Jump to content
Due to the significant updates that have taken place, you now need to login with your display name or e-mail address, NOT your login name. ×
Due to posts that are 5+ years old being rebuilt, some of the older BBCodes may not have converted properly but still be in the post. Most posts are unaffected but some using what was our custom BBCode (like [spoiler]) will be a bit broken. ×
tripsis

Tip.It Times - 27th November 2011

Recommended Posts

Ugh the "F2P are people too" rant

 

Ya know, for my money, there's nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. Literally.

 

Now now, we don't need to throw that stale argument around. :shame: F2Pers have a say in the game too, even if they don't pay. And while the article may not feel like feedback to some of us, it hopefully will give some insight on what some of the community is feeling right now. In the end we're all players of the game.

 

Ya know, Id like to think that I am probably far more liberal than the average poster on these forums, although one never knows, but I am becoming literally sick and tired of listening to the welfare cases [bleep], beef and moan about the quality of the free hand outs that they are given -- time and again.

 

Theyve been given a free game to play. It costs them nothing. They put nothing into it financially. They play it "irregularly" or "only occasionally" or they make up various reasons to otherwise not pay for it or claim that its more challenging to play a limited free game than it is to play an unlimited full game. Yeah yeah.

 

Whatever their reason, they feel entitled to [bleep] about the game despite the fact that theyve contributed nothing to it financially. What they don't see is that theyve been leeching off the good intentions of the manufacturers for some 10 years now, and yet still cannot find it within themselves to pony up sufficient funds to pay for the service being provided to them.

 

No instead theyd rather sit pretty and let things be given to them because theyve sat there, forever, making demands like spoiled children, expecting the world to doll out another hand out to them because screaming for one has always worked for them in the past -- and it should continue to work for them now.

 

Frankly, I cannot understand why, ten years later, the free game even exists any more. It was originally offered through Newgrounds and other similar gaming sites as a means of getting attention for the game. Now that the game has been established, there is, IMO, no need for the free game whatsoever.

 

Its time that people realized that this isnt "Andrew Gowers Runescape" anymore. Its no longer his labour of love. Its no longer his free game.

 

Its a BUSINESS with employees and it is run by businessmen who have shareholders to answer to, and peoples jobs to pay for. The people playing the free game arent paying anyones salary. Theyre not adding to the coffers of the shareholders. What makes any of them think theyre more deserving of anything they've already received? What makes them think theyre so entitled?

 

Its fine for them to free-load off the labours of others, I suppose but be fricken grateful for what they're being given.

 

/rant


nyuseg.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fire article was easily the most pointless read I've ever endured on the Tip.It Times. No doubt this post will probably get removed since it's not positive constructive feedback, but I'm sure the BBC did not have to explain what football was for half of the Liverpool vs Manchester City match report on their website today, just for any reader to gain some comprehension of what they were talking about. As a reader I hold common sense, the real life ability to cook food, and an A-level in Chemistry, but feel free to lecture me and waste my patience nevertheless as if mankind hadn't discovered fire many thousands of years ago. A more useful analogy would be the cringeworthy difficulty the author had in creating his own suggestions for the skill, and extrapolating that to how Jagex must feel about the skill's presence in-game and its perpetual irrelevence to daily RuneScape life.

 

I'm sure they'd get rid of it tomorrow if they could. They've recently been more honest about content such as waterfiends and how they should never have been released in the first place. I've no doubt they'd give Firemaking similar treatment--'We hate it, but it's too late to go back now.'

 

Oh no, I don't want this post removed, cuz damn this is good stuff :D

 

It's fortunate that you speak from your own point of view, because however pointless the article might seem to you (someone who already has the knowledge) the sheer number of PM's and such that I get praising the article for including that bit of layman's science in there far outweigh the rant of one person and his sycophant... Not everyone knows what fire is, not by a long shot, and having obviously educated some people in it makes the article FAR from pointless...

 

Your analogy with football is also flawed, as no person that knows nothing about football is interested in Manchester or Liverpool, whereas someone who is interested in one of my editorials about a subject in RuneScape might not automatically know exactly what fire is... As I said, not everyone knows exactly what fire is, and I doubt I can get many A-level chemistry students to explain it in as much understandible details as I did, and no amount of common sense is going to help that...

