feels that it is its own game because then it no longer functions and the transition into the full version that is P2P.

 

 

For new players, the free version of the game is fun and enjoyable. I know this as I have recently brought in many new players who play the free version and find it fun and challenging. The free is probably not fun for higher lvl and more experienced played. It is not designed to be this way.

 

If you try and look at F2P as its own sort of mini version of RS then you will find it lacking and rightly so. It is NOT designed to be that way. It is sort of like the first part of a game, like WoW classic, and then P2P is a bunch of expansions.

 

I'm sure many people want the free version of Runescape to have value to an "end game" type play but that goes against its design. Removing high scores is just one of many steps Im sure Jagex will take to move free to play in this direction. Their goal is to get you to want to P2P. I do not see how that is bad. Should Jagex want you to never want to play as a member or at some point only play the free version? That makes no sense.

 

If you want to talk about community presence in F2P I do not see how the high score list even relates. Most really high level players rarely interact with the new players anyways. New player mostly make friends with people their skill level. The new character with skill in the 40's doesn't really hang out with the person with half his skills 90+.

 

Nobody likes to have things they once got for free taken away from them or all of a sudden making them pay for it. But times change, things gain value, and when things gain a value you do not give it away for free if your goal is to make money. If and free players stop playing I don't think it will phase Jagex to much, you already arent paying, what did they lose that they can't make back? For every single person who loses out on the high score list will be replaced by a new person who will be very happy that jagex did what it did. So the only people who lose are the people who quit no longer have fun playing.

[Formerly_Deathknell]

Absolutely agree with See's article, infact this is one of the main reasons why I have quit aswell.

 

Runescape's free game used to get me hooked in the past 3 years, but with all the recent shit, I don't feel inclined to play as much anymore. Then hiscores are becoming a P2P-only feature.

 

Dear god. I hope Jagex goes bankrupt within the next year.

 

No, just seriously need a change in leadership. Boot out MMG. He's been terrible in my opinion. The problem through all of this is that Jagex has always been, still is, and very likely will be very secretive about everything. It's one thing about future content, I get that. But the rest, it's always very hidden. Never any idea what's going on. I hate that. <_<

 

From time to time they let you in on something or explain something, but that's usually after 6 months of people asking them about something before they finally talk about it. Their communication is a joke.

[Kaida23]

First of all, welcome to TIF TwistedPower. :)

 

Goodbye, RuneScape wasn't trying to say that the free game should be as enjoyable as the paid game, no one is saying that, it would be ludicrous. But was saying that Jagex needs to realize that while the free game may not bring in as much as the paid game (and it does bring in revenue, ads brought in over 2 million pounds in 2010) it still needs to be taken care of as it's people's first impression of the game. If you were a new player and the first thing anyone said to you was how awful the game was, you'd probably not come back. If you played the game for a bit and found it to be dull and outdated, you'd probably not come back.

 

And where are new players going to come from? Recommendations from current players? Online ads? Reviews? If the current players and reviews are all going on about what Jagex is doing wrong with the game, you'd probably never come to RS in the first place.

 

The free game is the first impression of RS. If it's dull, outdated and just flat out boring, then no one is going to stick around long enough to become a member. While the high level F2P community would love to have regular updates and the latest and greatest items/quests, they realize that it's not realistic. This isn't about F2P whining that they didn't get something, this is about taking away a feature that has been in place since the game's inception.

 

Removing the free players from the hiscores is going to further drive apart the already splintered RS community - a divide that has existed since P2P was first introduced. Fortunately, it seems that many current members are also upset over what a large portion of the player base sees as a bad decision.

[strilmus]

Forget people saying it's bad, there's just gonna be nobody around to ask...

 

Who's gonna play a multiplayer game with nobody to talk to?

 

for christ's sake we haven't even been told WHY they're doing this, or how it's going to improve anything besides a vague "we want it to reflect on active players" and that doesn't even explain the removal of f2p boards

 

it's just a leaderboard, there are free sites which show leaderboards and they're not tanking in finances, exactly what does it mean for their bottom line...

