Tip.It Times - 8th April 2012

[Ren]

Also, sent you a pm Stormrage. Sorry it came a little late, but I sent the pm as soon as I was informed.

Feel free to tell the good people here what you told me... They will all be better for it if they knew this tidbit of information :)

Spill the beans Den.

I wonder if it was about that article on Wikipedia about Insight being a liquidation company, give me a sec to link it up or quote some crap. Wish I could find that thread with the Insight shares graph on tif. Would be extremely useful for what I want to post.

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insight_Venture_Partners

 

Insight Venture Partners is a New York-based private equity and venture capital firm founded in 1995 by Jeff Horing and Jerry Murdock. The firm focuses exclusively on dismantling and liquidating software and Internet-enabled businesses and currently has a capital base of approximately $5 billion.

 

The firms Executive Advisory Board includes Robert Rubin (Chairman of Citigroup and 70th Secretary of the Treasury) and Steve Friedman (Chairman of the United States President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and former Chairman of Goldman Sachs).

[strilmus]

Course, the way the law works, it's more or less "legal if nobody can successfully claim it's illegal".

[Saradomin_Mage]

This post in the Investors thread somewhat covers pertinent information about Insight.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/309373-investors-ruin-runescape/page__st__80__p__5226013#entry5226013

[Ren]

This post in the Investors thread somewhat covers pertinent information about Insight.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/309373-investors-ruin-runescape/page__st__80__p__5226013#entry5226013

Thanks bucketloads for that.

Also, sent you a pm Stormrage. Sorry it came a little late, but I sent the pm as soon as I was informed.

Feel free to tell the good people here what you told me... They will all be better for it if they knew this tidbit of information :)

Spill the beans Den.

I wonder if it was about that article on Wikipedia about Insight being a liquidation company, give me a sec to link it up or quote some crap. Wish I could find that thread with the Insight shares graph on tif. Would be extremely useful for what I want to post.

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insight_Venture_Partners

 

Insight Venture Partners is a New York-based private equity and venture capital firm founded in 1995 by Jeff Horing and Jerry Murdock. The firm focuses exclusively on dismantling and liquidating software and Internet-enabled businesses and currently has a capital base of approximately $5 billion.

 

The firms Executive Advisory Board includes Robert Rubin (Chairman of Citigroup and 70th Secretary of the Treasury) and Steve Friedman (Chairman of the United States President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and former Chairman of Goldman Sachs).

 

Around 2006 somehow some investor popped up.

Insight was the name and they changed Jagex from the bottem up.

 

 

( http://www.google.com/trends/viz?q=runescape.com&date=all&geo=all&graph=weekly_img&sort=0&sa=N )

There we go, fixed.

[Ts_Stormrage]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

 

Expect a follow-up on this article, because this no longer concerns just the game of runescape...

 

EDIT: Now that the article is written; I can honestly say that it is one to look out for...

[Cow]

Runespan sounds a lot like flash-powder factory for runecrafting. I'm wondering if, via a completely broken game mechanic discovered within an hour, it yields reasonable (comparable to other skills. maybe 90-110k/hour) experience. I don't mind the training of runecrafting, just the slow exp rate. If Runespan is very clicky like Great Orb Project, I probably won't use it past the super pouch unless it is good experience. In any case, I hope it's good for free-to-play. (Unlikely, probably a giant advertisement) I trained to 57 Runecrafting on a free-to-play skiller and don't wish that experience on anyone.

 

TS, I look forward to your follow-up.

[Hamtaro]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

[sees_all1]

Runespan sounds a lot like flash-powder factory for runecrafting. I'm wondering if, via a completely broken game mechanic discovered within an hour, it yields reasonable (comparable to other skills. maybe 90-110k/hour) experience. I don't mind the training of runecrafting, just the slow exp rate. If Runespan is very clicky like Great Orb Project, I probably won't use it past the super pouch unless it is good experience. In any case, I hope it's good for free-to-play. (Unlikely, probably a giant advertisement) I trained to 57 Runecrafting on a free-to-play skiller and don't wish that experience on anyone.

 

TS, I look forward to your follow-up.

I know what you mean... I'm at 79 RC on a pure F2P account. If it wasn't for good friends playing GOP, I'd never have gotten passed 51...

[Ren]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

You should reread my post. Read the bold lettering carefully, and see the year progression of Insight Venture Partner's control..

[Octarine]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

You should reread my post. Read the bold lettering carefully, and see the year progression of Insight Venture Partner's control..

Your bolded text seems to have been removed from the wikipedia article and the article locked due to the revision that added that anyway - I'm doubting whether that is true of Insight. Their webpage doesn't seem to suggest anything of the sort

[Hamtaro]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

You should reread my post. Read the bold lettering carefully, and see the year progression of Insight Venture Partner's control..