 

The whole point of coming up with more suggestions to Firemaking is that NONE of those would involve Firemaking, hence the segway to Fire Usage... Yes, you're probably right that Jagex would change or remove it if they could, but as you said, removing is near impossible or somethign radical must be done... Oh wait, I already mentioned that in the article :)


Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s fine for them to free-load off the labours of others, I suppose – but be fricken grateful for what they're being given.

The majority of the F2P community are grateful for what we've been given. The problem is that now Jagex have taken away something that was always there, and that's a slippery slope. Once the powers that be realize that they can get away with taking things away, no matter how small or large, what's to stop them from taking away more?

 

What would happen to the game if they decide to limit non-members to the Lubridge/Draynor starting area only?


 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its fine for them to free-load off the labours of others, I suppose but be fricken grateful for what they're being given.

The majority of the F2P community are grateful for what we've been given. The problem is that now Jagex have taken away something that was always there, and that's a slippery slope. Once the powers that be realize that they can get away with taking things away, no matter how small or large, what's to stop them from taking away more?

 

What would happen to the game if they decide to limit non-members to the Lubridge/Draynor starting area only?

 

I don't think such a large scale operation can be justified, and nor will it benefit JaGex in any way shape or form. Then again, I can't see any valid justification for the removal of f2pers on hiscores either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh the "F2P are people too" rant

 

Ya know, for my money, there's nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. Literally.

 

Now now, we don't need to throw that stale argument around. :shame: F2Pers have a say in the game too, even if they don't pay. And while the article may not feel like feedback to some of us, it hopefully will give some insight on what some of the community is feeling right now. In the end we're all players of the game.

 

Ya know, Id like to think that I am probably far more liberal than the average poster on these forums, although one never knows, but I am becoming literally sick and tired of listening to the welfare cases [bleep], beef and moan about the quality of the free hand outs that they are given -- time and again.

 

Theyve been given a free game to play. It costs them nothing. They put nothing into it financially. They play it "irregularly" or "only occasionally" or they make up various reasons to otherwise not pay for it or claim that its more challenging to play a limited free game than it is to play an unlimited full game. Yeah yeah.

 

Whatever their reason, they feel entitled to [bleep] about the game despite the fact that theyve contributed nothing to it financially. What they don't see is that theyve been leeching off the good intentions of the manufacturers for some 10 years now, and yet still cannot find it within themselves to pony up sufficient funds to pay for the service being provided to them.

 

No instead theyd rather sit pretty and let things be given to them because theyve sat there, forever, making demands like spoiled children, expecting the world to doll out another hand out to them because screaming for one has always worked for them in the past -- and it should continue to work for them now.

 

Frankly, I cannot understand why, ten years later, the free game even exists any more. It was originally offered through Newgrounds and other similar gaming sites as a means of getting attention for the game. Now that the game has been established, there is, IMO, no need for the free game whatsoever.

 

Its time that people realized that this isnt "Andrew Gowers Runescape" anymore. Its no longer his labour of love. Its no longer his free game.

 

Its a BUSINESS with employees and it is run by businessmen who have shareholders to answer to, and peoples jobs to pay for. The people playing the free game arent paying anyones salary. Theyre not adding to the coffers of the shareholders. What makes any of them think theyre more deserving of anything they've already received? What makes them think theyre so entitled?

 

Its fine for them to free-load off the labours of others, I suppose but be fricken grateful for what they're being given.

 

/rant

 

I don't think F2Pers are entitled for anything. They can have their say, of course and personally, I am disappointed when they get messed with by Jagex, but I do agree that they don't deserve anything per se.

 

That said, I still think that F2P is far more important to Runescape than one might think, and that the current updates are detrimental to the whole game. Simply because I don't think that Runescape is a game that can quickly charm people into paying membership. It's a game that has hidden values, but on the outside it looks bleak. I, personally, don't think Runescape would be able to survive very long without f2p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One must always remember how vital F2P is to Jagex's marketing machine.



