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stevepole
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I am claiming that wanting to beat the crap out of something or someone is far better than wanting to take one's own life. And I never did say that she should not go to a doctor, all I did was to be a friend and let her benefit from my personal experience on the subject of mental torment.

 

it would be much safer if people with mental health issues were suicidal so that they could be controlled and are not a danger to the public.

 

Article 5:

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

 

Article 7:

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

Article 18:

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

 

Article 22:

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

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Sorry Mather, the above quote was made in regard to Leiana telling us to stop

 

The context of my statement was that being suicidal is better then being violent and a danger to society, if you think that it is inhumane for me to think that people who are an innate danger to others and are having violent episodes and in your case condoning it and supporting it with no regret or mercy aren't given help or imprisoned then your idea of society is a broken one. Your society would be quite similar to Mad Max with murder, revenge and death everywhere. The human rights extracts are irrelevent, people who are a danger to society can and will be regularly removed from society.

 

But in response:

 

Prison or hospitilisation is not torture, nor cruel, inhumane or degrading.

 

This supports my point, that people who are a danger to society should not be allowed to wander the streets attacking without provocation or if they wrong the person in any way.

 

This does not apply.

 

This does not apply either, a personality is not classified as a mental disorder and so the prevention of a mental disorder does not constitute not allowing free development of personality.

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Mather,

I draw your attention to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectioning#Containment_of_danger

And

"Principles for the Protection of Persons with Mental Illness and the Improvement of Mental Health Care"

 

Not seeking to get involved in the argument...Fact is that it is Lei's choice...But just pointing out that Human Rights are not violated.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Might I add that while violent people tend to be a nuisance to society, they are actually less of a danger because they are violent. In a fit of rage they may kill one person, while seemingly stable people can become serial killers and suicidal people may decide to go out with a shootout. Which is more likely to do most damage, the guy everyone's careful around or the guy who's pissed at the world and has nothing to lose?

 

Archi, neither of those are part of international law.

 

Res, any such action taken against someone as a result of their emotional health is degrading and inhumane.

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You mean the one passed by the UN, and the Office for the High Commissioner for Human Rights?

"Adopted by General Assembly resolution 46/119 of 17 December 1991"

 

I can see how you might think that the International Governing Body doesn't decide International Law.

 

 

I would also point out that Lei is not an international citizen, she is a citizen of a state in America...where non-international law rules.

 

So, in actuality, your law isn't international, since it isn't observed everywhere.

Unless you want to claim that international law doesn't need to be observed to be actioned, it only needs to be accepted, in which case "Principles for the Protection of Persons with Mental Illness and the Improvement of Mental Health Care" is international law, since it is ratified by the UN.

 

 

 

As such your argument is contradictory.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Well I don't believe that international law is truly international unless everyone accepts them.

 

And with that guy in Syria and Gaddhafi still around, they probably aren't truly international. :P

 

---

 

And serial killers aren't violent? What?

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

Former moderator of the original Dungeoneering

Former moderator of Ye Olde Hegemony

Moderator of the remake of Dungeoneering

Former Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)

Former President of the United States (Hegemony)

Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)

Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony

 

 

The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile.

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If a person is prone to violent outbursts you shouldn't just expect the general public to fend for themselves because its obvious that s/he's dangerous, you should take preventive measures before they kill somebody not after they kill somebody and its obvious that they have commited the crime. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Now I'm not saying that they should be arrested but refusing treatment and becoming a larger and larger danger to society is just ridiculous.

 

 

Mather, so you're saying people should be attacked and even killed because taking action against people with mental health could be percieved as degrading?

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Serial killers tend to act rationally according to their psychosis or delusion rather than on their feelings such as the common violent person does, thus why they manage to pull of several murders before being caught.

 

Res, once again you're mixing up preemptive action with injustice, you can take someone into custody for assault, but you can't arrest them for getting mad quickly.

 

Also note the difference between mental, psychological and emotional health. Emotional health affects how you perceive things and consider solutions, psychological health affects how you rationalize and how your mind functions, mental health affects how prone you are to lose control. Sucicidality and aggressiveness are affected by emotional health, how likely you are to kill someone is affected by your mental health.

