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Oh cool a new item. How long till it degrades?


Powerfrog

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WHY?!

 

Why do all items now degrade into nothing or have an extremely costly upkeep? It's an awful system that really takes the sense of owning an item away from me. It's more like i'm renting it.

 

I'd much rather buy an item for 20m, use it for a few months and then sell it later for 17m.

Instead i buy that item for 3m and use it for a few months, spending 50m on repairs, then sell it for 2.5m. That's not right.

 

Chaotic rapier. Ok. I can partially understand this one, you screwed up your economy many years ago with the high alchemy spell and instead of admitting it's stupid and removing it from the game, you put these little money sinks into the game. Fine. I see dungeoneering as the ability to unlock the renting of this item, and i can pay a little money to use the best weapon in the game. And hell, those tokens have to go somewhere.

 

Torva platelegs. Well. Similar to the above but i'm not really sure why these need to also have this drain. as if the straight up price wasn't enough. Oh well, i guess i can pay money for the best armour in the game. Although it now costs me MORE than i make at certain places just on equipment recharge rates, and even when it's profitable, the cost will always cut a huge chunk out of the gain. So i own the best armour in the game, but it's only worth using over worse armour in very few places.

 

Goliath gloves. OH COME ON! I've just killed 500 bosses (Or the same 25 bosses, 20 times each), most of which took me 5 seconds to kill and 30 seconds to watch the same repetitive boring cutscene. And now i own these gloves, i can use them for an hour or two before having to kill another 5 bosses? WHY?! Are they made out of boss corpses? This doesn't even help the economy, this just brings me annoyance. I know 5 bosses is not a lot. BUT WHY?!?

 

Ganodermic poncho. Uncharged cost, 400gp, cost to charge, 13m. Ok now you're just messing with me, right, jagex? This is a joke at my expense right? Or it was a mistake, a typo! Yeah that's it, you got the numbers mixed up and it's actually the rev-- no? Oh go to hell. Also, well done on making this item completely overpowered BUT making it extremely common drop and give people the ability to kill the creatures that drop the flakes when not on a slayer task. So not only have you made it easy to aquire very cheaply, making it way underpriced for it's use, you've also made every other item that has similar stats look significantly worse money for value and in turn also crash. So yeah. Great job guys.

 

The only one of these i approve of are the wilderness weapons and armour. Mainly because they're in the game AS extremely overpowered and expensive items, and they're not trying to hide this fact. And once you've used your charges, you can't just recharge the same item (Leading to ever decreasing item prices and relatively increasing recharge prices) it's gone. Meaning that the only way you'll get another one is if someone gets one as a drop and sells it. THIS. Jagex. This i approve of. A purposefully powerful weapon that automatically shoots down it's demand with the supply as long as there are rich guys that want the best.

 

I've had this little rant bottled up for a while and the new mage armour being entirely based on recharging and degrading has led me to letting it all out in this thread.

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Personally, I never saw the point in degrading items either, for all the same reasons as the OP. I shouldn't have to keep paying for an item I already have.

 

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You do know they're cutting the recharge cost as well as the slash defense of the new ganodermic stuff right?

 

Correction they are expanding the degrade time not cutting the recharge cost.

 

Besides I find these arguments utterly BORING, the vast bulk of degrading stuff (barrows, chaotics, nex and now polypore) is hardly expensive to repair. You make more than enough to cover repair costs while using it unless you are randomly doing stuff that has no good drops.

 

Polypore is the most costy but flakes are so common they are coming down fast, sure its prob gonna be the most costy repair if you have to buy flakes; but if you get 95 slayer its hella cheap to get flakes.

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You do know they're cutting the recharge cost as well as the slash defense of the new ganodermic stuff right?

 

Correction they are expanding the degrade time not cutting the recharge cost.

 

Besides I find these arguments utterly BORING, the vast bulk of degrading stuff (barrows, chaotics, nex and now polypore) is hardly expensive to repair. You make more than enough to cover repair costs while using it unless you are randomly doing stuff that has no good drops.

 

Polypore is the most costy but flakes are so common they are coming down fast, sure its prob gonna be the most costy repair if you have to buy flakes; but if you get 95 slayer its hella cheap to get flakes.

 

Sooooo, what you're saying is that the new armour basically has a 95 slayer req?

 

By the way, what's the street price of the armour anyways? I wouldn't mind a set. Also wonder what's up with the ridiculously low stab defense, while giving uber high mage/slash/crush def.

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You do know they're cutting the recharge cost as well as the slash defense of the new ganodermic stuff right?