"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

- H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decline of P2P subscribers and the decline of people playing Runescape is not just Jagex' fault it's also because PC is losing to consoles. More people are playing on the consoles than he PC nowadays. Consoles have been out for a few years and there are alot of games that are much more popular on the consoles than PC. Then there are the games. Neither WoW nor Runescape can compete with Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim which is an rpg.

 

In conclusion, I think the PC vs Console has had a bigger impact on Runescape than Jagex' bad updates. If they shut down F2P altogether, they will lose their title as the #1 F2P game and they will also hurry up the process of killing Runescape which I think is inevitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firemaking is awesome.

Fire usage would be a nice addition.

Do-x should be toggleable.

"Sharp bifurcation" -> nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jrhairychest

Its fine for them to free-load off the labours of others, I suppose but be fricken grateful for what they're being given.

The majority of the F2P community are grateful for what we've been given. The problem is that now Jagex have taken away something that was always there, and that's a slippery slope. Once the powers that be realize that they can get away with taking things away, no matter how small or large, what's to stop them from taking away more?

 

What would happen to the game if they decide to limit non-members to the Lubridge/Draynor starting area only?

 

It's nice to see the free game appreciated by yourself and Bini (another post) but I disagree the majority of the permanent F2P community appreciate it.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with "getting away" with taking elements of the game. There is no getting away. It's their game, they can do pretty much what they want with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decline of P2P subscribers and the decline of people playing Runescape is not just Jagex' fault it's also because PC is losing to consoles. More people are playing on the consoles than he PC nowadays. Consoles have been out for a few years and there are alot of games that are much more popular on the consoles than PC. Then there are the games. Neither WoW nor Runescape can compete with Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim which is an rpg.

 

In conclusion, I think the PC vs Console has had a bigger impact on Runescape than Jagex' bad updates. If they shut down F2P altogether, they will lose their title as the #1 F2P game and they will also hurry up the process of killing Runescape which I think is inevitable.

I tried to think of a way to say that you're comparing apples and oranges but you might have a point. Online gaming has really gone into the mainstream in the last few years. Sure, the PC has been doing that for years, but consoles really popularized it (Presumably because it was made easy to play with friends, both near and close). It might also have something to do with a number of other MMO games either going free with microtransactions (As popularized by consoles and [bleeping] Zynga) or free for a certain point (As Runescape did and as WoW is currently doing). MMORPGs really lost their monopoly on online social gaming, which was more or less all Runescape had. So it's probably less about Runescape competing with Skyrim, but Runescape competing with Modern Warfare and Battlefield via Xbox Live/PSN.

 

That said, I haven't really played in the last week because of Skyrim so you may have a point there too. It's pretty much been gaming sweeps month. If they didn't delay ME3, you wouldn't see me here until maybe next July :razz:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One must always remember how vital F2P is to Jagex's marketing machine.

 

Is it still though. I always presumed the bots pretty much killed off f2p and new members were more referrals from other member.


Bings_Wife.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decline of P2P subscribers and the decline of people playing Runescape is not just Jagex' fault it's also because PC is losing to consoles. More people are playing on the consoles than he PC nowadays. Consoles have been out for a few years and there are alot of games that are much more popular on the consoles than PC. Then there are the games. Neither WoW nor Runescape can compete with Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim which is an rpg.

 

In conclusion, I think the PC vs Console has had a bigger impact on Runescape than Jagex' bad updates. If they shut down F2P altogether, they will lose their title as the #1 F2P game and they will also hurry up the process of killing Runescape which I think is inevitable.

I tried to think of a way to say that you're comparing apples and oranges but you might have a point. Online gaming has really gone into the mainstream in the last few years. Sure, the PC has been doing that for years, but consoles really popularized it (Presumably because it was made easy to play with friends, both near and close). It might also have something to do with a number of other MMO games either going free with microtransactions (As popularized by consoles and [bleeping] Zynga) or free for a certain point (As Runescape did and as WoW is currently doing). MMORPGs really lost their monopoly on online social gaming, which was more or less all Runescape had. So it's probably less about Runescape competing with Skyrim, but Runescape competing with Modern Warfare and Battlefield via Xbox Live/PSN.