 

and why isn't this solved by the ranking system anyway

[deskjethp]

Here's how I see it breaking down:

 

RSO - Oldschool RSC - Start - early 2002

RSC - 2002 - RS2

RS2 - 2004 - early/mid 2007

RS2.5 - early mid 2007 - Jan 3, 2008 (~September, bots, wild, trade)

RS3 - Jan 3 2008 - early 2011 (no trade)

RS4 - early 2011 - October 2011 (bots, trade)

RS5 - October 2011+ (fewer bots, hiscore fail)

[NukeMarine]

Here's how I see it breaking down:

 

RSO - Oldschool RSC - Start - early 2002

RSC - 2002 - RS2

RS2 - 2004 - early/mid 2007

RS2.5 - early mid 2007 - Jan 3, 2008 (~September, bots, wild, trade)

RS3 - Jan 3 2008 - early 2011 (no trade)

RS4 - early 2011 - October 2011 (bots, trade)

RS5 - October 2011+ (fewer bots, hiscore fail)

Should put RS HD update in there (date?). That was a very significant change.

[Formerly_Deathknell]

Here's how I see it breaking down:

 

RSO - Oldschool RSC - Start - early 2002

RSC - 2002 - RS2

RS2 - 2004 - early/mid 2007

RS2.5 - early mid 2007 - Jan 3, 2008 (~September, bots, wild, trade)

RS3 - Jan 3 2008 - early 2011 (no trade)

RS4 - early 2011 - October 2011 (bots, trade)

RS5 - October 2011+ (fewer bots, hiscore fail)

Should put RS HD update in there (date?). That was a very significant change.

 

You mean the mode that's great for taking pictures, but otherwise practically unplayable for most people due to lag issues? :mellow:

[Guest jrhairychest]

First of all, welcome to TIF TwistedPower. :)

 

Goodbye, RuneScape wasn't trying to say that the free game should be as enjoyable as the paid game, no one is saying that, it would be ludicrous. But was saying that Jagex needs to realize that while the free game may not bring in as much as the paid game (and it does bring in revenue, ads brought in over 2 million pounds in 2010) it still needs to be taken care of as it's people's first impression of the game. If you were a new player and the first thing anyone said to you was how awful the game was, you'd probably not come back. If you played the game for a bit and found it to be dull and outdated, you'd probably not come back.

 

And where are new players going to come from? Recommendations from current players? Online ads? Reviews? If the current players and reviews are all going on about what Jagex is doing wrong with the game, you'd probably never come to RS in the first place.

 

The free game is the first impression of RS. If it's dull, outdated and just flat out boring, then no one is going to stick around long enough to become a member. While the high level F2P community would love to have regular updates and the latest and greatest items/quests, they realize that it's not realistic. This isn't about F2P whining that they didn't get something, this is about taking away a feature that has been in place since the game's inception.

 

Removing the free players from the hiscores is going to further drive apart the already splintered RS community - a divide that has existed since P2P was first introduced. Fortunately, it seems that many current members are also upset over what a large portion of the player base sees as a bad decision.

 

All of a sudden the game's dull and boring? New players won't come because they took away a feature high level F2Pers wanted to keep? Actually you could be right since there's guys like you around who at the moment are continually bad mouthing the game and forgotten everything you've had over the *years* of free gameplay. If they gave you something you did like you'd be kissing their backsides and saying how great the game and Jagex were.

[TwistedPower]

Hi Kaida23 and thank for the welcome :-D

 

 

I would agree that the point of the article was not to say that free play should = pay play, but it was more of the fact that players who have played RS for a while are the only people who would understand how outdated the free version is. If anything I believe that Jagex wants the free game to feel outdated to the more experienced players so that some players will feel that they need to move to P2P RS.

 

I have recently invited a friend to RS and she has been overwhelmed by the amount of things she had to do and learn. It is her first online game. She is having the time of her life getting to level 30 (hehe lvl 30 when she told me and was bouncing off the walls about a lvl 30 skill I just had to laugh to myself). It took her weeks just to be able to negate the old parts of RS without using the map. She is not at the point where she wants to max her XP per hour, and now that I think about it she probably doesn't even know about the high score list. She keeps her chats to "friends" instead of all because she had experienced and encounter with the few people who do the whole "youre a noob" thing. That has not discouraged her from playing. She even got distracted by those new tree designs they have (she doesnt know what the old ones look like) and she actually plays with the music on...

 

My point is really that the last thing that she cares about is a high score list, when she is perfectly content with her highest skill being lvl 36 after almost of a month of play (she works a lot, but plays about an hour every day now). The things that pull people into this game are the simplicities that pulled people into the game when RS was classic. The things that keep us playing are not things you have when you first start or even in the first month. Free might need to be attractive, but I think that if members content keep people playing rather than free it will be better in the end. Free just needs to retain the simple things that get people INTO the game and if there is less later game materiel might even make it easier for new player to transition.