 

Correction they are expanding the degrade time not cutting the recharge cost.

 

Besides I find these arguments utterly BORING, the vast bulk of degrading stuff (barrows, chaotics, nex and now polypore) is hardly expensive to repair. You make more than enough to cover repair costs while using it unless you are randomly doing stuff that has no good drops.

 

Polypore is the most costy but flakes are so common they are coming down fast, sure its prob gonna be the most costy repair if you have to buy flakes; but if you get 95 slayer its hella cheap to get flakes.

Well if you're wearing torva, and chaotic shield and weapon, you're spending 750k/hour of combat on repairs. That's a loss on almost all slayer tasks.

Sure it may not seem like much if all you do all day is kill nex, but it's a loss or a huge cut of profit out of most things in runescape, forcing people not to do things for fun in their own armour, because damn, that's expensive!

 

And yeah the new armour is going to be one of the cheaper ones as they made flakes insanely common. 95 slayer req didn't really cut the supply because after the bot nuke the most hours being put into the game is by the extremely high levels that already have skills like slayer. I look forward to using it at Corp when the price settles.

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You do know they're cutting the recharge cost as well as the slash defense of the new ganodermic stuff right?

 

Correction they are expanding the degrade time not cutting the recharge cost.

 

Besides I find these arguments utterly BORING, the vast bulk of degrading stuff (barrows, chaotics, nex and now polypore) is hardly expensive to repair. You make more than enough to cover repair costs while using it unless you are randomly doing stuff that has no good drops.

 

Polypore is the most costy but flakes are so common they are coming down fast, sure its prob gonna be the most costy repair if you have to buy flakes; but if you get 95 slayer its hella cheap to get flakes.

Well if you're wearing torva, and chaotic shield and weapon, you're spending 750k/hour of combat on repairs. That's a loss on almost all slayer tasks.

Sure it may not seem like much if all you do all day is kill nex, but it's a loss or a huge cut of profit out of most things in runescape, forcing people not to do things for fun in their own armour, because damn, that's expensive!

 

And yeah the new armour is going to be one of the cheaper ones as they made flakes insanely common. 95 slayer req didn't really cut the supply because after the bot nuke the most hours being put into the game is by the extremely high levels that already have skills like slayer. I look forward to using it at Corp when the price settles.

 

If you can AFFORD Torva, you can afford 750k/h on slayer tasks tbh.

 

Plus, the high def and LP boost are what makes Torva good, and that's wasted on slayer. As for the shield, D Def is generally better - and what makes those shields is, again, high def which is wasted on slayer, and absorb which is almost useless in slayer because slayer monsters don't usually hit that high. Oh, and D Def is usually better then a chaotic shield (or any sort of shield, except maybe anti-dragonfire shield depending on your herblore.)

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Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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k I never thought of ganodermic as degrading in the same sense that barrows/nex/chaotics degrade, but honestly the mycelium web is 200 gp... buying vesta's chainbody, anyone?

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Yeah, it occurred to me that the new polypore armour is basically repackaged revenant gear. :mellow:

 

The main reason I can't stand degradation is because you can't earn a super epic item, and then wear it for everything without incurring huge repair costs. I thought it'd be fun to prance around in full Pernix/Torva, but the repair costs tell me "NOPE".

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Yeah, it occurred to me that the new polypore armour is basically repackaged revenant gear. :mellow:

 

The main reason I can't stand degradation is because you can't earn a super epic item, and then wear it for everything without incurring huge repair costs. I thought it'd be fun to prance around in full Pernix/Torva, but the repair costs tell me "NOPE".

Exactly my issue. Sure, the repair cost may seem small after you've already thrown 1b at it. But it's actually not small at all and does hinder you.

 

Alright, don't use torva on slayer tasks as you don't need the defense and they're not offensively better than bandos anyway. I'll do that, but i shouldn't have to. I bought this armour and it's rediculous i'm not allowed to use it for most things as it's not efficient to do so.

 

It honestly feels like i'm renting the item and the initial cost is just the down payment to make sure i don't lose it. Makes the achievment of getting the best armour in the game lose most of it's shazam.

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Yeah, it occurred to me that the new polypore armour is basically repackaged revenant gear. :mellow:

 

The main reason I can't stand degradation is because you can't earn a super epic item, and then wear it for everything without incurring huge repair costs. I thought it'd be fun to prance around in full Pernix/Torva, but the repair costs tell me "NOPE".

Exactly my issue. Sure, the repair cost may seem small after you've already thrown 1b at it. But it's actually not small at all and does hinder you.

