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2012 U.S. Elections - President Obama Re-elected


Range_This11

Presidential Election  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Candidate Will You Vote For?

    • Mitt Romney
      8
    • Barack Obama
      55
    • Other (For all you Ron Paulers)
      15


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We're moving off in all sorts of different tangents here. A lot of these issues could quite easily have their own space for discussion.

 

I don't think Obama will go down as a great President though, just to bring it back to the election and the presidency. He will probably go down as a President who did an alright job with a very weakened economy, but he'll also be remembered for the near total paralysis of Congress under his leadership. Maybe he'll be more assertive now he has no re-election to think about, it'll be interesting to see how that fact changes the dynamics of this stand-off.

From a shear economic numbers perspective, his first term was a failure. For every person that found a job, 75 people went on food stamps.

You can argue about the situation he inherited all day long, but people at this point weren't making excuses for Reagan.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Donnie:http://www.economics...l-monopoly.htmlAlso, how do we deal with climate change and other such tragedies of the commons or prisonner's dilemmas without top-down rules?
Tragedy of the commons solutions:Roads are a good example of tragedy of the common. Traffic and wear and tear sucks. A toll road solves that, if there is too much traffic raise the toll, if the fee is too high they lose money. Farmers feeding animals is another example. If you have a common field and allow all the farmers to let their cattle eat the grass each wants to feed their cattle as much as possible so the other guys dont take it all. Easy solution is for someone to own the field and charge based on how much grass was eaten. Solves that problem and improves the health of the field.Pollution is another example. Pollution in the early industrial revolution was treated as a property rights violation until the factory owners payed off the courts or lawmakers to remove those laws. Go back to those standards and thats yet another one solves on a free market (in this case a free market of law).

 

I admire your guy's patience. I cannot take someone who says nuclear weapons are a first defense strategy seriously.

Im sorry an "I was wrong" wont suffice

 

I made that number up that with no artificial barriers you should be able to get full coverage on health care for 1 days wage. Doctors cost, medical machinery costs which are bid up by insurance cartel/medicare much like college tuitions are bid up by subsidies to student loans, patent trolls, artificial profit margins. With the average cost of insurance per year today is $5k+ (i dont remember the national average cost). I make the guess that it would be as low as $64 a year, but certainly lower then the cartel rates we have now and much more accessible then Obamacare.

1 days wage buys 1 year's care in 1920. The nature of care is different. When people got cancer in 1920, they died. When people get cancer today, they stay in the hospital for a month. When people broke their arm in 1920, they'd either set it or amputate it. When people break their arm today, they x-ray it, figure out if they need surgery (set it with pins), then go through physical therapy.

 

Your model is flawed even if you make grand (wrong) assumptions. Like everyone in America gets to visit a doctor for 1 hour a year (which is completely wrong), and that there are no such things as nurses, administration fees, etc. Oh, and people don't need to buy medication.

 

So with those assumptions, health care costs X amount per year means that doctors get paid X amount per hour. Guess what? Even if X was $64, that isn't enough for a doctor!

If you equated a doctor with an engineer (which requires less schooling), the engineer is already making more than $64 / hour! Engineers aren't regulated by the government like you're claiming doctors are, so where's the incentive? That means that X needs to be much higher (especially considering differences between the two professions, what it takes to be a doctor).

 

a lot of the medical equiptment isn't as expensive as you think. Its price is shifted up because of subsidies. Just like college tuitions.

 

Even if that $ amount is wrong, it would be significantly less on a market then it currently is.

 

As far as incentives go, people go to school get $100k student loan debts to be a teacher.

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Can you copy and paste that to the new thread? On my phone atm.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Have you honestly not felt the recent tensions between the United States and Israel? Or how Obama is blowing off Netanyahu as "noise"?

 

I would think it is rather messed up that America is giving foreign aid to Muslim countries that are so anti-Americans, that protests with killing and flag burning is the norm whenever they find something to offend them. Or maybe it's the fact that they let US Embassies get attacked (Hint: Egypt). The United States needs to cut off all foreign aid to those countries. There is no negotiating or building friendly relations with those people.

Netanyahu is calling for a strike on Iran, Obama wants to avoid another costly war. I'd call him "noise", too, if I were him. Netanyahu's beliefs, while I find them to have certain merit, border fanaticism and desperation. Netanyahu is lucky he is still able to talk to the US after Pollard's conviction.

 

As for the extremists burning and spitting on the American flag: why widen the gap with them? Why cut off the entire country because of a few bad apples? Why create enemies?