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You actually can arrest them if they're 'getting mad quickly' in a public place and are acting in a threatening or abusive way. But if it is clear that they are a threat to society, for example they are storing masses of fertilizer in there garage or likewise having violent outbursts they need to be dealt with.

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Pretty sure if someone was carrying a weapon they would take him into custody just incase they did attack someone.

 

Also they tend to place people who have shown signs of mental destabilty on a watch list.

 

Precautions exist again people who are mad, because they are a danger.

It's a REALLY big shaft.

I didn't catch fire, I used the can of hairspray as a flamethrower and pointed it at my arm.

how are you going to ignore my posts when I'm offering to let you live as my vassal in two weeks time?

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Another way to see it is that someone who's emotionally unstable is like a trap, harmless unless you activate it while someone who's mentally unstable is like the common horror film murderer, can come at anyone at any moment. The psychologically unstable however are not so likely to hurt someone as they are not to care if they do.

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Quick, it's a trap.

 

The biggest pitfall that you can fall into when arguing someone is using their pseudo-science as part of the discussion. If you start using their own bogus terminology, you're just playing into their framework.

Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county!

 

Former moderator of the original Dungeoneering

Former moderator of Ye Olde Hegemony

Moderator of the remake of Dungeoneering

Former Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)

Former President of the United States (Hegemony)

Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)

Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony

 

 

The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile.

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Well, the argument has already been won.

 

 

It would be pointless to continue the discussion, since his arguments convince no one here.

And since he is using his own set of rational none of our arguments will work either.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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Been watching another anime lately.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBZU1hKIzg

 

It's a bit gory, but not that much. The plot is okay, predictable at times but otherwise okay.

 

Give it a watch if you're interested by the opening.

It's a REALLY big shaft.

I didn't catch fire, I used the can of hairspray as a flamethrower and pointed it at my arm.

how are you going to ignore my posts when I'm offering to let you live as my vassal in two weeks time?

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Good for you Lei, don't buy into the [cabbage] the pharmaceutical industry puts out. Medication for psychological conditions is largely unnecessary.

 

The amount of false information in this post irks me. lol

"Don't get in my face, don't invade my space. I'll put you in your place.

I'll only tell you once, I'll never tell you twice. This is me being nice." ~Porcelain and the Tramps

 

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Good for you Lei, don't buy into the [cabbage] the pharmaceutical industry puts out. Medication for psychological conditions is largely unnecessary.

 

The amount of false information in this post irks me. lol

Dat failed attempt at satire/sarcasm

 

EDIT: It was supposed to be followed by a line about general conspiracy stuff, but tip.it ate it...

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haha. Well, unless you know someone well, sarcasm is hard to read over the net.

"Don't get in my face, don't invade my space. I'll put you in your place.

I'll only tell you once, I'll never tell you twice. This is me being nice." ~Porcelain and the Tramps

 

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This. Sarcasm is pretty much all nonverbal.

 

1) A linguistics professor was lecturing to her class one day. "In English," she said, "A double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."

 

A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah . . .right."

 

2) They can hold all the peace talks they want, but there will never be peace in the Middle East. Billions of years from now, when Earth is hurtling toward the Sun and there is nothing left alive on the planet except a few microorganisms, the microorganisms living in the Middle East will be bitter enemies.

 

3) No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.

 

4) Funny noises are not funny.

 

 

On an unrelated, and irrelevant, note:

111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321

China has more English speakers than the United States.

If you fart consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb.

If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days, you will have produced enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee.

Right-handed people live, on average, nine years longer than left-handed people do.

All Polar Bears are left handed.

The ant always falls over on its right side when intoxicated.

Women blink nearly twice as much as men.

You are more likely to be killed by a Champagne cork than by a poisonous spider.

On average, people fear spiders more than they do death.

You should never say anything to a woman that even remotely suggests you think she's pregnant unless you can see an actual baby emerging from her at that moment.

There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them.

When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy.

If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then...To make sure it's still there.

Well I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts.

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