 

Alright, don't use torva on slayer tasks as you don't need the defense and they're not offensively better than bandos anyway. I'll do that, but i shouldn't have to. I bought this armour and it's rediculous i'm not allowed to use it for most things as it's not efficient to do so.

 

It honestly feels like i'm renting the item and the initial cost is just the down payment to make sure i don't lose it. Makes the achievment of getting the best armour in the game lose most of it's shazam.

 

I always thought the main point was to show it off at banks >_>

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my difinition of noob is i dont like u, either u are better then me or u are worst them me

Buying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.

Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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Not using super-expensive gear for daily mundane tasks due to decay costs? Working as designed.

 

Not using super-expensive gear for daily mundane tasks because of repair and fuel costs? Real Life.

 

Copying aspects of real-life economies to make RuneScape's economy more realistic and have more longevity? Common sense.

 

Your rant fails.

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Not using super-expensive gear for daily mundane tasks due to decay costs? Working as designed.

 

Not using super-expensive gear for daily mundane tasks because of repair and fuel costs? Real Life.

 

Copying aspects of real-life economies to make RuneScape's economy more realistic and have more longevity? Common sense.

 

Your rant fails.

Yeah i never use my $2000 oven to cook baked potatos, that would be a waste.

 

No. Not all things work this way. And even if they did we don't need this 'realism' in a game where i can turn mithril platebodies into gold coins while slaying a dragon with a fire surge and my summoned steel titan.

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

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Degrading items kinda makes sense. Your first example was to buy an item for 20m, sell it after using for 17m. In fact, it's very possible you could sell it for a profit after using it. That seems a little strange to me. Strange, as in economy ruining sorta strange.

 

Being able to just buy an item and trade it back when you're done with it for a profit a good economy does not make. You might as well be borrowing the item, not purchasing it. This is exactly why whips are absolutely dirt cheap. "400k for a drop that rare?" Yeah, well every time one drops, the price deflates; too many whips coming in and no whips going out equates to dirt cheap whips.

 

Now with items that degrade, you can't just "borrow" an item for an indefinite period of time, you actually have to pay upkeep for the item's advantages. Some items that need to be repaired (Barrows, Nex) work to drain cash out of the economy. Items that disintegrate are always going to be expensive, because they take themselves out of the economy - y'know like a consumable resource? Now the monsters (or whatever it is that) drops them are always enticing to hunt due to the constant demand for new gear.

 

In lemons terms: because economies said so.

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Degrading items kinda makes sense. Your first example was to buy an item for 20m, sell it after using for 17m. In fact, it's very possible you could sell it for a profit after using it. That seems a little strange to me. Strange, as in economy ruining sorta strange.

 

Being able to just buy an item and trade it back when you're done with it for a profit a good economy does not make. You might as well be borrowing the item, not purchasing it. This is exactly why whips are absolutely dirt cheap. "400k for a drop that rare?" Yeah, well every time one drops, the price deflates; too many whips coming in and no whips going out equates to dirt cheap whips.

 

Now with items that degrade, you can't just "borrow" an item for an indefinite period of time, you actually have to pay upkeep for the item's advantages. Some items that need to be repaired (Barrows, Nex) work to drain cash out of the economy. Items that disintegrate are always going to be expensive, because they take themselves out of the economy - y'know like a consumable resource? Now the monsters (or whatever it is that) drops them are always enticing to hunt due to the constant demand for new gear.

 

In lemons terms: because economies said so.

Well no. The only case where this actually works in terms of buying and selling if the ancient pvp weapons, as they physically vanish from the game. Dharok's platebody was at one time very rare and valuable, but over time more and more have come into the game and everytime one degrades, that money disappears for the repair, but the overall price is still crashing as more are coming into the game.

 

I said that you would sell the item at a later date for a loss because more will be in the game by then. The greater supply and smaller demand will result in the overall cost being reduced, especially if another similar or superiour item is released in that time. Now that this item is cheaper the repair should be cheaper, but no, it's the exact same as it ever was and ever will be, no matter the intial cost.

 

Just look at torag's helm. You can use that item for 20 hours before you've spent on repairs the price you initially paid for the actual item. That's not right.

 

Static degrade costs only make sense if the game stops being updated and is 'finished'. Otherwise these prices should be expected to change with the flow of items, and become a nice cheap secondary option to whatever thing takes it's place as the best item.

 

Buying and selling items is how the world works. If i buy and sell a car 5 years later does that mean i borrowed that car for 5 years? No, of course not. It was my property and i got paid money for it after i was done with it, probably making a huge loss.

