Squeal of Fortune + Buyable Spins

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Meh..

 

I just sent a polite e-mail imo explaining why I had to unsub due to security concerns towards jagex and my cards. Basically that they needed to add more security/reaffirm details. Its unacceptable that anyone who can get access to my account can spend all my money. Aswell as children using parents card can buy items without extra confirmation.

 

Lots of stuff but just focused on my security concerns towards jagex not taking my security/real life money seriously.

 

I did say I would reconsider my position if they put in security though.

 

Maybe that will make the investers pay attention. :razz: Truth is I dont /want/ to quit but my security concerns are very legit and im concerned with their lack of concern with future updates related to payments. (Pretty likely they ganna introduce more things.) I dont want to keep checking updates to see if they have done something else thats also a security concern for me. Its a fun game but its not worth some idiot abusing the recovery system and spending all my money. =s I havnt got a choice.. I need real life money to eat, pay rent, etc. I need trust with jagex that they are ganna be responsible in the future. (And now.)

 

Sure I have removed all my details anyway. That doesnt mean we know what future updates will bring and its irrelevant because im also concerned for everyone else who plays too. (Who dont know, or have any reason to know, to remove their details.) Aswell as parents who children who play and can buy things without extra confirmation.

 

I got hope they will put in extra security but if not.. All good things come to an end. This is where I draw the line tbh. It shouldnt be possible for children to use their kids cards to buy ingame stuff without extra security. Seems wrong to me.

Don't worry, they already thought of that and updated their terms of service with "We reserve the right to charge you for any unauthorized use of your subscription by third parties." .

 

I don't think that's going to hold in court.

[Trollface]

SQUEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

 

[Vex]

If a company updates/changes their ToS don't you need to re-accept it again?

 

Like everytime apple updates theirs you're prompted to read and accept it again when using the app store?

[999134]

just accidentally clicked the buy spins button while running to ge... logs you out and I lost my pid which I spent like 20 minutes getting.

I now hate this update more than I thought possible.

[Ambler]

If a company updates/changes their ToS don't you need to re-accept it again?

 

Like everytime apple updates theirs you're prompted to read and accept it again when using the app store?

Indeed you do. Though I think it's more "By logging on you agree" than "Accept NOW or no scape for you!"

[Jaffy1]

If a company updates/changes their ToS don't you need to re-accept it again?

 

Like everytime apple updates theirs you're prompted to read and accept it again when using the app store?

Indeed you do. Though I think it's more "By logging on you agree" than "Accept NOW or no scape for you!"

 

You agree when you create your account, that when playing said account, you agree to the terms of service. This agreement was made when the account got created, so if they change the terms of service players should have to accept it again before being allowed to play again. By accepting the ToS you agree to it, so you should have the right to refuse if Jagex backs out or adds to a part.

 

If they can change the ToS and the "agreement" would still stand, abuse would become very easy.

[Omali]

If a company updates/changes their ToS don't you need to re-accept it again?

 

Like everytime apple updates theirs you're prompted to read and accept it again when using the app store?

Indeed you do. Though I think it's more "By logging on you agree" than "Accept NOW or no scape for you!"

 

You agree when you create your account, that when playing said account, you agree to the terms of service. This agreement was made when the account got created, so if they change the terms of service players should have to accept it again before being allowed to play again. By accepting the ToS you agree to it, so you should have the right to refuse if Jagex backs out or adds to a part.

 

If they can change the ToS and the "agreement" would still stand, abuse would become very easy.

 

If you accept a Terms of Service with a provision that allows the company to change it at any time and without notice, then you do agree to any future changes.

 

 

 

Don't worry, they already thought of that and updated their terms of service with "We reserve the right to charge you for any unauthorized use of your subscription by third parties." .

 

That provision has been in place for long before Squeal of Fortune.

[Vex]

So here is the bit about changing their ToS. This is mainly regarding the saving of credit-cards/security issue.

 

Jagex TOS

 

Changes

We may change these terms and conditions to reflect: changes in applicable laws; regulatory or security requirements; relevant guidance or codes of practice; technical alterations to Jagex Products; and to improve clarity and consistency. Please check the terms and conditions whenever you use a Jagex Product. If you are not a subscriber, we will treat your continued use of a Jagex Product as acceptance of these changes from their effective date as shown above. If you are a subscriber, we will treat you as bound by the changes on the first renewal date for your subscription after the effective date and so you should cancel your subscription (as explained below) before this renewal date if you don't like the proposed changes.