I was actually having a conversation about the bolded contents of your post with one of my non-RS friends earlier. It's a strange thought that RuneScape might not be around a year or two from now if the investors run Jagex into the ground. I'm not really sure how that relates to my query about what else the investors will do, though. I have no doubt that these shenanigans will continue, but I was just trying to brainstorm specific ways that they could ruin the game.

 

 

[Ren]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

You should reread my post. Read the bold lettering carefully, and see the year progression of Insight Venture Partner's control..

Your bolded text seems to have been removed from the wikipedia article and the article locked due to the revision that added that anyway - I'm doubting whether that is true of Insight. Their webpage doesn't seem to suggest anything of the sort

There's some-odd stuff somewhere about MapleStory having the same issues as Rs is today (IVP owns shares there too). Loads of bots, microtransactions, no true players being all that happy..

Can't remember exactly what, cbb to grab it (did enough of that recently), and you're absolutely right but what company would want a bad rep? They probably removed that on purpose. And I would not doubt that the whole ex-chairman of Goldman Sachs thing is true. *points to rl economy*.

[strilmus]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

so, did we all forget about the googles, or did i just make that up in my head right now

 

 

"stop resisting, you'll LOVE being a corporate zombie"

[Hamtaro]

TBH; this is but a tip of the iceberg...

How far do you think Jagex (or the investors) will actually take this, though? It's going to take a lot for them to release an update that can get much worse than this. They'd have to release full blown micro-transactions where you buy a blue phat for $1k or something ridiculous like that.

 

Come to think of it, what if there were product placement in RuneScape? That would be pretty horrible playing an advertisement. I can see it now...

 

 

so, did we all forget about the googles, or did i just make that up in my head right now

 

 

"stop resisting, you'll LOVE being a corporate zombie"

I won't get into semantics, but I don't really consider that product placement. The way I see it, Jagex wanted to make less customer service work for themselves by attempting to get players away from Internet Explorer. When their choice for an incentive was between a pair of Goggles or a Pet Fox, they probably went with the one that that took less effort to make.

 

Did Google offer Jagex some sort of incentive? Perhaps, perhaps. In the long run, though, I don't think I've seen anyone wear those in months. So, if it's product placement, it's very ineffective. If not, Jagex is just lazy.

[Arceus]

There was probably some payment or understood payment from Google to Jagex. Very few things in the business world are given for free.

[Sir_Squab]

Course, the way the law works, it's more or less "legal if nobody can successfully claim it's illegal".

 

That sounds like a slight variation on "innocent until proven guilty." The problem, ultimately, is that legality and law tends to follow the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law. I'd point out that judges following the spirit of the law could be very easily abused, but then again I've heard a lot of stories of stupid shit judges got away with. Idk. Life is never black and white tho.

[Alg]

There was probably some payment or understood payment from Google to Jagex. Very few things in the business world are given for free.

That one makes sense though; a browser game promoting a (fairly good) browser. It's sort of like a sports stadium promoting a well-known beer/soft drink/food brand.

[SOF I Quit]

Storm, I left P2P Runescape 3 days ago, even though I have over 1 month left on my 3 month card. I have not been back but to read forums.

 

I think a lot of people hoping there will be a recovery by Runescape if the SOF is nerfed may be fooling themselves. This update of 04/02 hit peoples hearts, crushed them. I know it broke mine. I am luckier than some who are resigning as I had just come back into P2P 10/2011 after the bot nuke. My character was new, the future bright. Now, here I am reading stories of so many 5, 6, 7 and even 10 year veterans leaving because of the capriciousness of Jagex and the investment firm controlling the company; it is breathtaking! The shame and sham of professed loyalty by the owners/operators/Mods is just horrid. No real answers are given, now many of us think no explanation will ever be given.

 

Someone mentioned, I agree with them, that Jagex nerfed the Effigies pre-SOF so as that activity/award would interfere with the soon coming SOF. Seems very logical in hindsight to me, the Effigies certainly would have been competition to the wheel.

 

I am not coming back to Jagex's RS. It is sooo over. Will there be a Runefest 2012?

 

Mookie

[Ts_Stormrage]

@SOF I Quit:

You should wait for the article I have coming out this sunday...

 

Another one? Yes, 3 in 3 weeks...

 

But if my Steal of Fortune article boiled your blood and broke your heart, this one will finish you off by blowing your mind...

[pal2002]

You are fighting back against the evil empire previously known as jagex by quitting. Congratulations. :)

[Stev]

But if my Steal of Fortune article boiled your blood and broke your heart, this one will finish you off by blowing your mind...

You, air, are a God with words.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Thank you :)

 

I knew there was a reason why I lasted for four years at the Times :P (which is today, see link in my sig)

[Assume Nothing]

Did you know...

...that typing "R.I.P. Runescape" in your notes yields the message "Wanna bet?". I don't know if this is some final insult, but you may have guessed that no, I don't want to bet. (Thanks to Ts_Stormrage!)