If i had that car for 5 years and paid 5% of it's cost a month while it's in my possession, then i was borrowing it. (Cars are a bad example lol. By this i do not mean insurance and MOT, which are totally different things.)

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Degrading items kinda makes sense. Your first example was to buy an item for 20m, sell it after using for 17m. In fact, it's very possible you could sell it for a profit after using it. That seems a little strange to me. Strange, as in economy ruining sorta strange.

 

Being able to just buy an item and trade it back when you're done with it for a profit a good economy does not make. You might as well be borrowing the item, not purchasing it. This is exactly why whips are absolutely dirt cheap. "400k for a drop that rare?" Yeah, well every time one drops, the price deflates; too many whips coming in and no whips going out equates to dirt cheap whips.

 

Now with items that degrade, you can't just "borrow" an item for an indefinite period of time, you actually have to pay upkeep for the item's advantages. Some items that need to be repaired (Barrows, Nex) work to drain cash out of the economy. Items that disintegrate are always going to be expensive, because they take themselves out of the economy - y'know like a consumable resource? Now the monsters (or whatever it is that) drops them are always enticing to hunt due to the constant demand for new gear.

 

In lemons terms: because economies said so.

Well no. The only case where this actually works in terms of buying and selling if the ancient pvp weapons, as they physically vanish from the game. Dharok's platebody was at one time very rare and valuable, but over time more and more have come into the game and everytime one degrades, that money disappears for the repair, but the overall price is still crashing as more are coming into the game.

 

I said that you would sell the item at a later date for a loss because more will be in the game by then. The greater supply and smaller demand will result in the overall cost being reduced, especially if another similar or superiour item is released in that time. Now that this item is cheaper the repair should be cheaper, but no, it's the exact same as it ever was and ever will be, no matter the intial cost.

 

Just look at torag's helm. You can use that item for 20 hours before you've spent on repairs the price you initially paid for the actual item. That's not right.

 

Static degrade costs only make sense if the game stops being updated and is 'finished'. Otherwise these prices should be expected to change with the flow of items, and become a nice cheap secondary option to whatever thing takes it's place as the best item.

 

Buying and selling items is how the world works. If i buy and sell a car 5 years later does that mean i borrowed that car for 5 years? No, of course not. It was my property and i got paid money for it after i was done with it, probably making a huge loss.

If i had that car for 5 years and paid 5% of it's cost a month while it's in my possession, then i was borrowing it. (Cars are a bad example lol. By this i do not mean insurance and MOT, which are totally different things.)

 

However, the flakes from the new armor function just like PvP equipment: they dissapear forever. I get what you're saying about the Dharok platebody, the item always stays in the game, the only thing leaving the economy is the money for the repairs. However, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Torag helm.

 

I think they should really introduce some non-degradable untradable items in the future... Making them untradable could lessen the impact on the economy perhaps. I'm really getting sick of this degrading crap myself, but it seems kinda necessary to keep market from going to shit at this point.

 

Here another idea! Seeing as items never dissapear due to death anymore, thanks to gravestones, there should be "high risk" areas! Maybe if you die in these place, all your items you drop (except the ~3 you keep normally of course) just dissapear! Then the economy is all fixed again! Woohoo! Oh, and there have to be dragons in these high risk areas.

 

P.S. That car analogy sucked. Just saiyan.

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Yeah i never use my $2000 oven to cook baked potatos, that would be a waste.

 

That's too bad, a 2000$ oven is actually the appropriate tool to bake a potato.

 

A million-dollar oven intended for the creation of synthetic diamonds? That would be a waste, yes.

 

No. Not all things work this way. And even if they did we don't need this 'realism' in a game where i can turn mithril platebodies into gold coins while slaying a dragon with a fire surge and my summoned steel titan.

 

I never advocated for naive 'realism', I argued for specific useful elements of realism to help balance the economy.

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

 

No, it helps the economy more than that. All that is a gold sink, degrading items is a gold sink and also provides a differentiation of differing item levels for differing costs, allowing lower tier items to still be viable and allowing the gold sink to balance with high level item acquisition. More is more.

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I don't like how all the new, good items degrade. Ganodermic in particular, takes far too much to charge.

 

Same thing with Dominion gloves, the cost/usefulness ratio is a bit too high, though I'm not certain how long they last.

 

 

 

 

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

I suggested that before, this reply might interest you:

 

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Yeah i never use my $2000 oven to cook baked potatos, that would be a waste.

 

No. Not all things work this way. And even if they did we don't need this 'realism' in a game where i can turn mithril platebodies into gold coins while slaying a dragon with a fire surge and my summoned steel titan.

