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Squeal of Fortune + Buyable Spins


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So I had some time to spare and looked into the law aspect in response to Mod Matt K's statement.

 

Everything we do abides by all the necessary laws so each person will be protected by the laws of their land.

 

According to this article on my government's site any online "game of chance" is illegal unless a licence has been issued to the organisation hosting said game of chance.

 

A game of chance is defined as, and I quote, "Een spel is een kansspel als spelers een prijs kunnen winnen en geen overwegende invloed hebben op het spel." - In English: "A game is a game of chance when players can win a prize and do not have a predominant influence on said game."

 

The Squeal of Fortune fits this definition (in my view anyway) because, even though we always win 'a prize' - players do not have any influence on the game. Though the law is not very specific here, always winning 'a prize' - if Jagex interprets an empty bucket as such - still means the player can win a prize; they just do not know which one. Just like Deal or no Deal is considered a game of chance, while the lowest prize to be won there still is worth something (€0.01 iirc).

 

The law also specifies several times that it is illegal for those who have been issued a licence (in the unlikely event that Jagex somehow managed to get one), they are prohibited from offering games of chance to those below the age of 18.

 

 

 

With that in mind, how is it legal?

 

Actual Jmod quote for reference: http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/32/sofp.png

Game of chance definition: http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/kansspelen-en-kansspelbelasting/soorten-kansspelen

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I think it's not that easy, e.g. define a prize. Is flipping a coin with my friend to decide who takes the pretty girl also a game of chance and we need a license for it? If that prize has to be of monetary value, buyable spins are not a game of chance as those virtual goods don't have a specific worth. I don't understand dutch, so can't red into it.

 

Prize isn't defined through law, so is open to interpretation by judges. Flipping a coin with a friend for that purpose probably wouldn't fit the description since people cannot be given as a prize. The context also suggests the person issuing the chance to be a company or organisation. This is, for example, why the company I work for had to get a license to have a few promotional bingo weeks with prizes.

 

But yeah, I'm no expert on law so am probably simplifying things. :P

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I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questions

Hehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us.

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After my initial feelings of outrage, I have rethought my position on this update. While I would have preferred that Jagex not have gone this way, I realize that it is their choice which direction they wish to steer this game. Sure there are now players who can use micro transactions to get ahead in the game but that has little to no effect on my own game play. I will continue to proceed playing this game as I still enjoy it and Jagex's decision to implement this update does not change that.

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After my initial feelings of outrage, I have rethought my position on this update. While I would have preferred that Jagex not have gone this way, I realize that it is their choice which direction they wish to steer this game. Sure there are now players who can use micro transactions to get ahead in the game but that has little to no effect on my own game play. I will continue to proceed playing this game as I still enjoy it and Jagex's decision to implement this update does not change that.

I think they're hypocritical, see my siggy.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

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The statements in your signature were from...2009? Things have changed since then. Majority of Jagex being owned by investors now, so the basis before doesn't apply to now at all.

RIP Michaelangelopolous

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Same CEO... same face for the company.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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You know what? I don't give a shit if it's technically legal. Its morally abhorrent!

This.

 

I don't care whether or not it's called gambling, whether it's legal or not... I just can't understand how they don't feel bad encouraging younger people to spend money to participate in a game of chance.

 

K, to claim something is morally abhorrent is fine. But I'm going to say its NOT because its not illegal, against the game rules, or anything, and as such can not be immoral. According to Kant, the intentions are the important factor (considering many other things as well, thats just one). You have to actually prove or show WHY its abhorrent. Can't just up and say "its bad cuz I said so". Devil's advocate, yes. But I hate when people say stuff like this without defending it in the slightest.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dk5s7

Gambling, Addiction and Me: The Real Hustler (2 days left)

 

It's a documentary by the real hustler Alexis Conran about gambling and addiction in the uk. A depressing video I'm sure you will agree and THAT's why I believe the squeal to be morally abhorrent. It introduces people into a dark kind of gaming, a kind of gaming where you can pay £100 for EACH SPIN in bookmakers, a kind of gaming which literally wrecks peoples lives.

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"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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What I think of this update. Unprofessional.

 

Leaving people's credit card information laying out like this, is poor customer service.

 

Making the best way to train any skill buy able with real money and not require training the actual skill. Hypocritical to the effigy nerf that only happened a month and a half ago.

 

 

 

I feel Jagex has lost all their ethics and dignities.

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I don't really have much of an opinion about the whole 'micro-transactions' thing, I was sure Jagex would end up going that way eventually. After all look at the fortune they made from War of Legends before it became a 'fail' and that was purely based on micro-transactions. With RS it doesn't make any difference to my gameplay, as it's not war based so advantage is only individual. The issue I do have is the same one as many have mentioned....Jagex have taken decisive action previously on 'in game' gambling, yet here they are asking people to use real money on a game of chance they have set up; how is this not double standards? I am very disappointed. :shame:

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Same CEO... same face for the company.