 

...Whaaaaaaaat.

I'm late to the party, but I'll respond to this quote nonetheless: Precisely. If it was noted to be ironic, I'd laugh - but considering the serious tone, I'd facepalm at TS being so naive/oblivious. It's not some final insult, it was released as a tongue-in-cheek remark in response to those who asserted that RuneScape is/would die.

 

What seems to be the deliberate misinformation in some of the Times articles is why I've stopped reading them almost entirely - it's not peer reviewed enough, and definitely under-scrutinized. Criticism submitted pre-release is an invaluable asset, but it seems that there's little of that anymore.

 

In response to the so-called 'steal of fortune' article - I just don't get it. If you've identified it as gambling, so what about it? You're citing real world gambling laws, but you're not identifying where these laws exist, the likelihood of falling foul to these laws, and whether it has any merit in court - it's an article short of elaboration and explanation.

 

I think the problem isn't fully addressed either - they call it a chance to win something, but what is the chance? Is it closer to 1/5, or 1/50,000? A brief indication would have been useful. As a reader, I'm left unpersuaded by your attempts at argument, frankly - if there were a scoring system, I'd give this a 2.5/5.

 

Pro tip: it might be a good idea to tone down the narcissism on the response threads too.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Did you know...

...that typing "R.I.P. Runescape" in your notes yields the message "Wanna bet?". I don't know if this is some final insult, but you may have guessed that no, I don't want to bet. (Thanks to Ts_Stormrage!)

 

...Whaaaaaaaat.

I'm late to the party, but I'll respond to this quote nonetheless: Precisely. If it was noted to be ironic, I'd laugh - but considering the serious tone, I'd facepalm at TS being so naive/oblivious. It's not some final insult, it was released as a tongue-in-cheek remark in response to those who asserted that RuneScape is/would die.

Well it was meant as a joke, as this little note thing has been in RuneScape for ages, but only now seems vaguely relevant...

 

What seems to be the deliberate misinformation in some of the Times articles is why I've stopped reading them almost entirely - it's not peer reviewed enough, and definitely under-scrutinized. Criticism submitted pre-release is an invaluable asset, but it seems that there's little of that anymore.

How have I deliberately mis-informed? You're asking for details, but you give none yourself... I can tell you, however, that the article has indeed been read by not only people from the Editorial Panel, but from my clan as well who then give me some feedback...

 

In response to the so-called 'steal of fortune' article - I just don't get it. If you've identified it as gambling, so what about it? You're citing real world gambling laws, but you're not identifying where these laws exist, the likelihood of falling foul to these laws, and whether it has any merit in court - it's an article short of elaboration and explanation.

I've not cited any laws, I merely submitted to my readers that, considering it is a game of chance, and that, for example the Dutch courts, have placed value on virtual items, this SoF thing could be considered gambling in some countries... I've deliberately stopped short of listing the countries where the gambling age is higher than the audience that RuneScape is aimed at, because adults play this game as well... If I had to go into full detail on every country (or even every single state in the U.S.) where SoF is considered gambling, this would've stopped being a read for entertainment long ago...

 

I think the problem isn't fully addressed either - they call it a chance to win something, but what is the chance? Is it closer to 1/5, or 1/50,000? A brief indication would have been useful. As a reader, I'm left unpersuaded by your attempts at argument, frankly - if there were a scoring system, I'd give this a 2.5/5.

An indication would indeed be useful. In fact, in my article I mention the lack of information thereof quite clearly... The fact that you seem to have missed that, tells me you didn't bother to read the article thoroughly enough, hence I place no value on your given score at all...

 

Pro tip: it might be a good idea to tone down the narcissism on the response threads too.

I'll do that when I stop being awesome :rolleyes:

[Assume Nothing]

If it was a joke, then you could have presented it as a joke. It would have sounded more like a 'joke' - whatever that entails, if you had noted its irony instead of remarking 'I don't know if this is some final insult', which it's clearly not. I wouldn't even categorize that as a joke, as it clearly did not bring about a revelation.

 

I wasn't directing the second paragraph at you - it was a statement against the general trend of tip.it times articles. I don't have any examples on hand, but I'll post some when this becomes a relevant subject again. You're telling me that you're receiving feedback, but I'm skeptical as to what value the feedback has, if it's not pointing out the obvious issues, e.g. the lack of information.

 

Ah, you've caught my error. I meant reference, not citation - apologies for that. I submit that I did not read the article fully - as it fell short on interest, which is why I'm hesitant on commentating for the entire thing - but the lapse of information gives the reader less room to be persuaded by your article, hence the mention of a score. I'll revise that when I have time to re-read it.

 

The note about the narcissism: If you wish so - but do be informed that self-praise is the equivalent of no praise at all. It's merely the mark of an egoist - a reason to be less persuaded by your articles, for that it affects your credibility.