 

So we are required to read the ToS everytime we login?

 

 

If you don't subscribe by using the product you automatically consent to the changes immediately.

If you do subscribe you automatically consent to the changes on your first billing/renewal date after the updated date.

If you are currently in between the updated date of changes (April 2) and your next billing date - you should immediately cancel your subscription if you do not agree with the changes.

 

If you are to login after the ToS has been updated you automatically are considered to agree with it.

 

There is no link to the ToS on the RS client.

There is no message/notice that the ToS has been updated.

There is nowhere documenting what exactly in the ToS has been updated/changed.

 

TLDR: Corporations are [bleep]s. You are expected to read the ToS everytime you login/use the product. You are not notified if their policy changes.

 

 

Are there any mandates stipulating that any changes to ToS must notify their users?

 

All I could find in 5min was this: ToS Change Case

[Lielac]

Hmm. Jagex says it's not gambling because you always win something. But when it comes to buying spins and then getting crappy drops, is that still true?

 

Time = money, after all, whether the money is gp or meatspace money. If you buy 75 spins for $20, that's two hours of work at minimum wage (where I live) spent on spins. Each spin costs about $0.27 (1/3 of a cent less actually), about 1/37th of an hour's work. 3600 (number of seconds in an hour) divided by 37 is 97.297297..., so about 97 seconds to get the money needed for one spin. If you get an item or EXP amount that costs less than 97 seconds to get in RS, then you've lost time and therefore money. If you get an item or EXP amount that costs more than 97 seconds to get, then you've won the time it would take to get that prize (or its normal equivalent for some items) normally and you now have that time at your disposal to do with as you see fit.

 

Ooh! That's just assuming the current price. If/when the $20 option goes down to 40 spins, then that'll be $0.50 a pop or 1/20th of an hour or if it takes you less than two minutes to get the prize normally then you've just wasted fifty cents on a freaking bucket that would take less than a minute to buy if you killed a goblin by Lumbridge and sold its bones or used any coins it dropped to buy a bucket at the general store. Since it would take less time to get the bucket without SoF dropping it on a bought spin than it would take to earn the money used to buy the spin used to get the SoF bucket drop, you've lost.

 

TL;DR: Squeal of Fortune is still gambling because maths. Also because time = money.

[Golvellius]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

[sees_all1]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering runecrafting xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining instead of 233 days of 5 hour ZMIing

Umm... no just no.

FIFY.

[JoWie]

I would not mind the update if the maximum buyable spings per day was extremely lowered (not $200 max a day, more like $200 max per year).

I would rather see buyable spins be replaced by being able to buy loyalty points.

[SwreeTak]

http://runetrack.com/profile.php?user=Starrychelx

 

SoF at its finest. This guy has been maxing the 200$ limit every day so far.

Sad thing is I am 99% sure this guy will be using rwt money for that, have seen him boasting about selling some of his bank (is one of those 200b+ bank 20 phat set boxers) and would be surprised honestly if he was not selling some of his phats to get that 200$/day for runescape.

Look at his slayer xp gains... SOF has let him buy slayer with his phats.

 

Just to get used to things like these now. Those with a lot of money irl will earn faster xp than those who haven't.

[Kimberly]

Don't worry guys, in 3 years they'll post that they never realized people would buy spins every day and that it wasn't really in line with the original content design and then they'll nerf it.

[muckytears]

Don't worry guys, in 3 years they'll post that they never realized people would buy spins every day and that it wasn't really in line with the original content design and then they'll nerf it.

If one person were to spend maximum for 3 years straight, assuming that runescape isn't dead ... maybe Jagex could use that $219,000 to do something amazing

[Ambler]

The funny thing is, this isn't killing RuneScape, it could help improve it, as well as give Jagex a financial boost, looking at the current economy, it could prove helpful.

As for those people buying spins, if they really want to spend up to $200 a day, it's fine by me. The problem is about how they GET the money, as for an ingame advantage, they are buying pixels. Their account, not mine. I can happily say that I'm spin free. :thumbup:

[999134]

I would have considered buying spins if they offered purely cosmetic rewards(odd 10m gp was ok), but the xp lamps are just disgusting...

[rudes7]

The funny thing is, this isn't killing RuneScape, it could help improve it, as well as give Jagex a financial boost, looking at the current economy, it could prove helpful.