 

I do not see this change as a bad thing for the new players in the game, it seems more of a good thing for them. Also the update gives more people a reason to move to members even if they do not want to. While not everybody will do so to retain their scores, some people will move to being members. There are many people who will benefit from the change. It also gives hope to people who want those spots and feel they did not have a chance before with the saturation of the high score list.

 

I just was trying to point out in my last post to people who might have misunderstood what was quoted in the article because me and a long time friend on RS were debating about what the line I quoted before really meant.

[Kaida23]

First of all, welcome to TIF TwistedPower. :)

 

Goodbye, RuneScape wasn't trying to say that the free game should be as enjoyable as the paid game, no one is saying that, it would be ludicrous. But was saying that Jagex needs to realize that while the free game may not bring in as much as the paid game (and it does bring in revenue, ads brought in over 2 million pounds in 2010) it still needs to be taken care of as it's people's first impression of the game. If you were a new player and the first thing anyone said to you was how awful the game was, you'd probably not come back. If you played the game for a bit and found it to be dull and outdated, you'd probably not come back.

 

And where are new players going to come from? Recommendations from current players? Online ads? Reviews? If the current players and reviews are all going on about what Jagex is doing wrong with the game, you'd probably never come to RS in the first place.

 

The free game is the first impression of RS. If it's dull, outdated and just flat out boring, then no one is going to stick around long enough to become a member. While the high level F2P community would love to have regular updates and the latest and greatest items/quests, they realize that it's not realistic. This isn't about F2P whining that they didn't get something, this is about taking away a feature that has been in place since the game's inception.

 

Removing the free players from the hiscores is going to further drive apart the already splintered RS community - a divide that has existed since P2P was first introduced. Fortunately, it seems that many current members are also upset over what a large portion of the player base sees as a bad decision.

 

All of a sudden the game's dull and boring? New players won't come because they took away a feature high level F2Pers wanted to keep? Actually you could be right since there's guys like you around who at the moment are continually bad mouthing the game and forgotten everything you've had over the *years* of free gameplay. If they gave you something you did like you'd be kissing their backsides and saying how great the game and Jagex were.

I didn't say the game was dull and boring, I said "If it's dull, outdated and just flat out boring, then no one is going to stick around long enough to become a member." I was merely continuing with the argument that Jagex needs to update the free game every so often to prevent that from happening.

 

And yes, I am being critical of Jagex right now because I'm not happy with what I perceive as a bad decision for the game as a whole, an opinion I'm not exactly alone on. But, I'm also more than willing to praise them for good updates and content, and have done so in the past. That's my right as a gamer and a member of this forum, to express my opinion the game and what the developers do to it.

[Erewhon2]

Hi Kaida23 and thank for the welcome :-D

 

 

I would agree that the point of the article was not to say that free play should = pay play, but it was more of the fact that players who have played RS for a while are the only people who would understand how outdated the free version is. If anything I believe that Jagex wants the free game to feel outdated to the more experienced players so that some players will feel that they need to move to P2P RS.

 

I have recently invited a friend to RS and she has been overwhelmed by the amount of things she had to do and learn. It is her first online game. She is having the time of her life getting to level 30 (hehe lvl 30 when she told me and was bouncing off the walls about a lvl 30 skill I just had to laugh to myself). It took her weeks just to be able to negate the old parts of RS without using the map. She is not at the point where she wants to max her XP per hour, and now that I think about it she probably doesn't even know about the high score list. She keeps her chats to "friends" instead of all because she had experienced and encounter with the few people who do the whole "youre a noob" thing. That has not discouraged her from playing. She even got distracted by those new tree designs they have (she doesnt know what the old ones look like) and she actually plays with the music on...

 

My point is really that the last thing that she cares about is a high score list, when she is perfectly content with her highest skill being lvl 36 after almost of a month of play (she works a lot, but plays about an hour every day now). The things that pull people into this game are the simplicities that pulled people into the game when RS was classic. The things that keep us playing are not things you have when you first start or even in the first month. Free might need to be attractive, but I think that if members content keep people playing rather than free it will be better in the end. Free just needs to retain the simple things that get people INTO the game and if there is less later game materiel might even make it easier for new player to transition.

 

Very nicely said, a point I have been trying to put across in this and other threads. The doom and gloom aspect is not something I have seen at all in the F2P, it appears busier than ever when I am there. As I stated previously, which supports your comments:

 

I play on a F2P account as well as my members account. I have been on F2P quite a lot since the bot busting because there have been so many more people to talk to and it's been fantastic to see so many new players. My experiences recently bear no relation to the sweeping statements the article makes and I dispute them. I will not make any reference to the 'high scores' as that has been done to death in another thread. But I'm sure most of these new players I have been talking to probably don't even know the high scores exist. I am delighted that the bot busting appears to have brought new players in, possibly through recommendations but also just as likely to also be from other advertising.