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

 

Bad comparison, given your oven doesn't count as a super expensive. The oven at my work has individual parts that cost more than your $2,000 oven.

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I don't like how all the new, good items degrade. Ganodermic in particular, takes far too much to charge.

 

Same thing with Dominion gloves, the cost/usefulness ratio is a bit too high, though I'm not certain how long they last.

 

 

 

 

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

I suggested that before, this reply might interest you:

 

21mcjtg.png

 

I think that's a little strange as any aspect of runescape could be counted as gambling, really.

 

Duel arena? No skill involved, just as bad as betting on horse racing.

Opening impling jars? Just like scratch cards.

The moment you kill a creature with a rare drop? Just like the lottery.

 

I'm pretty sure they do NOT need a gambling license to allow players to gamble RSGP, as it holds no real world value. (The black market value is obviously ignored as it's illegal)

There are a number of "children's" games that have gambling aspects, kingdom of loathing being a prime example.

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I don't like how all the new, good items degrade. Ganodermic in particular, takes far too much to charge.

 

Same thing with Dominion gloves, the cost/usefulness ratio is a bit too high, though I'm not certain how long they last.

 

 

 

 

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

I suggested that before, this reply might interest you:

 

21mcjtg.png

 

I think that's a little strange as any aspect of runescape could be counted as gambling, really.

 

Duel arena? No skill involved, just as bad as betting on horse racing.

Opening impling jars? Just like scratch cards.

The moment you kill a creature with a rare drop? Just like the lottery.

 

I'm pretty sure they do NOT need a gambling license to allow players to gamble RSGP, as it holds no real world value. (The black market value is obviously ignored as it's illegal)

There are a number of "children's" games that have gambling aspects, kingdom of loathing being a prime example.

 

Just as something is luck based doesn't make it "Gambling"

Gambling in the legal sense is specifically about placing some form of money against an outcome of some form of game of chance/skill in which you are not an instrumental part (eg poker, blackjack etc you play but the dealt cards are the cards. You're being there doesn't alter that.) and the house giving out/keep money based on the outcome.

Of course gambling in the broad sense includes many other things, but in legal terms it is the process of placing a bet agaisnt an outcome.

Duel Arena does come close, but as its you vs another player and not agaisnt "the house" it's not Gambling in the legal sense; which is what they want to avoid due to legal things.

 

Note: I am differentiating Gambling from gambling.

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I don't like how all the new, good items degrade. Ganodermic in particular, takes far too much to charge.

 

Same thing with Dominion gloves, the cost/usefulness ratio is a bit too high, though I'm not certain how long they last.

 

 

 

 

 

This DOES help the economy slightly, but no where near as much as less annoying, wanted, methods would. Such as an in-game gambling system that takes 5% of the pot.

I suggested that before, this reply might interest you:

 

21mcjtg.png

 

I think that's a little strange as any aspect of runescape could be counted as gambling, really.

 

Duel arena? No skill involved, just as bad as betting on horse racing.

Opening impling jars? Just like scratch cards.

The moment you kill a creature with a rare drop? Just like the lottery.

 

I'm pretty sure they do NOT need a gambling license to allow players to gamble RSGP, as it holds no real world value. (The black market value is obviously ignored as it's illegal)

There are a number of "children's" games that have gambling aspects, kingdom of loathing being a prime example.

 

Just as something is luck based doesn't make it "Gambling"

Gambling in the legal sense is specifically about placing some form of money against an outcome of some form of game of chance/skill in which you are not an instrumental part (eg poker, blackjack etc you play but the dealt cards are the cards. You're being there doesn't alter that.) and the house giving out/keep money based on the outcome.

Of course gambling in the broad sense includes many other things, but in legal terms it is the process of placing a bet agaisnt an outcome.

Duel Arena does come close, but as its you vs another player and not agaisnt "the house" it's not Gambling in the legal sense; which is what they want to avoid due to legal things.

 

Note: I am differentiating Gambling from gambling.

I understand your logic here, but i still don't believe jagex would break any laws if they implemented it into the game, as RSGP holds no real life value.

 

A good alternative, the exact thing KOL does and gets away with, is player vs player gambling, where the house takes a small cut. The money goes into the pot in advance, the cut is taken, the coin is flipped, the winner is paid. 50/50 odds for both players and jagex destroy 5%.

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I haven't read through these yet, but I'm sure they might shed some light on what Jagex is facing: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/licensing_compliance__enfo/gambling_related_legislation.aspx

 

 

Puzzle Pirates has a healthy and thriving poker community. And yet Runescape cannot?

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