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Tip.It Times - 8th April 2012

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

 

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WRITE FOR THE TIMES - SUBMIT A GUEST ARTICLE:

Remember, YOU can write an article for the Tip.It Times! You can apply to write full time, or just submit a "one-off" guest article any time you want! Our editors will work with you to ensure that your article is ready for publication. All guest articles can be submitted to @tripsis or any other Editorial Panel member. For more information, including details on how to apply full time, read this forum thread: http://forum.tip.it/topic/209138-how-to-write-for-the-tipit-times/

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

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2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to tripsis by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

[/hide]

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to @tripsis or @Jaffy1. :)

 

Enjoy the articles!


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I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questions

Hehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us.

[/hide]

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Did you know...

...that typing "R.I.P. Runescape" in your notes yields the message "Wanna bet?". I don't know if this is some final insult, but you may have guessed that no, I don't want to bet. (Thanks to Ts_Stormrage!)

 

...Whaaaaaaaat.

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Did you know...

...that typing "R.I.P. Runescape" in your notes yields the message "Wanna bet?". I don't know if this is some final insult, but you may have guessed that no, I don't want to bet. (Thanks to Ts_Stormrage!)

 

...Whaaaaaaaat.

 

lolwut?

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RE: Steal of Fortune Article:

 

1. Jagex cannot "steal" money from anyone who willingly pays for SoF spins. And no one is forced to buy the spins either.

2. How I gain levels is NOT determined or controlled by how someone else gains levels. This game is NOT balanced at all and it cannot be balanced for people play at all hours of the night and day and not all of us are in heated competition with each other, some of us are only in friendly competition. Anyone who plays the game to "beat" their friends in the rankings is missing the point of the game, which is too simply have fun.

3. Buy Spins is only vaugely considered gambling, there is nothing to be gained in real life and if buying spins is considered a risk then paying for the game itself should be considered a risk.

4. Who in the right (or wrong) mind is going to store xp lamps from the SoF in their inventory all day and then use them on a single skill (and that's only if the lamps are not designated for a particular skill)

5. No one I know will be buying spins so no one I know can tell me that they got a super-rare from buying spins.

 

I personally do not like the Buy Spins feature and will never use it, ever! I don't care if it is removed or not. It does not stop me from playing the game at all.

All of these are my personal opinions.

 

RE: Time for something completely different Article

Thank you, you are quite correct. I am one of the few people who has loved the most recent updates. I am also one of those who is upset about my fps, but I've already had my say in the RS forums about it and now wait patiently for them to fix it. I also loved Bot Nuke Day because it happened on my birthday and consider it a wonderful gift from Jagex. They are doing a great job with the game. I look forward to more updates and more stuff to do.


"Oh I love God, he's so deliciously evil!" ~Stewie, Family Guy

"If I don't kill a man every now and then, they forget who I am" ~Captain Blackbeard

"If it ain't fun, yer doin' it wrong" ~Pirates vs Ninjas Clan Motto

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RE: Steal of Fortune Article:

 

1. Jagex cannot "steal" money from anyone who willingly pays for SoF spins. And no one is forced to buy the spins either.

2. How I gain levels is NOT determined or controlled by how someone else gains levels. This game is NOT balanced at all and it cannot be balanced for people play at all hours of the night and day and not all of us are in heated competition with each other, some of us are only in friendly competition. Anyone who plays the game to "beat" their friends in the rankings is missing the point of the game, which is too simply have fun.

3. Buy Spins is only vaugely considered gambling, there is nothing to be gained in real life and if buying spins is considered a risk then paying for the game itself should be considered a risk.

4. Who in the right (or wrong) mind is going to store xp lamps from the SoF in their inventory all day and then use them on a single skill (and that's only if the lamps are not designated for a particular skill)

5. No one I know will be buying spins so no one I know can tell me that they got a super-rare from buying spins.

 

I personally do not like the Buy Spins feature and will never use it, ever! I don't care if it is removed or not. It does not stop me from playing the game at all.

All of these are my personal opinions.

 

Regarding...

 

2. For some people, their way of having fun is being in a competition with friends...and it's only normal that an achievement feels better if there aren't already a lot of people who have it or that you don't want others to reach that simply by shelling out their rl wealth.

3. The legal case is not quite clear, but if we leave laws out of this it should be pretty obvious that this is gambling, imo. Virtual items still have a real life value, else no one would pay money for them. And the difference to the normal game is that there's skill involved in a not too small amount.

4. That was just an illustration to give an idea how many lamps you get, plus I think most people would use their lamps on a single skill when they can.

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1.) Virtual goods are the PLAYER's property. Not Jagex's IP.

 

2.) Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

 

3.) Since the items won are NOT TRADABLE, they don't have intrinsic value.

 

SOF is not gambling. But I still hate it.


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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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What is this new bunch of link inclusion going on here? ( I know it helps the article, but what about when and if those links go dead? They should link to some permanent archive bin for future reading reference. )

 

---------------------

 

SoF is pretty much spot on throughout.