 

I think our direct experiences place a little more reality on the extreme responses there have been on Tip.it...including the article "Goodbye, Runescape" that basically declares the pending death of RS!

[Jonanananas]

On "If 2 became 3": Maybe you should have included the original reason why it's called runescape 2, as this was a complete engine rewrite. I see no reason to call this Runescape 3.

 

On the suggestion to add a 2006 Runescape...in theory it might sound good, but there are several huge downsides to this.

 

First of all, they don't have the code anymore. They would have to recode large parts of it, which obviously takes a lot of time.

 

Then there's the HUGE design decision of who you would want to let play it, and how you would deal with the levels. If you take away the levels, most players will play for a few hours to relive the "noob experience" and then quit because they don't want to relive the whole grind that got them to their current levels. Not everyone of course, but I bet it would be the majority.

If you let levels carry over, it essentially wouldn't be Runescape 2006 and I think it would be a very noticeable change. E.g, talk about bossing and such when everyone and their brother is maxed combat....with what bosses? The giant mole?

 

 

I can't imagine how this would be worth the time they would need to invest. It would take long to code, it would have to be supported by at least some Jmods and the popularity will quickly be declining after the first weeks.

 

 

On the article about f2p runescape: It sounds a bit like the article I'm currently writing on :unsure:

 

I fully agree that F2P has to remain an attractive game in order to make the whole of Runescape work. Not sure about the highscore changes though - I assumed it would be a hit for new players as well, as I checked the highscores quite regularly when I was a new player, but that might be my skewed personal view. I still don't think it was a wise move by Jagex but the harm is probably not as big as it seems to be.

 

Don't have any real comments on the third article. Yup, entertaining skilling methods would be great.

 

I'll read the fictional once it's complete :)

[Crocefisso]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my article. It was especially nice to see people picking out all the flaws in what was, frankly, more of a nostalgic reverie than a real suggestion - the implausibility of rewriting the code and lack of feasibility in particular. The very unique list that break the phases of RS down even further was also interesting, though I can't say I agree.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I didn't say the game was dull and boring, I said "If it's dull, outdated and just flat out boring, then no one is going to stick around long enough to become a member." I was merely continuing with the argument that Jagex needs to update the free game every so often to prevent that from happening.

 

And yes, I am being critical of Jagex right now because I'm not happy with what I perceive as a bad decision for the game as a whole, an opinion I'm not exactly alone on. But, I'm also more than willing to praise them for good updates and content, and have done so in the past. That's my right as a gamer and a member of this forum, to express my opinion the game and what the developers do to it.

The free game's had more updates in the last few years then it ever has. It's much better than it was. Interestingly it wasn't dull and outdated to keep you and many other F2Pers there for so long. Now you're claiming that it could go this way. Let's get real. It's sour grapes on your part because you don't like your high scores being taken away. Don't start looking for issues that aren't there just because the high scores argument ran out of steam. Jagex implemented it anyway. It's done and dusted. Move on.

 

Be critical of Jagex by all means. Praise them by all means. You're entitled to your opinion the same as I'm entitled to disagree with it.

[AMdbMA]

I find the article "Grinding Doesn't have to Be" absolutely misguided. That is rather blunt, so there is an obligatory explanation coming... But I want to reiterate: absolutely misguided.

 

The article is based upon the assumption that it is a well understood, documented and relevant that "grinding," as it were, is a "problem." I should be more methodical and break that into its constituent assumptions... That there is an understood problem, a documented problem and a relevant problem, and these problems are all grinding.

 

I do not agree that the people to whom Jagex owes its fame find grinding to be a problem. I think the people that denounce the "grind" are the people with the most exposure to it, and that is by ratio almost certainly the people who possess reams of money, and those people are, by vast majority, people who acquired their fortune through illicit means: dice, horses, flowers, scamming, merching etc.