 

There is no way to avoid an eventual war with Iran.

 

The US isn't creating enemies. The enemies are already there.

All I can really say to this is that I agree with Jonanananas, obfuscator, and ItsASpork. War is evitable (there's a word we should use more often) and should not be discussed as a valid course of action unless there is no other option left. We have avoided enough wars in the past, and standoffs have ended many times before (The Cuban Missile Crisis comes to mind) with little to no bloodshed.

 

Come to think of it, the Cuban Missile Crisis did happen because a certain country decided they didn't like their neighbour's leader... guess what that country pulled out of their buddy's pocket?

 

Also, I love it how this thead exploded in the past day :P . Beats the actual political talk leading up to the election.

22031_s.gif

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If you really study the cold war, there was more than one case where people actually did give the order to launch nuclear ordanence, or authorized other people to do so.

 

There was an american spy plane that got lost over Russia, and was escorted back by american fighters armed with nuclear missiles who had full authorization to use them at their discretion. Their was a Russian submarine that almost launched nuclear missiles from near Cuba (something about the american blockade finding them I think), but they required a unanimous decision from the top 3 officers, and the second in command refused.

 

If you subscribe to the theory where timelines split off at every deicsion, covering each possibility, than I suspect that in most timelines, the Cold War probably did become world war 3. We are unbelieveably lucky that the right things happened, and the right people made the right calls, because nuclear war almost happened oh so many times.

 

Oh, and that one time where a simulated Russian attack was mistaken for an actual Russian nuclear first strike, and for some reason someone delayed a very real retaliatory strike long enough to find out that it was a simulation, and not an actual strike. I expect everyone needed a fresh pair of pants that day.

 

 

So yes, it's a very large deterent, but all you need is the right mistake, or circumstance, to cause enough panic for someone to hit the launch button and it's all over.

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We need to remove the human element. We need the WOPR.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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That cartoon is the first image that comes up in a search for "obamacare cartoon" on Google. Congratulations on adding to the discussion.

phpFffu7GPM.jpg
 

"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."

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He didn't even win Florida, let alone Ohio. Incredible. I said before in this thread that Romney's campaign was possibly the worst I've ever seen, from cradle to finish, and having looked at the results, I stick by that. The Republicans need to take a long, hard look at themselves before the next election. Is the Tea Party in control of this ship or not? They seem to have a lot of influence in candidate selection and policy, but in reality, they occupy relatively few seats. Too many times, there's been mixed messages and internal strife coming out of that party.

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tea party is not significantly different then most republicans. They may be screaming anti-spending but have no plans to actually do anything but cut perceived increases on spending like Romney did.

 

tea party republicans tend to support all the bullshit that wont succeed in a general election. Such as anti-abortion and gay marriage.

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Partisanship isn't smart either. Not all Republicans are reactionary idiots: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/walter-olson/maryland-gay-marriage_b_2094675.html

 

On this whole fiscal cliff problem:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.ca/2012/11/how-to-raise-tax-revenue-from-rich.html?m=1

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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That cartoon is the first image that comes up in a search for "obamacare cartoon" on Google. Congratulations on adding to the discussion.

 

Discussion? I thought this thread had become just a circle jerk for BHO.

 

A remarkable number of states are not going to participate in the Medicaid expansion or are leaning towards not participating.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/medicaid-expansion_n_2103384.html?ref=topbar

 

But at least a half-dozen governors say they simply won't go along with the law. When the Supreme Court upheld Obamacare in June, justices ruled states could opt out of the Medicaid expansion. The decision threatens to leave 3 million of the poorest Americans without health coverage, the Congressional Budget Office predicts.

 

Thats right... the same Supreme Court ruling that refused to overturn Obamacare also allows states to opt out of the Medicaid expansion.

 

Is it any wonder Obamacare is being called the mother of all unfunded mandates...?

 

http://tncampaignforliberty.org/wordpress/2012/10/tn-state-senators-vow-to-fight-obamacare-medicaid-expansion/

 

The United States Supreme Court ruled in June that Congress can deny the expansion funds but not all Medicaid funds. Now states have an option whether or not to expand their Medicaid programs.

 

Under the Act, Congress promised to pay 100% of the Medicaid expansion funds in the first few years but only 90% of the funds in future years. Given the $16 trillion debt owed by the federal government, it is doubtful that the federal government will fulfill even its 90% promise in future years.

 

"Tennessee taxpayers simply cannot afford the long-term financial burden of expanding our Medicaid rolls, said Durham. "This is one of those times in which legislators must exercise fiscal responsibility and tell the federal government, Thanks, but no thanks."