 

---------------------

EtR:

 

Why does every skill need to be fast? What is this madness? Not everything should be fast. It makes some things more valuable than others. (!)

 

The ultra pessimist in me, however, says that everything should be fast enough to devalue the SoF max spin limit. This however is all post-complete-nonsense-rubbish-speak.

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Why does every skill need to be fast? What is this madness? Not everything should be fast. It makes some things more valuable than others. (!)

 

I agree with this. It's interesting to have skills differ in training speed by an order of magnitude.


"Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art?

---

 

 

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My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.

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@Steal of Fortune

If Jagex were to start selling tradable items (E.G. GP, high-level items, etc, would the SoF really become gambling?

I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not sure.

 

I feel it is gambling in the state it is in now, because you honestly don't win if you get a bucket or whatnot.

At the same time, I do see why people feel it isn't gambling.

 

Also, sent you a pm Stormrage. Sorry it came a little late, but I sent the pm as soon as I was informed.

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@Steal of Fortune

If Jagex were to start selling tradable items (E.G. GP, high-level items, etc, would the SoF really become gambling?

I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not sure.

 

I think the loophole is to sell some type of token and then let players buy an item with said token. Players will technically be paying for the token with real currency, not the item itself.

 

I suspect this is something we will see in the near future.


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[spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011:

 

Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115

Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)

Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85

 

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1.) Virtual goods are the PLAYER's property. Not Jagex's IP.

 

Nothing in Runescape belongs to anyone but Jagex. They reserve the rights to everything a player thinks they own. The rules and the ToS/ToA, whatever you want to call it, state this.

 

When you pay for membership, you're paying Jagex for a service and the right to use their members only servers.


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1.) Virtual goods are the PLAYER's property. Not Jagex's IP.

 

2.) Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

 

3.) Since the items won are NOT TRADABLE, they don't have intrinsic value.

 

SOF is not gambling. But I still hate it.

 

You and I agree on the main point, but I have to nitpick. :P

 

1. Just because your American lawyer friend brought up a legal principle irrelevant to U.K. contract law (and even if it weren't, probably still would lack basis in fact) doesn't mean you can chant the mantra as if it's gospel. It's not true, no case has been ever been brought against Jagex concerning this, and it's unlikely that any party will possess the resources to bring such a case to Jagex concerning virtual property, let alone a legal basis to rest on.

 

I think you'll agree with Point # 2.

 

2. Jagex employs technically-correct language to maintain the veneer of legitimacy when it's clear there are less than savory intentions behind those updates. Jagex knows that players value certain items more than others. They capitalize on that interest by introducing options to raise those hopes whilst funneling the incoming flood of revenue. They purposely place low value and high value items together so the player thinks he has a shot (no matter how small) at winning the jackpot. This way, players have greater incentive to purchase spins to get closer to winning that shiny, glowing bauble...! But when the technique is questioned, Jagex can step back and say it isn't gambling because X or Y.

 

In this case, Jagex claims it's not because you don't risk anything when you spin. That's true. That doesn't stop them from employing incentives for players to foolishly waste their money, though. It's a pseudo-gambling device designed directly for this purpose. I'm not accusing them of breaking any gambling laws. It's far from that. I'm more concerned about the sleazy marketing tactics and the possible violation of consumer protection laws.

 

Finally...

 

3. Yes, the items do have intrinsic value. Value is not determined by price alone. A Godsword won from SOF is just as useful as one obtained from trade. If it had no intrinsic value, players would not purchase more spins for a chance to a win a Godsword. This is just the sort of technical, side-stepping language Jagex deploys to justify its updates.


RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
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My Stats on Old School RuneScape: 

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@Steal of Fortune

If Jagex were to start selling tradable items (E.G. GP, high-level items, etc, would the SoF really become gambling?

I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not sure.

 

I think the loophole is to sell some type of token and then let players buy an item with said token. Players will technically be paying for the token with real currency, not the item itself.

 

I suspect this is something we will see in the near future.

 

Ahh. That's why gamestop is going to start selling J-Coin cards in the upcoming year.

I really dislike how the investors use loopholes to justify everything...

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Also, sent you a pm Stormrage. Sorry it came a little late, but I sent the pm as soon as I was informed.

Feel free to tell the good people here what you told me... They will all be better for it if they knew this tidbit of information :)


Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
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Steal of Fortune was well written. Great job presenting the facts and how hypocritical Jagex is. :)

 

Jibby

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Did you know...

...that typing "R.I.P. Runescape" in your notes yields the message "Wanna bet?". I don't know if this is some final insult, but you may have guessed that no, I don't want to bet. (Thanks to Ts_Stormrage!)

 

...Whaaaaaaaat.