 

That said, I haven't really played in the last week because of Skyrim so you may have a point there too. It's pretty much been gaming sweeps month. If they didn't delay ME3, you wouldn't see me here until maybe next July :razz:

The other part of the success of console games over PC games is that a console doesn't require regular upgrades in order to keep up. If you buy a game for your console you know it will work, but with a PC game you have to check all the system requirements and hope. Besides, and most of my friends barely know how to turn their computers on, let alone upgrade them. :P


 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other part of the success of console games over PC games is that a console doesn't require regular upgrades in order to keep up. If you buy a game for your console you know it will work, but with a PC game you have to check all the system requirements and hope. Besides, and most of my friends barely know how to turn their computers on, let alone upgrade them. :P

You could also spend quite a bit on a TV/home theatre, but that's good for more than just gaming. :razz:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

about "An Open Letter to Mr. Mark Gerhard"

 

apparently, a lot of people missed the significance of the way the clan fortress was introduced.

 

as a psychology student currently doing my phd, it was a fairly textbook example of applying psychological pressure using peer pressure.

 

peer pressure is usually something we try to avoid, as it can be quite destructive, as is the case here.

 

the points system introduced pressure to stay a member for longer. this was a clear psychological pressure to stay a member, in a complete break from the tradition of runescape.

 

if there had been some sort of policy announcement, declaring the free game being removed, this would fit nicely with a winding down of the free game.

 

instead, management got cross when people suggested that the free game was no longer world class.

 

it was pressure, but it still put the power in your hands, the paying member or non member.

 

the clan situation was much more underhanded and uses principles of psychology i expect of super villains, not world class games companies.

 

 

first, clans were introduced, and every effort was made to accommodate free members. jagex practically went out of their way to make sure free members were included.

 

after the praise had died down a bit, and everyone was settled into their clans, they introduced citadels.

 

perfectly good, and all above board.

 

oh, and by the way, they constantly degrade, and only paying members can do upkeep.

 

all free players in clans were effectively being made into dead weight. using up precious clan numbers, while unable to contribute to the major piece of clan content.

 

to maintain your citadel, you are forced to consider what all those free members in your clan really do, and are they worth it? as paying members, they could increase the upkeep of your citadel, and increase its quality.

 

as soon as someone runs out of pocket money, or needs to take a break for whatever reason, their part of the upkeep is lost, and the clan suffers.

 

if they had made citadels like houses, with non members able to contribute with gold, even though they could not visit since they were not members, there would be no problem. people could play as they could afford, without undue pressure.

 

if they allowed the non members to visit and do upkeep, they would demonstrate their support of free players, while bonding the clan as a whole.

 

instead, they added this subtle rift, tearing clans into two groups: members, who could upkeep, and non members who could not contribute at all.

 

this is an unfair use of psychology to weaken the non members game.

 

if they had announced that's what they were doing, that would be fine.

 

instead, they pretend to support non members, while using psychology to make the clans apply peer pressure.

 

do i stay a non member, and be unable to contribute to the clan? will i be kicked out of the clan? will there now be two clans, members and non members, slowly drifting apart?

 

this was what we in psychology technically call "a dick move"

 

i've been a paid member since i discovered i needed to be a member to get the cosmic talisman.

 

i've been a continuous member for about 5 years, whether i had time to play, or not, and i believed in the game and supported it wholeheartedly.

 

a couple of times, on a student scholarship, i have had my credit card denied, and re-established membership, as soon as my card was in balance again.

 

i had thought some decisions were good, some bad, some indifferent.

 

the new policy of shafting the free game, rather than just advertising the paid game is beyond mere meanness, or simply making a profit, and has moved into disreputable conduct.

 

i left the paid game voluntarily when citadels were added, with their twisted psychology, and i will not become a member again until the injustice has been rectified.

 

a simple, "we no longer have a free game" from management would be a simple solution, and seems to be what they want to do.

 

however, they still want to win awards for being the best free game.

 

they simply cannot have it both ways, and it is time for them to wake up to the fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on the subject of, "These are a Few of my Favorite Things"

 

you've read my mind :-D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL, you're asuming anyone actually uses the citadel for anything...