 

I do not agree that there is any compelling statistical information that leads to a conclusion on whether or not RuneScape is full of grinding. I nitpick on this level because, and please bear with me, because I completely disagree that a RuneScape player is required to do one bit of grinding except in rare cases, such as acquiring a completionist cape or the Slayer skill. I never grind, because grinding is garbage (with the exclusion of Slayer). If you raise every skill with an understanding that your total level is a cohesive accumulation of one skill, you realize that your character is comprised of integral units, namely skills, that work together in order to support one another. For example, I mine rocks, then runecraft natures, then superheat ores, then make bolts, then kill chickens, then fletch bolts, then mine gems, then craft gems, then fletch gems, then fletch gem tipped bolts, then runecraft for cosmics, then use magic to make powerful bolts, which can then be sold for profit or used for slayer, which would be by vehicle of ranged, which would raise hp, which would raise combat in conjunction with ranged, and even defence. I have hundreds of correlations like what I just said, and they provide a vehicle by which one can level much, much faster than the "pick one skill and do it until you suffocate" method.

 

I do not agree that the existence of grinding is relevant. I say this because, with the aforementioned disagreement over the "need" for grinding, I conclude that the existence of grinding is voluntary.

 

Completely ignoring the fact that Dungeoneering is a terribly implemented concept that could have been the source of much glory and eventually RuneScape's fulcrum, completely ignoring the fact that attempting to raise it for its own sake makes my eyes bleed and my soul weep, completely ignoring my bitter lamentations over the existence of quests and items which have Dungeoneering as a requirement, that I raised it entirely with penguins and tears and lamps; completely ignoring my bias, I must declare that a call for RuneScape to have full dungeoneering-style integration can and will, upon institution, the real death of RuneScape. If anything like that happened I would most likely quit or withdraw into Classic. I am not being dramatic. In fact, I am in the camp Crocefisso described, the nostalgia wherein one holds on because he likes what hasn't changed but intends to dismiss the thing entirely when what he likes vanishes. That is, I would dismiss RS entirely if the fundamental elements that built RS ceased to exist: free-roaming, free-will, free-market, conversation, humans with which I can interact, etc.

 

By changing RS into a dungeoneering-styled game you would socialize the core nature of it. Being a British game I must acknowledge that at substantial portion of its clientele will react favorably to socialism. I am not talking about the political structure of socialism but the fundamental ideology of socialism. The existence of a commune, or a ubiquitous mode of achievement by which all people garner accolade and material, is ugly, small, pathetic, and would infringe on the majesty of RS.

 

tl;dr, I utterly detest Alg's article with all due respect. I do not agree that grinding is an inevitability, but rather it is a choice borne of laziness and the GE. I do not agree that grinding must go.

 

-Adam Renzema, King of the Gielinor Agora

 

P.S., I am having an off-kilter day. Don't take me too terribly seriously.

[Alg]

I do not agree that the people to whom Jagex owes its fame find grinding to be a problem. I think the people that denounce the "grind" are the people with the most exposure to it, and that is by ratio almost certainly the people who possess reams of money, and those people are, by vast majority, people who acquired their fortune through illicit means: dice, horses, flowers, scamming, merching etc.

I actually have very little money (All of which was gained through fishing and the occasional slayer drop) and try to avoid grinding skills at all costs. :razz:

 

The point isn't to remove grinding, but to make it more enjoyable. You will still have to put in a lot of effort to get a 99, but you might not mind doing it, or you would get rewards beyond more training methods that work exactly the same way.

[Kaida23]

Welcome to TIF, AMdbMA. :) I'm glad to see people joining to express their opinions on the Times this week. :thumbup:

 

I think the people that denounce the "grind" are the people with the most exposure to it, and that is by ratio almost certainly the people who possess reams of money, and those people are, by vast majority, people who acquired their fortune through illicit means: dice, horses, flowers, scamming, merching etc.

I have to take exception to this, or at least part of it. Merchanting is not an illicit means of acquiring wealth in-game. As a member of a clan that teaches players how to profit by buying small(ish) amounts of heavily traded items, I myself have gained over 100M gp by doing exactly that - buying items on the G.E. for a few coins below average and selling them for a few coins above. The RuneScape version of day trading if you will.

 

Now, if by "merching" you were referring to the manipulation clans that conspire to drive prices up to fill the coffers of the clan leaders, then I heartily agree. I'd like to put those people in a sack and toss the sack in a river and hurl the river into space. :angry:

[AMdbMA]

Now, if by "merching" you were referring to the manipulation clans that conspire to drive prices up to fill the coffers of the clan leaders, then I heartily agree. I'd like to put those people in a sack and toss the sack in a river and hurl the river into space. :angry:

 

Indeed! And I thank you for your welcome. I'd not like people to think of what I posted originally as my comprehensive view but rather an abridged version. I have always meant to become a member here but for some reason just never did. Been a Tip.it Times reader for years now.