 

Yes, and back then the direction of the company was different. Things change, Mark's still the CEO but the people above him making the big decisions have decided to move to micro-transactions. Things said in the past no longer apply.

RIP Michaelangelopolous

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dk5s7

Gambling, Addiction and Me: The Real Hustler (2 days left)

 

It's a documentary by the real hustler Alexis Conran about gambling and addiction in the uk. A depressing video I'm sure you will agree and THAT's why I believe the squeal to be morally abhorrent. It introduces people into a dark kind of gaming, a kind of gaming where you can pay £100 for EACH SPIN in bookmakers, a kind of gaming which literally wrecks peoples lives.

There we go! I agree, gambling is detrimental overall. But how is this worse (as far as starting addictions, etc) then say boxing, or dicing?

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dk5s7

Gambling, Addiction and Me: The Real Hustler (2 days left)

 

It's a documentary by the real hustler Alexis Conran about gambling and addiction in the uk. A depressing video I'm sure you will agree and THAT's why I believe the squeal to be morally abhorrent. It introduces people into a dark kind of gaming, a kind of gaming where you can pay £100 for EACH SPIN in bookmakers, a kind of gaming which literally wrecks peoples lives.

There we go! I agree, gambling is detrimental overall. But how is this worse (as far as starting addictions, etc) then say boxing, or dicing?

 

Because this costs people real money (I assume you are talking about Rs boxing or dicing?). All other gambles in Runescape do not if you abide by the rules, and Jagex does what's reasonably within their possibilities to assure that I think.

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Because you can spend as much as £200 a DAY on the squeal. For the record, I was against dicing as well and also saw it as an introduction to irl gambling.

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Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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Sorry, sure it's been posted a few times on this thread but can't find it. Could someone tell me where I can unlink my card from this, sorry I can't find it though the hard to navigate Jagex website, canceled membership but can't find the option to totally remove the card details.

 

Strange to have been a member for so long and then have something like this come around and finally be the trigger to leave, oh well hardly been on for the last 3 months, but still. Good job jagex...

Solo GWD'er

 

Drops: Bandos Hilt x 1/ boots x 1 / Steam staff x 1 / Shards x 9

 

99 Str/ 99 Att/ 99 HP (More to come...)

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Thanks, sorry just had the fourms saved as a favourite not the main page so didn't see it.

Solo GWD'er

 

Drops: Bandos Hilt x 1/ boots x 1 / Steam staff x 1 / Shards x 9

 

99 Str/ 99 Att/ 99 HP (More to come...)

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I got a question for business majors or people into that sort of stuff.

 

How much say does an investor have in a product?

 

I honestly don't think the coders or people who make the game would have decided to implement this on their own. I mean they even state it in their rules of runescape.

 

We don’t want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn’t affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape.

 

I think the investors are pressuring them or something. The J-mods on the forums are just customer support so they have to make the company seem like it's doing its best or be fired.

 

Runescape seems to be doing fine with over 800k subscribers, however I know they're developing several other games such as transformers MMO, Stellar Dawn (recently scrapped but still time and resources). So maybe while RS seems to be doing fine they're losing money on other fronts and need the investors?

Pinata.png
Capes in order: Firemaking - Cooking - Construction - 99 Dungeoneering
- 120 Dungeoneering - Quest - Strength - Prayer - Herblore - Constitution
- Attack - Defence - Ranged - Runecrafting - Magic - Fletching - Mining

- Farming - Smithing - Slayer - Woodcutting - Summoning - Thieving - Hunter

- Fishing - Agility - Crafting - Divination - Max - Completionist

0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0101

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Sorry, sure it's been posted a few times on this thread but can't find it. Could someone tell me where I can unlink my card from this, sorry I can't find it though the hard to navigate Jagex website, canceled membership but can't find the option to totally remove the card details.

 

As TS said, I posted an announcement on the front page. If you're still having issues, feel free to PM me.

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jafjepediasig.jpg

 

 

angel2w.gif Tip.It Website Crew Leader

[hide=Quotes]

I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questions

Hehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us.

[/hide]

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New Face of the High Level Forums:

 

All the Ex-Stakers who made bank IRL and have that kind of cash to burn on levels

 

hahaha

Hey, if you have 20k (or whatever the estimate was) to blow on Runescape... :razz:

Instead of just the players who have that equivalent in time and patience.

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Hey, if you have 20k (or whatever the estimate was) to blow on Runescape... :razz:

... you should instead spend that money on investing?

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Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014

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From here on out, it's a waiting game.

 

I'm going to wait the two weeks from Monday to see how many subscribers drop off (a-la HSL), and I'm going to wait for Jagex's official response. The trick here is that the JMods probably have mixed feelings about this matter, or actively oppose the decision, but can't say so in an official capacity, as it would look really bad for the company. Not that they don't look bad from years of "we know what's right, stfu"-like behavior to their fanbase...

Even if people cancel membership now they'll continue to have it for potentially another month. For example, I cancelled my noobs membership on the 14th of March and it is still a member until 8 April. So in two weeks only about 1/30th of the subscriber drop will be present I think.

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