 

I'll be honest, I should've been way way way harsher in my article about citadels (see link in my sig how to find it, it's titled "All along their watchtower")


Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately, HYT has no problems with free players and all are welcome, member and non-member alike, but not every clan is so forgiving. I have to admit though, if non-members were allowed to contribute to the citadel upkeep I'd be more than happy to, be it through either monetary donation or simply resource gathering. Unfortunately, the increasingly not so subtle push to pay for membership is here to stay. I think we'll all either have to accept it, give in to it, or quit.


 

f2punitedfcbanner_zpsf83da077.png

THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the article dates after the hiscore update, I'm wondering why the author didn't specifically note that Jagex lost the top spot for the joystick awards to two other f2p games as proof, or has mentioned that the loss of the bots has brought Runescape's ranking as most popular f2p game below the numbers of those winners, which will most likely cause them to lose that record if they don't recover from it.

 

Also, I don't think people would miss waterfiends or firemaking IF they had something sufficiently good to replace that function, like an overhaul that makes their presence unnecessary that still provides joy to the childrens.

 

Just to be clear, I do not think they are capable as it is right now to provide that kind of thing reliably considering their track record on attempting to do similar things lately. They are unable to look forward when they are held back by the past, and cannot bring themselves to make true change, as they will eventually backpedal and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

gf ganodermic armor


8f14270694.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decline of P2P subscribers and the decline of people playing Runescape is not just Jagex' fault it's also because PC is losing to consoles. More people are playing on the consoles than he PC nowadays. Consoles have been out for a few years and there are alot of games that are much more popular on the consoles than PC. Then there are the games. Neither WoW nor Runescape can compete with Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim which is an rpg.

 

In conclusion, I think the PC vs Console has had a bigger impact on Runescape than Jagex' bad updates. If they shut down F2P altogether, they will lose their title as the #1 F2P game and they will also hurry up the process of killing Runescape which I think is inevitable.

Skyrim, while a fun single player experience, will never be played as long as a multiplayer game. Even now, people are getting bored of things to do, despite the vast reach of the game, simply because they have been able to search everything by now. There are only a few more DLC updates planned, and after that, it is up to the modders to make things interesting. Overall, it is a fundamentally different type of experience, so that isn't the real threat here. Hell, even consoles are slowing down, and if they don't step up their game like Steam has, PC may actually take back the market by pulling in an entirely different direction. Most of my game purchases over the past year have been largely indie titles from Steam. And that is what RS is REALLY competing against, in addition to other f2ps like League of Legends, since there are always more teams fighting to get attention, and cheap offerings to be had, especially during the latest slew of indie bundles.

 

It is also notable that the production of Skyrim comes from those with deep pockets, a love for borderline inane amounts of features and details, and the time that comes from having both deep pockets and no other sense of urgency regarding when they will ship, or that they will lose out on customers because they haven't been able to follow the trends of throwaway AAA games like CoD, allowing for a greater degree of polish, despite still digging through a massive pile of bugs mostly created by the fact that the game is simply too large to figure out how things will mesh together outside of dress rehearsal.


8f14270694.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the article dates after the hiscore update, I'm wondering why the author didn't specifically note that Jagex lost the top spot for the joystick awards to two other f2p games as proof, or has mentioned that the loss of the bots has brought Runescape's ranking as most popular f2p game below the numbers of those winners, which will most likely cause them to lose that record if they don't recover from it.

 

A common misconception - Most popular F2P game has nothing to do with the golden Joystick. It's a guinness world record, and only dependant on the number of free accounts(not sure if registered or active, too lazy to check)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it only counted registered accounts, then that record in general is a sham. Also, I wasn't referring to the awards in that sentence, although I probably should have clarified that.


8f14270694.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the Letter to Mark Gerhard, why is it signed from what seems to be all of the f2p players? I am a f2p, as well as p2p, player and do not agree with all that is stated in the letter. The end of the letter is a demand to choose, which leaves no options but what has been mentioned in the letter. A request for more f2p content and to reinstate some f2p content that has been removed would have been more appropriate. Diplomacy would probably go further with Jagex than outright demanding that Jagex does what, apparently, all f2p players have agreed upon. The letter should not have been sent implying all f2p players agree with it. Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.