 

Same reaction I had before I started to giggle. :P

 

The main concern I have with buying SoF tickets is the fact that in the end, the grounds aren't even among players. Player A can buy a whole bunch of tickets and potentially buy a lot of experience points, while Player B who can't afford to do so will have to do it the old fashioned way. If the option to buy it was completely removed, I would've been okay with just having tickets from monster drops, skilling, and DnD's. Technically what they have is not gambling but in the game's community, and that you're simply paying for a chance to win something, but come on. Just because it's technically, legally not gambling doesn't make it okay. >_< It's encouraging behaviour and habits that is associated with gambling in my opinion. :shame:

 

Spot on, Stormy. :)

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I agree wholeheartedly with the third article. I don't agree with everything Jagex does, but I do enjoy the game, and most of the recent updates have been underrated. The problem is that when players are happy about an update they don't go to the complaints forum to whine about it, so we don't hear from them. It was nice to for a change.


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1.) Virtual goods are the PLAYER's property. Not Jagex's IP.

 

2.) Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

 

3.) Since the items won are NOT TRADABLE, they don't have intrinsic value.

 

SOF is not gambling. But I still hate it.

 

You and I agree on the main point, but I have to nitpick. :P

 

1. Just because your American lawyer friend brought up a legal principle irrelevant to U.K. contract law (and even if it weren't, probably still would lack basis in fact) doesn't mean you can chant the mantra as if it's gospel. It's not true, no case has been ever been brought against Jagex concerning this, and it's unlikely that any party will possess the resources to bring such a case to Jagex concerning virtual property, let alone a legal basis to rest on.

 

I think you'll agree with Point # 2.

 

2. Jagex employs technically-correct language to maintain the veneer of legitimacy when it's clear there are less than savory intentions behind those updates. Jagex knows that players value certain items more than others. They capitalize on that interest by introducing options to raise those hopes whilst funneling the incoming flood of revenue. They purposely place low value and high value items together so the player thinks he has a shot (no matter how small) at winning the jackpot. This way, players have greater incentive to purchase spins to get closer to winning that shiny, glowing bauble...! But when the technique is questioned, Jagex can step back and say it isn't gambling because X or Y.

 

In this case, Jagex claims it's not because you don't risk anything when you spin. That's true. That doesn't stop them from employing incentives for players to foolishly waste their money, though. It's a pseudo-gambling device designed directly for this purpose. I'm not accusing them of breaking any gambling laws. It's far from that. I'm more concerned about the sleazy marketing tactics and the possible violation of consumer protection laws.

 

Finally...

 

3. Yes, the items do have intrinsic value. Value is not determined by price alone. A Godsword won from SOF is just as useful as one obtained from trade. If it had no intrinsic value, players would not purchase more spins for a chance to a win a Godsword. This is just the sort of technical, side-stepping language Jagex deploys to justify its updates.

 

I'd like to point out that a contract of adhesion isn't binding in the U.K either.


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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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The thing that currently bothers me the most is the way in which Jagex is able to squirm around gambling laws, or, more specifically, how the laws are so full of flaws that they don't recognize this as gambling.

 

I mean, if we leave the legality out of it, I think everyone would agree that this is indeed gambling by the defintion, right?

 

Thus, the law should recognize it as gambling...but it doesn't because of idiotic loopholes.

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Not positive, but 'R.I.P Runescape' may have started with the mass protest against the ge, the day it was added, lol. That was the protest chant.

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Notice the addition of the word 'lucky' to the good items in squeel? Traditional Chinese gambling and 'gaming' adjective to make it seem like that particular 'prize' is special, lol. Kinda makes me wonder if jagex farmed squeel out and an Asian company built the panel. No one else misuses the word 'lucky' in this manner, as a meaningless sales gimmick.

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@Steal of Fortune

If Jagex were to start selling tradable items (E.G. GP, high-level items, etc, would the SoF really become gambling?

I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not sure.

 

I think the loophole is to sell some type of token and then let players buy an item with said token. Players will technically be paying for the token with real currency, not the item itself.

 

I suspect this is something we will see in the near future.

 

I don't think so. Because the tokens have a definite real world value, and the item has a definite token value, the item has a definite real world value.

 

What I see them doing is removing most the uber rare rewards from the SoF since they're obscenely rare and the people who buy the crap out of the SoF are only doing it for the exp. Then start selling the items they removed. Non-tradeable of course, maybe something about them not using bank space or a special bank just for them that has unlimited space.

 

The thing that currently bothers me the most is the way in which Jagex is able to squirm around gambling laws, or, more specifically, how the laws are so full of flaws that they don't recognize this as gambling.

 

I mean, if we leave the legality out of it, I think everyone would agree that this is indeed gambling by the defintion, right?

 

Thus, the law should recognize it as gambling...but it doesn't because of idiotic loopholes.

 

This.


Squab unleashes Megiddo! Completed all quests and hard diaries. 75+ Skiller. (At one point.) 2000+ total. 99 Magic.
[spoiler=The rest of my sig. You know you wanna see it.]

my difinition of noob is i dont like u, either u are better then me or u are worst them me

Buying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.

Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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Poignant Purple to Lokie's Ravishing Red and Alg's Brilliant Blue.

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Also, sent you a pm Stormrage. Sorry it came a little late, but I sent the pm as soon as I was informed.

Feel free to tell the good people here what you told me... They will all be better for it if they knew this tidbit of information :)

Spill the beans Den.


Popoto.~<3

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