 

A similar sentiment was stated in July by Senator Lamar Alexander: "If I were governor of Tennessee, I would not expand Medicaid as the program is currently run." Former Democratic Governor Phil Bredesen described ObamaCare as "the mother of all unfunded mandates" and said it would cost Tennessee taxpayers over $1 billion in the next five years.

 

Not all Democrats are from that godawful Northeastern lineage. There are still a few Blue Dogs around.

 

I am thankful I live in one of those Red States that actually voted for fiscal responsibility this past week.

PvP is not for me

In the 3rd Year of the Boycott
Real-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of Dollars
Real-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours

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The fact that you posted a clearly partisan political cartoon instead of a well-formulated argument just to troll the thread was my point.

 

States should be able to opt out of anything. You won't hear any argument against that from me.

phpFffu7GPM.jpg
 

"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."

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That cartoon is the first image that comes up in a search for "obamacare cartoon" on Google. Congratulations on adding to the discussion.

 

Discussion? I thought this thread had become just a circle jerk for BHO.

 

A remarkable number of states are not going to participate in the Medicaid expansion or are leaning towards not participating.

 

http://www.huffingto...html?ref=topbar

 

But at least a half-dozen governors say they simply won't go along with the law. When the Supreme Court upheld Obamacare in June, justices ruled states could opt out of the Medicaid expansion. The decision threatens to leave 3 million of the poorest Americans without health coverage, the Congressional Budget Office predicts.

 

That's right... the same Supreme Court ruling that refused to overturn Obamacare also allows states to opt out of the Medicaid expansion.

 

Is it any wonder Obamacare is being called the "mother of all unfunded mandates"...?

 

http://tncampaignfor...caid-expansion/

 

The United States Supreme Court ruled in June that Congress can deny the expansion funds but not all Medicaid funds. Now states have an option whether or not to expand their Medicaid programs.

 

Under the Act, Congress promised to pay 100% of the Medicaid expansion funds in the first few years but only 90% of the funds in future years. Given the $16 trillion debt owed by the federal government, it is doubtful that the federal government will fulfill even its 90% promise in future years.

 

"Tennessee taxpayers simply cannot afford the long-term financial burden of expanding our Medicaid rolls," said Durham. "This is one of those times in which legislators must exercise fiscal responsibility and tell the federal government, 'Thanks, but no thanks.'"

 

A similar sentiment was stated in July by Senator Lamar Alexander: "If I were governor of Tennessee, I would not expand Medicaid as the program is currently run." Former Democratic Governor Phil Bredesen described ObamaCare as "the mother of all unfunded mandates" and said it would cost Tennessee taxpayers over $1 billion in the next five years.

 

Not all Democrats are from that godawful Northeastern lineage. There are still a few Blue Dogs around.

 

I am thankful I live in one of those Red States that actually voted for fiscal responsibility this past week.

 

I've met Lamar Alexander before since I am from Tennessee.

 

I'm just looking forward to the 2016 elections now.

sig2-3.jpg

 

Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy.

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Not all areas of the UK have the same access to NHS treatment either. The system isn't funded by local authority, but budgets are organised locally. I'm reasonably sure every country with a health service allows for local variations. You're not arguing against anything new here when you say the Supreme Court judged that states can opt out.

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I guess there are 20 states that have petitions to secede from the US. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't got as much media attention (I could only find a legit article on BBC News) as I would think it should, even though it's still a very minor minority of citizens that have signed the petitions but still.

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Probably because it's barely a news story. Texas is the biggest petition right now; it has just over 25,000 signatures in an overwhelmingly Republican state where nine million votes were cast during the 2008 Presidential election. So... 0.27%, or about one in four hundred, of a very favourable electorate bothered to sign just how much they hate Obama?

 

Interestingly, they're citing airport checks as the abuse of Americans' rights rather than any specific issue that Romney was campaigning on.

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If I were American I'd probably sign one of those just for fun. I'm curious as to when/if they'll get a response. On another note, looks like the Democrats will end up with 201 house seats, for a net gain of eight. Probably the best they'll do this decade with all the gerrymandering in states like Pennsylvania and Ohio.

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Redistricting kept a lot of congressional Republicans in office this election. Michelle Bachmann being one of them.

phpFffu7GPM.jpg
 

"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."

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On that topic:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/11/congressional-representation-0?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/callvotersuppression

I'm unsure I understand the part about reform not being desirable, and I don't see why Democrats would not decide to gerrymander to their advantage in 2020.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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