As for those people buying spins, if they really want to spend up to $200 a day, it's fine by me. The problem is about how they GET the money, as for an ingame advantage, they are buying pixels. Their account, not mine. I can happily say that I'm spin free. :thumbup:

 

Couldn't have put it any better :thumbup:

[Ren]

The funny thing is, this isn't killing RuneScape, it could help improve it, as well as give Jagex a financial boost, looking at the current economy, it could prove helpful.

As for those people buying spins, if they really want to spend up to $200 a day, it's fine by me. The problem is about how they GET the money, as for an ingame advantage, they are buying pixels. Their account, not mine. I can happily say that I'm spin free. :thumbup:

You really did put a good spin on the topic.

 

I do not like players who have rl money advantages over me, since it's like buying a fully prestiged Mw2/3 account or something, and them being terrible at the game still. I find what I accomplish myself an achievement, and afking levels/buying shit/rwting/dicing, flowergaming, or scamming your bank kind of devalues it. Especially when everyone does it..

 

 

However, as long as Jagex removes it sooner rather than later/never, and they use that money not to make profit or please people who really shouldn't have a say in what comes to the game but to make this game better with advertising or more complex gaming or better servers or ANYTHING that helps us legitimately be able to enjoy RuneScape more, I think I can live with other people being douchebags :).

 

EDIT: Note the pun on my first line.. :L lol..

[Den]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

 

You spent an hour on 75 spins? Were you watching tv and eating at the same time?

One spin takes max 15 seconds (that's to click spin, get reward and claim it).

 

At that, 75 would take around 20 minutes.

[pal2002]

The funny thing is, this isn't killing RuneScape, it could help improve it, as well as give Jagex a financial boost, looking at the current economy, it could prove helpful.

As for those people buying spins, if they really want to spend up to $200 a day, it's fine by me. The problem is about how they GET the money, as for an ingame advantage, they are buying pixels. Their account, not mine. I can happily say that I'm spin free. :thumbup:

It is not helping the game at all - it *might* help jagex's pockets if the revenue from spins balance out the lost revenue from cancelled subscriptions, but it is devastating to the game - the spirit and the point. Rs gameplay is mainly about getting xp, leveling, and getting items, and selling xp and items simply defeats the point of playing at all. Once the people who buys spins max out and the normal players all leave the game, what exactly is left other than a bunch of investors with full pocketbooks?

 

You can spin this as much as you want, but in the end this is a disasterous move by jagex and you will soon be playing on a servers with 500 people with 400 of them bots. But hey, at least jagex is rich from selling spins. Is this the rs you've dreamed of?

[Alg]

...But just how reasonable is it for the average player to buy all of that experience?

 

Sure, there will probably be that one guy that spends $200 per day to max, but virtually everyone else has better things to do with their money (Even then, it's probably similar to the people that spend 15+ hours per day on the game. They don't have an advantage?). People will probably just use the buyable spins the same way as penguins, JoT, the troll defense game, or they'll stick to using it to get past those one or two tedious levels before an awesome skill perk.

 

I just don't see it being a big problem in the long term unless Jagex jumps off the slippery slope in terms of microtransactions.

[Ambler]

That's what I'm trying to say, the amount of players who abuse this for a huge amount of exp will be minimal compared to those legitly training, and will likley be shunned by the community for it. And those who only use it once or twice a month? Not much of a boost, even if it saves time. Consider it an extra troll invasion or effigy perhaps?

[stonewall337]

If a company updates/changes their ToS don't you need to re-accept it again?

 

Like everytime apple updates theirs you're prompted to read and accept it again when using the app store?

Indeed you do. Though I think it's more "By logging on you agree" than "Accept NOW or no scape for you!"

Contract of adhesion, shouldn't hold up in court. Also, according to a lawyer friend of mine the type of "click here to accept" EULA's aren't all that strong to begin with.

[Ren]

Anyone else notice how they didn't do a [bleep]ing poll to see how many people would want this?

 

Even if they did do a poll I bet it'd be worded funkily.

 

"Would you want to be able to get extra spins daily by playing the game normally or buying them?"

-Yes

-I'm not sure

-No

-NEVER!

 

Versus..

 

"Would you support the decision to release the ability to buy Squeal of Fortune tickets?"

-Of course!

-I guess..

-Probably not

-Not in a thousand ages

-STOP [bleep]IN' TRYING TO GET MICROTRANSACTIONS! You're pissing ERRBODY off!!!

 

Also, this was a reply to the below topic/post. So yeah..